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Governorships! Why bother?

Uriah Heep

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As stated in title. IT's cool to have the title once and say ya did it. But to what purpose does it serve, other than a little bit of roleplay?

Question was asked tonight in the Gov meeting, what can that city treasury be used for? Besides the trade deal buff? Nothing?!?!

So cities are sitting around with well over 100 mil in the vault, and nothing useful to do with it. Make it available to the EMs or something, to use in contests and rewards, let us pay mercenary NPC guards to protect and fight during animal invasions...anything!

I know no one wants to talk about anything except time of legends, but really, its stuff like the governor program that give us a black eye. Half complete, it got tossed out there and just left laying on the ground, useless. So many possibilities could come of it-contest, fairs, building memorials, additions requested by citizens.

How bout we finish up some of these existing subsystems that could be cool to have? If they worked, I mean.
 

MalagAste

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I've asked myself this question 100 times... You get to give people titles no one wants... When is the last time anyone asked a Governor for a Title? (Something that you could actually GIVE them that wouldn't get you or them banned)... I think one time someone asked me for one.... he never did again after it was discovered that the title only stays as long as the election... then I'd have to do it again... guess it got old.

There is nothing you can do with that gold but the Trade Deal... you can't improve your city in any way shape or form... you can't even put up deco for a Holiday or Event without asking the PEC... You can't get an invasion to give folk something to do.... you can't do anything really... You can request something but it has to be RP and it can't be deco... since the EM's don't deco. You can submit a request once a month but you best do it before the meeting it'll take at least 3 to 5 months for the EM to get back to you about it... and 9 out of 10 times your request will be denied.

You have zero influence over anything at all so basically the Governor system is about getting a buff for people you'll never see...... who never speak to you and never bother to let you know what buff they'd like... (Though I was told to do the buff of 1FC by some of the PvP crowd in Fel so they could save putting that on their suits... which hey fine by me)... But really no one really asks about it at all.... every election some fool will get it in their head that being a Governor will "get" them something..... which it does not other than a Title no one cares about... honestly. Titles are imo worthless, dime a dozen. And other fools think that being a Governor somehow gets you an audience with the DEVs and that the EMs are DEVs.... and no matter how many times you explain to them that the EMs CAN'T fix your character..... can't do anything without Mesanna's approval and won't be invading the city or anything of that nature they still do NOT get it...

Basically the Governorship entitles you to attend a boring meeting that pretty much is scripted..... where you get asked how your city is doing.... and you can put in a request to be denied... you get to sit at this boring meeting once every month.... if you don't you can forfeit your Governorship... and you are frowned upon by the other few people that bother to show... more often than not the only people that go to the meetings either go because they are foolish (See the above paragraph)... or they are role-players. And even then the RP factor is pretty one sided... you can pretty much tell the King to go blow his brains out and that your harboring mass criminals and he's going to tell you that it's sad to hear that and he wishes you wouldn't... end of RP. Next meeting you could tell him that there is a famine and all the people in your city are starving and dead.... he'll tell you he's sorry to hear that and you should feed them..... end of RP... nothing else will happen. You can even tell him you are going to war with another city.... he'll hope that the two of you can reach an agreement and stop fighting but nothing will come of it.

Mostly it seems to me it's a place to rehash all the EM events over the last month and then go home... if you stay awake for the entire meeting.

Best thing to come of the Meetings IMO has been the addition of the Stables in Vesper (LONG OVERDUE) and the additions of Docs in Yew and Minoc... things like this are what I thought the meetings should bring... much needed amenities to the Towns we all love. Honestly I've lived in and near Yew since I started playing UO some 16+ years ago... It's my home and it always will be. I would love to see some improvements there... but I highly doubt I ever will. And your right everyone is on about ToL and that's the way most games are... old stuff is forgotten and left incomplete and unfinished...... while new stuff is added bugs are introduced and 1/2 of those will be with us for many years to come and never fixed... But soon as something new is added it too will be forgotten. When is the last time anyone went to Wrong dungeon in Tram? Despise? Covetous? Other than those on Siege winning back their trophy...

So too the Governor system is often forgotten... till the next election when some dreamer once again gets some silly idea that the title of Governor has some hidden meaning or reward.
 

J. E. Tamer

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Ditto what Malagaste said.

I got a lot of decorations for my town during the first term of governors, but after the complaints here on UHall (e.g. "it's not fair that your EM is doing a lot of decorating while the one for my shard isn't") my EM was reluctant to do additional decorating.
[Humor: about half the decorations were food. I was horrified when people ATE the decorations. My EM hadn't figured out how, or perhaps didn't have the power, to make them inedible.]

I'd like the ability to lock things down in my town, and script "oracles" in my town too, without needing to go through my EM or my PEC. ==> but it would be okay if, after placement, the EM or PEC got veto power over these.

I s'pose it's moot now. My shard is depopulated now to the point that I will be unable to get my self-nomination seconded at the next election, and I don't have a second account to game the system.
 

Captn Norrington

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I 100% agree with Malagaste.

I was the Atlantic Yew governor once....and once was enough.....there is genuinely no reason for players to bother with that system. Everything that would be useful or cool, is denied by the King and in most cases isn't even thought about for more than 3 seconds, and then your own citizens blame you for not being able to get their requests granted even though it's not your fault in any way. The drama in that system is ridiculous also, I've seen 10 year friendships get completely destroyed just because both people were governors and one person perceived that the other person or their city was getting favoritism (which sometimes is actually true, I've seen that also) not to mention all the drama and rumor spreading that happens during the elections themselves. The governor gets hounded by the PvP community to make the trade deal a particular thing and keep it that way forever, and no matter which one you pick half the people will still be mad at you for not picking the one they wanted (on Atlantic at least).

The system had a huge amount of potential, but it has all been completely wasted by tying the hands of both the governors and EM's. Now the whole system pretty much comes down to having a cool title, and spending a couple hours a month attending the governor meeting (when you already know exactly what it's about because every meeting is repetitive and dull).

You can still roleplay however you want and even declare yourself the mayor of a town without being associated at all with the official governor system, so I don't know why people jump through all the hoops and endure all the drama just for a temporary title.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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I can't really disagree with what has been said above... I will only add a but..

there are plenty of those who seek Governor in order to build the community and still do their best to do that even with the limited system in place. White net tosses, Harbingers built into an rp type scene etc... imho the easiest thing they can do is to give us more "portable creatures" like that who pack a punch.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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Well, they no longer spawn but you can still buy them and they still work (even still at times drop the non luck garb) but they are getting harder and harder to find.
 

Deraj

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Don't take what I am about to say as the governor system is perfect, flawless and complete. It is a basic system which I hope will see further improvements and expansion in the future. That being said.. if you can't see a point to the governor system as it stands now, you either lack people, lack imagination, or both at the same time.

I have observed the governor system utilized by roleplayers and non-roleplayers alike to facilitate many interesting interactions that would have otherwise not existed without it. On Catskills, over the past year I have watched it result in unscripted conflicts and good-natured political intrigue that one would be hard-pressed to ever find in any other MMO. In fact on Catskills alone, where I am the governor of Skara Brae, we have created written laws that have become gradually more tyrannical over time, a courthouse where political enemies have been given rigged trials, and ultimately have created many morally-ambiguous situations and narratives that challenge participants in ways that your average MMO quest line cannot even come close to achieving. While most players are out grinding, farming, bank-sitting, and insulting each other's mothers in general chat, we are over here experiencing the Ultima version of game of thrones. That's just in Skara Brae.

Outside of Skara Brae, we've seen numerous conflicts arise between different governors over competing interests. Did I mention until recently, we've been without an EM, King, and gov meetings since October? Yes that's right, so much of this activity occurred without an EM being with us, and that's not even counting the stuff prior to our previous EM departing. Last night we finally had our first governor meeting in a long time. It was heavily attended, highly contentious, and went on for 2 hours. Anything but boring, really.

This is of course not to mention the numerous competitions, events, and the occasional PEC events organized by governors. In Vesper for example we have we weekly net tosses, and the occasional PEC event and auction. In Skara Brae I've run monthly archery competitions. In Trinsic we have monthly fishing competitions.

I know what you might be thinking. Couldn't all of this, the RP, the events etc, be done without the "fancy title". To a certain extent, I will concede: yes. So then that brings us to the original question, what is the point of all this governor system nonsense?

The way I see it, there are two schools of thought. The first is the "what can being a governor do for me" perspective. This is wondering what rewards or bonuses or benefits will can be acquired. Thinking you'll get perks, that you'll be able to request stuff, that you can get an "audience with the devs" (not sure if anyone actually thinks that, but if so wow), or that the EM should cater to you. Yes, even wanting to decorate a town qualifies as this form of thinking; it's pure vanity. The other school of thought is "how can I use this to build something". Here is where the actual point of the governor system comes into play, as it stands now, to serve a focal or starting point for community building activity. It gives players something to invest in. To identify with. What it is not, or should not, be is a vending machine for free bonuses and decoration. The life of your town is measured in player activity, not the number of decorations you've successfully requested. If I may be allowed to allude to the famous JFK quote, the point of being a governor is not what it can do for you. The point is what you as a governor can do for your town and shard.
 

MalagAste

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I was the Mayor of the City of Yew for 8 or more years prior to the Governor system... everyone knows that I love my city and always have... The Governor system IMO has changed Nothing with that... Whether I continue to be the Governor or not I will always love the City of Yew and it will always be my home and I will always care what happens to it and I will always want to see it improved. It is all about the Role-play and that is it... but the RP will be there with or without the Governor system and it always has... many RP communities have ALWAYS done events shard wide events regardless of anything the DEVs do. We have held balls, holiday events, poetry contests, story contests, fairs and any number of other events as long as I can remember without any help from a PEC or anything else and we will continue to do so with or without being Governors. Because community is important to us.

A title of Governor means nothing in that regard.

I agree with @Captn Norrington in that it has cost more in drama and broken friendships and such than it has helped. Sadly it has not brought much in regard to strengthening RP or building the RP community and honestly no one cares about the meetings other than those in the RP community. You will not see more than 1 or 2 people outside that community at a Governors meeting... or at least not ever again once they figure out that the EM's aren't DEVs and they can't do anything for them.

I've seen countless people try to get elected and some win thinking they can get some sort of invasions or something into their towns or do something in Fel only to find that this is NEVER the case.

Usually when someone "outside" the RP community gets elected we can count on one thing..... they will attend the first meeting 50% of the time..... after that they will not be see nor heard from ever again...

Our first Governors election on GLs one guy ran a character in every town he won 2 or 3 of them but he could only attend the meeting on ONE of the characters... since they were all on the same account. And he like many others after him thought he would "get" something... something he could sell.... and make money from. I'm glad that was a disappointment for him. I ran because it was the thing for me to do for my city that I love. I ran because I mistakenly thought it would be a way I could get things improved in my city... Like the Dock and a Bridge to the Yew Far Farm... we all know that one belongs there... infact it really ought to have a Ferry like Skara Brae to the Farm or something... the roads are there on both sides of the land but no such bridge exists nor will it likely ever exist no matter how much sense it makes to have one there. Cities without stables like Jhelom will likely NEVER get one of those either... why? Because that's not what the program is for... exactly what it really is for or was even conceived for is anyone's guess. IMO it was to put in the system of trade deals without much thought or consideration of it's use. Mostly it's those that PvP that are the most concerned about Trade Deals... and a vast majority of the deals are NEVER used. Most everyone wants the same 3 or 4 and that's about it. I personally still think that this could have been done with letting individuals pick their deal with the system by building points in loyalty to the city through trade quests and using those to get a deal... of their choice not the one elected Governor choosing and as many have said getting chastised for that choice no matter what it is.
 

PwnySlaystation

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I did post up a while ago asking if we could revert the way titles are shown to pre AOS. (Above each persons head) this would make titles/guild titles much more appealing again.
 

Uriah Heep

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Bridge to the Yew Far Farm... we all know that one belongs there... infact it really ought to have a Ferry like Skara Brae to the Farm or something... the roads are there on both sides of the land but no such bridge exists nor will it likely ever exist no matter how much sense it makes to have one there.
The code is already ingame. Fel Atlantic has one, or it did at one time. So it can be done, it has been done, should be copied over to all shards and facets... *shrugs*
 

Luc of Legends

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I agree with Uriah, MalagAste, & Norrington. I have seen a fight over the mayorship of a town that no one was running. I have seen a friend leave because of an issue with EM, Mayorship, and decoing. He even had come up with like 10 books of scenarios and the EM either poo-pooed or just ignored them. He had no idea of getting "gifts". He only wanted to improve the community and make UO better. It is sad that a program with sooo much potential is lef hal baked.

luc
 

Parnoc

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Malagaste said: Usually when someone "outside" the RP community gets elected we can count on one thing..... they will attend the first meeting 50% of the time..... after that they will not be see nor heard from ever again...

and then the "King" will admonish and embarass a Governor that is unable to attend because of his occupation on one of the rare times he was able to attend but will not kick out the almost half of the Governors that have NEVER showed up for a meeting with no reason. For this reason I will not run again for the Governorship of Skara Brae.
 

MalagAste

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Malagaste said: Usually when someone "outside" the RP community gets elected we can count on one thing..... they will attend the first meeting 50% of the time..... after that they will not be see nor heard from ever again...

and then the "King" will admonish and embarass a Governor that is unable to attend because of his occupation on one of the rare times he was able to attend but will not kick out the almost half of the Governors that have NEVER showed up for a meeting with no reason. For this reason I will not run again for the Governorship of Skara Brae.
On GLs at least the King will ask if any "citizen" of the town wants to step forward and represent any of the Governors NOT present. And you can always Email the King (EM/EMs) of your shard and let them know you won't be able to attend whatever.... But more often than not that doesn't happen. And Yes IMO if you miss more than 2 meetings in a row you should no longer be a seated Governor unless you DID let the EM know you won't be attending for whatever reason. But seriously most folk who give a rats know when the meetings are and when they will be so they can plan accordingly and if they aren't able to be there they should at least say so... but really why run in the first place if you don't give a rats and just want the stupid trade buff... if the buff is the only thing that matters then talk to one of the Governors about getting it... most are more than willing to give the buffs and to put them in place... and if you ask around anyone will tell you what town offers what buff and then it's just a matter of being loyal to the right City... no need to become a Governor if all you want is a specific buff. Even if you don't know any of them just ask about in Gen Chat and I'm sure someone that does know them will let them know. Some shards like GLs have buildings where you can leave messages for Governors. (Consulate building on the North Side of Luna, 2nd from the NW Corner)

What really gets me more than anything is the people who run for Governor because of spite. Is it really necessary to drive out more players from the game??? Honestly don't we have few enough already? Certainly there are a few we all wish would leave and never come back... but really... just super sad, unfortunately we all know it happens.
 

Scribbles

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I always assumed the governor program was only for RP and thats why they wouldnt let reds get in on the action. Give us bucs den fel side. Ill RP the crap out of a thief or murderer.

Other than that i agree with The above comments.
 

MalagAste

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I always assumed the governor program was only for RP and thats why they wouldnt let reds get in on the action. Give us bucs den fel side. Ill RP the crap out of a thief or murderer.

Other than that i agree with The above comments.
I honestly always thought the Buff system should be part of the VvV system... controlling a town control the buff whatever... it's silly that Fel doesn't have something... RP or not... infact what they really need is an RP for Evil sides... to get buffs and whatever as well. Kinda thought that was were they were going with the whole Minax thing but then we got Shadowguard instead which seemed almost like a let down. Maybe that's me.
 

Yadd of Legends

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Thank you Uriah, for posting this question, and thanks to all who discussed it. It's appropriate for me because last night by chance I attended my first governor's meeting ever, after my character Lann sat in on the last half hour or so of the one on Catskills that Deraj mentioned. I heard talk of a warrant being issued to bring a governor to trial and a warning of consequences for the person making the charges if they turned out to be false, as well as some brief reports from several governors. I was totally clueless as to what it all meant, and still don't know what to think. I just thought I'd mention that I would wager a large majority of long-time players are just as totally clueless about this dimension of the game as I am.
 

Parnoc

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On GLs at least the King will ask if any "citizen" of the town wants to step forward and represent any of the Governors NOT present. And you can always Email the King (EM/EMs) of your shard and let them know you won't be able to attend whatever.... But more often than not that doesn't happen. And Yes IMO if you miss more than 2 meetings in a row you should no longer be a seated Governor unless you DID let the EM know you won't be attending for whatever reason. But seriously most folk who give a rats know when the meetings are and when they will be so they can plan accordingly and if they aren't able to be there they should at least say so... but really why run in the first place if you don't give a rats and just want the stupid trade buff... if the buff is the only thing that matters then talk to one of the Governors about getting it... most are more than willing to give the buffs and to put them in place... and if you ask around anyone will tell you what town offers what buff and then it's just a matter of being loyal to the right City... no need to become a Governor if all you want is a specific buff. Even if you don't know any of them just ask about in Gen Chat and I'm sure someone that does know them will let them know. Some shards like GLs have buildings where you can leave messages for Governors. (Consulate building on the North Side of Luna, 2nd from the NW Corner)

What really gets me more than anything is the people who run for Governor because of spite. Is it really necessary to drive out more players from the game??? Honestly don't we have few enough already? Certainly there are a few we all wish would leave and never come back... but really... just super sad, unfortunately we all know it happens.

Thanks for the support Malagaste, noted. I will say this Governor has reasons for what he does and I tell the "king" each time of his whereabouts and why he cannot attend. Neither he nor I give a "rats *ss" either about the title, but we do like the buff and many folk in both our cities depend on us for that.
 

BrianFreud

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I've asked myself this question 100 times... You get to give people titles no one wants... When is the last time anyone asked a Governor for a Title? (Something that you could actually GIVE them that wouldn't get you or them banned)... I think one time someone asked me for one.... he never did again after it was discovered that the title only stays as long as the election... then I'd have to do it again... guess it got old.
Having to re-set the title gets old after the second or third time you and a governor have had to reset it. There's zero reason for titles to clear at elections.
 

Luc of Legends

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Having to re-set the title gets old after the second or third time you and a governor have had to reset it. There's zero reason for titles to clear at elections.
Agreed. For me it a double whammy...As I am one of seven with the Sea Dragon Herder event title. Every time the governors title clears my Sea Dragon Herder title nerfs up. I understand the others have gotten their titles fixed by Mesanna.
 

GarthGrey

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I've asked myself this question 100 times... You get to give people titles no one wants... When is the last time anyone asked a Governor for a Title? (Something that you could actually GIVE them that wouldn't get you or them banned)... I think one time someone asked me for one.... he never did again after it was discovered that the title only stays as long as the election... then I'd have to do it again... guess it got old.

There is nothing you can do with that gold but the Trade Deal... you can't improve your city in any way shape or form... you can't even put up deco for a Holiday or Event without asking the PEC... You can't get an invasion to give folk something to do.... you can't do anything really... You can request something but it has to be RP and it can't be deco... since the EM's don't deco. You can submit a request once a month but you best do it before the meeting it'll take at least 3 to 5 months for the EM to get back to you about it... and 9 out of 10 times your request will be denied.

You have zero influence over anything at all so basically the Governor system is about getting a buff for people you'll never see...... who never speak to you and never bother to let you know what buff they'd like... (Though I was told to do the buff of 1FC by some of the PvP crowd in Fel so they could save putting that on their suits... which hey fine by me)... But really no one really asks about it at all.... every election some fool will get it in their head that being a Governor will "get" them something..... which it does not other than a Title no one cares about... honestly. Titles are imo worthless, dime a dozen. And other fools think that being a Governor somehow gets you an audience with the DEVs and that the EMs are DEVs.... and no matter how many times you explain to them that the EMs CAN'T fix your character..... can't do anything without Mesanna's approval and won't be invading the city or anything of that nature they still do NOT get it...

Basically the Governorship entitles you to attend a boring meeting that pretty much is scripted..... where you get asked how your city is doing.... and you can put in a request to be denied... you get to sit at this boring meeting once every month.... if you don't you can forfeit your Governorship... and you are frowned upon by the other few people that bother to show... more often than not the only people that go to the meetings either go because they are foolish (See the above paragraph)... or they are role-players. And even then the RP factor is pretty one sided... you can pretty much tell the King to go blow his brains out and that your harboring mass criminals and he's going to tell you that it's sad to hear that and he wishes you wouldn't... end of RP. Next meeting you could tell him that there is a famine and all the people in your city are starving and dead.... he'll tell you he's sorry to hear that and you should feed them..... end of RP... nothing else will happen. You can even tell him you are going to war with another city.... he'll hope that the two of you can reach an agreement and stop fighting but nothing will come of it.

Mostly it seems to me it's a place to rehash all the EM events over the last month and then go home... if you stay awake for the entire meeting.

Best thing to come of the Meetings IMO has been the addition of the Stables in Vesper (LONG OVERDUE) and the additions of Docs in Yew and Minoc... things like this are what I thought the meetings should bring... much needed amenities to the Towns we all love. Honestly I've lived in and near Yew since I started playing UO some 16+ years ago... It's my home and it always will be. I would love to see some improvements there... but I highly doubt I ever will. And your right everyone is on about ToL and that's the way most games are... old stuff is forgotten and left incomplete and unfinished...... while new stuff is added bugs are introduced and 1/2 of those will be with us for many years to come and never fixed... But soon as something new is added it too will be forgotten. When is the last time anyone went to Wrong dungeon in Tram? Despise? Covetous? Other than those on Siege winning back their trophy...

So too the Governor system is often forgotten... till the next election when some dreamer once again gets some silly idea that the title of Governor has some hidden meaning or reward.
You left out the part where the governors also log in on his or her other other accounts to fill the seats of the peasants(As Morgan referred to us and the King did NOTHING ABOUT IT), because most players won't even bother to log in and support their shard that's slowly dying a horrible death except for one really large guild and a few stragglers (also filled with alts)....
 

MalagAste

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You left out the part where the governors also log in on his or her other other accounts to fill the seats of the peasants(As Morgan referred to us and the King did NOTHING ABOUT IT), because most players won't even bother to log in and support their shard that's slowly dying a horrible death except for one really large guild and a few stragglers (also filled with alts)....
Yes there are generally 2 to 4 actives with 2 or 3 alt there as well... but I think the EMs are aware of everyones alts.
 
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