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I know why UO is Dying!

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Slayvite

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OK so a quick search on UTube for vids to explain how I do a samphire and I come across this "other game?"
I click the link and now I know why we never get anybody new and why people are leaving.....
*removed links as I've been told off* :p

What the actual f**k!!!!!!!!
Why are Broadsword and EA not all over these "free shards" ???
Does UO not have a copyright any longer?? those free shards are far from "basic" now and even doing expansions.
I'd love @Mesanna to let us know how our investment in this game is safe when they do nothing to bring free copycat versions down.

Explain why anybody looking at this game would pay to play this version when they can go play a free version instead??
 
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DJAd

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There have been free shards for years mate. There are even more popular ones than the one you originally mentioned.
 
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Gorath

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Yeah this isn't anything new.

Isn't there free WoW shards too?

I always thought it was silly that EA never entertained doing a shard that was only updated to certain points like a pre-AoS shard or a game only updated to T2A. You could probably delete 1-5 of the DEAD shards.

Although as I recall, I think it was stated around here they lost the source code (and didn't have back ups for some reason?) therefore it is impossible.
 

Slayvite

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There have been free shards for years mate. There are even more popular ones than uoforever!!
yup, and the more they are allowed to grow and get established, the more it weakens the official UO.
Personally i'd be using this as evidence in court against EA and go for a hostile takeover of the UO branding.......only in America could you even takeover something this way.. ;)
 

DJAd

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Personally i'd be using this as evidence in court against EA and go for a hostile takeover of the UO branding.......only in America could you even takeover something this way.. [bcolor=rgb(204, 205, 205)];)[/bcolor]
I'm sure they could take them all down and also the 3rd party gold selling websites at the same time. I don't understand why they don't. I'm sure EA has a legal team.

The only thing I remember Mesanna saying about freeshards is that they stole all the hard work from UO.
 

Slayvite

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I knew they existed but I never thought they were this complex. Full expansion packs and extra.....some look like they actually have "more" than we have.
Although I don't know how because stuff like basements aren't possible...."they" told us so. ;)
...just like the bigger play screens were not possible. :gee:
 
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railshot

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Going after freeshards would require a bigger budget in legal fees than BS is spending on development now. So it's not going to happen.
 

Slayvite

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Going after freeshards would require a bigger budget in legal fees than BS is spending on development now. So it's not going to happen.
Surely it would be EA that go after them though since EA own the Intellectual property.
I would also think EA would have been all over this as to deter others from doing it to other EA titles in the future.
Nothing stops somebody setting up a free shard like a lawsuit for millions $ ;)
 

Merlin

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They should've done this years ago, but it's probably too late now.

The legal fees to retain a lawyer and then go after all of these various free sharders probably wouldn't be cheap. It's highly doubtful that Broadsword would get anything out of it. They would pay the lawyers to sue these guys... and then when these guys see a million dollar lawsuit, they fold up because they don't have the ability to pay for damages. In some cases, the servers/assets are probably offshore and out of jurisdiction of US courts, which would make it even more costly to track down and fight. It's not like Broadsword is going to be receiving some million dollar reward in damages.

These free shards are not as popular as they promote themselves to be and the people who play them wouldn't all come running back to OSI just because they lost their free shard. In short, at the end of the day it's a net loss to Broadsword to pay these lawyers. I see no reasonable way they recoup enough revenues out of going after those free shards to make it worth while to pay the lawyers.
 

Poo

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years ago.... and im talking a LONG time ago i remember there was something you could do and you could run your own shard.
i did it for a bit, it was fun, but with only a couple guild mates it got boring fast.

i recall going to one of the free shards once and playing, and keep in mind this was back in like 1999 or 2000 and they had sooooo much more stuff than UO had back then, they had like Witches and different monsters and such.
it was pretty cool.
but again back then their populations where so small compared to the real UO.

hell, there was a time that even talking about those free shards got you banned from Stratics, haha, im paranoid just being in this thread right now talking about this!!!!
 

Uvtha

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OK so a quick search on UTube for vids to explain how I do a samphire and I come across this "other game?"
I click the link and now I know why we never get anybody new and why people are leaving.....
*removed links as I've been told off* :p

What the actual f**k!!!!!!!!
Why are Broadsword and EA not all over these "free shards" ???
Does UO not have a copyright any longer?? those free shards are far from "basic" now and even doing expansions.
I'd love @Mesanna to let us know how our investment in this game is safe when they do nothing to bring free copycat versions down.

Explain why anybody looking at this game would pay to play this version when they can go play a free version instead??
I highly doubt closing every freeshard would have any noticeable impact. They are pretty much all custom rule sets and aside from being free (which of course is the main drawing factor here) they offer something official UO doesn't.

Many of those people are people who left regular UO because they didn't like the direction the development took. Closing their shards down won't make them change their mind.

I don't get why "UO is a 20 year old game and looks like it" isn't an acceptable reason for why the game is not more popular. Because That is the real reason.
 

railshot

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Broadsword should consider contracting the services of some of the freeshard programmers, tbh.
They should hire Pinko to continue working on UI too, but they are very um frugal with their budget.
 

MalagAste

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Free shards have been around a long time but even they are in-fact a dying breed... While there are a few that are still going strong even their support sites and such are dying out... Most likely because the old player base is dying out... and/or growing bored or growing families and don't have time for it anymore.

Free Shards can be fun and entertaining if you are a "god" on them... otherwise you are at the whim and mercy of whomever is in charge of them and they can shut down unexpectedly for any number of reasons and they do. People get bored running them and close them all the time.

At this point trying to close them all down is about like making Power Scrolls shard bound... too little too late and would only serve to further destroy UO.

As others have said most of the people playing there would never return to real UO... they left for good reason most of them. Either because they could never get past AoS... or they couldn't stand not being able to kill everyone they saw all the time... or they simply don't want to pay... or they wanted to be "King"... or whatever the reason... there are many... some got tired of dealing with cheaters/hackers/scammers etc... whatever the reason they left they won't come back even if they did shut them down.

I've always wondered why though EA doesn't close down sites that make profits off of UO... all the sales sites... THOSE take revenue from EA/UO directly... selling everything from duped items, to scammed items and tons of things from botted items... but rumor has it that people in high places actually created stuff for those sites and possibly make a profit from them... so perhaps that's the reasoning.
 

The Craftsman

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They should hire Pinko to continue working on UI too, but they are very um frugal with their budget.
And who can blame them? They are on a contract to service UO on whatever deal they signed with EA, more than likely as subcontractors. They are just the hired help. Hiring more staff would only eat into whatever profit margin they have.
 

railshot

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And who can blame them? They are on a contract to service UO on whatever deal they signed with EA, more than likely as subcontractors. They are just the hired help. Hiring more staff would only eat into whatever profit margin they have.
See, I think that majority of MMO companies make a huge mistake in not re-investing enough capital into their games to keep them current. I don't like playing new just released MMOs because almost all of them a re bug ridden imbalanced messes with relatively little content at release. Then over the years things get fixed, content gets added, and the game becomes something I'd want to play. But by that time the graphics are outdated and the population is slowly fleeing the game.
And then you have an example of EVE online which at this point not that much younger than UO, yet it has gorgeous modern graphics, and a population that is as active as it's first year. I wish more publishers followed their example.
 

805connection

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These guys who run the free server are making Bank on pixle crack, I think one of the popular ones is clearing about 250k a year selling hued items. I have a friend who donated 10k! to one of these servers when they launched
 

cazador

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Look at it from the other perspective, UO isn't dying from free shards, most of the idea of new systems, scroll books, dungeons, mounts. Came from free shards. Don't be naive.. the Devs are well aware of free servers and use them as guinea pigs. They test, try, perfect all the things you want. So I'll bet any amount that the Devs were like oh wow a ton of people like general chats systems(let's implement it) mind you! General chat systems were out 10+ years on free shards before they ever came to OSI. Probably due to lacking population, they wanted to make sure the small community didn't feel even smaller. Polar bear mounts, spider mounts, hell hound mounts, you name it. I think people play free shards play because they like the ERA. Some people quit for 8 months, then come back. While never actually stopping playing UO. Now if free shards weren't in fact a thing. Some might just quit, find a new game and not come back. Just a different perspective from someone who plays both OSI and free shards in all different eras.


....
 

cazador

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These guys who run the free server are making Bank on pixle crack, I think one of the popular ones is clearing about 250k a year selling hued items. I have a friend who donated 10k! to one of these servers when they launched
Your friend is a dink then! No offense! He could of spent 10k on official servers and flipped it for 20 easily selling gold...


....
 

cazador

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That the game that's never gonna get out of public beta.......He sure does know how to conn the gamers out of their cash. ;)
Yea seriously! I mean it looks nice..but it's this MASSSSSSIVE world where you maybe see 10-20 people. He's just nickel and diming people. I pledged at Kickstarter and watched it go slowly downhill. Every week it's some *NEW* pretty weird ass deco item or Vanity item. For a game that will never come out.


....
 

Captn Norrington

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What I don't understand, is since the devs said free shards work so well because they just steal everything from real UO... why don't the devs just do the same thing?

If a free shard has something cool, take it. Every single cool thing on every free shard in existence, take it all and put it into real UO. Since they stole from UO originally, UO has every right to steal new things from the free shards.

Basements, an in-game friends list, new house sizes, new decorations, even bug fixes to common bugs etc. all already exist on free shards.

They could probably create an entire expansion, without having to do any work themselves just by taking things that already exist on free shards.

It's not like the free shards can sue UO for doing it.... since their whole free shard was stolen from EA in the first place.
 

Nexus

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What I don't understand, is since the devs said free shards work so well because they just steal everything from real UO... why don't the devs just do the same thing?

If a free shard has something cool, take it. Every single cool thing on every free shard in existence, take it all and put it into real UO. Since they stole from UO originally, UO has every right to steal new things from the free shards.

Basements, an in-game friends list, new house sizes, new decorations, even bug fixes to common bugs etc. all already exist on free shards.

They could probably create an entire expansion, without having to do any work themselves just by taking things that already exist on free shards.

It's not like the free shards can sue UO for doing it.... since their whole free shard was stolen from EA in the first place.
That's what I been screamin =)
It's not necessarily that simple, you can't just drop all that stuff in, you're talking about something using a modern high level programming language being dropped into something using a proprietary scripting language that dates back to 1997.
 

Caitlyn Snow

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I've talked to friends that have played them and more often than not they said they quit freeshards because there was no challenge and there was little to do with teams. Plus add that to the relatively low pop of most of them and they said they got bored and came back to OSI


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Arcus

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....only in America could you even takeover something this way.. [bcolor=rgb(16, 16, 16)];)[/bcolor]
Are you serious with this garbage? Only in America? Do you even look outside of your money sphere at other countries , specifically China? They have a WHOLE DAM THEME PARK based on Warcraft that was "pirated" for lack of a better term
 

Fridgster

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What I don't understand, is since the devs said free shards work so well because they just steal everything from real UO... why don't the devs just do the same thing?

If a free shard has something cool, take it. Every single cool thing on every free shard in existence, take it all and put it into real UO. Since they stole from UO originally, UO has every right to steal new things from the free shards.

Basements, an in-game friends list, new house sizes, new decorations, even bug fixes to common bugs etc. all already exist on free shards.

They could probably create an entire expansion, without having to do any work themselves just by taking things that already exist on free shards.

It's not like the free shards can sue UO for doing it.... since their whole free shard was stolen from EA in the first place.
Always been one to believe in turn about is fair play. I like this idea. A lot.
 

Slayvite

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Are you serious with this garbage? Only in America? Do you even look outside of your money sphere at other countries , specifically China? They have a WHOLE DAM THEME PARK based on Warcraft that was "pirated" for lack of a better term
What has a themepark in China got to do with the fact that in the USA you can lose you own business because somebody else decides your not doing it well enough??
 

Arcus

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What has a themepark in China got to do with the fact that in the USA you can lose you own business because somebody else decides your not doing it well enough??
WoW themepark was only my example of a grand exploitation of someone elses IP that was common enough and googleable enough to research without issue. Chine is notorious for copying products and ideas and making money off of it.

"you can lose you own business" - EA has not lost its business. What are you even talking about? Losing some customers? Maybe but this is all speculation on your part.
 

Slayvite

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WoW themepark was only my example of a grand exploitation of someone elses IP that was common enough and googleable enough to research without issue. Chine is notorious for copying products and ideas and making money off of it.

"you can lose you own business" - EA has not lost its business. What are you even talking about? Losing some customers? Maybe but this is all speculation on your part.
I think you need to go back and re-read the posts,
I was on about the fact that Broadsword should go for a hostile takeover of UO as it is clear to all that EA is just running it into the ground and that in the USA this is grounds for legal action.
My sarcasm was the fact that ONLY in the USA would this ever be a thing. If I wanted to destroy my own company then I could, but not in the USA ;)
 

The Craftsman

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Broadsword can do diddly squat about freeshards. Only EA can decide to clamp down as they own the IP, and they seem completely disinterested in doing so.

Sure BS can steal ideas from freeshards but stealing the idea isnt the same as implementing it on prodo shards. That takes time and resources (ie money).
 

Arcus

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I was on about the fact that Broadsword should go for a hostile takeover of UO
Hahahah. You are so out of touch with reality. EA is a behemoth and Broadsword is barely a gnat . You really need to think before you type.
 

Slayvite

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Hahahah. You are so out of touch with reality. EA is a behemoth and Broadsword is barely a gnat . You really need to think before you type.
You must be Corporate with that attitude...
Erin Brockovich ring a bell?
EA's response to an UO take over bid would probably be...."Ultima Online? Oh we thought we cancelled that off years ago..."
 

Merlin

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You must be Corporate with that attitude...
Erin Brockovich ring a bell?
EA's response to an UO take over bid would probably be...."Ultima Online? Oh we thought we cancelled that off years ago..."
There is nothing wrong with being corporate.

As long as Broadsword's bottom line does not fall into the red, UO will be around. Take it from a former EA stockholder.

All other speculation of take overs or potential lawsuits is just a bunch of jibber jabber. EA will not incur legal fees to go after small-fry free shards when there is no net financial benefit to them.
 

Kirthag

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originally had a very long post about the history of free shards, how the first of them came to be, how their code is very different from Broadsword's code, and how/why they still exist - but lost it due to a small power outage.
*sigh*
technology

let's just say the first "free shard" was out there in 1997 - about the same time RG & team released UO to the public.
Open Source code is awesome (hint hint).

UO now is very different in source from its original with all the patch work and band-aids and attempts at modernization of the code. The source code itself was not lost (or we'd not have a game to escape into), the documentation on that code was lost. Without documentation, getting into a program (particularly a rather complex and new one like UO was back-in-the-day) is damned near impossible. The dev team, by now, must have reverse engineered a lot of the band-aids and such to be able to continue serving up our favored escape or they wouldn't have been able to hammer out a deal with EA to keep us all "alive".

TBH, I fully expected EA to shut UO down a couple years ago as obviously revenue is not what it should be and we are all such hard-asses when it comes to change. I think Broadsword is doing an awesome job at customer service and keeping the shards going, even if I do not agree with everything myself. Business wise, they survive (with UO & that other game they manage... what is it again?).

Right now, nostalgia sells, and UO is proof of it.
 

railshot

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UO now is very different in source from its original with all the patch work and band-aids and attempts at modernization of the code. The source code itself was not lost (or we'd not have a game to escape into), the documentation on that code was lost.
Right now, nostalgia sells, and UO is proof of it.
I know the source code was leaked which is what made Freeshards possible. It's easy to imagine a leak, but how do you lose documentation to an actively developed game?
 

Kirthag

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I know the source code was leaked which is what made Freeshards possible. It's easy to imagine a leak, but how do you lose documentation to an actively developed game?
The story has it that when the team was moving office (for they had grown popular and needed more space), the documentation was a hodge-podge of binders, notebooks and scribbles. Portions of it was all put into a box. An intern, not knowing any better, thought the ramshackle papers and old scribbles in a cardboard box was... well... trash.

Or so the story goes.

Not all of the documentation was lost - a good portion of it was around and some of those who had leaked code (and documentation) did help, but the damage was done. It is for this reason we had no patches for a rather long time - just minor artwork updates and such. I suspect a good portion of the lost code had to do with housing, animation and such.

But I am no authority - just have a long memory about what was posted on the oldest and long lost of Stratics boards.[/S]
 

MalagAste

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The story has it that when the team was moving office (for they had grown popular and needed more space), the documentation was a hodge-podge of binders, notebooks and scribbles. Portions of it was all put into a box. An intern, not knowing any better, thought the ramshackle papers and old scribbles in a cardboard box was... well... trash.

Or so the story goes.

Not all of the documentation was lost - a good portion of it was around and some of those who had leaked code (and documentation) did help, but the damage was done. It is for this reason we had no patches for a rather long time - just minor artwork updates and such. I suspect a good portion of the lost code had to do with housing, animation and such.

But I am no authority - just have a long memory about what was posted on the oldest and long lost of Stratics boards.[/S]
That's rather what I heard... but who knows.
 

Dot_Warner

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I thought the original server code was reverse engineered from the offline UO demo they put out ages ago...which they didnt bother to encrypt.
 

Uriah Heep

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I thought the original server code was reverse engineered from the offline UO demo they put out ages ago...which they didnt bother to encrypt.
Think it was what, T2A that had that on a few ddisks? lol

Still is odd that outsiders can manipulate it and EA/Origin/Mythic/Broadsword can't.
Contract with the basement kids...let them give us the cool stuff.
 

petemage

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I thought the original server code was reverse engineered from the offline UO demo they put out ages ago...which they didnt bother to encrypt.
Kinda what I read too, but sources seem to differ here and there. I've read some saying source code was shipped on the CD (which I don't believe, since you can't find a single line of it online). Then there is people saying they were there, and it sounds more like reverse engineering:
Some source code was shipped with the Ultima Online Demo in 1998. It was encrypted, but a few private UO server hackers cracked it and reverse engineered their internal scripting language.
Development content accidentally shipped on a DOS CD-ROM game from 1993 | Hacker News

At the end that's what is most plausible to me: As it was an offline demo, they had to ship their server software as well on the CD. The server software was somehow protected ("encrypted", but you don't just encrypt an executable) by 1998 standards. People broke the protection and extracted the Wombat engine ("internal scripting language") plus the scripts running on it (the "source code"), which gave them a pretty good idea of how the world in UO works. Good enough to replicate it from scratch.

There is also a dedicated website to it, but lots is technical stuff: UODemo Wiki
 

Arcus

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You must be Corporate with that attitude...
Erin Brockovich ring a bell?
EA's response to an UO take over bid would probably be...."Ultima Online? Oh we thought we cancelled that off years ago..."
Do you REALLY think that would be EA's response?

So how exactly would Broadsword do a "hostile takeover" of UO ? Please give general details on how you think this would work.
 
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railshot

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Still is odd that outsiders can manipulate it and EA/Origin/Mythic/Broadsword can't.
Contract with the basement kids...let them give us the cool stuff.
The freeshards do not run from modified OSI code. The freeshard servers only emulate official ones but are written from scratch. As they are newer, they are probably a lot easier to work with than the original UO server code.
 

hardy-

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Ok i will post my 2 cent as a "shard owner"

Idk if i can post this here but let's:

Actually i "run" a "freeshard" we are online have years, i support official ultima online server, i love uo simple as that.

Let me tell why players play on freeserver in place of "osi" , at least was what my friends tell me, and i experience everyday.

1st and MOST IMPORTANT, latency, is IMPOSSIBLE to a brazilian player (my case) for example play pvp in osi on ANY server actually, because the latency due regional distance, I have characters on Legends, on Atlantic, i have invested over 10plat in my character, but i simple can't compete against a player casting 3 times faster then me, because he ping 30ms and i ping 230ms.
2nd a staff more next to the players (players like be listen, and like answers) simple as that, players like when need help send a page and a gamemaster who knows the game reply you in 5 minutes, and have a good time chatting and giving tips, its the new player experience that have on free-servers and lack on official one.
3rd events, some servers have events (pvp, pvm, rpg, raffles) every 2 - 3 days, gm come talk with players, organize pvp events, and this type of interaction, event is something with contact and a event that players want, not just a story that we need follow for months, to win deco items while sitting with our gd looking the pain.
4rd price, actually 15usd for a month is too much for a game where you usually have 3 - 4 accounts, if you like pvp you need have 3 accounts because you will want do an harrower with a pvm and let a pvp afk in the spot, if the pvp fight start in the middle of the encounter because you wont will have 5+ minutes to switch char, if you do that you lose the spawn. so it isn't 15usd its 30-50usd usually
5rd Is so hard start play on a official server atm, you need buy, UOSA, UOHS, UOTOL, Rustic, kings theme, gametime, you need look for a lot of items that are expensive ( a new player need 200usd to get started on uo let`s be honest), while on a free-server you install the game, patch until last version, install uoassist or any 3rd party tool, hit start and play, and if you have any question just go to the site or facebook of the server and you will find answers.

some servers have 700+ online players, so its not all that small, and some servers are online haver 10+ years, without any revert, so players don`t lost nothing in the last 10 years.

I tried work with broadsword more then once, and i will be happy in close a regional server, when uo open a server in my country, and i will be glad in help any player from my country in get started on osi, but while it doesn't happen the kids still playing the most near a real uo experience they can have.

If you only want sitbank, or rpg, latency, account-price, bureaucracy to get started doesn't matter, but if you want stream the game(like i like do), want go pvp, want go high end pvm without try smash your keyboard every 2 minutes, is impossible play the game with 180-350ms, without any support or help of the staff team.

The atual freeshards don't change any of the UO EA property code, then don't run any ea emulator, we have 5 or 6 emulators of the game, where the PLAYER change the login.cfg to put the ip address of the server to log on the private(pirate) server. So i think won't will be easy do ea or broadsword close a server, since they are not using any ea property, the player witch mod their client to play on the emulator is the one against uo tos.

Free-shards are doing a favor to ea, promoting the game, since you can find more videos and streams in internet from free-shard player then from official players, since you can find more paid advertise, in facebook, twitter and such from free-servers then from EA:UO,

An free server some months ago did a pvp event with 1000usd ins prizes , and invested over 5000usd in advertise on facebook campaigns, hired staffs and such, when you saw an announcement of EA:UO in facebook, or anywhere?

A group of developers are making an whole new client to work with emulators a REAL 3d one, and the player can select if he want use 2d, enchanted, kr, or the new client. (yeah all the clients working at same time on a server) and here we can't even have a high res client...


(ps, i edited some wrong typos (i hate my autocomplete)
 
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Arradin

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Oh god , People who try to sugarcoat freeservers and try to make it sound all Good and perfect, please spare me.

I have "worked" as staff on many of the huge freeservers that have been around over the last 15 years, and People play there for two reasons. Its Free and its easy. But it never last because it gets boring fast. EA:UO doesnt.

Freeservers are FULL off corruption where power is abused, People cheat hack script and such without limits.

No, efter all this time i have learnt that freeservers is a huge waste of time, if i want to pvp i go play CS.
 
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