Only when someone is making no sense at all.
And last time I checked you weren't even playing UO much at all anymore in your own words.
So basically it sounds to me like you are not a factor. Just a historian maybe?
Last edited:
-
Hail Guest! We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
-
Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
-
Hail Guest!, Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
-
Hail Guest! Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!
And last time I checked you weren't even playing UO much at all anymore in your own words.
So basically it sounds to me like you are not a factor. Just a historian maybe?
Ok folks, please keep discussions about the topic at hand. I will not tolerate bickering.
ive had the day to think about this and if i can make one suggestion it would be to give those of us who slugged it out in factions all these years a little something to remember it by.
1. let us keep our war horses.
2. give us a sigil stone colored to our faction color to take home for deco, put something on it like "The True Brit's are proud of your years of service to the crown!" or "you helped the forces of the dark keep the memory of Minax alive" kinda thing.
3. leave the old bases where they are and take the non-faction person block off them - might be nice to go through there and remember the old fights.... hell, might be a nice place to have some cage matches! you could even put up a stone in each base that gives a little blurb about what it was and who used it and for what. historical point of interest. "welcome to a faction stronghold. This was the base used by the Shadow Lords. the shadow lords blah blah blah (put some of the stuff off the current sign up stone in there)"
after that then get into the new system.
cant leave the old one by just turning it off.
no closure is brutal!
1. let us keep our war horses.
2. give us a sigil stone colored to our faction color to take home for deco, put something on it like "The True Brit's are proud of your years of service to the crown!" or "you helped the forces of the dark keep the memory of Minax alive" kinda thing.
3. leave the old bases where they are and take the non-faction person block off them - might be nice to go through there and remember the old fights.... hell, might be a nice place to have some cage matches! you could even put up a stone in each base that gives a little blurb about what it was and who used it and for what. historical point of interest. "welcome to a faction stronghold. This was the base used by the Shadow Lords. the shadow lords blah blah blah (put some of the stuff off the current sign up stone in there)"
after that then get into the new system.
cant leave the old one by just turning it off.
no closure is brutal!
Last edited:
i just cant believe that you wanna take all my pretties away from me!!!
Yes it would hurt. It would interfere with EM events .... I don't know about your shards EM events but certainly we don't need anymore crap dorking off at the EM events on my shard.... bad enough already people come and don't listen cause they are too busy hitting and battling their own guildmates or standing on the EM's AFK.... There's enough stupidity at them... I don't think it would be good to add to it. If people want to PvP they know where to go.
Perhaps they can move the War Horses to some sort of special thing you can get with Turn in Points or something... Perhaps special colored War Horses could be bought with your Town Loyalty... Would be nice to have pets you can rez... without needing a Tamer to assist you. And they have much better resists and such than a regular horse. I see nothing wrong with finding a new home for them.
- Awards
- 1
I have the same pony collection!!i just cant believe that you wanna take all my pretties away from me!!!
- Awards
- 1
I wish!
That was one hint...
It wasn't clear but uniting all shards into a combat areas is is how i interpreted it
Last edited:
,just cause they're not faction horses,doesn't mean they can't be still used,maybe they can changes to regular tameables but keep they're stats,I'd hate to see someone's pet go the way my white wyrm went.
Is the blacksmith of the faction a business closing?
I hope for the system that a craftsman can play an active part.
For example, All gears cannot buy from a system, and only a participating craftsman can make it.
I hope for the system that a craftsman can play an active part.
For example, All gears cannot buy from a system, and only a participating craftsman can make it.
If I might add my two-cents in a thread so full of opinions that mine will surely get lost in the shuffle. I'd just like to say that I don't play factions, nor will I ever. They have nothing that appeals to me simply because if I want to PvP I will either go to Felucca or play on SP. That being said, my one--and main--concern about factions has always been that of faction-members having more powerful equipment than everyone else. It really does not seem fair in the slightest for them to get armor/artifacts that are much more powerful than non-faction members could obtain--AND still be able to use them while NOT fighting each other in Trammel.
I have nothing against faction armor in principle (other than still not seeing any point whatsoever for it, other than a carrot of enticement which shows me a broken system anyhow). But I feel it is a slight to all other players to give faction members such incredible equipment and us non-faction members nothing. It hurts normal PvPing by making faction-members have an unfair advantage. It hurts PvM by ensuring faction-members will have an advantage that we in Trammel could not hope to attain.
I know that the general response to this is 'Well, join factions and you can have the armor too!', but I really think having us participate in a system the vast majority want to have nothing to do with just so we can have better gear is quite silly. Not just silly though, it smacks of a very broken system that I hope (though, I am not holding my breath) this new system will fix. We already have to go to Felucca for our skill and stat scrolls, plus a myriad of artifacts available only to Felucca spawns. Stop with the 'enticements' to get us to PvP that just further the unfair advantages of the minority while leaving bitter tastes in the majority's mouths.
I have nothing against faction armor in principle (other than still not seeing any point whatsoever for it, other than a carrot of enticement which shows me a broken system anyhow). But I feel it is a slight to all other players to give faction members such incredible equipment and us non-faction members nothing. It hurts normal PvPing by making faction-members have an unfair advantage. It hurts PvM by ensuring faction-members will have an advantage that we in Trammel could not hope to attain.
I know that the general response to this is 'Well, join factions and you can have the armor too!', but I really think having us participate in a system the vast majority want to have nothing to do with just so we can have better gear is quite silly. Not just silly though, it smacks of a very broken system that I hope (though, I am not holding my breath) this new system will fix. We already have to go to Felucca for our skill and stat scrolls, plus a myriad of artifacts available only to Felucca spawns. Stop with the 'enticements' to get us to PvP that just further the unfair advantages of the minority while leaving bitter tastes in the majority's mouths.
It's all fine with a system, where PvP'ers can find more targets without having to go red and where they an fight each others but they should not get free or cheap powerful gear from the system.
Armor and weapon should come from the crafters or from monster spawn.
On Siege, faction and non factions do fight each others, mostly where one of the sides have chosen to go red. No matter if it is the red or blue side, who are faction, one of the sides should not have advantage from free or cheap or powerful gear.
Not all are minded for PvP all the time, some like doing others stuff too, like PvM, crafting, gathering, running a shop or something else and then PvP when attacked or they see a target.
I only believe a few guilds on Siege will join this new system as they can't be safe in town and will get a lot more PvP than they wish for.
If the guilds had to choose Virtue or Vice but each member could choose to turn it on or not, I believe more guilds would join it as they could have a PvP team to defend their members.
I believe it's hard to make a system, that both works on normal shards and on Siege where the whole shard is Fel
Armor and weapon should come from the crafters or from monster spawn.
On Siege, faction and non factions do fight each others, mostly where one of the sides have chosen to go red. No matter if it is the red or blue side, who are faction, one of the sides should not have advantage from free or cheap or powerful gear.
Not all are minded for PvP all the time, some like doing others stuff too, like PvM, crafting, gathering, running a shop or something else and then PvP when attacked or they see a target.
I only believe a few guilds on Siege will join this new system as they can't be safe in town and will get a lot more PvP than they wish for.
If the guilds had to choose Virtue or Vice but each member could choose to turn it on or not, I believe more guilds would join it as they could have a PvP team to defend their members.
I believe it's hard to make a system, that both works on normal shards and on Siege where the whole shard is Fel
I do have an opinion too! ;-)
1. Faction Artis: First off, remember there are still non-moonbound faction artis. Like my Clainin's Spellbook from the Trinsic Event where Clainin died. I would really, really be pissed if that one goes *poof*.
Furthermore, I understand the concerns of everybody when it comes to faction artis. But one should remember that the introduction of those revived faction play a few years ago, whereas the last faction patch killed it off again. I see nothing wrong with such an incentive.
2. What about thieves and crafters: They always played a role in faction warfare (even though it was too small a role by many's point of view), please make sure they fit into the system.
3. Keep the old stuff! Let people keep their war horses, let the HQs stand and open them for everyone. I particularly like the ideas of putting a boss in each base and of giving active faction players a sigil on a pedestal as a deko item when switching faction off. People do like memorabilia!
And now my biggest concern:
Why is this better than factions?
I play factions for two reasons:
1. If you kill someone in a faction fight, you are rid of him for 20 min, enough time to finish the champ. In a classic blue vs. red you have endless resurrection and fighting without ever coming to a conclusion. This might also work with the wound system, we'll see.
2. My whole guild loves having control of towns - 'tis a roleplaying thing even tho we are more of a powergamer guild. Conquering and defending towns, setting up vendors and guards, those are the fun things. People asked for year for improvement on the town interaction side of factions. But instead with those battlegrounds you will go away from that. I fear this way the system might go the way of the arenas, even PvPers prefer to fight for something. No one really cares about the shrines in the middle of nowhere, the towns on the other hand...
1. Faction Artis: First off, remember there are still non-moonbound faction artis. Like my Clainin's Spellbook from the Trinsic Event where Clainin died. I would really, really be pissed if that one goes *poof*.
Furthermore, I understand the concerns of everybody when it comes to faction artis. But one should remember that the introduction of those revived faction play a few years ago, whereas the last faction patch killed it off again. I see nothing wrong with such an incentive.
2. What about thieves and crafters: They always played a role in faction warfare (even though it was too small a role by many's point of view), please make sure they fit into the system.
3. Keep the old stuff! Let people keep their war horses, let the HQs stand and open them for everyone. I particularly like the ideas of putting a boss in each base and of giving active faction players a sigil on a pedestal as a deko item when switching faction off. People do like memorabilia!
And now my biggest concern:
Why is this better than factions?
I play factions for two reasons:
1. If you kill someone in a faction fight, you are rid of him for 20 min, enough time to finish the champ. In a classic blue vs. red you have endless resurrection and fighting without ever coming to a conclusion. This might also work with the wound system, we'll see.
2. My whole guild loves having control of towns - 'tis a roleplaying thing even tho we are more of a powergamer guild. Conquering and defending towns, setting up vendors and guards, those are the fun things. People asked for year for improvement on the town interaction side of factions. But instead with those battlegrounds you will go away from that. I fear this way the system might go the way of the arenas, even PvPers prefer to fight for something. No one really cares about the shrines in the middle of nowhere, the towns on the other hand...
*nods*
Guilds can always go to war if they wish to fight everyplace. But I think most players in the system will think that there's benefit to having a neutral ground to interact peacefully on.
-Galen's player
T
Tazar
Guest
That would mean letting reds into these areas as well. I don't see that happening.
Oh now *this* would get me interested in PvP again! Just wow!
A few bits I'd like to say on this though.
One of the big deterrents for some of us potential/ex PvPers is lacking either funds, access to specific rare items or just the knowledge to build our own uber suits for "normal" PvP...Coupled with having the right skills and knowing how to use them, it really gives newcomers/returners a huge learning curve and effort to get started.It would be lovely if Virtue vs Vice gives us "newbs" a start point as well as a place for more experienced PvPers to fight in an environment where the fights are more balanced and where skill and tactics feature more strongly than a fancy suit and some crazy hybrid template. So what I'd ask for is that in these fights, only the designated V vs V gear can be used. Rather than giving us really powerful freebies and purchased items, instead have us all on a level playing field. Perhaps make it blessed and very light in weight so we can always throw our fight suits on and switch back to our usual outfits when we aren't fighting. Obviously adjust that a lot for Siege so nobody is going around with super items which are blessed. I don't want powerful stuff, simply a more level field for newcomers and older players who simply gave up on the UO arms race.
Secondly, as a RPer I'd like to at least see that the existing factions perhaps ended up forming into these two groups or just some story which takes us from our present into the future. Rather than one day we have factions, the next it's V vs V.
Big "yes please!!" on bringing virtues into this, pulling the virtue system in would really make it interesting. My first days in Fel were all about the good guys and the bad ones and following a virtue guild as we chased thieves and PKs, would be fantastic to have that sense of purpose again. It would be excellent if you can also allow for the less virtuous to gain their own evil benefits from breaking every virtue they can think of. In fact the only down side I can think of is my evil and good characters are on the same damn account LOL. I'll happily retrain though, this just sounds frickin' incredible! Honestly, if this system can come in I will go round the UK rounding up all my old virtue guildmates and hauling them back to UO. They would just love all this stuff!
The war horses - I know some players are really fond of their pets, especially some of the older war horses that may have been hidden away over the years. Please consider letting players keep them, even if they had to be nerfed in some way. In fact, perhaps let stablemasters sell the old war horses just as normal re-hued horses so we can get like a replica horsey hehe. When pets get wiped or just stopped from spawning it makes them just gather dust in stables or they're lost from the game entirely. It would be good if other players could still use their mounts and tell the newbies how it used to be in ye old days. Make some quest up where players can take their war horse and earn the right to use it in the V vs V battle. Turning them into statues seems a bit harsh, but that's another option.
Please do keep some place in this new system for both thieves and crafters. Perhaps rather than town stones the thieves can still steal something of value to each side and have to be killed before they escape? Perhaps have this as a different type of engagement when a thief starts a challenge to "borrow" something from the other side. Or when a group is large enough for a fight, any team thieves that are eligible can be flagged as such and included in the fight. Then along with the fighting, the defending team also have to watch out for sneaky rogues borrowing their valuables. Perhaps they can steal a pretend "sack of weapons" or armour. When they manage to successfully steal that item it credits their side with points towards the better equipment. Allow crafters to perhaps replenish those supplies and create things like traps I guess. Just give everyone in Fel some part to play if possible. Heck, special treasure maps where the enemy buried some loot, same with fishing heh. It would be fantastic if you could add bits to this system so that all types of characters have more to do in Fel than collect double resources.
Just a fun thing I'd suggest, but now we won't have faction cities how about showing whether Virtue or Vice is strongest among the citizens of each city? Now that would give the RPers something to fight over if a big evil guild moved in! You love your city and there's a bunch of scum living there? It would be kinda fun if some fights could be started to improve the virtue in say Jhelom - so a mixed group of fighters from virtue and vice side fight and the winning side can make that city better or worse. With a possible implication for the NPCs in town. Say evil wins, you get an NPC poisoner in the alchemist shop who will offer you some fancy poison or poisoned weapon. If the virtue guys win, the healer might offer some special soothing salve or something. This would *sorta* replace the old faction vendors and give citizens something they might fight over. If a city is neutral perhaps a mix of NPCs is available with weaker items but ones which would suit both sides. I dunno..thinking in post here so it needs more work
A leaderboard would be fun too, it would be good to see the rankings everyone has when you start a fight, maybe even give you some points for killing the higher ranking ones. So there is a real incentive for the weaker players to try tackling a hot shot rather than abandon the fight in terror!
Congrats to anyone who reads all the above but I did get a bit too excited hehehe.
Wenchy
A few bits I'd like to say on this though.
One of the big deterrents for some of us potential/ex PvPers is lacking either funds, access to specific rare items or just the knowledge to build our own uber suits for "normal" PvP...Coupled with having the right skills and knowing how to use them, it really gives newcomers/returners a huge learning curve and effort to get started.It would be lovely if Virtue vs Vice gives us "newbs" a start point as well as a place for more experienced PvPers to fight in an environment where the fights are more balanced and where skill and tactics feature more strongly than a fancy suit and some crazy hybrid template. So what I'd ask for is that in these fights, only the designated V vs V gear can be used. Rather than giving us really powerful freebies and purchased items, instead have us all on a level playing field. Perhaps make it blessed and very light in weight so we can always throw our fight suits on and switch back to our usual outfits when we aren't fighting. Obviously adjust that a lot for Siege so nobody is going around with super items which are blessed. I don't want powerful stuff, simply a more level field for newcomers and older players who simply gave up on the UO arms race.
Secondly, as a RPer I'd like to at least see that the existing factions perhaps ended up forming into these two groups or just some story which takes us from our present into the future. Rather than one day we have factions, the next it's V vs V.
Big "yes please!!" on bringing virtues into this, pulling the virtue system in would really make it interesting. My first days in Fel were all about the good guys and the bad ones and following a virtue guild as we chased thieves and PKs, would be fantastic to have that sense of purpose again. It would be excellent if you can also allow for the less virtuous to gain their own evil benefits from breaking every virtue they can think of. In fact the only down side I can think of is my evil and good characters are on the same damn account LOL. I'll happily retrain though, this just sounds frickin' incredible! Honestly, if this system can come in I will go round the UK rounding up all my old virtue guildmates and hauling them back to UO. They would just love all this stuff!
The war horses - I know some players are really fond of their pets, especially some of the older war horses that may have been hidden away over the years. Please consider letting players keep them, even if they had to be nerfed in some way. In fact, perhaps let stablemasters sell the old war horses just as normal re-hued horses so we can get like a replica horsey hehe. When pets get wiped or just stopped from spawning it makes them just gather dust in stables or they're lost from the game entirely. It would be good if other players could still use their mounts and tell the newbies how it used to be in ye old days. Make some quest up where players can take their war horse and earn the right to use it in the V vs V battle. Turning them into statues seems a bit harsh, but that's another option.
Please do keep some place in this new system for both thieves and crafters. Perhaps rather than town stones the thieves can still steal something of value to each side and have to be killed before they escape? Perhaps have this as a different type of engagement when a thief starts a challenge to "borrow" something from the other side. Or when a group is large enough for a fight, any team thieves that are eligible can be flagged as such and included in the fight. Then along with the fighting, the defending team also have to watch out for sneaky rogues borrowing their valuables. Perhaps they can steal a pretend "sack of weapons" or armour. When they manage to successfully steal that item it credits their side with points towards the better equipment. Allow crafters to perhaps replenish those supplies and create things like traps I guess. Just give everyone in Fel some part to play if possible. Heck, special treasure maps where the enemy buried some loot, same with fishing heh. It would be fantastic if you could add bits to this system so that all types of characters have more to do in Fel than collect double resources.
Just a fun thing I'd suggest, but now we won't have faction cities how about showing whether Virtue or Vice is strongest among the citizens of each city? Now that would give the RPers something to fight over if a big evil guild moved in! You love your city and there's a bunch of scum living there? It would be kinda fun if some fights could be started to improve the virtue in say Jhelom - so a mixed group of fighters from virtue and vice side fight and the winning side can make that city better or worse. With a possible implication for the NPCs in town. Say evil wins, you get an NPC poisoner in the alchemist shop who will offer you some fancy poison or poisoned weapon. If the virtue guys win, the healer might offer some special soothing salve or something. This would *sorta* replace the old faction vendors and give citizens something they might fight over. If a city is neutral perhaps a mix of NPCs is available with weaker items but ones which would suit both sides. I dunno..thinking in post here so it needs more work
A leaderboard would be fun too, it would be good to see the rankings everyone has when you start a fight, maybe even give you some points for killing the higher ranking ones. So there is a real incentive for the weaker players to try tackling a hot shot rather than abandon the fight in terror!
Congrats to anyone who reads all the above but I did get a bit too excited hehehe.
Wenchy
The one major thing that will make/break this new system are the rewards - be it a well designed leaderboard with titles to invite players to play more OR highly wanted new artifacts.
In the era when they old faction system was at its peak, two things composed the incentive for most players....
1: Kill points (with leaderboards on uo.com) and I dont mean the flawed inflated kill points as of late.
2: Runic Weapons
Both above lead to successful team fights (capture the flag) to capture towns as well as incentives to fight any factioneer for the purpose of kill points.
This new system, could be the system that will people have been waiting for. If successful we could see many old players returning - It all depends on its popularity off course.
Recently added systems have not had enough "rewards" to appeal players i the long turn (or even mid turn).
The good design suggestions listed are:
- When resurrected in battle players will receive a “wounded” debuff that provides a damage modifier to incoming damage.
- Gear will be functionally useful in Felucca only.
- Attacking one’s own team members will result in a “Traitor” debuff that will have dire negative effects on stats and skills.
- Short term rewards as well as long term ones (Buff for conqureing a shrine as well as a better reward for conquering all shrines).
As an alternative to the following:
"If at any time a living member of the opposing team is present in the vicinity of the shrine claiming will cease."
I suggest you add a similar method of intervening through adding the same mechanism as initiating a peerless (eg Dreadhorn). Like.... You need a item (craftable preferbly and perhaps cursed) which any player need to place on the shrine to reset the "shrine claiming". This concept makes slightly more sense in my opinion and is in accordance with existing PvM systems.
Blocking off areas will be a nut to crack. Bagballs etc can be used to block large areas around the shrines as well as limiting the recall chances to the area. Perhaps ultra fast decay of items in the nearby area is one method to handle this.
In the era when they old faction system was at its peak, two things composed the incentive for most players....
1: Kill points (with leaderboards on uo.com) and I dont mean the flawed inflated kill points as of late.
2: Runic Weapons
Both above lead to successful team fights (capture the flag) to capture towns as well as incentives to fight any factioneer for the purpose of kill points.
This new system, could be the system that will people have been waiting for. If successful we could see many old players returning - It all depends on its popularity off course.
Recently added systems have not had enough "rewards" to appeal players i the long turn (or even mid turn).
The good design suggestions listed are:
- When resurrected in battle players will receive a “wounded” debuff that provides a damage modifier to incoming damage.
- Gear will be functionally useful in Felucca only.
- Attacking one’s own team members will result in a “Traitor” debuff that will have dire negative effects on stats and skills.
- Short term rewards as well as long term ones (Buff for conqureing a shrine as well as a better reward for conquering all shrines).
As an alternative to the following:
"If at any time a living member of the opposing team is present in the vicinity of the shrine claiming will cease."
I suggest you add a similar method of intervening through adding the same mechanism as initiating a peerless (eg Dreadhorn). Like.... You need a item (craftable preferbly and perhaps cursed) which any player need to place on the shrine to reset the "shrine claiming". This concept makes slightly more sense in my opinion and is in accordance with existing PvM systems.
Blocking off areas will be a nut to crack. Bagballs etc can be used to block large areas around the shrines as well as limiting the recall chances to the area. Perhaps ultra fast decay of items in the nearby area is one method to handle this.
I fail to see where your constant trolling is either helpful or beneficial.... Just what is it you are adding to this conversation? Other than being a complete Troll?
If you don't have a comment or suggestion relative to the conversation you ought to just keep your nasty BS to yourself. I for one am fed up with your constant downgrading of other posters.
Chaos/Order allowed blue fighters into tram and ilsh but kept reds in fel (where I think they belong). If that kind of gameplay could be made 13 years ago it really shouldn't be a problem now. This vice/virtue is a hybrid of the good vs evil chaos/order and factions and should be fully treated as such.
As far as EM events: simple solution would be dedicated no fight zones around the land to hold events. But i've yet to see an event that went according to plan anyway so..
FIRST OFF....... I dub Virtue / Vice System as V-V.... I'm tired of typing it!
Well MalagAste... I'd say yea Golberg does troll, but I thoroughly agree with him on this one. How much time on a given shard are EM events actually running? Maybe 1 hr / week? The ability to participate in V-V Warfare through out the full landmass HUGELY out weighs that theoretical 1 Hr / week (or even 10x that). If someone is looking to be annoying at an EM event they will find a way regardless of the Virtue / Vice System. It's simply silly to limit V-V for such a small gain. The griefers in question will find a way so I'd suggest the EM's be given appropriate tools to deal with such people.
Well MalagAste... I'd say yea Golberg does troll, but I thoroughly agree with him on this one. How much time on a given shard are EM events actually running? Maybe 1 hr / week? The ability to participate in V-V Warfare through out the full landmass HUGELY out weighs that theoretical 1 Hr / week (or even 10x that). If someone is looking to be annoying at an EM event they will find a way regardless of the Virtue / Vice System. It's simply silly to limit V-V for such a small gain. The griefers in question will find a way so I'd suggest the EM's be given appropriate tools to deal with such people.
Last edited:
Incorrect and wrong-headed, along multiple vectors.
-The EM events are the most-consistent content that we have. And content is what keeps folks interested in the game. Content, storyline, genuine interaction that means something in terms of the game's milieu. The fact that they take only a couple of hours per week on average does not diminish their importance.
-Despite the obvious fact that attending the EM events solely to get the items is a dumb idea, people it seems do it anyway. Posts here repeatedly remind me how the EM events primarily are for items, how great a way they are to make money, etc. Indeed it's normally Fel types telling me that. Let's say they are right and I'm wrong. Isn't that even more reason to not provide another tool to grief these events that folks claims are so critical to their incomes?
-The document suggests strongly that it's not the intent that the primary reward for participation (if there's another reward I've missed it), those items, effectively will be inoperable in Trammel (or highly penalized or otherwise highly inconvenient to operate). If you allow Virtue/Vice fighting in Trammel regardless of this fact, can you imagine the complaints in U-Hall when someone dies in Luna due to Virtue/Vice fighting?
-Finally, there's already sufficient tools through which players can, and do, grief EM events and grief those players who are there to actually play and interact with them. Granting players yet another tool does nothing good whatsoever.
-Galen's player
What in your experience with UO's coding makes you think it's a viable solution to have roving no fight zones. Why not just have the combat restricted to where it's meaningful (the Felucca facet), and/or to those who are into the fighting enough that they war their guilds so they can fight all the time, any time?
-Galen's player
I fail to see why you think it's perfectly acceptable for guilds to war in all areas but try to say it's not meaningful for an actual thought out designer based pvp system to be allowed in all areas when it's the exact same end concept...pvp
Why about guild wars? For starters there's no guild listing on uo.com anymore to even show what guilds actually do war. That's been dead for a few years now. Secondly there might be people interested in trying pvp out but don't want to join a guild. Lastly, there's a lot of small 2-3-4 man guilds which would make it easier for them to work with others in V-V instead of folding up and joining the larger guilds.
These are my main concerns.
How much of a damage modifier?
7 days to quit is a little long to me. 2-3 is plenty.
Dire effects on stats and skills? Explain in more detail please.
Instead of having 2 I would prefer at least 3, possibly more. I would like to see each side capped at a set percentage of the shard active population (of course that can be hard to determine so maybe a hard cap of 30 per side). Once that is full a new side will open up, but each shard will have a min. of 3.
Instead of using the shrines as battle grounds I think we should have 3-5 V/V battle grounds. The only way you can enter is if that character is in. That way there will be no interference from people not playing V/V. It would also allow the devs to create battle grounds for all types of different fights. They can make 1 zone an open field fight, they can make 1 zone a pure grinding area, they can make 1 a mixture, they can make 1 with monsters spawning, and so on. By doing this it will keep each side from being %100 mages or %100 dexers. They could be it they want, but if a 100% mage side goes to an open field battle it will be a LOT harder than having a balance.
When it comes to V/V vendors they need to be something useful. How about letting players buy imbuing ingreds from the vendors. That is just as important as ingot were when faction vendors came out.
Instead of using the shrines as battle grounds I think we should have 3-5 V/V battle grounds. The only way you can enter is if that character is in. That way there will be no interference from people not playing V/V. It would also allow the devs to create battle grounds for all types of different fights. They can make 1 zone an open field fight, they can make 1 zone a pure grinding area, they can make 1 a mixture, they can make 1 with monsters spawning, and so on. By doing this it will keep each side from being %100 mages or %100 dexers. They could be it they want, but if a 100% mage side goes to an open field battle it will be a LOT harder than having a balance.
When it comes to V/V vendors they need to be something useful. How about letting players buy imbuing ingreds from the vendors. That is just as important as ingot were when faction vendors came out.
Have people been passing this information on to old friends (and respected enemies) that are known faction diehards? It isn't posted on the UO.com website at all, so if any of those people are still periodically checking there to see what's going on, they may completely miss the opportunity to find out what may be coming and to add their input, if they want to.
Below are some of the people whom I know were very much into factions in the past that I don't think play UO anymore. I'm sure that there are many more of those old faction diehards that you all know of too. I've fired off messages in ICQ to a few of them that I think might still check ICQ occasionally, but either don't have ICQ numbers to contact the rest of them or don't think they use it anymore.
If you are aware of another way to contact these particular people or others that you believe might be interested in this topic, maybe you could send them the link to this thread so they can at least read about what's going on? If they don't have a Stratics account or have been banned from Stratics, don't forget to remind them that they can also e-mail their feedback to Mesanna. Thanks.
(Sorry, I just really miss some of those people and am very discouraged at the thought of all that fun history and reminders of that history just going *poof* overnight. Oh well. Life moves on.)
Below are some of the people whom I know were very much into factions in the past that I don't think play UO anymore. I'm sure that there are many more of those old faction diehards that you all know of too. I've fired off messages in ICQ to a few of them that I think might still check ICQ occasionally, but either don't have ICQ numbers to contact the rest of them or don't think they use it anymore.
If you are aware of another way to contact these particular people or others that you believe might be interested in this topic, maybe you could send them the link to this thread so they can at least read about what's going on? If they don't have a Stratics account or have been banned from Stratics, don't forget to remind them that they can also e-mail their feedback to Mesanna. Thanks.
- Da Trav, Joy, AgentSmith, Eggie, Rash, Omni, Darma, Silk from KDL (Napa and other shards).
- Dig, Talos, Gilthas/Sadden from Baja.
- Nonel Topd, Arabella, Tink, Berethrain, Anthius Disius (aka Cardell), Papa Smurf, Lynk from Great Lakes. (Lore Denin's aware of this.)
- JC the Builder from Atlantic.
- Raptor, Nightstalker, Righty, Kat from Siege.
- Viquire from Origin.
(Sorry, I just really miss some of those people and am very discouraged at the thought of all that fun history and reminders of that history just going *poof* overnight. Oh well. Life moves on.)
Last edited:
The issue is the use of the Virtue/Vice system to interfere at EM events.
You proposed that there should be some kind of roving no-PvP zone for the events, and that Virtue/Vice combat should otherwise be allowed throughout the facets.
I suggested, correctly, that there's little in our experience with the game that would suggest the code is capable of supporting what you proposed. (Perhaps I erred in phrasing it as a question, asking you what in your experience made you think that such a thing was possible. Too subtle for U Hall, I suppose?)
Now you turn around and ask me about a separate issue: The relative worth or efficacy of a guild war-based PvP system or a PvP system rooted in the Virtue/Vice proposal currently before us.
Apples and oranges.
Now, this wasn't what you said, or even suggested, but someone else could point out, "if the Virtue/Vice system can be used to interfere or grief, then surely guild wars, which currently are allowed, can also be used to interfere or grief." My response to that is that I think, based on experience, that guild wars type systems and big groupings type systems seem to be of a different character, with the guild wars type system being closer to "let's fight RIGHT NOW." As opposed to an ongoing conflict where fights can erupt spontaneously.
But, again, you didn't raise that issue: You just sought to redirect my response to your non-viable roving no-PvP zone proposal.
-Galen's player
Don't take a vice and virtue character to a EM event?
To Legendsguy :- I respect your opinion but i do not want to have to go to trammel at all but I'm forced too because the items i require for pvp are much more powerful than what i can get in Fel. (Slither, Tangle, Despicable Quivers, Unicorn sandals, and many others)
The current arties do not seriously overpower any factioner infact reforging and the new items have made most of us in the know have removed the faction arties in favor of the more powerful items. So as long as they are sensible this should not cause problems.
PvP should be the highest possible form of game play and so the system must support this but it must also encourage new players so they may experience and more importantly improve and progress.
To Chessy :- i believe mervyn was talking about in the battle areas anyone who isnt V - V shouldn't be able to influence the battle in any way. Also outside of the battles for the shrines it shouldn't take one hit from the other virtue / vice and the rest of the hits from blues or reds to put you into wounded mode. I believe if 70 - 80% of the damage is done by the opposite wounded should be added on death.
To Legendsguy :- I respect your opinion but i do not want to have to go to trammel at all but I'm forced too because the items i require for pvp are much more powerful than what i can get in Fel. (Slither, Tangle, Despicable Quivers, Unicorn sandals, and many others)
The current arties do not seriously overpower any factioner infact reforging and the new items have made most of us in the know have removed the faction arties in favor of the more powerful items. So as long as they are sensible this should not cause problems.
PvP should be the highest possible form of game play and so the system must support this but it must also encourage new players so they may experience and more importantly improve and progress.
To Chessy :- i believe mervyn was talking about in the battle areas anyone who isnt V - V shouldn't be able to influence the battle in any way. Also outside of the battles for the shrines it shouldn't take one hit from the other virtue / vice and the rest of the hits from blues or reds to put you into wounded mode. I believe if 70 - 80% of the damage is done by the opposite wounded should be added on death.
This only works if everyone does it.
The issue is not, and has never been, "I will be interfered with at an EM event."
The issue is "the event will be interfered with by fights breaking out."
This already happens with intra-guild fights. Why give yet another opportunity for it.
Standard response one: Why does this logic does not also apply when Power Scrolls are the item at issue? If a Trammel player is not "forced" to go to Felucca to get a 120 power scroll then how are you "forced" to go to Trammel to get a Despicable Quiver? I've been insulted many-a-time by Fel players for making the exact same argument that you just made, but in reverse.
My other standard responses to this issue are of little use in this discussion.
Matter of perspective, I suppose.
And they say RPers are pompous. lol
The notion that outside forces shouldn't be allowed to influence the battle is laughable to me. What's the response when people complain about "outside forces" "influencing," say, champion spawns.
"This is Fel, deal with it."
Same response. I used to snipe Shadowlords Reds a lot on GL. Back when a TB guild pissed me off on LS, I used to snipe their reds too. I have great memories of this.
-Galen's player
LoL is my intial response......
Consistent Content??? How can something that exists not even 1% of the time be called consistent content? Why would you even bother playing a game where 99% of the time your playing it DOESN'T "Mean something". I'd say that the everyday battles / stories / conflicts etc are what give a shard is flavor and history, NOT the minimal or small # of people that can or do participate in EM events. You really can't argue that EM events are more important bc we all know that if EM events didn't exist people would still be playing but if EVERYTHING else went. It's silly to limit V/V to fel only. If they want the system to be successful then open it up to tram rule set because when people can't find PvP in Fel they log off their PVPer and go do stuff in tram. If you could access the tram content and still have PvP that's MUCH better.
Again LoL.... Anyone that would be in the V/V system wouldn't call PvP at an EM event "Grief". I'd actually bet that would be their favorite part about an EM event. Story line driven PvP as opposed to just fighting over a spawn or just for entertainment.
I will agree that the "Faction Items" being severely downgraded for Tram Ruleset suggests they didn't intend the V/V system there, but I'm almost positive that's simply a Risk vs Reward balance. If by being in V/V and using "Faction Items" in Tram you were actually RISKING being attacked in Tram Ruleset I see no reason why the items shouldn't function there.
TBH, only the staff knows what CAN and cannot be done in this game. You know as much about UO coding as I or anyone else on here that isn't official staff. I offered a suggestion on what would boost my gaming experience without harming anyone. I actually never said roving areas. I suggested dedicated which would be stationary perma no fight zones whether it be 10 spots or 100.
Doubt I'll ever be a PvPer so not really qualified to comment on fighting mechanics in any detail, but two thoughts on the post by Messana -
Making anything based around overly powerful items you get by participating tends to mean whatever system you make gets abandoned before too long because the items become either too abundant, or are overtaken by new items you bring in as attractions to the next and subsequent 'new thing' in the game, which in turn becomes abandoned when the next one arrives... Non-tangible stuff like titles, leaderboards, scores, fame and reputation rarely become stale though, especially among a group who are by definition competitive. If possible play down items as part of this, and play up the other 'rewards', or you risk the same as crept in to factions, some people joined them purely for the artifacts and never actually 'played factions' to any noticeable degree, or to some of the revamped dungeons - played to death for a short while, then hardly ever visited. Things that relate to the activity in PvP and require consistently good performance at it will work better in the long run than any new shiny toys...
There's still scope for items as part of the new PvP system - PJay's point makes perfect sense to me, when PvP has a strong item-derived component, making people only be able to get those items for themselves in the mainly non-PvP facet is at best silly. Moonbound/time-based or whatever versions of existing top end artifacts being available through the new Vice and Virtue system may be an option (though it still means the 'indestructable' and thus more desirable versions are Trammel sourced, which is not ideal).... just not adding NEW, super-powered stuff in there as well, unless it is also introduced as part of a different 'new dungeon/new quest' or whatever - and then make a copy of any of those new items part of the possible Vice and Virtue item list too, with those 'limiting' properties..
"4. Town stones and faction bases will be removed."
Stones, OK but bases - why? They do no noticable harm, and could be used by RPers or EMs very easily. Nothing seems to be 'lost' by keeping them as terrain features.
Making anything based around overly powerful items you get by participating tends to mean whatever system you make gets abandoned before too long because the items become either too abundant, or are overtaken by new items you bring in as attractions to the next and subsequent 'new thing' in the game, which in turn becomes abandoned when the next one arrives... Non-tangible stuff like titles, leaderboards, scores, fame and reputation rarely become stale though, especially among a group who are by definition competitive. If possible play down items as part of this, and play up the other 'rewards', or you risk the same as crept in to factions, some people joined them purely for the artifacts and never actually 'played factions' to any noticeable degree, or to some of the revamped dungeons - played to death for a short while, then hardly ever visited. Things that relate to the activity in PvP and require consistently good performance at it will work better in the long run than any new shiny toys...
There's still scope for items as part of the new PvP system - PJay's point makes perfect sense to me, when PvP has a strong item-derived component, making people only be able to get those items for themselves in the mainly non-PvP facet is at best silly. Moonbound/time-based or whatever versions of existing top end artifacts being available through the new Vice and Virtue system may be an option (though it still means the 'indestructable' and thus more desirable versions are Trammel sourced, which is not ideal).... just not adding NEW, super-powered stuff in there as well, unless it is also introduced as part of a different 'new dungeon/new quest' or whatever - and then make a copy of any of those new items part of the possible Vice and Virtue item list too, with those 'limiting' properties..
"4. Town stones and faction bases will be removed."
Stones, OK but bases - why? They do no noticable harm, and could be used by RPers or EMs very easily. Nothing seems to be 'lost' by keeping them as terrain features.
Last edited:
I know some people will disagree with me on this. Perhaps quite a few. However, I'm discouraged at seeing the continuation of something like faction artifacts, especially after this last year when people who have stuck around in factions have probably given up on them and replaced their faction gear with non-faction gear.
Maybe I'm terribly naive, but it's seemed to me that the introduction of faction artifacts pretty much took away some of the balance that used to exist between PvPers and non-PvPers. PvPers provided the power and stat scrolls and, in many cases, relied on non-PvPers to do high-end crafting and to do PvM hunting in places like Doom and Ilshenar for artifacts and high-end loot. I understand that some PvMers abused the faction artifacts by getting them and using them almost entirely in Trammel. But a great many did not and a great many who did not also quit playing because no one really needed them anymore.
I really wish we weren't going this route, if it means that PvPers will still have little to no reason to rely on non-PvPers. I think that situation has just fostered even more resentment from non-PvPers for PvPers. If we have to go with this new system, I'd much rather see everyone use it as an opportunity to try to restore some balance between Trammel and Felucca and provide good reasons for each "side" to need the other, rather than just continuing on down a road where both rulesets can't abide each other and have few reasons to try to help each other continue playing UO.
That's all I have to say. Probably a dumb wish and only workable if EA, out of the goodness of their heart and with a desire to try to restore the population on some of the decimated shards, would allow free one-time-only transfers of previously transferred characters back to their home shards. Let you take your PvPers and money-maker characters from Atlantic back to their "true homes." Not gonna happen, I know, but I guess I can dream.
Maybe I'm terribly naive, but it's seemed to me that the introduction of faction artifacts pretty much took away some of the balance that used to exist between PvPers and non-PvPers. PvPers provided the power and stat scrolls and, in many cases, relied on non-PvPers to do high-end crafting and to do PvM hunting in places like Doom and Ilshenar for artifacts and high-end loot. I understand that some PvMers abused the faction artifacts by getting them and using them almost entirely in Trammel. But a great many did not and a great many who did not also quit playing because no one really needed them anymore.
I really wish we weren't going this route, if it means that PvPers will still have little to no reason to rely on non-PvPers. I think that situation has just fostered even more resentment from non-PvPers for PvPers. If we have to go with this new system, I'd much rather see everyone use it as an opportunity to try to restore some balance between Trammel and Felucca and provide good reasons for each "side" to need the other, rather than just continuing on down a road where both rulesets can't abide each other and have few reasons to try to help each other continue playing UO.
That's all I have to say. Probably a dumb wish and only workable if EA, out of the goodness of their heart and with a desire to try to restore the population on some of the decimated shards, would allow free one-time-only transfers of previously transferred characters back to their home shards. Let you take your PvPers and money-maker characters from Atlantic back to their "true homes." Not gonna happen, I know, but I guess I can dream.
Galen that was my point i don't want to goto fel but i have to go if i want the items same for stat scrolls and power scrolls the reason i say forced is because i can rarely find anything i want on vendors or people selling them (who are all in trammel).
It will always be tit for tat.
PvP will always be the highest form of gameplay because its unpredictable. Human beings as design are unpredictable. NPC's (Mobs) are coded to do X Y and Z and unless it is changed it will not deviate. This means you can negate all the moves it does and pretty much avoid any offense it can do thus little risk for reward.
This system will mean anyone within the V - V (to coin Vexxed's name) will be called to the same spot in fel to fight this can only be a good thing! Ive often wondered why factions didn't spam on the faction chat that a sigil had been stolen it may have made town fighting possible im not sure but if you knew it had been stolen you would know a factioner was around!
If the bases do stay they cannot just be left in their current state and will have to be populated. Add something for the RPers?
I think players should loose their mounts but the horses retained at the bases for historic reference why? because i think many people will just sell the horses for huge amounts of money even if nerfed there will be scams in place. Also non V - V Characters would have access to a mount as strong as a V - V mount (assuming they will be the same) which isnt their privileged and never has been. If people see this as being unfair maybe horses should be beefed up to be the same stats and skill as the V - V horse.
Gifts to commemorate Factions NO! People will only sign up to factions to get the item even though they never participated please do not waste your time. Spend your time making a robust system which cannot be manipulated by a few to spoil it for the rest. Reading the ideas so far shows me you are on the right path and with a few tweaks you may restore my faith in you.
It will always be tit for tat.
PvP will always be the highest form of gameplay because its unpredictable. Human beings as design are unpredictable. NPC's (Mobs) are coded to do X Y and Z and unless it is changed it will not deviate. This means you can negate all the moves it does and pretty much avoid any offense it can do thus little risk for reward.
This system will mean anyone within the V - V (to coin Vexxed's name) will be called to the same spot in fel to fight this can only be a good thing! Ive often wondered why factions didn't spam on the faction chat that a sigil had been stolen it may have made town fighting possible im not sure but if you knew it had been stolen you would know a factioner was around!
If the bases do stay they cannot just be left in their current state and will have to be populated. Add something for the RPers?
I think players should loose their mounts but the horses retained at the bases for historic reference why? because i think many people will just sell the horses for huge amounts of money even if nerfed there will be scams in place. Also non V - V Characters would have access to a mount as strong as a V - V mount (assuming they will be the same) which isnt their privileged and never has been. If people see this as being unfair maybe horses should be beefed up to be the same stats and skill as the V - V horse.
Gifts to commemorate Factions NO! People will only sign up to factions to get the item even though they never participated please do not waste your time. Spend your time making a robust system which cannot be manipulated by a few to spoil it for the rest. Reading the ideas so far shows me you are on the right path and with a few tweaks you may restore my faith in you.
I completely agree. Pvp should not be about what one can get from it. It should be the enjoyment of aspiring to be the best which is also hard to do with such cookie cutter templates and restrictions.
I understand your thoughts here but if they kept the faction artifacts we had now and didn't add anymore they do not make a suit. I hope they do not go crazy and add tons of new items because currently i have 1 faction artifact and the rest is crafted apart from the arties from trammel. With the new reforging and items in cove / shame crafters are essential to pvpers, and even when they were first added we still required pieces for a suit pots apples etc etc.
Its a myth faction arties destroyed crafting farming from doom then maybe so.
Last edited:
I have removed some unconstructive posts, can I please appeal to people to stay on topic, don't get sidetracked into other issues and most of all, please be constructive.
Ok.. So.. Wow..
You're going to replace one of the best open world pvp systems with what pretty much amounts to a domination death match?
Bye thieves.. go steal from monsters. That's pretty much all you got left.
2 Sides? What? 4 factions was fine. The problem was never too many factions its not enough people (among many other things). You're going to be putting a lot of people onto teams with people who absolutely hate each other. Lot of griefing incoming. Good luck with that.
Why move the fights from towns where you can strategically use buildings and bases to your advantage and make fights more interesting? It is undeniable that there is a chasm between people who are new to pvp and long time pvp veterans. The only thing people have to fight against better pvpers is tactics and you can't really use that many tactics when you are forced into an open field fight. This will just remove all new players from the system and just make it that much harder to get some new blood involved in pvp. In the old system you could always baby people into the pvp by giving them roles and letting them experience the sieges.
Faction horses getting removed? What? Are you serious? I had the same pre-patch green war horse since the first week of factions and you're taking that away from me? Are you kidding? WOW!
Promoting multiple shard factions instead of more consistant and populated pvp on all shards?
I can't believe you are getting rid of some of the best times of the faction experience... The sieges, the stealthing past defenders with your thief, the fighting through out Brit.
I'm sorry but I think you're just listening to the wrong people for feedback and you devs are just so far out of touch with the pvp side of the game. It's a shame because the old UO is still the standard pvp games are held to these days and you've strayed so far from it.
Can I just make a suggestion. In an effort to get on the same page as the devs. Can the devs please list the top 10 issues/problems the factions have from their perspective. I think if we can get this information from you we can move forward with a very constructive discussion on how to fix the factions with out scrapping them... The system itself is incredible and it really pains me to see you take it away. Since factions came out 98% of my time in-game was dealing with factions and I really really just don't undetstand how the state of the factions have gotten to this point.. It still has so much potential. It just needs people who know about it to help fix it. And I'm sorry to say, the people who are helping you make these decisions are just way off. The system you are designing will not work. It has grief written all over it.
~Anthius Disius - e-GO
Chessy, ATL, GL
You're going to replace one of the best open world pvp systems with what pretty much amounts to a domination death match?
Bye thieves.. go steal from monsters. That's pretty much all you got left.
2 Sides? What? 4 factions was fine. The problem was never too many factions its not enough people (among many other things). You're going to be putting a lot of people onto teams with people who absolutely hate each other. Lot of griefing incoming. Good luck with that.
Why move the fights from towns where you can strategically use buildings and bases to your advantage and make fights more interesting? It is undeniable that there is a chasm between people who are new to pvp and long time pvp veterans. The only thing people have to fight against better pvpers is tactics and you can't really use that many tactics when you are forced into an open field fight. This will just remove all new players from the system and just make it that much harder to get some new blood involved in pvp. In the old system you could always baby people into the pvp by giving them roles and letting them experience the sieges.
Faction horses getting removed? What? Are you serious? I had the same pre-patch green war horse since the first week of factions and you're taking that away from me? Are you kidding? WOW!
Promoting multiple shard factions instead of more consistant and populated pvp on all shards?
I can't believe you are getting rid of some of the best times of the faction experience... The sieges, the stealthing past defenders with your thief, the fighting through out Brit.
I'm sorry but I think you're just listening to the wrong people for feedback and you devs are just so far out of touch with the pvp side of the game. It's a shame because the old UO is still the standard pvp games are held to these days and you've strayed so far from it.
Can I just make a suggestion. In an effort to get on the same page as the devs. Can the devs please list the top 10 issues/problems the factions have from their perspective. I think if we can get this information from you we can move forward with a very constructive discussion on how to fix the factions with out scrapping them... The system itself is incredible and it really pains me to see you take it away. Since factions came out 98% of my time in-game was dealing with factions and I really really just don't undetstand how the state of the factions have gotten to this point.. It still has so much potential. It just needs people who know about it to help fix it. And I'm sorry to say, the people who are helping you make these decisions are just way off. The system you are designing will not work. It has grief written all over it.
~Anthius Disius - e-GO
Chessy, ATL, GL
Last edited:
You really think that after all this hard thinking they are just going to change?
Below is a list of the currently available faction artifacts and consumables. Maybe it would help Kyronix in designing the new system (or revamping the existing one) to know which of these absolutely have to continue to be readily and/or cheaply available in some form (perhaps both in Fel and in Trammel) and why it is not possible to acquire in some way with a reasonable, non-excessive amount of gold or effort a good craftable or farmable substitute for them (i.e., what stops craftable or farmable potential substitutes or combinations of substitutes from always falling short of the faction version):
Or maybe all you would get when you join the VV system is a set of "bare bones" high-resist armor that's either meddable or nonmeddable in your choice of materials; doesn't need to be worn as a full set to have respectable resists; is easily alterable for race; can be imbued or enhanced (maybe with a little more wiggle room for imbuing and slightly smaller chance for breaking with enhancing); and is easy to mix and match with other gear you already have, craft, or buy from other players. And if they're going for a color scheme per side, make available cheap dyes you can use only if you're on a particular side to dye your other stuff and cheap bleaches to use when you get out (or the stuff just reverts to its pre-dye color when you leave the VV system, which I think has been said to be impossible to code, so probably not a realistic request).
Then without gear being an incentive to join VV, the dev team could focus on providing other more meaningful rewards for participating in the system, specifically rewards that reward a character for staying in Felucca and interacting with other players there and the rewards wouldn't throw what's left of the game's fragile economy into another tailspin.
I really just want to see the idea of faction artifacts go away, while also putting in some new or improved ways for people who really do want to just PvP be able to get decent gear with reasonable effort and then to get even better gear later by interacting with other players throughout the game. Put in something that perks up PvP and also boosts the economy as a whole, instead of just providing more reasons for people who don't want to be in the system to feel like whatever they can contribute to their shard as a community has little value or meaning.
- A Primer on Arms Removal that has 10% HCI.
- Clainin's Spellbook with 10% LMC.
- Crimson Cincture with +5 Dexterity.
- Crystalline Ring with FCR 3.
- Fey Leggings with 15/11/10/4/22 resists.
- Folded Steel Reading Glasses with 10% DCI.
- Heart of the Lion with 20/15/15/15/15 resists.
- Hunter's Headdress with 10/10/15/10/10 resists.
- Kasa of the Raj-In with 10% DCI.
- Mace and Shield Reading Glasses with 10% DI.
- Order Shield - Museum of Vesper Replica with no -1 Faster Casting.
- Ornament of the Magician with MR 3.
- Ring of the Vile with 10% HCI.
- Rune Beetle Carapace with 8/6/17/6/17 resists.
- Spirit of the Totem with 20/10/10/10/10 resists.
- Stormgrip with 10% HCI.
- Inquisitor's Resolution with 10/10/20/10/10 resists.
- Tome of Lost Knowledge with MR 3.
- Wizard's Crystal Reading Glasses with 10/10/10/10/10 resists.
- Shrine Gem that offers to teleport a dead character to a random shrine.
- Supernova Potions that inflict fire damage on other characters within a 5-tile radius, with increased damage based on Alchemy skill and equipped EP items.
- Greater Stamina Potions that restore 100 stamina over 5 seconds.
- Enchanted Bandages that lift curses like Enchanted Apples.
- Powder of Perseverance that resets an item's durability while simultaneously decreasing its total durability.
- Morph Earrings that let human characters wear elf only armor and clothing.
Or maybe all you would get when you join the VV system is a set of "bare bones" high-resist armor that's either meddable or nonmeddable in your choice of materials; doesn't need to be worn as a full set to have respectable resists; is easily alterable for race; can be imbued or enhanced (maybe with a little more wiggle room for imbuing and slightly smaller chance for breaking with enhancing); and is easy to mix and match with other gear you already have, craft, or buy from other players. And if they're going for a color scheme per side, make available cheap dyes you can use only if you're on a particular side to dye your other stuff and cheap bleaches to use when you get out (or the stuff just reverts to its pre-dye color when you leave the VV system, which I think has been said to be impossible to code, so probably not a realistic request).
Then without gear being an incentive to join VV, the dev team could focus on providing other more meaningful rewards for participating in the system, specifically rewards that reward a character for staying in Felucca and interacting with other players there and the rewards wouldn't throw what's left of the game's fragile economy into another tailspin.
I really just want to see the idea of faction artifacts go away, while also putting in some new or improved ways for people who really do want to just PvP be able to get decent gear with reasonable effort and then to get even better gear later by interacting with other players throughout the game. Put in something that perks up PvP and also boosts the economy as a whole, instead of just providing more reasons for people who don't want to be in the system to feel like whatever they can contribute to their shard as a community has little value or meaning.
Last edited:
I think in order to make the factions worth participating in you need to evaluate the rewards. Looking at the list above every one of those rewards takes something away from another part of the game. Crafting, pve, what ever.. If people are getting potions or armor from factions they aren't getting from somewhere else. I think they should go back to the basics of the faction rewards (vendors) and change what you can get out of the vendors that you can place in towns. I think it would attract crafters and promote crafting armor in factions if you can buy the rare materials, ingots and wood from the faction vendors using silver AND (not or) gold. In moderation of course. There should be set amount of the resources available via faction vendors per day and the only people who can buy from those vendors are people who have accounts aligned with the faction that owns the towns.
So to answer Tina. I think you should scrap all those armor, weapons and potions and make rare mats obtainable through the faction vendors. They could offer buffs for crafting in factions and scrap that duration garbage on faction items. That just makes things way to inconvenient for people who play casually.
Why on earth do we need a new addition to crafting to make it even more complicated. If you can show me a pvper who dosnt have crafted armor i will like your post....
I will warn you now DO NOT make this system complicated if you do it will fail.
I will warn you now DO NOT make this system complicated if you do it will fail.
Quick thoughts
- Allow us to retain faction warhorses somehow (deleting isn't cool)
- Allow us a way to redeem/alter existing faction robes)and make them usable as replicas (like the robes, so we can wear them), as well as turn in old faction items if you insist on adding a NEW item system for Virtue vs. Vice
- Just call Virtue vs. Vice "Order vs. Chaos"
-Yay on new 1v1 system with Covetous-like mechanics!
BTW, is there a legal reason why you guys can't just call it Order vs. Chaos? lol...I mean, I understand you are basing it on virtues and all, but still.
.
should be left for historic purposes
.
- Allow us to retain faction warhorses somehow (deleting isn't cool)
- Allow us a way to redeem/alter existing faction robes)and make them usable as replicas (like the robes, so we can wear them), as well as turn in old faction items if you insist on adding a NEW item system for Virtue vs. Vice
- Just call Virtue vs. Vice "Order vs. Chaos"
-Yay on new 1v1 system with Covetous-like mechanics!
I don't like this goal. The item incentive was a large part of what made the factions system flawed. The item incentives cheapen the system, in my opinion, because people join just for items and the items give those who don't join too much of a penalty. It also kills the sandbox because people look for cookie cutter templates based on items.
Yay. I like this part because it gives a story tie-in which is controlled by the players' narrative, unlike the factions, which were not maintained through in-game RP.
Cool. But there needs to be a way to keep the old mounts.
BTW, is there a legal reason why you guys can't just call it Order vs. Chaos? lol...I mean, I understand you are basing it on virtues and all, but still
.Love it. Sounds like a great compromise and a use of the Covetous system.
I like, but what is the reward, and how do players benefit? Eight battles would be a grind. Would the incentive be global, timely, would you have to had participated in all fights? Etc.
This change is good, especially the "Traitor" debuff. I'd like to see harsher penalties for consistent abuse within a given time period!
I hope soQ: Are there plans for the designers/developers and the EMs to create special events built around Virtue & Vice?
A: Not at this time, but you never know
.Aww...the strongholds will be removed?
should be left for historic purposesBOOOOO! Please do not remove our pets
.
Last edited:
lol indeed.
You appear to be confusing two different concepts. Consistent, and persistent. EM events are not persistent, by definition, but they are consistent.
Here are some helpful links.
Consistent: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consistent
Note the second definition.
Persistent: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/persistent
The latter, especially in its implication of "continuous," appears to be what you incorrectly thought I meant by "consistent."
Persistent. Consistent.
I at no points said or implied that anything other than EM events meant nothing; you're making that up. The rest of this paragraph was too full of incoherent rage to follow, so I did not quote it.
Not sure what you mean here. I really seriously doubt many EM events will have much to do with the system.
At any rate, I rather plainly wasn't concerned with a participant in the system being attacked, because they have made their own choices.
Rather I was concerned with the other players who did not choose to participate in that system having important events disrupted.
It's interesting, and telling, how many people who wish to participate in this system saw Malag's words and my words and assumed that we were referring to them, rather than to the other players they appear to wish to disrupt.
-Galen's player
A lot of people who were late-comers to Factions, and who used it as an excuse to get items and to fight and did not care about the RP aspects or more-tactical/strategic aspects, have been allowed by longer-term Factioners such as yourself to dominate the discussions.
While so many people were concerned with the essentially mythical problem of "Trammies" who wore the artifacts in Trammel and ignored Fel, the real issue, as I'd stated repeatedly, was people who joined Factions for the l33t items and an excuse to fight.
The new system caters to those people -- the inevitable product of those folks being allowed to dominate the discussion.
It will work well enough for them, and I suspect strongly that this'll be done and probably be somewhat successful.
As to those such as yourself who were into the more all-encompassing and strategic sense of Factions, and such as myself, who was into the RP aspects of Factions......
Oh well.
-Galen's player
Last edited: