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New Taming Publish Has Old Tamer Very Freaked Out

Fridgster

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:facepalm:

I'm ashamed to have read that comparison. Stable slots being limited to less than thirty doesn't rival slavery and oppression.

People who have to refer to such real historical struggles and oppression on behalf of asking for some more video game items really must be flailing for a good reason if that's the best they can do. Reconsider the term "flawed logic".
While the comparison is certainly a bit overboard (being nice), the concept is still accurate. Just because something is doesn't make something right. Perhaps when stable slots were limited there was good reason. It doesn't mean that reason still exists today. One could certainly argue that recent and near future updates dictate that the stable slots should be increased. More likely than not dramatically increased.
 

Lord Frodo

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It's down to server space. All that info has to be stored somewhere, 125x pets all with varying caps/stats/attributes, is a lot to store and they're not realistically going to run more servers (cost themselves more money) just for this.
Another lame excuse, did you say anything when they increased the max storage of a Castle,of course you did not. There is a HUGE difference between a SERVER and increasing the storage for that server. Isn't it funny that you bring up what a PET may have Stats/Skills/Attributes but when is the last time you looked into all those chests full of Armor/Weps or anything else that some how UO manages to store all those items but for some reason you think they can not store 125 PETS, now that is funny.
 
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Merlin

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Whose being haughty now {Sigh} ... fine for those more sensitive among us, I will relate my argument directly to the game:

Once again, failed logic....If everyone trumpeted the phrase, "Except that it has worked fine for years as is." nothing would change anywhere. We would be content with one land mass, keys to lock our houses, no dreads or greater dragons, no gargs (Although this might be proof your phrasing is correct), no spell weaving, no elves, no expanded stable slots at all, no doom, no imbuing (Again, you might be right here), the list is endless. Therefore simply saying, "Except that it has worked fine for years as is." as though it is some sort of end all defense to change is ludicrous. I think everything should constantly be reviewed and debated for the betterment of the game.
The only person being haughty was the one who made the unwarranted comparison of being against a video game change to being a slave oppressor.

I wasn't disputing that there should never be any changes ever. I am disputing the move from 20-something slots to 100+ slots. Stable slots, for all intensive purposes, have been working fine for years. Sure people want more, but that's always the case with EVERYTHING in UO.. and life. Has the stable slot situation been game breaking? No - it hasn't. I've said all along a reasonable increase is warranted - but not a 5x increase that would give each account 650+ slots.

Semantics aside - I stand by my position: an increase to 100+ slots "just because" is absurd.
 

Capt. Lucky

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Well I could see a reasonable argument for a couple more slots. Certainly can't sell us a bunch of new mounts with no place to put them. So I'd say each new mount purchased should come with at least one new stable storage upgrade.
 

Uriah Heep

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An increase to 100 slots for my tailor, or my mage, is absurd.

For a fully trained functional tamer, makes sense...Look at all the critters out there nowdays!
And I can see a tamer, with the new training they have, training up the same type animal and having 4-5 of them, with different skillsets and damage outputs.
 

Longtooths

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The only person being haughty was the one who made the unwarranted comparison of being against a video game change to being a slave oppressor.

I wasn't disputing that there should never be any changes ever. I am disputing the move from 20-something slots to 100+ slots. Stable slots, for all intensive purposes, have been working fine for years. Sure people want more, but that's always the case with EVERYTHING in UO.. and life. Has the stable slot situation been game breaking? No - it hasn't. I've said all along a reasonable increase is warranted - but not a 5x increase that would give each account 650+ slots.

Semantics aside - I stand by my position: an increase to 100+ slots "just because" is absurd.

You are capitulating. What you are saying now, "I've said all along a reasonable increase is warranted" is much different than, ""Except that it has worked fine for years as is."

But I digress, I think an increase has been warranted for quite some time. As to how many or if they are to be paid for...I'll take either. I think the paying for the expansion would be smart of Broadsword. Anything to bring in revenue and keep this game going I say.
 

Pawain

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I like UO being hard and being a game about making a lot of tough choices
Problen solved. Stable slots count toward bank slots. You can make the tough choice to have tokens and gifts or pets.

Don'tell anyone. I already have 30 pets beyond my capacity, and the server didn't break.
 

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Merlin

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You are capitulating. What you are saying now, "I've said all along a reasonable increase is warranted" is much different than, ""Except that it has worked fine for years as is."

But I digress, I think an increase has been warranted for quite some time. As to how many or if they are to be paid for...I'll take either. I think the paying for the expansion would be smart of Broadsword. Anything to bring in revenue and keep this game going I say.
Capitulating? I'm not sure if you've read the entire thread, as you seem to be focused on semantics, yet have ended up right where I suggested all along: paying for it in the form of an expansion.

A buck per slot doesn't seem unreasonable, with some sort of discount for larger increments. Any +revenue ideas are good for the game.

Well I could see a reasonable argument for a couple more slots. Certainly can't sell us a bunch of new mounts with no place to put them. So I'd say each new mount purchased should come with at least one new stable storage upgrade.
And this idea - there should be a +1 slot attached for each vanity pet bought.
 

Keith of Sonoma

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Capitulating? I'm not sure if you've read the entire thread, as you seem to be focused on semantics, yet have ended up right where I suggested all along: paying for it in the form of an expansion.

A buck per slot doesn't seem unreasonable, with some sort of discount for larger increments. Any +revenue ideas are good for the game.



And this idea - there should be a +1 slot attached for each vanity pet bought.
A buck apiece, or say, 12 for $10 works for me just fine. :)
 

Nexus

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Any +revenue ideas are good for the game.
That's not true not by a long shot. Putting too much behind a pay wall is a good way to kill a good game. I've seen it happen more than once.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
 

Uriah Heep

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That's not true not by a long shot. Putting too much behind a pay wall is a good way to kill a good game. I've seen it happen more than once.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
Yeah, they've about milked me for all they're getting
It's already pay to play-in case no one noticed
 

Thrakkar

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It's down to server space. All that info has to be stored somewhere, 125x pets all with varying caps/stats/attributes, is a lot to store and they're not realistically going to run more servers (cost themselves more money) just for this.
Dude, we have 2017! Stuff isn't stored on a 3½ floppy anymore.

Let's calculate the size of a pet in bytes. If you're not familiar with it 1 byte = 8 bits = 0-255, thus, in two bytes you can store a value up to 65535. Because we are wasteful and don't count beans, we just round up to a full byte. Should you find any mistakes, youc an keep them :p Here we go:
Hits/Stam/Mana: Hits are capped at 1000, 2 bytes here. 4 in total because of current value & max value. So 12 for all 3.
Str/Dex/Int: because we're lazy 2 bytes each = 6 bytes.
Loyality rating: 1
HPR/SR/MR: 1 each = 3
Resists: 1 each = 5
Damage: 1 for each type (5), min, max = 7
Skills: 2 bytes each, a third if it can be overcapped with a PS for storing the cap: 21x3 = 63
Pref. food: 1
Pack inst.: 1
special abilities: will most probably be a bitmask, let's say 8 because we're super generous
Barding diff & slots are calculated and don't have to be stored.
Pet type: 2 bytes
Name: since it is unicode it'll need 2 bytes per char, let's be generous again can cap it at a max length of 40 chars = 80 bytes
Unique id so it can be accessed: we definitely won't need more than int64 = 8 bytes

That sums up to: 195 bytes!

So if a character would have 125 stable slots, that char would need 24375 bytes or 23.8 kB. Big deal.

Just for fun: UO population peaked at 300k players. We have 28 shards including TC. 7 chars per shard on a fully upgraded account, that's 1433250000000 bytes or 1.3 TB. Now go to amazon.com for a price check of a 2 TB HDD. Rented space in a data center costs even less... besides all 28 shards aren't in the same datacenter as well.

On a side note: Also the amount of servers isn't tied to storage space.
 

cazador

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Dude, we have 2017! Stuff isn't stored on a 3½ floppy anymore.

Let's calculate the size of a pet in bytes. If you're not familiar with it 1 byte = 8 bits = 0-255, thus, in two bytes you can store a value up to 65535. Because we are wasteful and don't count beans, we just round up to a full byte. Should you find any mistakes, youc an keep them :p Here we go:
Hits/Stam/Mana: Hits are capped at 1000, 2 bytes here. 4 in total because of current value & max value. So 12 for all 3.
Str/Dex/Int: because we're lazy 2 bytes each = 6 bytes.
Loyality rating: 1
HPR/SR/MR: 1 each = 3
Resists: 1 each = 5
Damage: 1 for each type (5), min, max = 7
Skills: 2 bytes each, a third if it can be overcapped with a PS for storing the cap: 21x3 = 63
Pref. food: 1
Pack inst.: 1
special abilities: will most probably be a bitmask, let's say 8 because we're super generous
Barding diff & slots are calculated and don't have to be stored.
Pet type: 2 bytes
Name: since it is unicode it'll need 2 bytes per char, let's be generous again can cap it at a max length of 40 chars = 80 bytes
Unique id so it can be accessed: we definitely won't need more than int64 = 8 bytes

That sums up to: 195 bytes!

So if a character would have 125 stable slots, that char would need 24375 bytes or 23.8 kB. Big deal.

Just for fun: UO population peaked at 300k players. We have 28 shards including TC. 7 chars per shard on a fully upgraded account, that's 1433250000000 bytes or 1.3 TB. Now go to amazon.com for a price check of a 2 TB HDD. Rented space in a data center costs even less... besides all 28 shards aren't in the same datacenter as well.

On a side note: Also the amount of servers isn't tied to storage space.
You've forgot the millions of items per each shard, account information, client side scripts, or any other miscellaneous information stored (warehouses Xfer etc etc) but the point is semi made. I think they don't give unlimited X and Y to sell more accounts. Reasoning Mesanna said no to any more bank upgrades, house upgrades or character upgrades


....
 

Longtooths

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You've forgot the millions of items per each shard, account information, client side scripts, or any other miscellaneous information stored (warehouses Xfer etc etc) but the point is semi made. I think they don't give unlimited X and Y to sell more accounts. Reasoning Mesanna said no to any more bank upgrades, house upgrades or character upgrades


....
I believe his intention was to only point out the increased storage for the increase in stable slots only.
 

Aibal

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Merlin, just a thought to consider. I do see your comment about excessive stable slot for each character. Let me "try" to use a different tact. You've mentioned several times the game "evolves" and we need to change. Correct? So for most templates....lets use dexxers....they have multiple weapons, correct? What if you ran, say, an archer/fencer base template. And on that character you carried probably 5-7 bows and about the same number of fencing weaps. If game dynamics change, do your put all those sweet weapons in a pack for your imbuer to unravel? No...you stick them in a chest for later use. I do see your point on volume of pets, but how is that different than a character that has morphed 5 times in 3 years so they have 10's or 100's of weapons in storage??

The difference for many tamers who love their templates is....we don't change. We chug along. I'm fine with stable limits (to a point), but in reference to one of your earlier posts, WHY do I now have to release pets to make room for more of the "latest and greatest"??? Please answer this question FIRST. For hardcore tamers, it's not just about the pet, it's about the rarity and the time spent grinding it out to find such high quality pets. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm not about it on all of my tamers. But I have a Platinum tamer on each of my accounts on one shard...they hold pets that I have spent 1000's of hours trying to obtain....no that is NOT an exaggeration. Very highly rated pets of all types. Just because it's not a GDrag or Dread doesn't make it less valuable to me. I have a chicken "Chick Norris" that I fought for years at Chicken Fight Club on Great Lakes. Very highly rated chicken...I've watched him (with my help) kick the crap out of Ogre Lords in the old Despise. Now I have to release him to make room in the new system??? Uh...NO.

There is no reason that a fully skilled tamer should NOT be allowed maximum stable spots. Just like now, base it on taming/lore/vet plus primers to allocate space. Work down from a 120/120/120 just as they do now. But forcing me to release highly rated, high value pets to me just to get in on the latest and greatest is BS. If that's the case, then smelt all weapons not carried by a dexxer, limit casters to a few books in their backpack, etc.
 
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Uvtha

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Just got a giggle, like the "cloud" is some mythical free storage space that costs nothing lol. I doubt UO gets free storage space where ever it is. It might be cheaper but I doubt it's free and they wouldn't be doing it at all unless they were trying to shave every penny off the monthly bills they could. I collect rares so I'd like unlimited house storage to keep a bunch of junk I don't really need or even want. It hurts my play style! I'm frustrated! :p
Obviously it's not free, but the notion that upping people's stable slots would have a substantive impact on cost is very, very, very doubtful... it's not much data, and the majority of people will not max out those slots on even one character. I have a feeling even if everyone did it wouldn't make much difference.
 

Uvtha

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I like UO being hard and being a game about making a lot of tough choices... it goes with your skill templates, gear, what you have in your house, what you spend your gold on... just about every aspect of the game. The same goes with deciding what to keep in your stables.

You're not entitled to 125 slots just because you want it.
1) Why? Explain why one class (and yes, no other class has its choices of methods limited to the degree tamers do) having its options limited to 24 at most, is a good choice. My real confusion here, is that you have said that you don't mind an increase of 10 or 20 but giving us 80 more would be out of the question. Why are you drawing the line there, what are your reasons, and how does that impact the gaming experience compared to say 100 slots? Have you actually thought about it?

Do you think we should make things harder for other skills? Would you support example limiting spellbooks 1/10th of total spells? Would you suggest limiting players from carrying more than one weapon? Should we get rid of stables completely, bring it back down to 5 pets max? If not? Why not? Hard choices are good on their own merit, or does the situation and it's impact on the players dictate what and how hard the choices should be?

I don't think UO is a game about making "hard choices". Items last essentially forever, you don't lose them when you die, you can store up to like 3k items, you can carry 50 weapons if we want, you can swap out suits mid combat, you can use any weapons with any skills, you can have every spell in your spellbook, you can tailor items to your exact specifications, you can store skills on stones, on and on and on... I don't see the hard choices here. Meanwhile tamers are limited to... 24 pets. I don't think anyone would want any of these situations made any harder, perhaps not even you.

2) I was wondering when someone would throw out the "entitled" buzz word. :/ Did I ever say I "deserve" or am "owed" or anything along those lines? I did not. Expressing a desire, and arguing for it's benefits is not behaving entitled. You do the exact same thing with things you want. Are you "entitled" to the game being altered or not altered the way you like it? I somehow doubt that's how you'd frame it from your perspective.

All I ever said was that I don't like limited slots, I don't understand why they are limited, I don't see the value of them being limited, and that stable slots has zero impact on gameplay. None of which is any kind of example of acting as if I were entitled to anything. I am simply arguing my point of view, just as you argue yours.

Yes it has.
In your opinion. It's not yes or no. Others disagree.

There has to be a reason TO change it from the way it is now.

All I see at the moment is lame comparisons to bank boxes... and the demand that you want it and should have it because you say so.

I haven't seen a good reason explained from you either.
1) The reason has been stated dozens of times. Pets are added regularly, many of them are added in varieties to encourage collecting, there are hundreds of tamable creatures, we have a new system coming that will encourage taming and using more pets, and the fact that stable slots have no impact on gameplay. They actively encourage collecting of items, and it has stretched out into pets, and while you can collect thousands of items, you can't even collect 50 pets. It's pretty easy to see why people would be frustrated. Of course you don't have to agree with that.

2) I think what you mean is when people argue that stables should just be like a container, which was just an idea I think one poster had, it wasn't even an argument for it, just an idea... and again, you are inferring a "demand" seemingly because you disagree with the idea, but no one is demanding anything, we are asking and arguing. It's a completely different situation than what you are framing it as.

3) The pet system is being expanded and is clearly a system that is designed to encourage experimentation, as such people are going to want to go and tame more pets, a stable boost would be a natural addition with such a system alteration. It would make people happy, and would have no negative effect on game play. That is my reason.

Again, the core question here, that has yet to be answered: How would it negatively effect gameplay?
 
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Uvtha

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:facepalm:

I'm ashamed to have read that comparison. Stable slots being limited to less than thirty doesn't rival slavery and oppression.

People who have to refer to such real historical struggles and oppression on behalf of asking for some more video game items really must be flailing for a good reason if that's the best they can do. Reconsider the term "flawed logic".
The RL comparisons absolutly are ridiculous, but you can make in game comparisons that are apt. "This is how things have been and people still play" is not a good argument against trying to improve things. Obviously you don't care about stable slots, but..
 

cazador

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More stable slots would be awesome for everyone especially with the new vanity pets. Non tamers never have any stable slot for anniversary horses, golems, etc etc..I however don't think each stable should have 50+ slots all linked. It would be more fun imo if each stable had like 5. I know it would be more difficult but at least it would be realistic. Like pets in Moonglow can't be claimed in Yew..I don't know harder to code I'm sure, but more immersive. At least imo

+1 to stable upgrades 5 for .99¢


....
 

PlayerSkillFTW

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Let me turn the pets into statuettes or something and store them in my house... let me take up vendor slots for pet storage(however that better be like 25 pets per vendor slot!) I don't care... just give me more stable space.
You know...back when i played on a non official shard for awhile, you were able to turn pets into statues, storing all their stats/resists/skills perfectly, then pop them out whenever you wanted so long as you had the free Control Slots for them. So it's entirely possible. Hell, i even used to store them in a bagball and make jokes about "Gotta Catch Em' All!"
 

Uvtha

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IIRC that is the way it used to be, have to be at the same stable you put him in to get him out, anyone else remember that? or am I wrong?
Correct. They still counted as being in the spawn for that server list too, which is why nightmares were uber rare for like a year, because peeps tamed a bunch them stabled in paupau to turn off the spawn.
 

PlayerSkillFTW

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Correct. They still counted as being in the spawn for that server list too, which is why nightmares were uber rare for like a year, because peeps tamed a bunch them stabled in paupau to turn off the spawn.
Pure Nightmares also stopped spawning for several years. I had tamed a Pure, Long Mane Nightmare in Terathan Keep before they stopped spawning. After they stopped spawning, i would just bank sit on him (was too rare/valuable to take him out hunting in the pre-bonding days), and people would offer me 2-3 Mill for him (which was an obscene amount back then), but i turned them all down. I still have Apollo (the Pure, Long Mane Mare) today, and he looks the exact same as a Dread Warhorse. I'll take him out for a spin along with my old WW Hades (who i tamed within the first couple days of T2A hitting), and people are like "Omg! How are you controlling a Dread Mare and WW at same time! That's 6 control slots!"
 

Uvtha

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Pure Nightmares also stopped spawning for several years. I had tamed a Pure, Long Mane Nightmare in Terathan Keep before they stopped spawning. After they stopped spawning, i would just bank sit on him (was too rare/valuable to take him out hunting in the pre-bonding days), and people would offer me 2-3 Mill for him (which was an obscene amount back then), but i turned them all down. I still have Apollo (the Pure, Long Mane Mare) today, and he looks the exact same as a Dread Warhorse. I'll take him out for a spin along with my old WW Hades (who i tamed within the first couple days of T2A hitting), and people are like "Omg! How are you controlling a Dread Mare and WW at same time! That's 6 control slots!"
I remember I had one of the first tamed nightmares on LS, and I kept it for a long time, and then one day the servers crashed while I was hunting with it, and it poofed. I was super salty. I still miss you Envelope. :(
 

MalagAste

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I remember I had one of the first tamed nightmares on LS, and I kept it for a long time, and then one day the servers crashed while I was hunting with it, and it poofed. I was super salty. I still miss you Envelope. :(
First days of Doom had my beloved WW "Ice" there... we were getting ready to go and some idiot had spawned the bone dragon... well just as the bone dragon died so did my WW... and no ghost... nothing.... just "gone"... I think I cried for the next few hours... wrote an "Ode to Ice"... cried some more... and stopped caring about going to Doom for months.
 
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