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Does the concentration of high end loot....

Does the concentration of sources for high end loot take away from the sandbox concept?

  • yes

    Votes: 26 89.7%
  • no

    Votes: 3 10.3%

  • Total voters
    29

Fridgster

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Take away from the sandbox concept?

While you are certainly free to do as you wish, the truth is if you want any type of high end loot you are very limited in your choices.

Curious what others think...
 

Nexus

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Take away from the sandbox concept?

While you are certainly free to do as you wish, the truth is if you want any type of high end loot you are very limited in your choices.

Curious what others think...
I'll counter with this thought, yes I think it does, but not because of the loot. The loot is symptom of the idea of "End Game Content" that's where I see the problem, in an open world Sandbox game, why is there End Game Content? If you want an immersive, engaging world, how can you do that if there is a pinnacle a point where nothing is new, challenging or fresh. This is in my opinion what happened to UO before champion spawns, before all the instanced events like the Peerless, etc. you logged in an "lived" in Sosaria, now you go out an try and "conquer" Sosaria.
 

cobb

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Yes. In a sandbox you should be free and encouraged to do whatever you want. But the way things are now, players are only encouraged to do Shadowguard and Exodus.
 
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Briken

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
With items that have 10+ mods on it (x6), it can make any template over powered. Thus the game is item based and not more template and balance based. Want an expansion? Add an extra mod to the current max mod number and put it on a new encounter with a rare drop rate and you got hours of game play for high end item hunters.
 
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Briken

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The end goal of a sandbox game is to be able to compete in PvP and have fun. A decent player with decent gear should be able to lend a hand in pvp, that's what makes a sandbox. If you have to have 6 legendary items with 10 mods on it to compete its not a sandbox but a race for the best items.

Pre-AOS the number of magic items where vary limited. A few levels in weaponry which would give a small bonus. Vanq's actually did significant amount of damage, which made them highly valuable but people couldn't handle thieves or losing them when they died. Most people wore GM made armor so that made it a huge balance. You wouldn't never see someone walking around in full invulnerability suit with a vang. They would get ganked and looted soooo fast. What made the game great back than was a balance between easy to come by items mixed in with some magic items. The way items are now, I don't see how it could ever go back to that. Keep putting on extra mods is defiantly not the way but combining the right mods to maximize the template (with limited # mods on an item).
 
Last edited:

Spartan

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
The end goal of a sandbox game is to be able to compete in PvP and have fun. A decent player with decent gear should be able to lend a hand in pvp, that's what makes a sandbox. If you have to have 6 legendary items with 10 mods on it to compete its not a sandbox but a race for the best items.

Pre-AOS the number of magic items where vary limited. A few levels in weaponry which would give a small bonus. Vanq's actually did significant amount of damage, which made them highly valuable but people couldn't handle thieves or losing them when they died. Most people wore GM made armor so that made it a huge balance. You wouldn't never see someone walking around in full invulnerability suit with a vang. They would get ganked and looted soooo fast. What made the game great back than was a balance between easy to come by items mixed in with some magic items. The way items are now, I don't see how it could ever go back to that. Keep putting on extra mods is defiantly not the way but combining the right mods to maximize the template (with limited # mods on an item).
Compete not just in PvP, but in all aspects of the game. While I don't engage in PvP and rarely go to Fel, I can agree with most of this. I remember having to balance the type of suit I was wearing for what I planned on doing ... when plate affected stamina, when archer sets were worth wearing. Where only 2 or 3 helmets didn't give you stam loss.

The reasonably simple sandbox is gone ... just like the T-rex. Hell, even Item Id had a purpose because without it, you didn't really know what-all you had on that weapon or armor piece if it was a magic item! Yeah ... some of the old days really could stand a resurgence.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Take away from the sandbox concept?

While you are certainly free to do as you wish, the truth is if you want any type of high end loot you are very limited in your choices.

Curious what others think...
The higher the availability, the less high end it becomes. If you spread out the sources you'd have to lower the drop rate. Which would you prefer?
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yes. In a sandbox you should be free and encouraged to do whatever you want. But the way things are now, players are only encouraged to do Shadowguard and Exodus.
Only if one is assuming that the only "worthwhile" goal is chasing high end equips. You can't have high end drops off of any and every monster, and expecting every monster to have something otherwise "worthwhile" to drop is unrealistic. I mean I guess they could put an item like those stupid gold shovels on every monster, but... that just seems stupid to me. Rarity for rarity's sake.

I personally feel that in a sandbox game it's up to you to decide what's of worth, not the developers. If you wanna chase uber loot, go where the ubers are, don't ask for ubers to be everywhere.
 

Ox AO

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I remember finding a vanquishing weapon off a sewer rat. It was extremely rare but it made you look at everything. They hit for around +80 damage when most had hit points around 80
 
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PlayerSkillFTW

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Pre-AOS the number of magic items where vary limited. A few levels in weaponry which would give a small bonus. Vanq's actually did significant amount of damage, which made them highly valuable but people couldn't handle thieves or losing them when they died. Most people wore GM made armor so that made it a huge balance. You wouldn't never see someone walking around in full invulnerability suit with a vang. They would get ganked and looted soooo fast. What made the game great back than was a balance between easy to come by items mixed in with some magic items. The way items are now, I don't see how it could ever go back to that. Keep putting on extra mods is defiantly not the way but combining the right mods to maximize the template (with limited # mods on an item).
Yep. I used to run around in GM Heavy Archer Suits with GM Weps, DPed if possible. It wasn't until about 2001, when Orc Brutes came out, that i really started running around in high end magic armor all the time. I farmed Orc Brutes on my Tamer/Mage with a WW, because Orc Brutes were guaranteed to drop 1 piece of Magic Platemail, and 1 Magic War Mace. Blew through a crapload of ID Wands/Staves. I had acquired numerous sets of Invuln Platemail from them, and a bunch of Vanq War Maces. Even had a full set of Ind/Invuln Plate from them. Might as well have nicknamed my Macer "The Juggernaught" then.
 

Briken

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Compete not just in PvP, but in all aspects of the game. While I don't engage in PvP and rarely go to Fel, I can agree with most of this. I remember having to balance the type of suit I was wearing for what I planned on doing ... when plate affected stamina, when archer sets were worth wearing. Where only 2 or 3 helmets didn't give you stam loss.

The reasonably simple sandbox is gone ... just like the T-rex. Hell, even Item Id had a purpose because without it, you didn't really know what-all you had on that weapon or armor piece if it was a magic item! Yeah ... some of the old days really could stand a resurgence.
Exactly, each template had its own type of armor, not just meditation and non-meditation armor (plate helps with stam loss) and thats it. Armor would get worn down and had to be replaced by someone who crafted a full suit which was huge for the economy.

Only if one is assuming that the only "worthwhile" goal is chasing high end equips. You can't have high end drops off of any and every monster, and expecting every monster to have something otherwise "worthwhile" to drop is unrealistic. I mean I guess they could put an item like those stupid gold shovels on every monster, but... that just seems stupid to me. Rarity for rarity's sake.

I personally feel that in a sandbox game it's up to you to decide what's of worth, not the developers. If you wanna chase uber loot, go where the ubers are, don't ask for ubers to be everywhere.
Once you reach so far with gear than 97% of all loot on monsters is obsolete. You gear doesn't even need to be that good. Now clean items such as SSI jewelry can be found just by hunting. Uber loot just makes your stats stupidly insane which is good for helping to solo those hard PvM encounters but discourages teamwork. Apply those stupidly insane stat boost from uber items into pvp and it makes for a unbalanced environment.
 

n00bPvper

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I'll counter with this thought, yes I think it does, but not because of the loot. The loot is symptom of the idea of "End Game Content" that's where I see the problem, in an open world Sandbox game, why is there End Game Content? If you want an immersive, engaging world, how can you do that if there is a pinnacle a point where nothing is new, challenging or fresh. This is in my opinion what happened to UO before champion spawns, before all the instanced events like the Peerless, etc. you logged in an "lived" in Sosaria, now you go out an try and "conquer" Sosaria.

Answering the topic: Completely.

and this quoted post is gold, it's a perfect explanation
 

Obsidian

Crazed Zealot
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
I like having bosses to defeat. I think the solution to the current problem lies in the distribution of the legendary artifacts. All of the peerless, named ML monsters, champion spawn bosses, Stygian Abyss Mini Champ Bosses, and any other major foe needs to have a chance at dropping the same highest level of loot.
 

Picus of Napa

Certifiable
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Aye, not a certainty but a fair chance. I know that there are other benefits to doing a boss, champ or other such MOB but it's just plain silly that they don't have a 15% kick at the can.
 

arkiu

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
No doubter. It's really unfortunate because a great deal of the older content even while lacking rewards is still more enjoyable to play than a lot of the newer content. I dread going to lifeless eodon.

I think it would be really cool and engaging if there were mini automated events (NO EMs!) that occurred throughout the day that drew players to some of the older content. Say.... 1 of 20 pre-generated events. Something like pop a previously created event boss with slightly less health in Ice and criers would notify bank sitters. Or have a bunch of pre-surfaced treasure chests in the middle of Destard that when picked and opened would spawn insanity. Scale difficulty based on number of players in the area. Even if no drop would still be fun. Imagine the possibilities in fel! Kind of veered off topic there..

A 15 year revert would be nice too.
 
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