[Discussion] Discussion about the ethics of making gold in Ultima Online

[popps]

Alright, this is the Trader's Forum so I guess this topic in on spot here...

Over the years I have played UO, I have seen and heard lots of discussions about how to make gold in the game.

Lots of threads were made to give advice to players about how one could make gold in the game.

One thing, though, I have heard pretty much all the time, which was the advice to fellow players to "buy low and sell high"..........

I still remember when shards transfer was opened up, how many went to cheaper shards, bought up items for cheap and resold them for much higher on other shards.

I kinda recall players talking in the past about business opportunities in the game to grab and that, when there was a chance to buy something at a lower price and sell it then at a higher price, this was suggested as a good business practise in the game, a chance not to be missed.....

I was wondering if this still holds or whether things have changed in the game and this is somehow now "frowned upon"....

Do you buy low and sell high ? Have you done it at some point when playing UO ?

How about today ? Is this business practise still valid ?

What is wrong with it if any ?

 

[PASmountaindew]

Well with the advent of those un-mentionable vendor search sites it is much harder to make a larger profit from this practice but it can still be done. I used to do this a lot and still can if and when I need to.

 

[popps]

Well with the advent of those un-mentionable vendor search sites it is much harder to make a larger profit from this practice but it can still be done. I used to do this a lot and still can if and when I need to.

Thanks for your reply.

Are you perhaps referring to the "buy low and sell high" business practise ?

If so, then I take it you see this business practise as perfectly legit and even advisable to fellow players as a means to make gold in the game ?

 

[shulginist]

If so, then I take it you see this business practise as perfectly legit and even advisable to fellow players as a means to make gold in the game ?

Has basically been the advice I have given to players in most mmorpgs with a halfway decent economy that I have played.

 

[LionUWF]

Is buying cheap and selling high immoral?

If so then every shop, company and or trader in the world is immoral, its not bad, its just good business sense....

Personally I make my money another way, not nearly as much as some of these peeps, prob 5omil a week but it builds up

 

[popps]

Has basically been the advice I have given to players in most mmorpgs with a halfway decent economy that I have played.

Thank you for your reply also.

Let me make an example, so that I am sure I understand what you are both saying.

Let's imagine a Player A shopping for a given item.

He asks at bank.

Player B remembers he has seen that given item on a vendor, say, for 350k gold.

Player B asks player A how much he/she is willing to pay for that given item and Player A says, out of free will, let's imagine, 500k.

The options available here I see them as 2 :

Option #1)
Player B informs Player A that the item being searched for, is on a given vendor for sale at 350k.

OR

Option #2)
Player B grabs an opportunity to "buy low and sell high" and so make a profit given the differential between buying and selling prices (500k - 350k).

From both of your replies I seem to understand that under the "buy low and sell high" business practise you both suggest as legit and advisable the Option #2.

Do I understand correctly ?

 

[popps]

Is buying cheap and selling high immoral?

I am neither saying that it is nor that it isn't. I am merely exploring traders' opinions on the issue and what they think so far.

If so then every shop, company and or trader in the world is immoral, its not bad, its just good business sense....

Apparently, out of 3 replies all 3 support the "buy low and sell high" business practise.
Did I understand it as right ?

 

[shulginist]

Thank you for your reply also.

Let me make an example, so that I am sure I understand what you are both saying.

Let's imagine a Player A shopping for a given item.

He asks at bank.

Player B remembers he has seen that given item on a vendor, say, for 350k gold.

Player B asks player A how much he/she is willing to pay for that given item and Player A says, out of free will, let's imagine, 500k.

The options available here I see them as 2 :

Option #1)
Player B informs Player A that the item being searched for, is on a given vendor for sale at 350k.

OR

Option #2)
Player B grabs an opportunity to "buy low and sell high" and so make a profit given the differential between buying and selling prices (500k - 350k).

From both of your replies I seem to understand that under the "buy low and sell high" business practise you both suggest as legit and advisable the Option #2.

Do I understand correctly ?

If someone is looking for an item in chat or at bank and I know where it is cheaper then what they are willing to pay I will direct them to that vendor every single time. Whether it would have been 100k profit for me or 5m profit I don't care I try to help my fellow buyers.

The only time I could see me not doing this if it is another reseller that will just jack the price up higher. If that is the case then I will sell for what they are asking.

It is a different story to me if the person isn't actively looking for said item at the bank or in chat. I keep mental notes of a lot of people who will pay xyz for items and if said item is cheaper then what I know they pay I will buy it and toss on vendor. This only accounts for a fraction of what I have on vendors though. I mainly just buy items that are underpriced and sell them for what I know/think I can get for them.

Nothing is wrong with either scenario to me I know quite a few people that will go buy the item and sell it for what the person is asking and it is understandable. If a buyer doesn't do their due diligence or have the time or is just too rich/lazy to find an item nothing really wrong with the educated buyer who does and makes some gold off of them.

If the vendor search hub is actually implemented then the shopper will have a much easier time finding the cheapest prices.

 

[popps]

Nothing is wrong with either scenario to me I know quite a few people that will go buy the item and sell it for what the person is asking and it is understandable.

That is what I am trying to understand. I can understand different preferences of people but I was trying to understand whether both options can be considered valid and legit under the "buy low and sell high" business practice.

If they were not, then I should conclude that the "buy low and sell high" business practice was not appropriate which, from the several replies so far, does not seem to be the case.

All posters who replied seemed to be fine with the "buy low and sell high" business practice unless I understood something wrong. Therefore, as a logical conclusion, and as you point out, both options I seem to understand would be perfectly viable and acceptable behaviour.

 

[PASmountaindew]

I don't believe the actual practice of buying low and selling higher is immoral or anything as long as it is within reason. But this practice can be exploited for example...

Player A puts (widget) on his own vendor at 1 mill gold and then goes spamming at the bank that they are looking for that items and paying 5 mill for it. Player B sees the spam and searches on an un-named site and finds it for 1 mill on a vendor and says to thyself ooh a 4 mill profit. Buys the item and then goes to bank to sell it to the spammer only to find the spammer refuses to buy it and actually thanks Player B for buying the item off their vendor.

There are some very unscrupulous people ingame that would do something like this and the sad part is that it is completely legal to do.

 

[popps]

There are some very unscrupulous people ingame that would do something like this and the sad part is that it is completely legal to do.

Well, that is part of the learning experience I guess to find people trying to outsmart oneself...

Making mistakes and learning from them makes one more experienced and knowledged, IMHO.

 

[Omnius]

Indeed but I don't really consider that unscrupulous but rather inventive.

 

[DVI]

I've been a supporter of the "Buy low, sell high" method for many years. Although, I tend to price my items cheaper than the others located in Luna. This has the disadvantage that it sometimes limits my profit, but the advantage that my items typically sell first and fast which frees up my initial investment to be used else where.

I get most of my vendor stock from idocs and from x-sharding, but when I xshard I will often buy items that I will recieve little or no profit from as "vendor filler". It has the benefit that someone looking for item A, which I may make no profit on will come to my vendor to purchase it and also purchase item B which I will make a large profit off of.

I also try to stock my vendors with a wide variety of items ranging in price from 50k to 100m so that there is alilttle something for everyone.

 

[shulginist]

I will often buy items that I will recieve little or no profit from as "vendor filler". It has the benefit that someone looking for item A, which I may make no profit on will come to my vendor to purchase it and also purchase item B which I will make a large profit off of.

My buddy and I do the same. Interesting to hear that some others do that as well.