newbie theif questions

[Order]

why go to 120 stealth? weapon skill or wrestling? why poisoning with no weapon skill or magery? and why have alchemy on a theif?
thanks all for taking the time

 

[Touzoko]

why should a "thief" do these things? Only if it matches your template and play style. 120 stealth- on a prodo shard with passive reveal, might come in handy. Wrestling or weapon skill? To defend yourself and increase chances of getting away, shadow strike, stun punch, dismount, disarm, poison. Magery? Same, plus extra invis, gate, summons, mage weapons. Alchemy? Attack and defense, healing.

 

[Order]

whats a prodo shard? how do you use alchemy for defense and offense? should you have parry for extra defense?

 

[Order]

pretty much i want to just sneak up to the target snoop his pouch and steal ps or arti and run like hell with minimal risk of death. so i was thinking high defense skills and hpr but want sure about how high my stealth needed to be? if i could carry a shield? if having poisoning would help drive attackers away? anything i missed?
thanks

 

[Touzoko]

when you steal, your hands must be empty. That is why taming and wrestling are so handy. You can also have a weapon skill, and simply re-equip your weapon after your steal. Fencing comes to mind, since a dagger or spike has poison or shadow strike as an option, without tactics being required. Wrestling has disarm or stun punch as options, again w/o tactics being necessary.
Alchemy has stamina refresh, heal, cure, conflag, invis, gr ex, gr confus potions all to your pleasure. They all come in handy at different times. With an ecru ring, they can also do a good deal of damage.
Spell resist always is handy, and most expect we shan't have it, which surprises them when we do.
You might ask Rico more about running with taming. He has done so with great sucess. I have never had the patience for taming, but others more stalwart than myself have.

Hope this helps. Ask more if it doesn't. We need more thieves, and there are no dumb questions.

 

[Shinobi]

Here's a temp that I'd suggest, it is good offensively and defensively:

Real Skill:
75 Stealing
70 Stealth
90 Snooping
100 Hiding
110 Fencing
100 Ninjitsu
94.9 Tactics
80.1 Poisoning

Boosted Skill:
120 Stealing
100 Stealth
100 Snooping
100 Hiding
110 Fencing
100 Ninjitsu
94.9 Tactics
80.1 Poisoning

Items to boost:
Shadow Dancer Leggings
Burglar's Bandana
+15 Stealing Ring

With this temp, your healing would be from HP Regen. So you will need to find medable armor pieces with HP Regen 2 on all of them. Some artifacts will give you more.

HP Regen Items:
Bracelet of Health - 10
Totem of the Void - 2
Voice of the Fallen King - 3
Crimson Cincture - 2 (I think)
Medable HP Regen 2 gloves, sleeves, and tunic.

That's a possible total of 23 HP Regen.

You should be fine with 100 Stealth. I personally have 120, but it isn't necessary. As long as you have at least 100, you'll be fine.

The 80.1 Poisoning will let you deal Deadly Poison every time, with an 80.1% chance of Lethal Poison. And yes, the .1 is necessary.

Don't worry about a shield. It'll just get in the way, considering you have to drop it to steal, then re-equip it.

This temp is considering that you have a cap of 720 Real Skill. If you don't, then I suggest deducting the amount you don't have from either Fencing, Ninjitsu, or Tactics. Leave Stealing, Snooping, Stealth, Hiding, and Poisoning alone, you can't have any less than that on those 5 skills without regretting it later. Hope this helps you out.

 

[Order]

what skill level do i need to cast wolf form 100%? and how much steal skill do i need to steal 7-9 stone items 100% if there is one? will i get detected alot with only 100 stealth and not 120?

 

[Shinobi]

what skill level do i need to cast wolf form 100%? and how much steal skill do i need to steal 7-9 stone items 100% if there is one? will i get detected alot with only 100 stealth and not 120?

As far as wolf form and ninjitsu goes, I have no clue. 100 is a good, safe amount of ninjitsu to have.

120 Stealing is a MUST. You're going to get pissed when you come across a high stone item and you fail at stealing it. Imagine having Inquisistor's Resolutions in front of you uninsured. That's 10 stones. I've stolen 3 pairs, almost 4, but I failed on the 4th pair, and I'm 120. Just trust me on this, 120 Stealing, no less.

120 Stealth is basically infinite stealthing. You can walk forever, and it will recast itself before you can run out of steps. I like to think that I reveal less with 120 Stealth in comparison with someone with only 100, but it's a pretty insignificant difference. I still get revealed a lot with passive detect, but if a mage is trying to cast reveal on me, it just won't happen. If you are that worried about it, and you are going off the template I gave you above, try dropping ninjitsu/fencing/tactics to:

100 Fencing
95 Ninjitsu
89.9 Tactics

Now you will be able to do 90 Real Stealth, which will be 120 Boosted Stealth. So your new temp would be:

120 Stealing
100 Snooping
100 Hiding
120 Stealth
100 Fencing
95 Ninjitsu
89.9 Tactics
80.1 Poisoning

Hope that helps.

 

[Order]

is the poisoning on your char for infectious strike or surikens?
if i use all medable armor can is 80 stealth enough?

 

[Shinobi]

is the poisoning on your char for infectious strike or surikens?

Both. Everything poison related goes off of your poison skill. If you have a shuriken with deadly poison applied to it, but you have 0 poisoning skill, you won't inflict deadly poison. If you manage to inflict the poison, it will only do lesser poison.

In order to inflict the form of poison you have on your weapon/shuriken, you need to have the right amount of skill in Poisoning. So, you may be throwing deadly poison shurikens, but without enough poison skill, it's not as strong as it should be. 80.1 is the perfect amount, you should not have higher or less.

 

[Touzoko]

you dont need poison skill for shuriken or darts. They will work w/o it. You can also poison things with a dagger, say, w/o poison skill, but I have been told that you will get a lower level of poison. This is something I have not experimented with.

 

[Quenchant]

Everything poison related goes off of your poison skill. If you have a shuriken with deadly poison applied to it, but you have 0 poisoning skill, you won't inflict deadly poison. If you manage to inflict the poison, it will only do lesser poison.

The above statement is incorrect, at least on production shards. If the Shuriken or Dart has deadly poison on it, it will inflict deadly poison. You can tell what level you have inflicted by reading the messages you get in game or looking at the buff icon when you are poisoned.

Now, if you have a poisoned blade, that does go off your poisoning skill. You can have a deadly poisoned blade but if you only have the JoAT skill of 20, you will only inflict Lvl 2 - Poison. You would also have a 20% chance it would bump to Lvl 3 - Greater Poison.

The level of poison you inflict is based on the this:
With Poisoning skill 0.0 - 19.9 you can inflict Level 1 (% chance of level 2)
With Poisoning skill 20.0 - 39.9 you can inflict level 2 (% chance of level 3)
With Poisoning skill 40.0 - 59.9 you can inflict level 3 (% chance of level 4)
With Poisoning skill 60.0 - 100.0 you can inflict level 4 (% chance of level 5)

80.1 is the perfect amount, you should not have higher or less.

I also disagree with this statement, in the case that you are carrying a fairly high level of magery. For example, if you had 110 magery. I would suggest 90 poisoning.

Mages operate on the formula - ((Magery + Poisoning) / 2)
- After calculating your result, the level of poison you can expect is listed below:
-- < 65.1 : Level 1 poison
-- 65.1 to 85 : Level 2 poison
-- 85.1 to 99.9 : Level 3 poison
-- 100 and higher : Level 4 poisoning

So, if I had 110 magery I would invest the extra 9.9 skill points to get to 90 poisoning and ensure that my poison spell and fields were at Lvl 4 - Deadly poisoning instead of stopping at 80.1, where the poison spells would stop at Lvl 3 - Greater Poison.

Q

 

[Shinobi]

My bad, I didn't realize that the higher your magery is over 100, the more poison you need. Also, I don't really use darts or shurikens, so I just assumed they were the same rules...oops, lol.

 

[RichDC]

to 100%cast wolf you need around 120. Llama/ostard is 110ish.

Your template is a thug thief, not bad, but the style you suggested that wouldnt be the template i would run. That template is more...steal first, kill after.

How, for example, do you plan on healing on the run?

Wihtout EP a heal pot is going to heal aroun 15-20ish hp every 7secs?

That is no where near enough to be able to survive a mage/moving shot archer. Even with 19hpr!

 

[Robthemilt]

Sarme's Current Template.

120 Stealing
119 stealth (im stealing it now)
100 hiding
100 snooping
105.9 ninja (im stealing it now)
65 chiv
100 detect (im stealing it now too)
and something in the neighborhood of 80 tracking when its finished.

I wear a full seventies suit that i'll be revising for some DCI and Stam regen.
I wear +skill jewelry with 1/2 combined casting. Along with the Burgs bandana and shadow dancers.
currently I am able to PVP steal, PVM steal, and pick stuff up off the floors in doom and tok.

I like using chiv to invis before showing up at my destination. I realize most players can hear me come in but it lets me see what im getting into, rather than come in and being auto agro'd. Chiv has also allowed me to lose my arcane clothing.

Basically because I use ninja to get into animal form a split second after revealing, no one gets a clean shot on me. Im typically gone before mages get to cast, Dexxers have to react, and Archers ... well my only problem. This template is perfect for harrassing my targets as well as loading myself up. MOST of the time i dont even carry smokebombs, though they have helped me many times.

Using this template I have effectively defended a barracoon from a tamer mage and an archer by myself.

Stealth up
Snoop
Target item
Steal item
Animal form
Laugh
GO
Laugh some more
Turn corner
Hide
Go back to flaunt

 

[Shinobi]

to 100%cast wolf you need around 120. Llama/ostard is 110ish.

Your template is a thug thief, not bad, but the style you suggested that wouldnt be the template i would run. That template is more...steal first, kill after.

How, for example, do you plan on healing on the run?

Wihtout EP a heal pot is going to heal aroun 15-20ish hp every 7secs?

That is no where near enough to be able to survive a mage/moving shot archer. Even with 19hpr!

The temp I suggested isn't for PvPing. It is a thief temp with decent offensive power.

On Shinobi, I have hardly any resists, like 0 HPR, and the only way I can heal is if I decide to have my cu sidhe follow me around. I die in 3 hits, if even, from a decent PvPer. The trick is to make the steal, and before they know what hit them, you're gone.

The reason for the HPR is so you can take a few hits, and heal up while hidden or while on the run. If I can escape 90% of the time as a 2-3 hit kill, then someone with over 20 HPR can easily do it.

The fencing is mainly for shadow strike and poison. I don't expect him to stand there and take on a bad ass dexer 1 on 1. He really needs to decide if he wants to be a thief with a few PvP skills, or a PvPer with the ability to steal.

 

[RichDC]

I agree with you, but i would always go for wrestle over any other melee skill.

For many reasons,

1)more finger fumbling macro hitting trying to re-equip weapon after steal and getting that wait to perform action message!

2)can be disarmed leaving you with 0 weapon skill = 0 defense

3)requires an additional 90points in tactics(unless just using poison and shadow)

4)weapons are expensive!

My thief has wrestle and alchemy...for exactly the reasons you said, i dont want to hang around and toe-toe anyone...i want to be gone!!

Alchemy helps in a big way, occasionaly i get parad, so i throw a 11per second conflag around me(usually mage para spams dexxer hits) use a smoke bomb and shadow jump.

Plus there is an extra 50hp from pot and wolf form(i end up with around 170hp!) and heals heal round 40, i also have high hpr...around 15

Plus if i get lucky(occasionaly do) and find an opposing factioner Afk i can kill them in usually 3-5pots.

 

[Touzoko]

my thief carries a blessed "Someones' dagger".

 

[Viper09]

Here's my favorite template:

100 stealing (120 with shadow leggings)
100 snooping
100 hiding
80 stealth (100 with shadow leggings)
100 wrestling (for disarm and stun)
70-75 ninja (can be boosted with jewelry, good for animal form and shadow jump)
40-50 chivalry ( for healing, recall spell, cure. Can be boosted with jewelry)
100 resist or 100 detect

Granted this is a non-combat template, but it is really awesome
The chivalry, as mentioned, helps for healing, recall, and cure. I found the resist very helpful for avoiding the para spells and from time-to-time poison. Later I dropped it for detect hidden which is very fun Given the formula for tracking, with just gm detect and JOT, you can still track players fairly well, just not monsters. I found myself tracking even gm stealthers with some difficulty.

 

[RichDC]

I have issues with anyone putting chiv and magery on a thief template. A true thief that is.
(siege exception)

You cant cast in animal form!

Thats about it.

 

[Viper09]

I have issues with anyone putting chiv and magery on a thief template. A true thief that is.
(siege exception)

You cant cast in animal form!

Thats about it.

A good point about not being able to cast in animal form. However the way I see it, chivalry is the cheapest (skillwise) to be able to cast heal, cure and be able to recall all together effectively. (well, maybe not recall at 100%) And all this with only around 55-60 Chivalry alone. For healing you need both healing and anatomy.