Faction loss+pets, skill items?

[Splup]

Heya,

Few nights ago we were having a massive faction fight in despice, which lasted almost 2 hours. Our enemies were using 3 greater dragons (which is lame already), but after we had killed all their tamers atleast once, after they got ressed up we were still getting attacked by 3 greater dragons.

What this means, is that they had taming+lore jewerly+talisman with them, and after they went to loss, they were still able to use one of the most effective "weapons" there is. Most of characters on both sides were in loss, but they were able to use greater dragons (which don't go to loss), giving them a nice advantage. Thou we still won !

I find this pretty lame.

On the other hand, I use + skill items on my some chars too when I go to loss, to be able to cast 6th and 7th circle spells, which I don't find that lame. I still make low damage cause of low eval, and I'm pretty easy target for dexers.

Opinions about this? I think the pet should also atleast go to statloss, when the owner goes to statloss.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Wouldn't it be more effective to just lower skill caps? Can't combat that with items.

 

[Green Meanie]

of topic a lil ive always thought it lame that theres +skills for some skills and not for otheres. Making some templates 100% playable in stat and otherse Simply not. If the tamer is in stat and wearing jewlery to compensate it should make them much ezier to kill becouse there not wearing what ever jewlery they were (probly dci and ep).

 

[Splup]

of topic a lil ive always thought it lame that theres +skills for some skills and not for otheres. Making some templates 100% playable in stat and otherse Simply not. If the tamer is in stat and wearing jewlery to compensate it should make them much ezier to kill becouse there not wearing what ever jewlery they were (probly dci and ep).

Maybe statloss should stack.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Many tamers wear +taming jewels regardless of whether they're in stat loss. This is because it takes an absolute AGE to train enough "real" skill to control GDs reliably. If you're gonna have +taming jewels anyway, it's not a much bigger step to overcap.

 

[Wenchkin]

Skill items are a problem with tamers far beyond the faction loss thing, but good luck convincing said tamers that they should accept the change. Or even convincing a dev for that matter. The chances of these toys being nerfed in any way is IMO slim to nil.

Wenchy

 

[Flutter]

Remove skill items from the game entirely.
Worst addition to the game ever.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Removing skill items won't happen. That involves changing a heck of a lot of items, artifacts, etc.

Making it so you need real skill to bond/transfer a pet, on the other hand? I'm sure that can be done.

 

[RichDC]

To be honest it seems as if the only ones who actually are affected by stat loss is mages, and alchy thieves.

Dexxers because the skill check is real skill can still perform all of there specials to the same effectiveness (there hci may drop but the damage is the same)

Tamers can jewel up and still utilise GD's, beetles, dreadmares and do massive damage output.

Mages, can jewel up to cast higher level spells but then lose damage output (think it goes from 40ish to waht 20ish? for a fs) and DCI and casting (possibly).

Thieves have to jewel up to stealth can barely steal anything, alchy loses near enough all of its effectiveness. Ninja becomes almost pointless, etc etc etc.

To be honest it looks completely unbalanced, if anything i think stat should mean that all skill checks be done on show skill...even mages! Then at least everyone is on the same playing field.

 

[Old Man of UO]

To be honest it seems as if the only ones who actually are affected by stat loss is mages, and alchy thieves.

Dexxers because the skill check is real skill can still perform all of there specials to the same effectiveness (there hci may drop but the damage is the same)

Tamers can jewel up and still utilise GD's, beetles, dreadmares and do massive damage output.

Mages, can jewel up to cast higher level spells but then lose damage output (think it goes from 40ish to waht 20ish? for a fs) and DCI and casting (possibly).

Thieves have to jewel up to stealth can barely steal anything, alchy loses near enough all of its effectiveness. Ninja becomes almost pointless, etc etc etc.

To be honest it looks completely unbalanced, if anything i think stat should mean that all skill checks be done on show skill...even mages! Then at least everyone is on the same playing field.

This isn't quite right... go back and check to see what +skill items that are available, and while it may not be as easy for some as others, you can pretty much reduce the effects of stat loss for any (almost) character. Your example for the thief... add in shadow dancer legs, burglars bandanna, +20 to +30 skill jewelry... stat/skill loss has no effect if done right. If your thief can't steal with all that, you are doing something wrong or need to adjust your skills.

Balanced, perhaps not but I think you were exaggerating a bit.

 

[Bazer]

eh with the tamers, just kill the tamer and steal thereie bandys, then kill pets, now they haft a get more bandy s to res pets.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Good luck killing a GD once the tamer's gone down. He'll be sitting there with nothing better to do then watch it's health bar. As soon as it's near red-lined, simply logging out whisks the pet away to safety: It won't log back in with him until his character has been revived.

 

[RichDC]

This isn't quite right... go back and check to see what +skill items that are available, and while it may not be as easy for some as others, you can pretty much reduce the effects of stat loss for any (almost) character. Your example for the thief... add in shadow dancer legs, burglars bandanna, +20 to +30 skill jewelry... stat/skill loss has no effect if done right. If your thief can't steal with all that, you are doing something wrong or need to adjust your skills.

Balanced, perhaps not but I think you were exaggerating a bit.

Not really when you consider that most thieves templates are crammed!

Im already gaining 100points from items so what do i do when i go into stat???
(i play an alchy wrestle thief) there are no boosts to alchemy skill so those 100 points become almost worthless...as they should do in stat!

Im not saying that its impossible to overcome but what i am saying is that when dexxers in essence have no need to and tamers not really many changes on there suit (maybe lose a little dci/lmc but how hard are most tamers to hit?).

All a dexxer needs to boost is swords and parry really. (increase there hci and dci)

Tamer needs to boost what lore and taming? thats it really.

thief needs to boost his stealth, snoop, hiding, stealing and whatever his additional skills are.

A mage needs to boost magery, eval, med,resist,necro,ss,wrestle,parry (all dependant on what temp obviously).

And out of all of those a mage is still less than 50% effective, dexxers maybe90% effective and tamers 95% effective, us thieves (me especially) and at about 30% effectiveness (as i rely on alchy losing 30% of my ep is hard!!!)

 

[Tina Small]

To be honest it seems as if the only ones who actually are affected by stat loss is mages, and alchy thieves.

You forgot a few other types of characters that have no skill boosting jewels/items available to them: Trap removers and crafters.

 

[RichDC]

You are correct, my point wasnt so much about skill items, its more along the lines of the most "commonly" used pvp faction chars 1/2 are barely affected by stat loss and the other 1/2 are crippled!

 

[Tina Small]

Does anyone know if the developers ever considered the idea of making it impossible to rez for 20 minutes? Why did they put in a "skill loss" period instead of just forcing your character to stay as a ghost for 20 minutes?

 

[Old Man of UO]

Not really when you consider that most thieves templates are crammed!

Im already gaining 100points from items so what do i do when i go into stat???
(i play an alchy wrestle thief) there are no boosts to alchemy skill so those 100 points become almost worthless...as they should do in stat!

....

And out of all of those a mage is still less than 50% effective, dexxers maybe90% effective and tamers 95% effective, us thieves (me especially) and at about 30% effectiveness (as i rely on alchy losing 30% of my ep is hard!!!)

HEH... so basically you want a character with every skill that isn't affected by stats loss. I have a mage/thief, but he doesn't use alchemy and the template isn't cramped at all.

That's a bit like asking for a dexxer that uses bishidho, parry, weapons skill, tactics, anatomy, healing, necro, spirit speak and expect him to be a mage or alchemist too with 100 skill points from items. You are trying to break the skill cap.

And mages with the right skill combinations and skill items are as effective as any other character in stats loss.

As far as tamers go, I love my tamer but think when they go into stat loss the pet should also. Even then, there will be complainers about tamers.

 

[RichDC]

HEH... so basically you want a character with every skill that isn't affected by stats loss. I have a mage/thief, but he doesn't use alchemy and the template isn't cramped at all.

That's a bit like asking for a dexxer that uses bishidho, parry, weapons skill, tactics, anatomy, healing, necro, spirit speak and expect him to be a mage or alchemist too with 100 skill points from items. You are trying to break the skill cap.

And mages with the right skill combinations and skill items are as effective as any other character in stats loss.

As far as tamers go, I love my tamer but think when they go into stat loss the pet should also. Even then, there will be complainers about tamers.

You misunderstand, I didnt mean to come across as if i want it to change, im happy with the way my thief goes into stat its the way it should be.

What i dont think is fair is that a dexer when in stat WITHOUT skill enhancing items can still use ALL specials even those that require 90 skill, because its checked on real skill. What i would like to see is that when in stat ALL moves be it mage/tamer/dexxer/thief/crafter...whatever, work of of show skill ONLY so they HAVE to use skill increase items.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...

What i dont think is fair is that a dexer when in stat WITHOUT skill enhancing items can still use ALL specials even those that require 90 skill, because its checked on real skill. What i would like to see is that when in stat ALL moves be it mage/tamer/dexxer/thief/crafter...whatever, work of of show skill ONLY so they HAVE to use skill increase items.

ahh... I kinda see where you are going with this. I think everyone will have a differing opinion on this. I would rather see special moves based on real skill, so if your skills get lowered because of stat loss then you can't use the special. That would be similar to, but not the same as, getting rid of skill bonus items.

So, it will be a matter of opinions on this. And I still say you can currently make up for losses with skill items so you can get right back into a fight if you plan ahead.

 

[RichDC]

ahh... I kinda see where you are going with this. I think everyone will have a differing opinion on this. I would rather see special moves based on real skill, so if your skills get lowered because of stat loss then you can't use the special. That would be similar to, but not the same as, getting rid of skill bonus items.

So, it will be a matter of opinions on this. And I still say you can currently make up for losses with skill items so you can get right back into a fight if you plan ahead.

I agree with what your saying, but...with 120 tactics you enter stat loss at 80 right?? that should not allow you to use the secondary special move, try it without any skill enhancement and you will be able to.

Now, try with 90 tactics you drop to what is it 75??im not sure but either way you can still perform both specials without skill enhancement...

That is what needs to be changed.

 

[Green Meanie]

Does anyone know if the developers ever considered the idea of making it impossible to rez for 20 minutes? Why did they put in a "skill loss" period instead of just forcing your character to stay as a ghost for 20 minutes?

I realy kinda like this. As it is i like stat loss becouse it realy makes a diffrance when you kill someone instead of them just rezing and coming right back in the fight 100% effective. I would say if they changed it to no rez during a period that maybe the timer should be halfed to say 10 mins.

 

[GL_Seller]

I've already sent in multiple questions to the devs why this is possible. Stat loss should be stat loss flat out. You shouldnt be able to put on +skill jewelry. If your in stat loss thats the skill lvl you should be at flat out.

The tamer thing is pathetic. The thief thing is ignorant. There are guilds on GL that if they lose the sigils they log out and just bring thieves back in over and over and over. Die a ton of times go into stat then finally get in and steal the sigil. To me thats bull****. You should not be able to steal a sigil in stat. Or control a GD.

So devs if you read this make stat loss exactly that. LOSS not a god damn inconveniece while you go switch out jewelry.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

With my 120 real skill in stealing, even in stat I can steal sigils, without any add-ons...la

 

[GL_Seller]

Im completely fine with that. The ones on greatlakes however do not have 120 stealing. As i just looked on uo.com. Some of them dont even have stealing in there top 3 skills with those other high skills being nothing but gm.

This is the problem i have with that. If you worked for 120 then thats great steal at will. Its the ones who dont but are still able to steal them in stat that i have a problem with.

You as a pure thief with 120 skill should be a little upset about it as well, but playing on siege you need 120 real because u cant carry insured +stealing items.

In the end statloss needs to have the skill caps set to there stat lossed lvl and not be able to be increase.