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Movement to De-Trammelize Felucca

drinkbeerallday

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this is not a red/blue debate.

this is a Felucca content vs. Trammel content debate.

PvP/Felucca content should be different from Trammel content, not just copied Trammel content.
 
S

ShadowJack

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Gotta disagree there Beer


it's all part of the same thing




I think allowing reds in trammel would help ease the item insurance and instances changes on the current fel players



but I think a fighting system should be allowed (chaos/order guild wars, etc.) to allow the reds and blues to fight each other in trammel



The story line could be about the bounds slipping and the murderers getting through, fel losing law and etc...
 

Nexus

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Gotta disagree there Beer
it's all part of the same thing
I think allowing reds in trammel would help ease the item insurance and instances changes on the current fel players
but I think a fighting system should be allowed (chaos/order guild wars, etc.) to allow the reds and blues to fight each other in trammel
The story line could be about the bounds slipping and the murderers getting through, fel losing law and etc...
I can't help but agree with you on this but the truth is the Story Line has already slipped.....
I pulled up an old copy of the Ultima Online: Renaissance Manual.
Felucca & Trammel
The shards, being broken pieces of the Gem of Immortality, contain multiple
facets or faces. When the Wizard Mondain was slain, his apprentice, the
Enchantress Minax, escaped the Avatar by using a powerful spell that transported
her to a different facet of the same shard. From here she planned her
revenge, seeking a way to travel back to the original facet from whence she
escaped and destroy both Lord British and the Avatar. She has found willing
slaves in the creatures of the dark facet, which she calls Minaxia in her own
honor.
She has unlocked the secret to traveling between shards, and has been using
her willing followers to subject Lord British, and in fact all of Britannia, to
attacks by her monstrous minions.At length, she forced Lord British to use
all his available resources and powers to move his people and loyal followers
to yet another facet of the shard, where the Virtues block Minax herself
from attacking him directly. Unfortunately her minions can still make the
journey into Lord British’s new home, but because the Virtues hold sway
over the new lands, players will find themselves unable to harm each other
by direct or indirect means.

Two Similar Worlds
Minax holds complete dominion over the facet that Lord British was forced
to abandon.The worlds themselves are identical, but on the Dark Facet, players
hurt each other and on the Virtue Facet no player can harm another.
Which One is for You?
Despite the struggle between Minax and Lord British, the Minax facet is not
a realm of pure evil, nor is the Virtue facet a land of absolute goodness.The
character of Ultima Online is determined by the people, including you,who
inhabit it.Thus, each facet will have its own strong and weak points depending
on the style of play you prefer.

Advantages of the Dark Facet
The Dark Facet of Ultima Online: Renaissance is little different from the original
Ultima Online that has been played by hundreds of thousands of players
for years. Many players prefer the added flexibility and challenge of a game
world that allows players to attack and fight one another.The Dark Facet also
features a system of four player factions that can form alliances or go to war with one another, allowing for large scale player battles. Factions will largely be controlled by their members, and will therefore have varying goals and ideals. For more about factions,we recommend visiting www.uo.com.

Advantages of the Virtue Facet
On the other hand, many players prefer a game environment where you
can’t be killed by another player. Far from adding to the thrill of the experience,
some players find that being killed by a player ruins the fun of the
game for them.They find the challenge of developing their players’ skills and
working with other players toward common goals to be the fundamental
reward of the game.
To me this is saying that Felucca having an absence of the Virtues should never have had any of the "Soft" protective benefits of Trammel, outside basics like Guard Zones. It was to be a hard dangerous land not somewhere death in game ment nothing outside a bit of gold. The Risk to traveling the Land was to remain not be Trammalized....Felucca was to be a "Classic" environment not this...



It might be an Evil Care Bear but it's still a Care Bear.
 

Kariny

UO Lake Superior News Reporter
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it's not new Felucca content. it is just content copied from Trammel. it should stay in Trammel.
Along with keeping Trammel from becoming Feluccafriendly. I agree that Fel should be harsher as long as Reds are still prevented from entering Tram.

Keep Felucca in Felucca. Keep Trammel in Trammel.

This is all great with me as long as the Reds stay out of Trammel.
And why should the reds have to stay out of Trammel?

Is it because they enjoy a playstyle in the world you don't? There are plenty of Blue players who will hang out in Tram and Felucca... why can't red players hang out in Trammel too? It wouldn't hurt you one bit if PvPers were allowed to enjoy the PvM aspect of this game too.

EDIT: So, I read the reason you have for not wanting reds in Trammel... 'you' don't feel like seeing them there.

I don't see why your opinion on something that doesn't negatively effect you in anyway would be valid or even one under consideration.
I never said I don't feel anything. I said that why should we put up with the crappy attitudes? Those of us that stay in tram do to avoid those players that choose that playstyle.

Actually, it doesn't have to negatively effect anyone for something to be considered.

Also, last I checked Fel has pvm.
 
S

Splup

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Blah I'm tired of ppl saying "Remove insurance from fel cause now there's no risk!!"

What the hell... Where would the risk be if they removed insurance? Nowhere... Ppl would use GM crafted armor and maybe some shadow/copper runic made weapons, risk would be the same as now. I actually think losing an exceptional barbed/horned leather suit would be cheaper then paying 600gp per every piece when dying.

Keep insurance or remove it, I don't care. Now I use my dang expensive suits, if insurance is removed I just make 200x exceptional suits to my house with my crafter...
 

Nexus

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Blah I'm tired of ppl saying "Remove insurance from fel cause now there's no risk!!"

What the hell... Where would the risk be if they removed insurance? Nowhere... Ppl would use GM crafted armor and maybe some shadow/copper runic made weapons, risk would be the same as now. I actually think losing an exceptional barbed/horned leather suit would be cheaper then paying 600gp per every piece when dying.

Keep insurance or remove it, I don't care. Now I use my dang expensive suits, if insurance is removed I just make 200x exceptional suits to my house with my crafter...
The Risk is Time, you can't PvP endlessly without worry because now you have to build those 200 suits, you have to take the time to go get one and re-equip after you die. Loose your gear at a spawn and your pretty much out of it. Loose your gear gate fighting and your gone while you run/sj home to get a new suit after waiting out the combat timer.
 
D

D'Amavir

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I never said I don't feel anything. I said that why should we put up with the crappy attitudes? Those of us that stay in tram do to avoid those players that choose that playstyle.

Actually, it doesn't have to negatively effect anyone for something to be considered.

Also, last I checked Fel has pvm.
Reds have crappy attitudes but blues that murder don't? I don't follow. Its ok for a 4 count blue to be around you but if its a 5 count red its suddenly different?
 
D

D'Amavir

Guest
Blah I'm tired of ppl saying "Remove insurance from fel cause now there's no risk!!"

What the hell... Where would the risk be if they removed insurance? Nowhere... Ppl would use GM crafted armor and maybe some shadow/copper runic made weapons, risk would be the same as now. I actually think losing an exceptional barbed/horned leather suit would be cheaper then paying 600gp per every piece when dying.

Keep insurance or remove it, I don't care. Now I use my dang expensive suits, if insurance is removed I just make 200x exceptional suits to my house with my crafter...

I think that's the point. Right now, you use non crafter goods. Why? Because they aren't as good as the stuff you do use. So, what place do crafters have? Also, if you are using super high end stuff and your opponent uses GM crafted, who has the severe advantage? You do. If you used GM crafted and they did as well,the advantage goes to the one with the better template and skill.

Insurance enables people to run around 24/7 in high end gear. Taking it away would help both crafters and players without the gold/time to gear up in the highest level items.
 
R

Remy_of_GOR

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I think that's the point. Right now, you use non crafter goods. Why? Because they aren't as good as the stuff you do use. So, what place do crafters have? Also, if you are using super high end stuff and your opponent uses GM crafted, who has the severe advantage? You do. If you used GM crafted and they did as well,the advantage goes to the one with the better template and skill.

Insurance enables people to run around 24/7 in high end gear. Taking it away would help both crafters and players without the gold/time to gear up in the highest level items.

ya, and honestly, doesnt everyone prefer getting loot over getting gold in any game?
 

Nexus

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I think that's the point. Right now, you use non crafter goods. Why? Because they aren't as good as the stuff you do use. So, what place do crafters have? Also, if you are using super high end stuff and your opponent uses GM crafted, who has the severe advantage? You do. If you used GM crafted and they did as well,the advantage goes to the one with the better template and skill.

Insurance enables people to run around 24/7 in high end gear. Taking it away would help both crafters and players without the gold/time to gear up in the highest level items.
Don't forget the reliance on High End items that boost SDI, HCI, DCI, Cast Speed, Swing Speed, HLA, HLD, Cast Recovery.

Top end items with combinations of certain properties are not only rare they are expensive. Removal of these items plus the ability to "item up" your template would have a positive effect on the quality of PvP that you see in Fel.
 
X

Xin Law

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drinkbeerallday, you surely do live up to your sign on name, because what you just stated extrememly stupid.

"No Benefical Acts"???? so reds can not heal/rez another red, a player can not heal/rez a guild mate, a factioner can not heal/rez their comrades?

"Get rid of instance corpses" I am assuming you mean the autodress/equip when you loot your own corpse right? If so, please explain why the hell this would be of any importance when you take into the fact that ALL armor,weapons,misc. items are insured and dont fall on the corpse in the first place.

"Get rid of instance peerless" I am assuming you dont like it when players can get to the peerless boss before you can try to pk them. Which is an entirely stupid thing to do in the first place. Why the hell would you want to kill them before they got any of the items/artis from the bosses? If you field up and camp where they drop out of the room, then you get to have your fun. Of course 'stuck option' will need to be made inoperable while in the rooms, but even if it isnt, that player or group of players will only be able to use that ONCE a day. (Oh and here is a tip, you want to have someone cast ',mass curse' when they pop out, so if they are super greedy players they will be stuck because you cant recall or move when your encumbered from the loot
 

drinkbeerallday

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actually you have my position wrong on all three points.

beneficial acts is when you try to res someone and it says you can't. that has no place in felucca.

instanced corpses is when you try to loot the body of a monster and it says you aren't allowed to.

and instanced peerless spawns have no place in Felucca in the first place. just remove it altogether. if you want to do that do it in Trammel.
 

Ailish

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and instanced peerless spawns have no place in Felucca in the first place. just remove it altogether. if you want to do that do it in Trammel.
The problem alot of us have with this, is Fel should NOT be JUST PvP. That is not how it was born, and that is not how it should be. I want to be able to PvP when I go out for that reason AND have the risk of having to PvP when I am out monster hunting or collecting resources.

I lumberjack on my (currently red) main! AND I do it in places like Minoc Gate, Skara Brae, Painted Caves, Buc's Den ... not out in the wilds where I will never be found. I have actually gotten some good PvP that way :D

I work on my karma and virtues in Fel - not particularly because it is faster, but because there is a risk factor.

I LIVE in Fel ... not because all my chars are red (2 are) but because I like the idea of people running past my house and a fight breaking out. Heck, currently 2 opposing guilds have houses near mine, so this is pretty darn common.

If I could viably vend my good there, I would. If I could viably purchase all my needs there, I would. If I could go to Doom there and have the risk of a fight breaking out in the middle of fighting a Dark Father ... I WOULD.

So no ... Fel is NOT just about PvP, it is about risk and excitement.
 

Nystul

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I think that's the point. Right now, you use non crafter goods. Why? Because they aren't as good as the stuff you do use. So, what place do crafters have? Also, if you are using super high end stuff and your opponent uses GM crafted, who has the severe advantage? You do. If you used GM crafted and they did as well,the advantage goes to the one with the better template and skill.

Insurance enables people to run around 24/7 in high end gear. Taking it away would help both crafters and players without the gold/time to gear up in the highest level items.
About all the armor used is CRAFTED. Along with most of the elite weapons. Don't forget bows which have the balanced property limited to crafted only.
 

drinkbeerallday

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About all the armor used is CRAFTED. Along with most of the elite weapons. Don't forget bows which have the balanced property limited to crafted only.
most "crafters" are too lazy to really be successful. it takes a vendor house with many vendors offering a range of goods organized in such a way that will entice people to come back because they know they will find what they need.

if you want a successful barbed kit armor vendor you have to have a large bod operation and again consistently offer good armor on your vendors.

people that complain about this are the ones who are failures. everyone can have a mule character but not everyone has what it takes to be a successful crafter/merchant
 

o2bavr6

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I've always thought that if you enter Fel your char's color should change to red.

No guards at moongates, but there should be guards in towns. So if you attacked a red in town you would still get guard killed.
 

drinkbeerallday

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I've always thought that if you enter Fel your char's color should change to red.

No guards at moongates, but there should be guards in towns. So if you attacked a red in town you would still get guard killed.
if you attack a red you aren't going to get guard wacked unless they change the rules. and wouldn't that defeat the purpose of making everyone red in the first place?
 

Ailish

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then why do you want instanced spawns? I don't get it.
Actually, I believe I said before that it would be neat to remove the INSTANCING from peerless in Fel ... but you keep saying that peerless don't belong in Fel period. That is the point I disagree on.
 

Ailish

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people that complain about this are the ones who are failures. everyone can have a mule character but not everyone has what it takes to be a successful crafter/merchant
Your argument is accurate but flawed. A lot of people would like to be able to buy from others, at reasonable costs, like they used to. I have mules. I have a bazillion BODs. I have leather and ingots. But I do not ENJOY crafting and merchanting. I would much rather be able to get my needs from others.
 
D

D'Amavir

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most "crafters" are too lazy to really be successful. it takes a vendor house with many vendors offering a range of goods organized in such a way that will entice people to come back because they know they will find what they need.

if you want a successful barbed kit armor vendor you have to have a large bod operation and again consistently offer good armor on your vendors.

people that complain about this are the ones who are failures. everyone can have a mule character but not everyone has what it takes to be a successful crafter/merchant
I wouldn't call those that find the entire bod system as horribly tedious are failures. I would call them crafters that enjoy crafting for people that buy their items instead of making the same things over and over and over to turn into an npc with the hopes of getting a reward that would make their skill template not so worthless.

And, as everyone knows, there are so many 'non-failures' that have the top end runics that everyone in the game wants to buy items made from. Sure, you see dupes ones all the time. But the number of legitimate crafters that get these items is very very low. Too low by far to justify any comment saying that the bod system is a success by any means. And too law by far to say that legally crafted items are the most prevelant items used in game.

If one Legendary Smith can make 100 swords and not be able to sell them for a total of 100gold while another Legendary Smith can make 1 sword and sell it for 10m gold, something is wrong. And when 200 Legendary Smiths can't sell their wares for even enough to cover their costs while 10 Legendary Smiths can make billions, something is wrong.

Anyone that tries to say that real crafters are either needed or supported in this game need only look so far as the bod system to see that that is not the case. By crafters, I mean the player that plays a crafter of course. Not the one that has 3 accounts full of smiths so that they can get 100's of more bods than the average person. Those are called mules.
 
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D'Amavir

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About all the armor used is CRAFTED. Along with most of the elite weapons. Don't forget bows which have the balanced property limited to crafted only.
Tell me the number of characters that you have that carry weapons made by a real smith. Not a mule that gamed the bod system to get a top end hammer, or the guy that bought/duped one. A real smith.

Of course, some people might actually carry a low end hammer created weapon sometimes. But, the gap between the haves (those with Elite weapons and armor) and the have nots (those without Elite weapons and armor) is large and growing larger. If you can honestly say that a gm exceptional non runic suit of armor and weapon can compete at all with a val suit of armor and weapon I will have to disagree. That gap and its effects is what item based gaming is all about. Insurance is a response to that direction that the devs wanted us to go in. There is a reason why so many people dupe val hammers, its because they are so darn effective at making the elite items that people require.
 

o2bavr6

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if you attack a red you aren't going to get guard wacked unless they change the rules. and wouldn't that defeat the purpose of making everyone red in the first place?
Believe it or not, back 10 years ago, thats what the rule used to be.

You see you could go red back then by having negative karma, not because you killed people.

So reds could go into town and be safe from getting ganked.

And of course yes, they would have to change the rules :)

And no it wouldnt quiter defeat the purpose of making everyone red, becuse it would remove the current, silly murder count system that we have, that is outdated since the introdcution of Tram.
 

drinkbeerallday

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Actually, I believe I said before that it would be neat to remove the INSTANCING from peerless in Fel ... but you keep saying that peerless don't belong in Fel period. That is the point I disagree on.
i also think legacy dungeons should only be accessible from Felucca.

there should only be one copy of each dungeon in the game, not 2. Peerless were designed with Trammel in mind and put in Felucca as an afterthought so i think they belong in Trammel under those rules.
 

Ailish

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i also think legacy dungeons should only be accessible from Felucca.

there should only be one copy of each dungeon in the game, not 2. Peerless were designed with Trammel in mind and put in Felucca as an afterthought so i think they belong in Trammel under those rules.
I disagree with you about this. Just that, I disagree and would not support it.
 
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