In Game Vendor Seach, Databases and problems and my solution

[NuSair]

The problems with having an in game vendor system are databases, sub servers and the way the vendor system was implemented to begin with.

The answer in short would be to have a sub server/zone where all vendors in that area are put into the searchable database- which in turn creates it's own share of problems.

Can you imaging a dynamic search where each time someone searched for an item that it had to pull information from the active game across all sub servers? The lag that would create would be insane.

A zone/sub server set up specifically to house this would be an issue because of how in grained vendors are into the culture of UO. There is something to be said for not being a cookie cutter.

My solution- have a STATIC database that updates every X (30 minutes, hour, 3 hours, whatever). At that point- you could even then have that information searchable on an external website (something like vendors.uo.com ) and therefore wouldn't impact the client or create lag on the server.

 

[Lady Laurel]

My solution- have a STATIC database that updates every X (30 minutes, hour, 3 hours, whatever). At that point- you could even then have that information searchable on an external website (something like vendors.uo.com ) and therefore wouldn't impact the client or create lag on the server.

I think that would be great, and defiantly something I would use.

I agree that having it in-game would cause too many lag issues.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I don't think we even have to have current up to the minute listings. If it did it from the save at server up, it would always be just 24 hrs old, and wouldnt involve constant searches.

 

[unified]

Excellent idea. This needs to happen sooner than later.

 

[kaio]

just legalize the various search engnies you can find on the internet..
Case solved, and we dont have to buy another "insert name" booster/feature pack whatever.

 

[silent]

I'd rather see them focus on an in game auction system.

 

[startle]

My solution- have a STATIC database that updates every X (30 minutes, hour, 3 hours, whatever). At that point- you could even then have that information searchable on an external website (something like vendors.uo.com ) and therefore wouldn't impact the client or create lag on the server.

This ^^^^

I don't think we even have to have current up to the minute listings. If it did it from the save at server up, it would always be just 24 hrs old, and wouldnt involve constant searches.

or this ^^^^^

OUTSTANDING GUYS !!!!

Now for my 2cents:

It is apparent to me that Origin/EA/Mythic (whoever is making game change decisions) DOES CARE about keeping/growing the UO userbase given all the changes/additions over the past 14 years. Note the big recent changes to monsters/loot in Shame, Stygian Abyss, High Seas, etc.

Having said this, I believe that the addition of a Sosaria-wide vendor search would be BY FAR the SMARTEST way to both KEEP and ATTRACT players to what is (IMO) the greatest MMORPG ever, bar none. (Please don't hijaak this thread to go on about this, it's just MY opinion).

Now, having said that, I want to share something. Most of you are aware of a site or two (that we are not allowed to promote here or share a link to) that gives us the inventory of every vendor in Luna for us to find "stuff" with. I can guarantee you that if these "sites" didn't exist, many players would probably just wrap it up and quit... end of story. While the additions of Luna and Zento have given us a "handy" concentration of vendors (nice), they have also "concentrated the wealth" so-to-speak (not nice at all). New or occasional players that aren't "rich" will find little there that they can afford, and this is a big, BIG problem.

There's an old saying that goes something like this: "In order to understand someone, walk a mile in their shoes". Imagine yourself as someone that has just been introduced to Sosaria and all her possibilities for gameplay. Without in-game help from friends the possibilities are greatly reduced, and much of that is due to the inability to find items on vendors that are more "suited" to your current level of play.

This - BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH UO CURRENTLY - would immediatly be addressed with the addition of a Sosaria-wide search of vendors. Not only would the problem with the "non-rich" being able to find items of use to them be SOLVED, but ALL OF US with houses scattered around the Sosarian landscape would FINALLY be able to COMPETE with the HANDFUL of accounts that presently OWN Luna and Zento.

Actually it's not at all unlike the current massing of all the wealth by a few here in rl (and PLEASE don't hijaak this thread by going off on this, I just felt the urge to offer a comparison).

So let's get on with it ! I don't care if it's realtime (difficult for sure) or once/day at server-up (dang easy), just DO IT. Heck, don't do it for US - do it for YOUR OWN BOTTOM LINE Origin/EA/Mythic. Expand your user-base and keep us old-timers filling your coffers each and every month.

Final note: There's probably one already, but somebody start a new Poll thread that asks at least Stratics users how you feel about this.

Just sayin.... (but trying to keep this game ALIVE)....

Peace/out

 

[Omnius]

truth be told, we have this. EA doesn't approve it but they don't crack down on it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Charge those sites licensing fees and move on with life.

 

[Gowron]

Really? Has it become so darned difficult to actually talk to other players or actually physically search other vendors?

Wow.

 

[Theo_GL]

The problems with having an in game vendor system are databases, sub servers and the way the vendor system was implemented to begin with.

The answer in short would be to have a sub server/zone where all vendors in that area are put into the searchable database- which in turn creates it's own share of problems.

Can you imaging a dynamic search where each time someone searched for an item that it had to pull information from the active game across all sub servers? The lag that would create would be insane.

A zone/sub server set up specifically to house this would be an issue because of how in grained vendors are into the culture of UO. There is something to be said for not being a cookie cutter.

My solution- have a STATIC database that updates every X (30 minutes, hour, 3 hours, whatever). At that point- you could even then have that information searchable on an external website (something like vendors.uo.com ) and therefore wouldn't impact the client or create lag on the server.

Spoken by someone who doesn't understand technology. A centralized DB for this effort would be simple with any high performance DB. Facebook stores user information for 580 million people and updates happen nearly instantanously around the world. Yes, its Hadoop based but still - even a decent tuned Oracle DB with some hardware behind it can handle this. We don't have enough players/data to even put a strain on one of these DBs.

The problem is I suspect UO doesn't even use a DB at all for this stuff. Its in flat files and thus so hard to do things like 'fix all objects with a misspelling' etc. Thats why we have so many versions of items in the game that never get cleaned up. They don't have a good way to just run a quick query against all objects in the game.

 

[Theo_GL]

Oh, and if you were really worried about performance - simply run change data capture on each of the subserver DB's to track the vendor changes and post them to a realtime DW covering all info. Yes you doublestore the info but honestly I'll bet you I can host all the vendor information in UO on a laptop. It can't be more than a couple hundred meg of info.

You query the real time Data Warehouse kept in sych with change data capture.

The technologies are readily available today to do this but again - we are dealing with an archaic system that likely doesn't even use a DB to begin with and there isn't the manpower to rewrite it correctly and efficiently. So we hobble along with these problems/deficiencies.

 

[startle]

Really? Has it become so darned difficult to actually talk to other players or actually physically search other vendors?

Wow.

^^^^ REALLY? Leave Atlantic for a while and see the "rest" of Sosaria. I'm guessin you have a Luna or Zento vendor and would prefer to NOT have the competition.

Just sayin.....:gun:

 

[startle]

truth be told, we have this. EA doesn't approve it but they don't crack down on it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Charge those sites licensing fees and move on with life.

We do NOT have this... ONLY for Luna and Zento do we "have this".
:gun:

 

[Theo_GL]

We do NOT have this... ONLY for Luna and Zento do we "have this".
:gun:

Agreed 100%.

That is a big problem. If you don't have a luna/zento vendor you don't show up in the results and then its hard for people to find your stuff. So, this has caused most people with vendors in the middle of nowhere to shut down and then there IS NO reason to 'wander' looking for vendors anymore.

The search sites help you find the best price and help you set your pricing when someone is buying from you (sometimes on little played shard there won't be any of a object for sale so I'll look across other shards for pricing guidance). It is a HUGE timesaver and while some people like wandering the game looking at vendors and 'shopping'. I hate it. I'm an amazon guy. Search, find, click, buy. I want the item and want to move on with my game experience. I hate to shop in life so why would I enjoy it in game?

The search sites are a godsend and I have no idea why UO can't have something in game. I'd love to be able to 'search' for an item in game and be taken to the vendor selling it. Done. If you want to wander aimlessly - knock yourself out.

These sites also help keep prices DOWN as they allow you to see the high and low price and price your stuff lower than the lowest to help it sell. It allows people to realize bad prices too.

There was a time on GL I was going to buy a Bushido 120 scroll for 3 mil. This is a good price compared to some other less populated shards. Then I went on the search site and found 2 vendors with it for 2 mil. I bought one of those instead. 3 mil stayed on vendor and lower price won.

It is good for the game, helps efficiency, but drives me crazy that its not built into the game. Lame really.

 

[Fridgster]

Maybe someone can shine some light on my misunderstanding here. UO bans the use of search sites... Yet they have never taken any kind of action to remove such sites. I can't imagine it would be all that difficult to have the offending websites removed. Simple call to the host server and it should be a fairly quick resolution. Almost leads me to wonder and come up with bizarre conspiracy theories... and trust me you don't want that

 

[startle]

Agreed 100%.

That is a big problem. If you don't have a luna/zento vendor you don't show up in the results and then its hard for people to find your stuff. So, this has caused most people with vendors in the middle of nowhere to shut down and then there IS NO reason to 'wander' looking for vendors anymore.

The search sites help you find the best price and help you set your pricing when someone is buying from you (sometimes on little played shard there won't be any of a object for sale so I'll look across other shards for pricing guidance). It is a HUGE timesaver and while some people like wandering the game looking at vendors and 'shopping'. I hate it. I'm an amazon guy. Search, find, click, buy. I want the item and want to move on with my game experience. I hate to shop in life so why would I enjoy it in game?

The search sites are a godsend and I have no idea why UO can't have something in game. I'd love to be able to 'search' for an item in game and be taken to the vendor selling it. Done. If you want to wander aimlessly - knock yourself out.

These sites also help keep prices DOWN as they allow you to see the high and low price and price your stuff lower than the lowest to help it sell. It allows people to realize bad prices too.

There was a time on GL I was going to buy a Bushido 120 scroll for 3 mil. This is a good price compared to some other less populated shards. Then I went on the search site and found 2 vendors with it for 2 mil. I bought one of those instead. 3 mil stayed on vendor and lower price won.

It is good for the game, helps efficiency, but drives me crazy that its not built into the game. Lame really.

EXACTLY !
"Wandering around" looking for something "in-game" is a ridiculous endeavor, and one that very few are willing to spend the enormous amount of time required.

Maybe someone can shine some light on my misunderstanding here. UO bans the use of search sites... Yet they have never taken any kind of action to remove such sites. I can't imagine it would be all that difficult to have the offending websites removed. Simple call to the host server and it should be a fairly quick resolution. Almost leads me to wonder and come up with bizarre conspiracy theories... and trust me you don't want that

The sites break NO laws (only EA's silly toa's), so that's not an option for EA. Besides, they know that it ENHANCES the gameplay, they just don't want to admit it....

 

[HD2300]

The databases were migrated to Oracle last year.

 

[Rupert Avery]

personally I love that UO doesn't follow a trend.... the whole vendor system is created to give player interaction and a chance to wander the vast land created for us... Those who don't like to shop around go to Luna or Zento, those who like to explore wander further afield..

A Global Vendor system would ruin on of the last ways of player interaction and reasons to do anything but hunt for the latest fad. I am on a lot of different shards and if I need something I usually just ask people on my ICQ list.

The basic point on my post is don't rob us of a reason to explore they are getting few are far between!

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

The problems with having an in game vendor system are databases, sub servers and the way the vendor system was implemented to begin with.

The answer in short would be to have a sub server/zone where all vendors in that area are put into the searchable database- which in turn creates it's own share of problems.

Can you imaging a dynamic search where each time someone searched for an item that it had to pull information from the active game across all sub servers? The lag that would create would be insane.

A zone/sub server set up specifically to house this would be an issue because of how in grained vendors are into the culture of UO. There is something to be said for not being a cookie cutter.

My solution- have a STATIC database that updates every X (30 minutes, hour, 3 hours, whatever). At that point- you could even then have that information searchable on an external website (something like vendors.uo.com ) and therefore wouldn't impact the client or create lag on the server.

Same issue. Would be abused.

 

[Warpig Inc]

The range of active game play times an update 4 times a day would be best.


Becuase of the search sites pricing is wack and rarely can a deal be found. Someone finds a deal on the site they buy them out and reprice it with theirs. How is this good? Other catch is greed picks up a rune to a vendor house and cleans out the deals to reprice on the greed ring.

The vendor system worked better in the past. Great shops advertised and supplied goods at the right price. Not some majority pump. Players carried a runebook with all the choice shops they found. They would share this info with friends. And this was before CHAT.

They should of come up a huge housing plot, A flea market. Theese could of been placed about the lands or placed near the latest place of activity. Like outside Shame. Plot would have one those Gypsy Wagon camps with NPCs in the center. A new NPC that sells one per account, account bound vendor deed that can be used in theese fleamarket areas. A sign search just as houses have for vendors and recovery of failed vendors. Each plot has a map base common type teleporter so you get random ported to another fleamarket on that map.

 

[Omnius]

We do NOT have this... ONLY for Luna and Zento do we "have this".
:gun:

You can sign your house up with a site and they'll include your vendors...

 

[NuSair]

Spoken by someone who doesn't understand technology. A centralized DB for this effort would be simple with any high performance DB. Facebook stores user information for 580 million people and updates happen nearly instantanously around the world. Yes, its Hadoop based but still - even a decent tuned Oracle DB with some hardware behind it can handle this. We don't have enough players/data to even put a strain on one of these DBs.

The problem is I suspect UO doesn't even use a DB at all for this stuff. Its in flat files and thus so hard to do things like 'fix all objects with a misspelling' etc. Thats why we have so many versions of items in the game that never get cleaned up. They don't have a good way to just run a quick query against all objects in the game.

Actually, I understand technology quite fine thank you, though it's nice for you to assume. Nice try.

I also understand the limitations of trying to take 15+ year old coding and import it into a database when the original code/data wasn't set up for it. Or to add to that old coding to interact with something like this.

And it's really not that hard to convert a flat file into something to use for a database.

As for facebook, that is really an over simplification of how their network is set up.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I know how the unnameable sites do it, and was just thinking on how this 'might be performed on a grander scale, mechanically. To go to Every house, one after another, would be time prohibitive. What of a newly placed house where one hasn't been in months, or a newly placed vendor?

Housing Server - It already polls vendors, and updates instantly. Why couldn't it poll a vendor's items as well? export that off to be queried by an html page. Could also be used to checked for 'dupes', item goes poof, or 'other'.

We carry our bank and stable w/ us, i believe, but nothing from housing, so game play speed should be unaffected.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

The range of active game play times an update 4 times a day would be best.


Becuase of the search sites pricing is wack and rarely can a deal be found. Someone finds a deal on the site they buy them out and reprice it with theirs. How is this good? Other catch is greed picks up a rune to a vendor house and cleans out the deals to reprice on the greed ring.

The vendor system worked better in the past. Great shops advertised and supplied goods at the right price. Not some majority pump. Players carried a runebook with all the choice shops they found. They would share this info with friends. And this was before CHAT.

They should of come up a huge housing plot, A flea market. Theese could of been placed about the lands or placed near the latest place of activity. Like outside Shame. Plot would have one those Gypsy Wagon camps with NPCs in the center. A new NPC that sells one per account, account bound vendor deed that can be used in theese fleamarket areas. A sign search just as houses have for vendors and recovery of failed vendors. Each plot has a map base common type teleporter so you get random ported to another fleamarket on that map.

exactly
Why do you think you see 10000 gems for X amount.

People vendor search and buy them up. Price them in deeds.

This is a game of SAND. Why should you know where everything is? It is un-necessary and lazy.

How about this... create a mechanism where players can hire vendors that are buyers. It sort of exist in Mag. You list the items you want and merchants can sell to you. Create a something like FLEA Market idea... you can post what you want, stock the gold and someone can drop off what you want.

We don't need a vendor search ever.

 

[goldenpower]

Really? Has it become so darned difficult to actually talk to other players or actually physically search other vendors?

Wow.

when was manually searching vendors ever a fun part of the game? browsing and talking to other players is still fun but I remember how much of a nightmare it used to be trying to find something when you wanted it. anyone remember manually searching those barbed kit armor vendors with scores of tunics, leggings, etc..?

 

[elspeth]

personally I love that UO doesn't follow a trend.... the whole vendor system is created to give player interaction and a chance to wander the vast land created for us... Those who don't like to shop around go to Luna or Zento, those who like to explore wander further afield..

A Global Vendor system would ruin on of the last ways of player interaction and reasons to do anything but hunt for the latest fad. I am on a lot of different shards and if I need something I usually just ask people on my ICQ list.

The basic point on my post is don't rob us of a reason to explore they are getting few are far between!

Well, like many have said, you would always be free to not use the vendor tool, in whatever form it might ever possibly be implemented. However, I actually would argue such a vendor search might increase player interaction and exploration.

What I did as a person who didn't even know about those special sites was go to Luna and check all the vendors which is already time consuming. I didn't have time to wander across the forests searching for houses that might or might not have vendors. I do try to pick up runes and keep a runebook of "shopping" but more often than not I find those vendors empty or close to when I go to check. Now that I've learned about the sites, I use them for pricing all the time and I have found an item or two that way which was nice and they do list some other vendor houses besides Luna so I've been able to go and find those houses and check out their vendors. If more homes were listed I would probably go and check them out more often. Especially since they aren't up to the minute. I like to go and just check see what the vendors have that might have changed, my in-game version of "shopping". Once I found a few vendor homes I liked I'd probably add them to my shopping runebook and check them every now and then just to see if they have some interesting item that I wouldn't have thought about before. And if other people did this then it would be more likely that I'd run into other people or perhaps the owner of the home, etc.

So, there are better ways to get us to explore the forests then in search of vendors. Like making interesting spawns on the surface again or make honesty items ONLY spawn along the roads, I mean after all, why are all these people losing their items along random coastlines and in the middle of the forest, what were they doing????

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

What are these elusive things that are so hard to find in UO?


Anyone?

Ah do you mean that gorget with the exact combo of such that it makes your mega suit perfect? Aside that what?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

on another thought...
I think more people would utilize vendors, even running vendors themselves if a world search was instituted, which in turn would also add more items up for sale promoting competition. And regardless of selling price, Devs have already stated (pub 20), that they want to maintain the number of vended objects in the world at reasonable levels. There must be a good 'behind the curtains' reason for this, so I wouldn't look for it to ever happen unless a Dev hints of it

 

[startle]

personally I love that UO doesn't follow a trend.... the whole vendor system is created to give player interaction and a chance to wander the vast land created for us... Those who don't like to shop around go to Luna or Zento, those who like to explore wander further afield..

A Global Vendor system would ruin on of the last ways of player interaction and reasons to do anything but hunt for the latest fad. I am on a lot of different shards and if I need something I usually just ask people on my ICQ list.

The basic point on my post is don't rob us of a reason to explore they are getting few are far between!

Rupert ! You should have given a "disclaimer" here, since you have a SERIOUS conflict of interest. Either you tell them "who" you are and "why" you have taken this stance, or I will.

Sorry dewd, but there's a very obvious BIAS on your part here.... I'll let you explain.

 

[Tazar]

Rupert ! You should have given a "disclaimer" here, since you have a SERIOUS conflict of interest. Either you tell them "who" you are and "why" you have taken this stance, or I will.

Sorry dewd, but there's a very obvious BIAS on your part here.... I'll let you explain.

Considering his signature - I think he already has.

 

[startle]

What are these elusive things that are so hard to find in UO?


Anyone?

Ah do you mean that gorget with the exact combo of such that it makes your mega suit perfect? Aside that what?

Why (RavenWinterHawk) are you so against the concept of being able to both buy and sell via a vendor database? It would be a great addition to this game. Could it be that you have a Luna or Zento vendor who charges obscene prices for high-end wares and don't want to have serious competition from the rest of the player base?

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

We don't need a vendor search ever.

Your opinion and it's wrong.

If we didn't need a vendor search then there would be no demand for and/or use of that search site now would there but in reality that site is heavily used.

 

[Theo_GL]

What are these elusive things that are so hard to find in UO?


Anyone?

Ah do you mean that gorget with the exact combo of such that it makes your mega suit perfect? Aside that what?

You need to get out and see the world a bit son. You play on GL and your view of the world is skewed.

Go log into Sonoma and go shopping for a Bloodwood Spirit. Let me know how long it takes you.

Go log into Napa Valley and try to find a Heart of the Lion.

After several hours of searching - i'll enjoy a response of 'they aren't for sale anywhere'. Tell me how much fun is that?? Its not.

Global search helps you figgure that out in 10 seconds.

 

[Petra Fyde]

How do I find stuff?

I log in to general chat and say 'does anyone know of a vendor selling *whatever*'. It's amazing how well that works, and without logging into any site run by people I know to be using illicit 3rd party programs to get their information.

It's all well and good demanding something like this, but we don't know what the problems are. The way our clients interact with the server code is totally unknown to us.

 

[Rupert Avery]

Well, like many have said, you would always be free to not use the vendor tool, in whatever form it might ever possibly be implemented. However, I actually would argue such a vendor search might increase player interaction and exploration.

What I did as a person who didn't even know about those special sites was go to Luna and check all the vendors which is already time consuming. I didn't have time to wander across the forests searching for houses that might or might not have vendors. I do try to pick up runes and keep a runebook of "shopping" but more often than not I find those vendors empty or close to when I go to check. Now that I've learned about the sites, I use them for pricing all the time and I have found an item or two that way which was nice and they do list some other vendor houses besides Luna so I've been able to go and find those houses and check out their vendors. If more homes were listed I would probably go and check them out more often. Especially since they aren't up to the minute. I like to go and just check see what the vendors have that might have changed, my in-game version of "shopping". Once I found a few vendor homes I liked I'd probably add them to my shopping runebook and check them every now and then just to see if they have some interesting item that I wouldn't have thought about before. And if other people did this then it would be more likely that I'd run into other people or perhaps the owner of the home, etc.

So, there are better ways to get us to explore the forests then in search of vendors. Like making interesting spawns on the surface again or make honesty items ONLY spawn along the roads, I mean after all, why are all these people losing their items along random coastlines and in the middle of the forest, what were they doing????

I do get your point here actually... it could increase searching the land...
But I would add for the most part for me UO is not a game to be played quickly.. Like many other games Oblivion, Skyrim and many other games all are about hours and hours of time playing them. I am not saying you shouldn't/can't play for an hour a day and only do that.. Just for me its not how I like to play UO

Rupert ! You should have given a "disclaimer" here, since you have a SERIOUS conflict of interest. Either you tell them "who" you are and "why" you have taken this stance, or I will.

Sorry dewd, but there's a very obvious BIAS on your part here.... I'll let you explain.

Do you mean the auction site I have helped create and launch.. never really thought about it that way... a vendor system wouldn't really make a difference to it either way... There are a lot of people who simply don't like using vendors for a number of different reasons. I am not really sure what your getting at? I am quite open with who I am and things I do I UO?

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Why (RavenWinterHawk) are you so against the concept of being able to both buy and sell via a vendor database? It would be a great addition to this game. Could it be that you have a Luna or Zento vendor who charges obscene prices for high-end wares and don't want to have serious competition from the rest of the player base?

Yes, I make billions by over charging in Luna. (NOT)

#1 I have 3 Luna vendors from a guy that charges me 85k a month. It is easy to get into Luna. If you are so worried about Luna. Rent a vendor.

#2 I have the Ter Mur Commerce Vendors in Ter Mur where most of my vendors are and I give out free vendors. I am not on the search website.

#3 It is absolute laziness for people to want to search a vendor database versus play the game. Tell me what are these elusive items... you all can't find.

So far no one has listed these elusive items... Items that can be found by simply stocking a rune book with local runes. What are these items?


#4 I am for a place players can list what they want to buy and sellers come to them.

AND NUMBER 5. You are don't get that I can walk around luna... when I realize AOS items are up for a TURN IN. I could (or did) buy ever one for 200k or less and resold them for 400k.

You also see the deeded resources of 10k in gems etc. Thing someone mined them or just bought them up cheaply?

Having a vendor search would give me absolute power to log in 6 am, search the new item. Buy them all.... take the as you mention (to your name calling) of my expensive LUNA vendor and when you get to the vendor search function... you will find what you a looking for on my vendor for 10x as much as it was yesterday.

Do you all really think a way for 1 player, just 1 player to search an entire shard for anything is a good idea?

Come on...


#6 I actually think most of those in favor of search database are what you claim I do... they want to be able to find and resell and stupid prices.

Sounds like that is you.

Oh and as for serious competition. You don't know much about selling in game or Luna. You make gold in Luna by advertising fair prices and you stuff is gone. You make gold in Luna by selling what is in demand. Simple.

Put some work in to being a merchant and finding vendors and you all will be happy.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

How do I find stuff?

I log in to general chat and say 'does anyone know of a vendor selling *whatever*'. It's amazing how well that works, and without logging into any site run by people I know to be using illicit 3rd party programs to get their information.

It's all well and good demanding something like this, but we don't know what the problems are. The way our clients interact with the server code is totally unknown to us.

Bingo. It works. It is interactive. And it is technically a search dbase.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

You need to get out and see the world a bit son. You play on GL and your view of the world is skewed.

Go log into Sonoma and go shopping for a Bloodwood Spirit. Let me know how long it takes you.

Go log into Napa Valley and try to find a Heart of the Lion.

After several hours of searching - i'll enjoy a response of 'they aren't for sale anywhere'. Tell me how much fun is that?? Its not.

Global search helps you figgure that out in 10 seconds.

You need to pick a shard. True I play Atlantic.

Because there are dead shards, I really want a search dbase? Poor solution.


Ah IF THE ARENT for sale anywhere... how is a search dbase going to help you?

Seems like the problem is... no one is selling.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Your opinion and it's wrong.

If we didn't need a vendor search then there would be no demand for and/or use of that search site now would there but in reality that site is heavily used.

People demand a lot of things that aren't need.

I demand a basement level on my house.
I demand random adventure encounters.
I demand we don't have a vendor search.

The site is heavily used and so is speed hacking and scripting.

I demand scripts for mining.
I demand crafting scripts.

See....

Demand is less important then impact.

 

[Theo_GL]

You need to pick a shard. True I play Atlantic.

Because there are dead shards, I really want a search dbase? Poor solution.


Ah IF THE ARENT for sale anywhere... how is a search dbase going to help you?

Seems like the problem is... no one is selling.

That is a problem but the point is without search you WASTE time looking high and low for an item that is not for sale.

I honestly think there should be 2 forums - one for populated shards and one for non-pop. I play both (I play about 4 shards actually) and I can tell you I don't want to spend my time searching for stuff on a non-pop shard that isn't even for sale. Search - none for sale - move on. 10 seconds.

Global search is absolutely needed and the sites that exist to solve the issue are bandaids on the solution. They aren't updated as much as you'd like and they don't cover everything and not everyone knows about them. Something IN GAME would aleviate all of those issues.

If you don't want to use it - fine - but the majority of the players would have their gameplay enhanced by not wasting time finding items.

And Petra - not everyone uses general chat. Go to Sonoma in the evenings. I'll do a roll call and there will be 5-6 people in Gen Chat. Thats crazy. You can't find stuff that way.

 

[Potgut]

For those of you saying you don't want a vendor search, keep in mind that we already have them. The issue is whether or not the UO developers should get on the act and develop their own vendor search. It wouldn't effect the game that much if they did because we will have vendor searches either way.

The only way I could possibly see us not having any type of vendor searches is if the developers pull the plug on classic client and have enhanced client only, which could give them more capabilities to maybe stop search sites from functioning.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

That is a problem but the point is without search you WASTE time looking high and low for an item that is not for sale.

I honestly think there should be 2 forums - one for populated shards and one for non-pop. I play both (I play about 4 shards actually) and I can tell you I don't want to spend my time searching for stuff on a non-pop shard that isn't even for sale. Search - none for sale - move on. 10 seconds.

Global search is absolutely needed and the sites that exist to solve the issue are bandaids on the solution. They aren't updated as much as you'd like and they don't cover everything and not everyone knows about them. Something IN GAME would aleviate all of those issues.

If you don't want to use it - fine - but the majority of the players would have their gameplay enhanced by not wasting time finding items.

And Petra - not everyone uses general chat. Go to Sonoma in the evenings. I'll do a roll call and there will be 5-6 people in Gen Chat. Thats crazy. You can't find stuff that way.

I just think the tools to find stuff are out there. I don't think you can disagree that it only takes one person to get some info that bloodwood will be used for XY and Z... in a matter of a day it will be scarfed up, repriced and put out and X more expensive.

When new events start and the rare drop of MOON STONE dagger of fire drops, some one will find them all and price them at X million more in one spot.

Im sorry but abuse outweighs any gain I see, when you can make a rune book, use global chat, ask at a bank.

Still I haven't seen a list of items that are so urgent.

My feeling is someone logs in, needs invis potions, can't find them, gripes they are wasting their time, and then thinks they should have access in an instant to where they might be on a vendor.

Sorry.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

That is a problem but the point is without search you WASTE time looking high and low for an item that is not for sale.

I honestly think there should be 2 forums - one for populated shards and one for non-pop. I play both (I play about 4 shards actually) and I can tell you I don't want to spend my time searching for stuff on a non-pop shard that isn't even for sale. Search - none for sale - move on. 10 seconds.

Global search is absolutely needed and the sites that exist to solve the issue are bandaids on the solution. They aren't updated as much as you'd like and they don't cover everything and not everyone knows about them. Something IN GAME would aleviate all of those issues.

If you don't want to use it - fine - but the majority of the players would have their gameplay enhanced by not wasting time finding items.

And Petra - not everyone uses general chat. Go to Sonoma in the evenings. I'll do a roll call and there will be 5-6 people in Gen Chat. Thats crazy. You can't find stuff that way.

Theo I understand what you are saying too but would most players have their game play enhanced by simply have the tools found on the TEST SHARDS.

I don't think every issue in UO should be put to the litmus test of enhanced game play.

Anything put to that test would pass.

 

[NuSair]

It's all well and good demanding something like this, but we don't know what the problems are. The way our clients interact with the server code is totally unknown to us.

One of the ways I mentioned had no interaction between our client and the server code.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

personally I love that UO doesn't follow a trend.... the whole vendor system is created to give player interaction and a chance to wander the vast land created for us... Those who don't like to shop around go to Luna or Zento, those who like to explore wander further afield..

A Global Vendor system would ruin on of the last ways of player interaction and reasons to do anything but hunt for the latest fad. I am on a lot of different shards and if I need something I usually just ask people on my ICQ list.

The basic point on my post is don't rob us of a reason to explore they are getting few are far between!

don't rob us of a reason to explore they are getting few are far between!

After reading all posts and looking for one that says what I want to say .. I am responding to this one, because I agree fully with Rupert Avery!

UO does need reasons for players to go about wandering Sosaria seeking their requirements, while discovering how to navigate the lands, as UO intended. If encouraged to do so, crafts people could open their doors to selling items on vendors. Sonoma Luna City Vendors .. yikes. Most Vendor's bags are empty. Only high priced items seem to be available. Try find a simple spell book with 64 spells anywhere at a reasonable price .. it can be found if one goes searching outside of Luna City. I tried making a new player on every shard and discovered that without the help of kind players I couldn't begin to find anything at a price a new player could afford, even with the escorting in Haven giving my new characters 500 gp every 5 minutes. But it was fun trying.

Because of too much help so players don't waste time, in my opinion, the players have lost connection with the real UO. It's like driving a car around that will park itself for you or the car's GPS showing you where to go so you have no idea what using a map is about. It's like steering a ship without the knowledge of how to use the trustworthy sextant supplied by UO. No one has to use their minds any more to play this game. This game has always been a Learning Experience and good exercise for the brain power; a game full of interesting puzzles that need to be solved. Wasted Time? What makes a person think and learn isn't wasted time.

Relying on UOassist, to me, is wasted time. I can navigate a ship faster and safer using sextants, maps, and experience having learned much in the game and in real life and always know how much and what I am carrying in my backpack.

Wasted time, to me, is letting something or someone else do my thinking for me. Patience instead of instant gratification for my needs, is what I require. I appreciate the challenges offered by this unique game, Ultima OnLine. Unfortunately, does it have to be all about US$$$. What I am seeing, is that players have to buy their needs in the game for US$$$ or else buy their UO Gold from some outside web to pay for their needs when found. ...

end

 

[sherkborg]

Ok I have to give my input on this. You guys saying we dont need a database are wrong.

Heres how my "random player" experience was with these sites.

I reactivated my account after 5 years. The game has changed and I had nothing. I came into a dead server and no one was alive. I need a runebook made, anyone around?

Can I get a full spellbook? Can I get a set of LRC armor? Anyone?
Anyone selling reagents? Anyone selling resources (ingots/etc for crafting).
WHERE IS EVERYONE. AT that point I was ready to quit. Good bye uo, never again.

I went to a more popular server (atlantic) and went into chat. Can I get a full spellbook? Yes come here. Thanks. Can I get a set of LRC armor? Anyone? "Go visit this website and look for one". Minutes later, oh theres one right outside yew gate. Can I get some reagents? Anyone? *checks website* Oh theres a vendor in luna selling them for 1k amounts. Nice.
Skip forward a month:
I want to make a sampire. I need a good weapon. Hey friends, you got any sampire gear? Nope. Chat: Anyone got sampire gear? Nothing. I go and search website, oh theres the gear I need. 1 hour later and after travelling around (luna and other places) I then had my gear.

I want to make a scribe. Oh man, vendors sell 20 regs and have to be built up? *checks website* Oh theres 60k all regs on this vendor. *starts workin it*.


Ok so after my little play there, people who think the search system is not needed, lets hear your godly excuses because no matter what it is, look at when I started and tried to find items. I couldnt. Even on atlantic, not everyone has a crafter on standby. If you think a player is going to waste an hour looking through luna vendors YOUR INSANE and most likely a luna vendor mall owner yourself. Stupid, overpriced and not a reasonable thing to expect a person to do. Search for items in UO is what will make people quit. Ill tell you right now, if all vendor sites went down and UO didnt replace it I would probably quit. My game and purpose is NOT to run around looking at vendors. I would rather do a treasure map or hunt something ingame. I hate shopping, I dont want to walk around looking for items thats SIMs online. Get real.

Now from a vendor owner perspective where I own a successful *blank* type of vendor outside luna not on the website vs my *blank* resource vendor inside luna listed on them. My vendor outside luna suffers. I cant get any sales and im lucky if I can make my 45k a day quota for payment. Im debating on shutting the vendor down since I cant make a dime. My luna vendor, sells lots. All the time, I can hardly keep it stocked. When my vendor is on the website, it actually works with me. I can sell items while not being there. People can get items without me being there. If someone asks for something I have and im not online, they can search for it and run to my vendor. They get what they want, I get what I want. Its a win win. My other vendor that isnt listed has great items but unfortunately I have to monitor it and show people it. Its a waste of time considering I could just grind money and make more then it brings it. It is however nice to sell the items I hunt and offer them to people who may not want to hunt those monsters like I do.



So im summary, every mmo has a auction house because people want it, and its vital. It allows users to find items when they need to because after all, when your limited in gameplay (needing a lrc suit, or something like that) its no fun. Now if you think wandering the land is fun, your the 0% of UO players. I honestly hate it, and would quit. So think about that, and then think of the rest of UO players. Everyone is lazy and has preferences. I like to hunt monsters, other people like to craft. If you force us to go shopping for hours we turn into girls, and the game is called Sim Online. Think about it and quit trying to wreck ultima.

I honestly think most of the people here want UO to fail. I honestly do and its you people who shoot down idea after idea for no logical reason. If it helps 1 person, its beneficial isnt it? If it helps 1 person stay in the game, its beneficial. So quit trying to make something not there. If you didnt want UO to be the same as everything else... .too late. Theres no more pk in this game, its just like WoW with "raid" bosses, it has sweet tier items (imbued and arties) and honestly its just a WoW clone like every other game. So wanting a no auction house to be different is stupid. Hell why dont we not have backpacks, thats unique LOL see how a dumb idea is dumb?

A vendor site or ingame database is easy to do, it needs to be done. End of story.

 

[startle]

Why (RavenWinterHawk) are you so against the concept of being able to both buy and sell via a vendor database? It would be a great addition to this game. Could it be that you have a Luna or Zento vendor who charges obscene prices for high-end wares and don't want to have serious competition from the rest of the player base?

Yes, I make billions by over charging in Luna. (NOT)

#1 I have 3 Luna vendors from a guy that charges me 85k a month. It is easy to get into Luna. If you are so worried about Luna. Rent a vendor.

That's what I thought. It's ONLY those who have Luna or Zento vendors that are already on the current Luna/Zento vendor search and don't want the competition. A Sosaria-wide vendor search would be a great asset for the REST of us. It would be a great game addition. Why would you not wish something that would make UO so much more PLAYABLE for the "masses" ? Only one TRUE reason comes to mind.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

That's what I thought. It's ONLY those who have Luna or Zento vendors that are already on the current Luna/Zento vendor search and don't want the competition. A Sosaria-wide vendor search would be a great asset for the REST of us. It would be a great game addition. Why would you not wish something that would make UO so much more PLAYABLE for the "masses" ? Only one TRUE reason comes to mind.

What reason is that? I don't understand what you are saying...

Oh Oh... thats right my opinion doesn't count because you believe I make billions over selling.

And as for competition... as long as luna sells at stupid prices, my vendor sell out at reasonable but 20% marked up prices. Argh. If you dont get it you dont get it.

Im point blank telling you that if you give me a searchable database for all of UO, I will become a billionaire. Wake up.

I have news... most people use the search vendor... and that is way there are 10000 gems deeds. Is that what you want for the whole land?

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Ok I have to give my input on this. You guys saying we dont need a database are wrong.

Heres how my "random player" experience was with these sites.

I reactivated my account after 5 years. The game has changed and I had nothing. I came into a dead server and no one was alive. I need a runebook made, anyone around?

Can I get a full spellbook? Can I get a set of LRC armor? Anyone?
Anyone selling reagents? Anyone selling resources (ingots/etc for crafting).
WHERE IS EVERYONE. AT that point I was ready to quit. Good bye uo, never again.

I went to a more popular server (atlantic) and went into chat. Can I get a full spellbook? Yes come here. Thanks. Can I get a set of LRC armor? Anyone? "Go visit this website and look for one". Minutes later, oh theres one right outside yew gate. Can I get some reagents? Anyone? *checks website* Oh theres a vendor in luna selling them for 1k amounts. Nice.
Skip forward a month:
I want to make a sampire. I need a good weapon. Hey friends, you got any sampire gear? Nope. Chat: Anyone got sampire gear? Nothing. I go and search website, oh theres the gear I need. 1 hour later and after travelling around (luna and other places) I then had my gear.

I want to make a scribe. Oh man, vendors sell 20 regs and have to be built up? *checks website* Oh theres 60k all regs on this vendor. *starts workin it*.


Ok so after my little play there, people who think the search system is not needed, lets hear your godly excuses because no matter what it is, look at when I started and tried to find items. I couldnt. Even on atlantic, not everyone has a crafter on standby. If you think a player is going to waste an hour looking through luna vendors YOUR INSANE and most likely a luna vendor mall owner yourself. Stupid, overpriced and not a reasonable thing to expect a person to do. Search for items in UO is what will make people quit. Ill tell you right now, if all vendor sites went down and UO didnt replace it I would probably quit. My game and purpose is NOT to run around looking at vendors. I would rather do a treasure map or hunt something ingame. I hate shopping, I dont want to walk around looking for items thats SIMs online. Get real.

Now from a vendor owner perspective where I own a successful *blank* type of vendor outside luna not on the website vs my *blank* resource vendor inside luna listed on them. My vendor outside luna suffers. I cant get any sales and im lucky if I can make my 45k a day quota for payment. Im debating on shutting the vendor down since I cant make a dime. My luna vendor, sells lots. All the time, I can hardly keep it stocked. When my vendor is on the website, it actually works with me. I can sell items while not being there. People can get items without me being there. If someone asks for something I have and im not online, they can search for it and run to my vendor. They get what they want, I get what I want. Its a win win. My other vendor that isnt listed has great items but unfortunately I have to monitor it and show people it. Its a waste of time considering I could just grind money and make more then it brings it. It is however nice to sell the items I hunt and offer them to people who may not want to hunt those monsters like I do.



So im summary, every mmo has a auction house because people want it, and its vital. It allows users to find items when they need to because after all, when your limited in gameplay (needing a lrc suit, or something like that) its no fun. Now if you think wandering the land is fun, your the 0% of UO players. I honestly hate it, and would quit. So think about that, and then think of the rest of UO players. Everyone is lazy and has preferences. I like to hunt monsters, other people like to craft. If you force us to go shopping for hours we turn into girls, and the game is called Sim Online. Think about it and quit trying to wreck ultima.

I honestly think most of the people here want UO to fail. I honestly do and its you people who shoot down idea after idea for no logical reason. If it helps 1 person, its beneficial isnt it? If it helps 1 person stay in the game, its beneficial. So quit trying to make something not there. If you didnt want UO to be the same as everything else... .too late. Theres no more pk in this game, its just like WoW with "raid" bosses, it has sweet tier items (imbued and arties) and honestly its just a WoW clone like every other game. So wanting a no auction house to be different is stupid. Hell why dont we not have backpacks, thats unique LOL see how a dumb idea is dumb?

A vendor site or ingame database is easy to do, it needs to be done. End of story.

Its not needed. You subscribe to the fact you should have all instantly in game. Sometimes the game is about well playing the game and not just signing in to get all you want in an hour.

Try the test center. Its fun.

A vendor site or ingame database is not needed. End of story.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

don't rob us of a reason to explore they are getting few are far between!

After reading all posts and looking for one that says what I want to say .. I am responding to this one, because I agree fully with Rupert Avery!

UO does need reasons for players to go about wandering Sosaria seeking their requirements, while discovering how to navigate the lands, as UO intended. If encouraged to do so, crafts people could open their doors to selling items on vendors. Sonoma Luna City Vendors .. yikes. Most Vendor's bags are empty. Only high priced items seem to be available. Try find a simple spell book with 64 spells anywhere at a reasonable price .. it can be found if one goes searching outside of Luna City. I tried making a new player on every shard and discovered that without the help of kind players I couldn't begin to find anything at a price a new player could afford, even with the escorting in Haven giving my new characters 500 gp every 5 minutes. But it was fun trying.

Because of too much help so players don't waste time, in my opinion, the players have lost connection with the real UO. It's like driving a car around that will park itself for you or the car's GPS showing you where to go so you have no idea what using a map is about. It's like steering a ship without the knowledge of how to use the trustworthy sextant supplied by UO. No one has to use their minds any more to play this game. This game has always been a Learning Experience and good exercise for the brain power; a game full of interesting puzzles that need to be solved. Wasted Time? What makes a person think and learn isn't wasted time.

Relying on UOassist, to me, is wasted time. I can navigate a ship faster and safer using sextants, maps, and experience having learned much in the game and in real life and always know how much and what I am carrying in my backpack.

Wasted time, to me, is letting something or someone else do my thinking for me. Patience instead of instant gratification for my needs, is what I require. I appreciate the challenges offered by this unique game, Ultima OnLine. Unfortunately, does it have to be all about US$$$. What I am seeing, is that players have to buy their needs in the game for US$$$ or else buy their UO Gold from some outside web to pay for their needs when found. ...

end

Two cheers to you and Rupert for having vision.