New SA Client

[Dermott of LS]

...

That's been a set of comparison shots I've been meaning to make for a long time. This weekend was just the right weekend to get it done

 

[Madrid]

Thanks Dermott for taking the time to make transparent what it is some of us are talking about.

Please don't give up lobbying for KR graphics as an option. If they're made available then I will use the new SA Client and if not I'll stick with UOKR. If UOKR client is taken away then I'll suspend my accounts in perpetuity.

I actually came back after years of playing to check out the UOKR client when it was first released and I loved it. It was like playing a completely new UO. This was after playing on the 2D Client for years. I may be in the minority but I really love the KR Graphics.

I think fans of both clients should have the option to use whatever client or graphics interface they are comfortable with.

Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

...

PLAYERS: Wow, this doesnt look like UO at all, the graphics suck!

But everyone keep posting "The graphics don't matter"!!!

Which is it? Hmm? Beyond the client, that's the argument that's making me want to break out the Clue By Four™ and start swinging.

And Ailish, you know me... you know I've been trying for at the very least the option for KR graphics for those who can run them and do like them. I think that would solve just about everyone's graphical complaints with the SA client.

To me, they stripped out WAAAAY too much of KR in creating SA both graphically and functionally.

SA may be an improvement over 2d, but it's a step backwards from KR as it is and the potential KR and Gamebryo have. And quite frankly for all of the people claiming "it's only Beta"... guess what... it's OPEN beta which is MUCH LATER than you think it is. There may be some polish, but SA is not going to transform into the amazing client it could be from this point forward. What we see, aside from some small tweaks here and there is what we're going to get.

I defended the SA client when it was first being developed, but I also had to keep quiet here about a LOT of things that concerned me about SA... no longer.

I tear apart SA here now not because I don't like UO, but because SA can be SO MUCH BETTER.

The only people who have posted that Graphics do not matter are me and Old man, as far as I know.

With the above statement said, you all need to go around and read my posts, and Old man's posts. They CLEARLY say, graphics do not matter. KR was fine, SA is fine, 2d was fine. What do you not understand? No one who has said "graphics don't matter" have ever said "KR graphics are bad" we said shut up and take it because graphics are not the be all end all of a games success.

I have also pointed out how it is sad that anyone (such as your self, yes this time I am pointing it out) would even care about the graphics, the people who care about graphics care about crappy games. Sorry but all the visually pleasing games are really horrible. There may be some games that are good recently that look good, but they do not look "as good as they can" you know why? It is because the developers decided "hey maybe we should make the game actually good and if it looks good, then hey that's ok too".

The graphics on good games are not "as good as they can be" while they may be "good" they could be far better most of the time, and developers compromise the "best graphics" for "better game play" hell, they would compromise the graphics just for "good game play".

The only people who are comparing graphics is you. Graphics do not matter, I said it about KR I will say it forever. KR was a failure of a client because IT DIDN'T WORK FOR MOST PEOPLE! The sooner you stop trying to skew what I have been saying (and others) the sooner you will realize you are the "group" now, so take your own advice.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

I just can't stop crying...it is so beautiful!

This client is the perfect replacement for the old 2D client.

People who did not like KR love SA...Sure there is much more to do to improve, but I think we are finally to the point where everyone can play.

In my opinion, SA, as it is now is the 2D version of KR.
I would like to see an option for either KR art and affects or the choice for SA 2D/SA 3D.

I think alot of the KR art, in my opinion was better but SA allows so much potential.

Once we get over the hurdles and can put behind us 2D and KR and play SA I look forward to its' possibilities.

I would like to thank the UO Team for its continuing vigillance.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

...

If they change it then it wouldn't be UO anymore,

Graphically speaking that is a load of ROT. You can have a client with updated graphics and still be UO. Hell, you can have a client with legacy graphics with higher resolution and still be UO.

How do the phrases "graphics do not matter" and "If you change it (the graphics), it won't be UO" work together logically? They don't... they are a contradiction. If you don't want graphics past 1997, then say "I never want UO's graphics to advance past 1997" and be done with it. It doesn't mean that new graphics will not be UO on a logical and factual basis, but it is a legitimate (if debated) opinion.

How are you going to put different opinions in the same post as if that person said it? Did that person ever say graphics did not matter? No they simply stated if you change the graphics it would not be UO. Stop skewing things to fit your argument.

I guess you could take his initial statement and skew it to fit your argument "I like KR, I like SA, I like 2d" does not equal "Graphics don't matter".

But to counter your argument about it being a different game if they change the graphics, I present to you this.

Thanks Dermott for taking the time to make transparent what it is some of us are talking about.

It was like playing a completely new UO.

So if changing from 2d to KR did not change the game drastically, why are there so many people like Madrid here saying "it was like playing a new UO". Sorry if the majority of other people actually contradict what you say Dermott.

Just stop skewing what people say to fit your little dream world. Once again, I do not care if they use the KR graphics or the 2d graphics or the SA graphics (yes they are different than 2d and kr) Because why? lets say it together this time, IT DON'T MATTER. I do not care how many people say "KR graphics are bad" my point is still the same, it is sad that people would let the KR graphics define the game, it is sad they will let the SA graphics define the game, you get it now?

Did I forget anything this time? Am I leaving anything to conjecture here?

 

[Demonous]

im sticking with 2d thanks

 

[Cerwin Vega]

Show us what you like.

 

[Uvtha]

I kept crashing to desktop every time I tried to use it, but it seemed ok. Although I don't think ill switch personally.

We shall see if I can get it running right, it does have some nice features.

 

[Saris]

well, the UI is a little better, but then I would prob use a custom ui thats more like 2d, the art seems to have taken a step back from KR imo, though the animations seem much less goofy.

the way I see it though is that their is no way to make UO look that good, 2d is about as good as you can get. Well a new UO game could use a good enigine and look amazing but.. I have still yet to see an engine that lets you put crap on the ground, it small thing that makes it seem much more real.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Show us what you like.

Im enjoying this quite a bit so far.
It's an excellent blend of the targeting Sys of KR with sharper 2d grahpics.
This setup includes Virtue macros
"Stored" Targeting
My crafters mine or chop as easily as they ever did using uoa.

 

[Ender]

...

Ok, I went into KR and SA and did some picture taking. Every shot provided were taken at Default zoom levels for each client first in one, then in the other form the same tile, then cut out as precise as possible to match the images being compared, then saved as PNG to retain image quality. No further image editing has been done to tweak the clarity, pixelation or details. Each image is as I see them in game.

First up, the Banana Trees, one tall and one short from Isamu Jima (45.0N x 9.12W for those who want to visit them):

Tall Banana Tree

Short Banana Tree

Second are a couple of floortiles... dark redwood and light yellow... mind you again these are the same tiles (something that seems weird given the yellow wood tiles):

Dark Red Hardwood Floortiles

Light Yellow Floortiles:

Next is the "famed" UO sandstone... in this case a small section of Luna Sandstone... note the texture differences, color, and how the shadowing brings out detail in the KR version:

Next is a larger view, my upper patio at my cabin. The patio was created and decorated with KR in mind. Notice the difference between the potted plants, the fountain, squirrel statue, bonsai tree, etc. The two rubble plants in the bottom right are lush in KR while they look straggly and wilted in SA.

And lastly, a look at items in grid view. Now here is somewhere where I'm more of a "let's split the difference" in opinion. The SA/2d graphics are too small, KR too big and in the cases of equipment (armor and weapons, not shown), the difference between KR and Legacy are simply too much that it took quite a while even for me to be able to identify common weapons and armor by sight. In this case I would want 2d/SA item artwork, but at a higher resolution for quality and larger size in the grid slots. Note both UI settings are 85%. Also... no commas!

Oh please let there be a KR graphics option before launch. I was disappointed with the graphics when I logged in during closed beta, and still am. I didn't realize how much nicer KR looked though.


As long as dragons aren't constantly flying if the option is toggled.

 

[canary]

In my opinion it's ALL ugly and they need to work on defining the art so its not muddled.

KR's art was a misfire. The 2d option without enhancing/ polishing the art was a misfire. Will they ever learn?

 

[canary]

Basically they modded a skin. Art still reeks. Yay.

Edit: You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day its still a pig.

 

[Zodia]

ITT Dermott tells us all once again that he prefers KR artwork to SA.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Basically they modded a skin. Art still reeks. Yay.

Edit: You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day its still a pig.

Go smoke another fatty or something. I just read two other threads now where you mention your distaste. How many posts do you feel are necessary to get your opinion out there?

Postcount +1?

 

[canary]

Go smoke another fatty or something. I just read two other threads now where you mention your distaste. How many posts do you feel are necessary to get your opinion out there?

Postcount +1?

A lot of posts, I guess? We'll see.

Anyhow, just to let you know... drugs are bad and they rot your brain. I highly suggest not using them.

 

[Magnus]

I have also pointed out how it is sad that anyone (such as your self, yes this time I am pointing it out) would even care about the graphics, the people who care about graphics care about crappy games.

One of the main reasons why I like KRs art is because its drasticly bigger. I have extremely poor eye sight and it is not a 'sad' point of view to prefer being able to see the games I play. 2D and SA it is much more difficult to see most of the item art, as well as the game world itself.

 

[pacific lily]

While Petra most likely said it better than I will. I am going to harp on you just as fast as I would harp on anyone else. GRAPHICS DO NOT DEFINE A GAME. Why on earth would I play a game that looks great but sucks? Can we say WoW anyone? Yea I said it, the game sucks while it has an "awe" factor. how about Crysis? Another horrible game that just "looked good". I could care less if they do in fact make the game look better, but quit your crying about it. Same goes for anyone who is complaining about the "KR" look of the game, which I have jump on about just as much as I have this.

You people really need to stop and think about what is important in a game. They will get new players Because UO is by far the best MMO, you don't need "cutting edge" graphics to get new players, nor to be a great game.

*walks off once again mumbling about people and graphics*

Perhaps graphics don't define a game for you, but I will tell you who they do define it for... the programmers and art team members. As an artist that creates 3D graphics used in software packages (not UO or any other MMO) I will tell you with absolute certainty that the best artists and programmers are working on projects with the most up to date technology. That is how it works. When something new comes out, those that adapt the quickest get the best jobs, and those are the jobs we want. Those that adapt the quickest are the best and brightest out there. I don't think that UO will ever be able to get the cream of the crop programmers or art team with the borked up graphics that people cry constantly to keep in this game. And you can pretend that doesn't matter... or you can stop being selfish and demand that this game grow, not shrink back into 1997. That is, if it isn't too late.

Lily

 

[Karma392]

Well I am going to reply to the post that began this thread. I am very happy with SA so far. I was only playing 2d after a nightmare experience with KR, the bugs and all drove me right into 2d and I never played the KR version again. I was apprehensive over SA but after I got into it. I was very happy with the graphics, and the feel to manuver through commands and such were much easier this time. Certainly there are a few things to see that gets tweaked but after all its just the first taste of what potiential SA has to give us. I already know that alot of peeps are used to certain things and change can be a bit hard to go through, like a soft fluffy pillow you cant let go which is the 2d feel. But SA has really turned that around and now things are on a better track in my opinion. I think I can trust this expansion to see it through and adjust to a few things that are just a matter of getting used to. Plus with the new fresh weapons, house tiles, gargoyles and more this I see will be a real refreshment to the game we all love best. I know that I will be buying the new SA for my accounts, they have won me over, and resored my faith. Good Job to all!

 

[Gladius]

Now that you've used being color blind as an insult, maybe you should go look up color blindness so you actually know what the **** it is.

People that are color blind see graphics just fine. It's ignorant people that show their discriminatory nature that generalize about things they know nothing about.

Come back when you've gotten over your ignorance. :loser:

That's your take savor it!
Always nice to get a reaction from you too bad I can't read your sweetheart Cloak&Dagger's replies coz he's on my iggy list for being so ignorant like you too hehe.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

One of the main reasons why I like KRs art is because its drasticly bigger. I have extremely poor eye sight and it is not a 'sad' point of view to prefer being able to see the games I play. 2D and SA it is much more difficult to see most of the item art, as well as the game world itself.

Having an actual reason is not the same, and "better graphics" does not mean it has to be bigger. So while your point about eye sight is noted, and very good I might add. They could just make the 2d art bigger and this would fix that. I am talking about the "pretty" not the "functional" if you are saying graphics matter because it has to be "pretty" then I say it is sad, if you are saying you need better graphics because you can not see, then it is not sad.

Perhaps graphics don't define a game for you, but I will tell you who they do define it for... the programmers and art team members. As an artist that creates 3D graphics used in software packages (not UO or any other MMO) I will tell you with absolute certainty that the best artists and programmers are working on projects with the most up to date technology. That is how it works. When something new comes out, those that adapt the quickest get the best jobs, and those are the jobs we want. Those that adapt the quickest are the best and brightest out there. I don't think that UO will ever be able to get the cream of the crop programmers or art team with the borked up graphics that people cry constantly to keep in this game. And you can pretend that doesn't matter... or you can stop being selfish and demand that this game grow, not shrink back into 1997. That is, if it isn't too late.

Lily

Selfish? Saying I do not care if the graphics get improved or stay the same? How is it selfish to NOT CARE or not complain about how they are handling things?

And lets check the rest of your post...If graphics do not care to people who buy the games then your "work" as a graphic artist is really lost, as no one cares about how good you did. Not to say this is right, and also I feel for you, obviously if you are less skilled as a graphic artist than someone else then they should get the job. How this means "graphics matter" is beyond me, think about it...if everyone adapts....then it don't matter, if no one adapts then it still does not matter. If you all get better at your job, but no one really cares...it still does not matter.

By the way, it does not matter if UO gets the "cream of the crop" graphics team, cuase guess what? the graphics don't matter HAHA. so don't apply for EA I will not miss your "good graphics".

 

[sablestorm]

I'm pretty pleased thus far. I like the fact that I can actually play using the SA client. The first time I tried KR, I got slaughtered by a reaper outside my house.

I still prefer 2d monster art (except the Blackthorn Revenge creatures which look better re-imagined). Will you guys consider improving the art for SA down the road?

I like the paperdolls of SA, though I would still prefer the men to have a tall and proud stance rather than looking like they're doing a jigg in a Where the Hell is Matt video.

Today, however, I kept crashing. Perhaps it was because I had just finished a pretty intense EM event and then decided to switch clients.

 

[RoseBlue]

Im enjoying this quite a bit so far.
It's an excellent blend of the targeting Sys of KR with sharper 2d grahpics.
This setup includes Virtue macros
"Stored" Targeting
My crafters mine or chop as easily as they ever did using uoa.

Yes ! From that screenshot looks really good !!! Impressive.
Unfortunately, my syst requir. won't let me use it

 

[Madrid]

Do you ever stop? Your like a broken record.

Can you let other people voice their opinion without having to argue with each and everyone of them?

I honestly can't understand what point it is your trying to drive home. All your really doing is spinning your wheels. Yoru argueing for the sake of argueing.

I can't see any logic behind any of your posts. All I see if you arguing with people about their opinions.

This will be my last post in this thread as I don't want to see it closed and open debate is a healthy thing the majority of the time.

Cloak & Dagger your an effin' numbskull!Not because you don't agree with me or others but because you simply won't let others voice their opinions. You have to rebute everyone who has a different a opinion. Just voice your opinion and and let it stand on it's own merits.

 

[Pepino Gonzales]

IMHO 2d is still far superior even with the bugs and cheaters. I dont play UO to look at a fancy drawn palm tree. Nor do I care how house deco looks. If 2d goes away and doesnt continue to get support. Uo will go away. Imagine if all the time spent on the last two big flops (KR and SA) was spent on fixing the 2d client and removing the cheaters, OMG. You want to play a graphics oriented game, buy a Playstation or something of the sort. UO was better in 1998 hands down. Trammel is where the Nintendo babies play.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Do you ever stop? Your like a broken record.

Can you let other people voice their opinion without having to argue with each and everyone of them?

I honestly can't understand what point it is your trying to drive home. All your really doing is spinning your wheels. Yoru argueing for the sake of argueing.

I can't see any logic behind any of your posts. All I see if you arguing with people about their opinions.

This will be my last post in this thread as I don't want to see it closed and open debate is a healthy thing the majority of the time.

Cloak & Dagger your an effin' numbskull!Not because you don't agree with me or others but because you simply won't let others voice their opinions. You have to rebute everyone who has a different a opinion. Just voice your opinion and and let it stand on it's own merits.

You speak directly to me and I am suppose to ignore you? Is that what you are trying to say? I don't see you telling Dermott to stop repeating himself when no one is talking to him, but I should stop when people are specifically talking to me because why again?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

IMHO 2d is still far superior even with the bugs and cheaters. I dont play UO to look at a fancy drawn palm tree. Nor do I care how house deco looks. If 2d goes away and doesnt continue to get support. Uo will go away. Imagine if all the time spent on the last two big flops (KR and SA) was spent on fixing the 2d client and removing the cheaters, OMG. You want to play a graphics oriented game, buy a Playstation or something of the sort. UO was better in 1998 hands down. Trammel is where the Nintendo babies play.

.....SA is hardly considered a graphical upgrade. It enhances the UI and functionality of UO, far surpassing the 2d client...If you do not play for "fancy drawn palm trees" than you would be a supporter of SA, and perhaps even KR. Or did I miss something in your post? And why are you trying to say SA is a flop? Not even actually here yet....

 

[Heartseeker]

Do you ever stop? Your like a broken record.

Can you let other people voice their opinion without having to argue with each and everyone of them?

I honestly can't understand what point it is your trying to drive home. All your really doing is spinning your wheels. Yoru argueing for the sake of argueing.

I can't see any logic behind any of your posts. All I see if you arguing with people about their opinions.

This will be my last post in this thread as I don't want to see it closed and open debate is a healthy thing the majority of the time.

Cloak & Dagger your an effin' numbskull!Not because you don't agree with me or others but because you simply won't let others voice their opinions. You have to rebute everyone who has a different a opinion. Just voice your opinion and and let it stand on it's own merits.

QFT.

 

[pacific lily]

Having an actual reason is not the same, and "better graphics" does not mean it has to be bigger. So while your point about eye sight is noted, and very good I might add. They could just make the 2d art bigger and this would fix that. I am talking about the "pretty" not the "functional" if you are saying graphics matter because it has to be "pretty" then I say it is sad, if you are saying you need better graphics because you can not see, then it is not sad.



Selfish? Saying I do not care if the graphics get improved or stay the same? How is it selfish to NOT CARE or not complain about how they are handling things?

And lets check the rest of your post...If graphics do not care to people who buy the games then your "work" as a graphic artist is really lost, as no one cares about how good you did. Not to say this is right, and also I feel for you, obviously if you are less skilled as a graphic artist than someone else then they should get the job. How this means "graphics matter" is beyond me, think about it...if everyone adapts....then it don't matter, if no one adapts then it still does not matter. If you all get better at your job, but no one really cares...it still does not matter.

By the way, it does not matter if UO gets the "cream of the crop" graphics team, cuase guess what? the graphics don't matter HAHA. so don't apply for EA I will not miss your "good graphics".

I was referring to both art and development teams. It takes both to create a game.

The rest of your post is silly. You didn't even read what I wrote, you're just ranting... apparently out of habit from what others have commented. Mocking my "work" was a nice touch though. I'm sure you're a brain surgeon or something that totally trumps my little software art director position.

Lily

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I was referring to both art and development teams. It takes both to create a game.

The rest of your post is silly. You didn't even read what I wrote, you're just ranting... apparently out of habit from what others have commented. Mocking my "work" was a nice touch though. I'm sure you're a brain surgeon or something that totally trumps my little software art director position.

Lily

Didn't mock your work, to do so would be mocking myself. I pointed out fact.

Do you think supply and demand does not effect you? You told me graphics matter to the design team, I told you it doesn't....if you can design bad graphics....or good graphics...you can still design graphics, What a particular company or project demands from you is completely different. I simply point out that if people prefer good game play over good graphics, the point is moot and "good graphics" only mean as much as the people who design the other aspects of the game. If I had an idea for a game and planed it out perfectly and hired someone to create graphics for it, they need to be "the best" if it would lessen performance, "good" perhaps, but the absolute best? I think not....I have pointed out that there are many games that actually rather suck but look beautiful. My point was it is sad this has become the "next stage" of games, they will all look awesome but have terrible game play.

And yes it takes "both" to create a game, but I took your post as a defense of the people complaining about the SA graphics, or at the very least a rebuttal to what I had said. If this is wrong, then obviously none of my reply to you makes any sense, and if so I apologize. On the other hand, if it is in defense of these people, who I may add actually keep you in your job position by crying for better graphics, then my post made perfect sense. Well perhaps not keep you in your position...but keep you "adapting to new technology" since if they didn't cry "Waa I can notice a blur, what is this graphics from last month?" then we would not need new technology. Hmm bad argument, since I don't really agree with myself there...I like new technology, but still...I do not think people should let the graphical content of the game determine how good it will be, or how good it is. Maybe this made more sense...maybe not....

 

[Gladius]

oh I have compared my 2D dragon to KR, however I have also compared it to SA, which you, quite obviously have not.
Allow me to demonstrate. I admit he's a bit obscured by the flame he was toasting the tsuki wolf with, but here's my Locrian when we went hunting for ToTs last night.

Then you have seen the difference between KR and the antiquated 2D right. KR was better than 2D. If so that was my point on the SA thingy on your screenshot as I mentioned there are improvements on the SA vs. the 2D client in terms of graphics.

However for us the KR graphics still tops the SA as many things haven't changed as far as they look on the again antiquated 2D. The only exception is if one was color blind as he can see images clearly equal only in black and white

But they can always cry it isn't the graphics that defines a game hehe maybe they just need to upgrade PC's eh? Who cares for these poor souls anyway eh?
The GD changed on SA but take a look at the things the trees they are 2D just the same among a lot of other things. That's why we prefer KR simply because it still has BEST graphics. Your personal preferences are yours to keep of course.

-G-

 

[Gladius]

Do you ever stop? Your like a broken record.

Can you let other people voice their opinion without having to argue with each and everyone of them?

I honestly can't understand what point it is your trying to drive home. All your really doing is spinning your wheels. Yoru argueing for the sake of argueing.

I can't see any logic behind any of your posts. All I see if you arguing with people about their opinions.

This will be my last post in this thread as I don't want to see it closed and open debate is a healthy thing the majority of the time.

Cloak & Dagger your an effin' numbskull!Not because you don't agree with me or others but because you simply won't let others voice their opinions. You have to rebute everyone who has a different a opinion. Just voice your opinion and and let it stand on it's own merits.

That's why I placed him on ignore hehe his views are all self serving as you noticed. And oh he is trying to ride on my post all over too hehe.

 

[Gladius]

...

Ok, I went into KR and SA and did some picture taking. Every shot provided were taken at Default zoom levels for each client first in one, then in the other form the same tile, then cut out as precise as possible to match the images being compared, then saved as PNG to retain image quality. No further image editing has been done to tweak the clarity, pixelation or details. Each image is as I see them in game.

First up, the Banana Trees, one tall and one short from Isamu Jima (45.0N x 9.12W for those who want to visit them):

Tall Banana Tree

Short Banana Tree

Second are a couple of floortiles... dark redwood and light yellow... mind you again these are the same tiles (something that seems weird given the yellow wood tiles):

Dark Red Hardwood Floortiles

Light Yellow Floortiles:

Next is the "famed" UO sandstone... in this case a small section of Luna Sandstone... note the texture differences, color, and how the shadowing brings out detail in the KR version:

Next is a larger view, my upper patio at my cabin. The patio was created and decorated with KR in mind. Notice the difference between the potted plants, the fountain, squirrel statue, bonsai tree, etc. The two rubble plants in the bottom right are lush in KR while they look straggly and wilted in SA.

And lastly, a look at items in grid view. Now here is somewhere where I'm more of a "let's split the difference" in opinion. The SA/2d graphics are too small, KR too big and in the cases of equipment (armor and weapons, not shown), the difference between KR and Legacy are simply too much that it took quite a while even for me to be able to identify common weapons and armor by sight. In this case I would want 2d/SA item artwork, but at a higher resolution for quality and larger size in the grid slots. Note both UI settings are 85%. Also... no commas!

Thank you for this. However the ingots and granite rocks on my KR are correct bigger and just as defined as the SA shot for some reason I don't have that hazy thing on my KR. Also if the normal zoom on images for KR is too big simply reduce to a smaller image to suit your preference with a more compact clear picture. Nothing to it really.

-G-

 

[Gladius]

Basically they modded a skin. Art still reeks. Yay.

Edit: You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day its still a pig.

More like a patch to 2D eh? But of course they added the Gargoyles to make it look like an expansion.

2D enthusiasts will stick to their guns till they can see EA make a credible effort on providing a decent 3D game going.

However it would be remote if folks who use KR will embrace SA too. Why? Well SA is but a compromised degradation of KR.

So where is the success on SA? I don't see it yet perhaps in the future we can figure it out. An upgrade of 1997 graphics is not enough for KR lovers.

It's like upgrading into newer celphones every year with "always" something better to offer to sell the product. SA isn't anything different.

-G-

 

[Vyal]

it's 2d with REALLY bad graphics are you freaking blind.. ROFL those graphics make me wanna yak as I said before that could almost surely be the worst 2d anything I have ever seen honestly with graphics like that it should be free.

 

[Fink]

Thanks for those comparisons, Dermott.

Some people will not have seen the great artwork KR contained. I really don't see the harm in allowing us the OPTION to use the KR graphics if we prefer them. It seems a waste to throw away all that good work. From this point on (SA expansion) ALL the additional graphics are going to be new art, so it seems rather idiotic to argue that we MUSTN'T allow any new graphics into the game. We already have two existing sources of gargoyle sprites - Classic originals and Third Dawn renders - yet it appears neither are used for the new player race.

As for anyone using WoW as an example of good graphics.. sorry, but it looks like something Spyro the Dragon crapped out, ate, then vomited up again. Yes, the lameplay, er gameplay, sucks but that doesn't mean that it automatically looks good. Nor does looking good preclude good gameplay. We CAN have both in UO. Clearly graphics do matter - everyone has their own preference - or there'd be no argument. I'm in favour of there being a choice. I can't see why that would be a bad thing.

 

[Winker]

im sticking with 2d thanks

I agree with you! I see nothing good enough to pull me from my 2d client

 

[Connor_Graham]

That's your take savor it!
Always nice to get a reaction from you

Bigotry and discrimination usually do get a reaction from me. I see you're still ignorant, so I won't continue.

Next time, take the time to actually learn something about what you're talking about and you won't look like such an idiot.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

To my opinion, when you played the SA client for one day and then switch back to 2D, you will find that the 2D Client graphics look kindof "cheap". The environment art is fantastic, as well as the particle effects. But as always, this is a matter of taste.

The SA Client interface has improved A LOT compared to KR. Macros are better, the interface is easier to handle, it finally can replace UO Assist.

However, there are still some minor glitches that need to be ironed out. Especially things that do not work correctly in the new client, like arranging items in legacy containers, macro speed, etc. If these are solved, I guess I will switch to SA Client for good.

 

[CatLord]

Used it... loved it.
Very happy veteran here...
Thank you Devs.


PS: can we copy/paste our old macros?

 

[Violence]

To my opinion, when you played the SA client for one day and then switch back to 2D, you will find that the 2D Client graphics look kindof "cheap". The environment art is fantastic, as well as the particle effects. But as always, this is a matter of taste.

The SA Client interface has improved A LOT compared to KR. Macros are better, the interface is easier to handle, it finally can replace UO Assist.

However, there are still some minor glitches that need to be ironed out. Especially things that do not work correctly in the new client, like arranging items in legacy containers, macro speed, etc. If these are solved, I guess I will switch to SA Client for good.

I don't understand you at all. It's 95% KR in terms of graphics.. The last 5% being bold outlines. Especially if you had turned on Legacy Graphics on KR, it looked better than SA.
SA looks cheap compared to anything.

Client interface is KR masked with what looks like an amateur modification(which is indeed an improvement and that speaks volumes about UO's Devs) to make up for UOAssist, which wasn't really needed if you did run KR itself.

The glitches you mention are only the tip of the ice-berg, I see all the good old bugs from KR right there. You don't do anything too intense in Ultima I guess. Maybe just Slo-Mo PVM with a Tamer?.. Otherwise you'd have noticed I believe.

Oh well.

 

[Black Sun]

People who did not like KR love SA...

Not in my house they don't. I wanted to like SA, and I'll admit, the UI is better than KR, but the Graphics are just as bad. It makes my beloved UO look like crap.

I'll keep my 'classic' 2D, thank you.

 

[wee papa smurf]

I didnt like KR, but i like SA.
weird

 

[TheGrayGhost]

I'm with ya OP. Me and the Wife have been very happy with the SA client. There are some bugs that need to be fixed but as long as they are fixed me and the wife are very happy campers. We both liked KR graphics and such but the hook was the improved functionality and performance over 2D. Both of us being on high end computers and 10meg cable connection probably helped us notice this. SA improved on the functionality even further and helped the performance out a bit as well as fixing the stability issues KR had (Still needs a bit more love here but much much better stability wise, not perfect yet).


Graphics are kewl and all and I guess I can understand why some seem to be all about the graphics. For me and the wife though they just need to be good enough to give us a bit of immersion, after that performance, stability and functionality take priority. Like a car, it could look great but if it ran like pure shyte I still wouldn't want to drive it.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Thanks for those comparisons, Dermott.

Some people will not have seen the great artwork KR contained. I really don't see the harm in allowing us the OPTION to use the KR graphics if we prefer them. It seems a waste to throw away all that good work. From this point on (SA expansion) ALL the additional graphics are going to be new art, so it seems rather idiotic to argue that we MUSTN'T allow any new graphics into the game. We already have two existing sources of gargoyle sprites - Classic originals and Third Dawn renders - yet it appears neither are used for the new player race.
...

The harm is that it takes more Developers' and Programmers' time to program two sets of artwork (not to mention two clients) and increases the likelihood of introducing bugs. Remember all the No-Draw tiles?

Like I said before, I personally prefer the KR graphics, but am more than willing to give those up to reduce bugs and glitches. PLEASE, choose one and only one! I'll still play whichever is chosen.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Nah, that is definitely not it. KR and SA are both built upon the GameByro engine which run such games as Civilization 4, The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion and Fallout 3. It can handle quite easily much more graphically intense games than Ultima Online, especially since the amount of polygons on screen are minimal. KR/SA use polygons only as 'billboards' to project the sprites onto, so maybe at most its using a couple hundred to a thousand polygons on screen for graphical display purposes.


No such luck.

Texture usage plays a heavy role in the stability of any game. In UO, our actual poly count is relatively low, but UO is a texture heavy game (2D games generally are - much less ones that have been around as long as UO). Just because you're not having to draw gozillions of polys doesn't mean you're not pegging the capabilities of a video card by cramming texture data down it's throat. Art was able to contribute to SA's stability by optimizing our texture usage. It was a huge undertaking and despite the trade-offs, was a step in the right direction IMO.

-Grimmy

 

[CroMag1980]

I'm enjoying it and some things I and maybe others reported yesterday have been fixed - it's almost as if they have people working on it and listening to player feedback. Wtf?! =]

 

[CatLord]

You're alive!

 

[Lord Chaos]

I've tried the new client and I must say its messy and graphics are just flowing together, especially housing decorations that are otherwise nicely placed and crisp in 2D looks messy in it.

Its something that desperatly tries to be 3D, yet fails miserably compared to contemplary 3D games.

UO should seriously just have left the game as it was and developed a UO2 completely new with all the cool stuff from UO1, no cheating, better balance, beautiful graphics and housing.

 

[Luvmylace]

you aren't serious?