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Evlar
Guest
Heh... housing problems on another shard probably wouldn't worry me too much. I would be a lodger on the production shards. My true home would be the classic shard 
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Classic Shard #2
- Thread starter eekamouse
- Start date
- Watchers 9
- Status
From today's HOC:
The good news is that we have confirmation of Cal's original statement that a classic shard is under consideration. This really isn't anything we didn't already know, but it is good to hear from another source.
no new update is a lot better than a "no" *crosses fingers*
If you think about it, They almost have to consider it, Between the 1st classic shard thread added with this its is one of the biggest topics and has maybe dwarfed the pixel challenge thread in total post counts.
But yes I am glad to hear from another source.
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Evlar
Guest
The sceptic in me still thinks of a dangling carrot swaying in the breeze somewhat...
...on the other hand though, it may be the case that the "decision" one way or the other, will be a business one. That's up to EA to approve. Mythic can only present their thoughts and plans. If EA say no, they say no. Let's hope for once though, that EA decides to do the right thing.
If it doesn't work long term, they're still going to run a profit from it due to the initial interest I believe it will generate.
...on the other hand though, it may be the case that the "decision" one way or the other, will be a business one. That's up to EA to approve. Mythic can only present their thoughts and plans. If EA say no, they say no. Let's hope for once though, that EA decides to do the right thing.
If it doesn't work long term, they're still going to run a profit from it due to the initial interest I believe it will generate.
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Sergul'zan_SP
Guest
24 hours is a bit excessive...maybe 30 minutes at 75% stat loss. No jewelry buffs allowed.
They should also make it so you can't camp your counts off at trammel banks. That is incredibly lame. You want to work off your murder counts you earned in fel? Do it in fel. It's not fair to punish murderers because they aren't lame enough to camp their counts off in trammel....
Oh yeah...and let's make it really entertaining. They don't burn off while you're in guard zones. Oh yeah...I like the sound of that.... No houses either. Ohhhhhhh.
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Renyard Foxenwyle
Guest
On a classic shard there would be no jewelry buffs. Back in the day you only had properties like teleport, magic reflection, bless etc... on jewelry.
Hmm...Are you sure you're thinking about a classic shard? I hope a classic shard will not have Trammel. If it does your suggestion is the correct course of action. Counts should only drop off if you are in Fel. I also support the counts not dropping if you are in a guard zone. I don't even think that you should be able to ghost off counts while dead. Counts should only decay if you're alive.
Personally I like the idea of all murderers being subjected to a pillory upon death. They would serve time there where everyone could see them. A barrel nearby would spawn rotten vegetables for the passer-by to throw at the murderer. Of course I do not think the murder should have to be logged in the whole time simply because I do not think anyone should be locked out of the game for so long, but if you are in the pillory you wouldn't be able to log into any of your other toons unless you were on a different account.
Embarrassment for the PK hurts them worse than stat loss in my opinion. PvPers will likely choose to utilize the consensual PvP systems thus relegating the pillory to the PK's.
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Sergul'zan_SP
Guest
Not sure I posted it here...but my primary preference on a classic shard would be to have trammel. It's not for me though. I think it should be completely blocked from felucca...no cross-facet travel. If you say you're a true PvMer, then you shouldn't have any problem not having any access to felucca. No real PvPer should have any reason to use trammel.
The above is only if there were traffic allowed between the two...which is what started causing a lot of problems in UO. We're all entitled to play the style we like to play, but due to the delicacy of PvP with relation to PvM changes, I think the worlds are best completely seperate.
You like to do both? Two options:
1. Order/Chaos or a similar system in trammel. This would be for people who prefer to devote a majority of time to their PvM habits and dabble in PvP a little bit.
2. Do your hunting in a place you risk getting killed. This is for the more hardcore PvPers who can handle themselves in a fight. It's hard to imagine in the modern system, but it's perfectly feasible to have a bard/fencer that can fight in the classic system.
You should also be able to select which facet each of your characters start on. They should be provided with a single moonstone to switch facets a single time. Those should be blessed and bound to your character. This is just in case you change your mind...but not a way for you to jump back and forth regularly.
The above idea was just a catch all in case this solution wasn't implemented. :-D
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
What's the point?
If people want Trammel, they have 26 shards they can pick from. I really just don't get the purpose of just doing the same thing they already did.
If you start from T2A, or even the original, and make something unique, that HASN'T existed...no Trammel, no Fel, no easy-mode for PKs, no easy-mode for "Trammies", then we might actually see something worthwhile. Just having a Tram/Fel split again is going to lead to empty Fel and Trammies wanting more "content" to keep them from getting bored due to a complete and utter lack of challenge.
Pointless in my opinion.
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Renyard Foxenwyle
Guest
As has been said many many times before, not every "Trammie" is happy with the current game. Many do not like the item properties and the need for a calculator to add up resists etc... I have said it before, I could care less what era a classic shard is in, so long as the crap that was introduced by Age of Shadows and the expansions after that would just be removed. I would rather play on a pre-ren shard, but I'd be happy with a Pub 5 to 15 shard because then my wife would play again.
Hmm...I could be wrong about removing everything about the expansions from a classic shard. I can think of one thing that I would like to keep from Mondain's Legacy and that is getting those Begging "rares". And as I have said before I wouldn't mind keeping Necromancy and Chivalry because those two skills are based on Ultima lore.
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eekamouse
Guest
I think every expansion is based on the lore of the original Ultima games except for Tokuno.
Not really making a point. Just saying.
Not really making a point. Just saying.
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Sergul'zan_SP
Guest
This is exactly what I'm trying to say. I don't want Trammel to affect felucca at all, but I think it's inherently selfish for us to sit here and say we deserve a classic shard when there are many PvMers who feel the same way. Where is the problem if the facets are completely seperated with the exception of a single moonstone for you to cross over (with nothing in your backpack).
Trammel seems to take the blame for every problem in UO, but let's be realistic. Publish 15 UO was the most balance PvP in all of UO's history. The question becomes would you like to compromise, or would you like to sacrifice the entire possibility of our beloved classic shard because you feel your play style is the center of the earth? We shall see...
I'll add my two cents again. I think creating a classic shard with Trammel essentially emasculates most of the reasons for creating a classic shard in the first place. If you have Trammel and Felucca, Felucca will be mostly dead. People tend to take the path of least resistance, even if it means less fun.
Let me start by saying this, NO TRAMMEL or its RULESETS at all, I did love pub 15 although I was playin siege at the time and I agree it was the most balanced PvP. Now dont get me wrong I do believe if a Fel ruleset shard(known as t2a shard) is created then they by all fairness should make a trammel ruleset version of the shard, but based off what I have seen in the PRS world is that the Trammel only shards tend to be quite empty. The rulesets cannot coexist on the same server we seen what happened there in 2000 and it failed.
Now dont get me wrong You Super Trammies out there, Trammel was in fact needed and not a bad Idea in theory. But the way it was added to the game was wrong and hurt the game as a whole in the long run. Via balance issues, Economy, exc,exc. IF they were added as new shards Vs what they did back in 2k a lot of people would still be playing today (like most of my RL friends) and there would be no super inflation, maybe on the tram servers but balance between PvM/PVP would have been a lot easier to maintain.
A "classic shard" must first carry the T2a ruleset known as Fel to the layman lol, I dont care if its up to pub 15 and even had items,lands,systems from newer expansions as long as they do not involve the AOS combat/item/skill systems and or hurt or unbalance combat(PvM/PvP), skills in anyway.
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Sergul'zan_SP
Guest
I don't think it would. Especially if you can't cross between the two. Allowing the single passage from Trammel to Felucca allows you to build your character in Trammel..so what? Is it so important that our talented PvPers have the capability to PK people with 200 skill points total? It is basically a Siege Perilous shard with the option to build your char in Trammel, but no way back if you go to Felucca.
I personally love the challenge of the Siege Perilous ruleset...there is nothing on a regular shard that compares to it. That doesn't mean everybody does...maybe they don't want to PvP until their characters are already built?
My proposal appeals to all playstyles and prevents a lot of the damage done by a dual-facet shard with unlimited travel between the two.
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Evlar
Guest
You know, I wouldn't be opposed to something like Siege, all the lands, dungeons and creatures, just not the AoS items and of course... I prefer a single, open, sandbox facet.
I do like exploring the lands and although we've discussed the downside of population dispersal having lots of lands, I think there's a potential benefit.
Let's assume that if a classic shard launches, that it will be pretty well populated. Now although it's great to see areas busy, having just original Sosaria might be a little cramped for such a potentially well populated shard. Imagine for a moment that you have a shard with a similar population to Atlantic, yet only have the original Sosaria landmasses. Off the top of my head, the potential problems I see there are housing placement and the inability for players who might not want to focus mainly on PvP, to avoid confrontation with those who do.
Larger lands in some respects, reduces the chances of bottleneck areas. Clearly certain dungeons as always, may be more popular than others. If you have all the dungeons and lands, groups that play as PK's can't be everywhere at once, right? That gives those who might want to play more PvM, with less chance of PK encounters, a chance to avoud getting ganked.
Although I never really had any problems with PK's back in the day (I always preferred to talk or stand up to other players rather than just run/recall away), I appreciate others did "suffer". More "open" space would statistically reduce the chances of PK encounters potentially, therefore perhaps enhancing the chances for players to explore all play-styles more.
In essence, it might be something a bit like Siege, but without the AoS content. I don't personally see a problem with that, but am interested to see what others think. Likewise, I wonder if that would be easier for the devs to implement, depending on how easy or difficult it would be to "switch off" AoS item properties?
I do like exploring the lands and although we've discussed the downside of population dispersal having lots of lands, I think there's a potential benefit.
Let's assume that if a classic shard launches, that it will be pretty well populated. Now although it's great to see areas busy, having just original Sosaria might be a little cramped for such a potentially well populated shard. Imagine for a moment that you have a shard with a similar population to Atlantic, yet only have the original Sosaria landmasses. Off the top of my head, the potential problems I see there are housing placement and the inability for players who might not want to focus mainly on PvP, to avoid confrontation with those who do.
Larger lands in some respects, reduces the chances of bottleneck areas. Clearly certain dungeons as always, may be more popular than others. If you have all the dungeons and lands, groups that play as PK's can't be everywhere at once, right? That gives those who might want to play more PvM, with less chance of PK encounters, a chance to avoud getting ganked.
Although I never really had any problems with PK's back in the day (I always preferred to talk or stand up to other players rather than just run/recall away), I appreciate others did "suffer". More "open" space would statistically reduce the chances of PK encounters potentially, therefore perhaps enhancing the chances for players to explore all play-styles more.
In essence, it might be something a bit like Siege, but without the AoS content. I don't personally see a problem with that, but am interested to see what others think. Likewise, I wonder if that would be easier for the devs to implement, depending on how easy or difficult it would be to "switch off" AoS item properties?
No Trammel and all the crutches that came with it, IMO.
If they do a classic shard, and it's popular, then they can consider another classic shard with consensual only PVP and stealing. (Basically only order/chaos, and maybe factions.)
I think two shards would be better than one shard with Felucca and Trammel. The classic rules should apply to both shards and no push through monsters that make PvMing rather a breeze. There will be all the other shards for that stuff. (Will it lead to some blocking by players? Sure, but they won't be able to loot each other unless in Guild PvP mode.)
That way people who want to try and recreate the challenge and community of old UO will have an option to participate in either shard, but will have to have different characters on both.
If they do a classic shard, and it's popular, then they can consider another classic shard with consensual only PVP and stealing. (Basically only order/chaos, and maybe factions.)
I think two shards would be better than one shard with Felucca and Trammel. The classic rules should apply to both shards and no push through monsters that make PvMing rather a breeze. There will be all the other shards for that stuff. (Will it lead to some blocking by players? Sure, but they won't be able to loot each other unless in Guild PvP mode.)
That way people who want to try and recreate the challenge and community of old UO will have an option to participate in either shard, but will have to have different characters on both.
Wow a big thread, this must be important! Lets hope they implement all the ideas from shard babble threads too huh?
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Evlar
Guest
Stratics is but the tip of the iceberg.
I'm all for adding the 'updates' like the begging rares ect, those don't effect the 'classic vs production' at all. But it's hard to hammer out what people want and don't want =/
I suggested many times it should include Items and little systems that have been brought in that are not unbalancing to combat/skills/PvM/PvP in anyway, you know the good things we have got throughout the years.
It would be pretty cool to have a silver vanq Bukuto, or Ornate axe, or an invulnerability samurai Plate suit.
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Sergul'zan_SP
Guest
I think it would be awesome to have necromancy and chivalry during the Pre-AoS era.
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
rolleyes:
I don't see how a classic shard could have trammel, as I've said in the past the very nature of trammel marked the beginning of a new era, it completely changed the manner in which the game was played, in my mind it was the first big drop off from classic.
Even if all of our ideas were scrapped and the devs said just pick one original UO or T2A, I would be happier with that than for them to say for example "well if trammel is the consensus then that's what we will do".
Oil and water as far as I am concerned on the matter, now if they later want to do a pre-aos trammel I am all for it. I just feel like us vets who have been let down since ren have been waiting a lot longer to get something we really want.
Even if all of our ideas were scrapped and the devs said just pick one original UO or T2A, I would be happier with that than for them to say for example "well if trammel is the consensus then that's what we will do".
Oil and water as far as I am concerned on the matter, now if they later want to do a pre-aos trammel I am all for it. I just feel like us vets who have been let down since ren have been waiting a lot longer to get something we really want.
/signed
Still need the trammel land mass. Be more of fel chaos and fel order lands. Your account house placement deems what side that is. Face it, if this classic shard is going to be so "Bob's your Uncle" popular you'll need the extra housing space. And extra shards of type would be no help.
I will remain in candy land and stroke my spell reflection charged plate helm.
I will remain in candy land and stroke my spell reflection charged plate helm.
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Nihilus
Guest
I'm one of many silent watchers of these classic threads on Stratics, I say many because there are enough threads on various websites like this all asking the same questions and wanting the same thing; the old classic UO back.
No doubt in my mind that if a classic shard does get the green light, it should 100% NOT include trammel...the mere definition of Classic in the broad sense means pre-trammel. If people want some experimental hybrid shard with fel & tram redone, then there are plenty of unofficial ones out there, (and ask most UO vets, what UO is now has deviated so much from its roots it could now itself be called an experimental hybrid.. ninjas, samurai, elves...you couldn't dream that up).
UO now is a prime example (1st of its kind) of a product running so long that the inevitable accumulation of "small tweaks" over the longterm has led to severe over-engineering and complete mutation from what made it good in the first place....In fact UO's transformation has been so severe it actually changed sub-genre from a sandbox MMORPG to a theme-park MMO (yes I left off RPG on purpose). A blunt and fitting analogy would be Michael Jackson's cosmetic surgery over the years and the resultant transformation; in the end we all just wish he had left it alone.
If this Classic shard turns out to be what it "could" be potentially with a little common sense and learning from past mistakes, then I would re-sub in a heart beat for life. a caveat being that it would not receive too many further "tweaks".
Though not perfect, a rough diamond, is still a diamond non-the-less and 13 years on, there is still no game offering the content that T2A UO had. This itself is the problem and why people are crying for a classic shard. If the genre had moved forward and not back, we would all be playing UO 2/3 or some other title that hooked us like classic UO. But because no developer has managed to recreate that recipe, we are forced to grovel for the old faithful back. Believe me when I say, I wish there was a decent alternative that didn't involve spaceships and falling asleep at my PC while mining asteroids, but there just isn't.
If EA still cannot understand there is still money to be made and doesn't green light this, I'll be playing IPY. If you don't know what those 3 letters mean, I'm not going into it here, but its coming back and perhaps that will be what those of us wanting the golden years of UO back again can look forward to.
No doubt in my mind that if a classic shard does get the green light, it should 100% NOT include trammel...the mere definition of Classic in the broad sense means pre-trammel. If people want some experimental hybrid shard with fel & tram redone, then there are plenty of unofficial ones out there, (and ask most UO vets, what UO is now has deviated so much from its roots it could now itself be called an experimental hybrid.. ninjas, samurai, elves...you couldn't dream that up).
UO now is a prime example (1st of its kind) of a product running so long that the inevitable accumulation of "small tweaks" over the longterm has led to severe over-engineering and complete mutation from what made it good in the first place....In fact UO's transformation has been so severe it actually changed sub-genre from a sandbox MMORPG to a theme-park MMO (yes I left off RPG on purpose). A blunt and fitting analogy would be Michael Jackson's cosmetic surgery over the years and the resultant transformation; in the end we all just wish he had left it alone.
If this Classic shard turns out to be what it "could" be potentially with a little common sense and learning from past mistakes, then I would re-sub in a heart beat for life. a caveat being that it would not receive too many further "tweaks".
Though not perfect, a rough diamond, is still a diamond non-the-less and 13 years on, there is still no game offering the content that T2A UO had. This itself is the problem and why people are crying for a classic shard. If the genre had moved forward and not back, we would all be playing UO 2/3 or some other title that hooked us like classic UO. But because no developer has managed to recreate that recipe, we are forced to grovel for the old faithful back. Believe me when I say, I wish there was a decent alternative that didn't involve spaceships and falling asleep at my PC while mining asteroids, but there just isn't.
If EA still cannot understand there is still money to be made and doesn't green light this, I'll be playing IPY. If you don't know what those 3 letters mean, I'm not going into it here, but its coming back and perhaps that will be what those of us wanting the golden years of UO back again can look forward to.
Does Classic mean ,no insurance ,house keys,no secures ,etc ....?
How much of the Old UO would you want and how much of the new UO would you import. I would agree NO TRAMMEL .Pure Classic UO would have to be defined further, but then the best thing would be no whiners . What you see is what you get
How much of the Old UO would you want and how much of the new UO would you import. I would agree NO TRAMMEL .Pure Classic UO would have to be defined further, but then the best thing would be no whiners . What you see is what you get
No thanks and trust me you are in the minority of players who would want this. I'll say again I don't mind at all, and in fact I support the devs going right behind the classic shard with a ren shard, I have no problem with that but please do not call a ren shard classic, it simply isn't it changed far to much in the game to be considered.
Basically I agree with Morgana, there are already twenty something "candy land" shards to select from, if a classic shard is launched it should be pre trammel, either T2A which seems to be the most popular or I would be fine with even pre T2A.
The reason I support a ren shard though is because I don't feel the need to force anything onto anyone else, also because I do understand that there are trammel players out there who just plain don't like post AoS gameplay and they deserve every chance to enjoy the game just as we do.
Insurance came after trammel if I remember correctly so no item insurance.
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Sergul'zan_SP
Guest
By Necromancy and Chivalry I mean the skills only, not the landmass. Malas is relatively useless once you take away the artifacts in Doom. I do favor the addition of Ilshenar.
Unless they market the classic shard as Siege Perilous, it must have trammel. I would jump at the opportunity to play on a classic Siege shard, but how many people can say that? The small vocal majority who refuse to admit that, while AoS ruined UO because it completely changed the game system from top to bottom, there were many changes that were necessary to attract a larger player base.
Trammel was one of those changes...while it certainly introduced issues in fel that should've been addressed early on, it also allowed an entire new class of player: The Trammy. I'm not saying that with disgust, it is a class of players that is critical to the success of UO. If you want to PvM, run a merchanting enterprise, or roleplay without harassment from annoying players who refuse to respect the playstyle of others, where do you go? Trammel. It's the facet for people who don't want to play the "Let's murder each other over and over for fun and then rub each others faces in the mud."
If implemented, a classic shard should appeal to all styles of play to maximize the return on profit. Rather than saying "omg trammel ruined uo we can't have it omg l337 r0xXor says no!," why don't you start stating what specific aspects you didn't like that Trammel introduced. There is certainly a mutually beneficial solution that can be achieved.
Don't make other people adapt to the style of play YOU want. Compromise and make the classic shard the best it can be. (in the aaaaar-my).
Unless they market the classic shard as Siege Perilous, it must have trammel. I would jump at the opportunity to play on a classic Siege shard, but how many people can say that? The small vocal majority who refuse to admit that, while AoS ruined UO because it completely changed the game system from top to bottom, there were many changes that were necessary to attract a larger player base.
Trammel was one of those changes...while it certainly introduced issues in fel that should've been addressed early on, it also allowed an entire new class of player: The Trammy. I'm not saying that with disgust, it is a class of players that is critical to the success of UO. If you want to PvM, run a merchanting enterprise, or roleplay without harassment from annoying players who refuse to respect the playstyle of others, where do you go? Trammel. It's the facet for people who don't want to play the "Let's murder each other over and over for fun and then rub each others faces in the mud."
If implemented, a classic shard should appeal to all styles of play to maximize the return on profit. Rather than saying "omg trammel ruined uo we can't have it omg l337 r0xXor says no!," why don't you start stating what specific aspects you didn't like that Trammel introduced. There is certainly a mutually beneficial solution that can be achieved.
Don't make other people adapt to the style of play YOU want. Compromise and make the classic shard the best it can be. (in the aaaaar-my).
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
What? You understand that Siege came late to the classic era, right? All of the original shards, and the beta, were no Trammel.
If that were the only alternative to the current game, then I would play that shard. However, I'd prefer a true classic shard, with multiple character slots, selling to NPCs, regular skill gains, etc.
I doubt you will find much in the way of numbers to back that claim up. In fact, if you take a look at subscription numbers in 1999 vs. 2005 (those dates chosen because they were firmly in the middle of their eras instead of the beginning) you will see that UO was on the decline.
It sounds to me like you are more of a fan of the current game. You have 26 shards that have Ilshenar, AoS, Necro, Chiv,etc. And you have Siege to play on which has all of those things in case you want them all and you don't want Trammel.
No one is suggesting that those shards be removed or changed here...so instead of saying that we are 'making other people adapt to the style of play WE want' ... you need to understand that all we are asking for is to not be made to adapt to the style of play YOU want. If you want Trammel, and Ilshenar, and Necro, and pastel colored ridable dogs...they are right there waiting for you, all you have to do is log in and go.
Classic UO fans cannot say the same.
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Renyard Foxenwyle
Guest
As I've stated before, I would like to see a lore driven reason to have Chivalry and Necromancy on a classic shard, simply because both skills are a core concept of Ultima Lore. Dupre one of the Avatars companions was a Paladin, even before Age of Shadows you could find NPC Paladins in Trinsic. In fact Trinsic is not only the City of Honor but also the classic "home" to paladins. Still don't understand why all of a sudden the paladin's home became Luna.
The Necromancers were major players in Pagan...and Ultima during the Age of Darkness. (first three ultimas not counting aklabeth), also if you remember correctly they were going to implement Necromancy during the classic era, to the point that necro regs were spawning on mobs (Blackmoor anyone?).
My perfect hybrid-classic shard?
The Necromancers were major players in Pagan...and Ultima during the Age of Darkness. (first three ultimas not counting aklabeth), also if you remember correctly they were going to implement Necromancy during the classic era, to the point that necro regs were spawning on mobs (Blackmoor anyone?).
My perfect hybrid-classic shard?
- Sosaria and the Lost Lands with housing allowed but limited in the Lost Lands
- Publish 4 style rules without Power Hour
- A lore driven balanced for the classic shard Chivalry and Necromancy
- Begging "rares" that were introduced with Mondains Legacy (it really should be expanded upon)
- Decorative "rares" such as the Braziers, Lamposts etc...
- Customizable housing (I was originally against this but I've seen too many awesome houses lately)
- The classic houses introduced with UO:R (Small stone tower, villa, marble w/patio etc...)
- Commodity Deeds
- Crafting Add-Ons for housing
- No NPC Interaction outside of Bucs/Jailing/Pillory/Bounty-Hunters/Roving Guards/Exile style of PK deterrents as opposed to Stat Loss and UMing counts off.
- Craftable Deco (such as the Large Table with Blue Cloth, Banners, Ankh's etc...)
- "Event in a Box" tokens purchasable from UOgamecodes that allow you to decorate for a player run event with non-permanent items.
- Mystic Llama Herders
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NorCal
Guest
QFT... Two shards classic and Ren would be much better then one shard with Fel and Tram. It's my opinion that is what should have been done way back in the day. It's how other games handle the problem of non-con vs. con pvp crowds. It's just a much better solution.
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
The problem is, if you release a Ren shard, in addition to "Classic" shard (T2A?)...then the open PvP shard will be empty because everyone wants Easy Mode.
If the devs put some things in place to make PKing less common, but not impossible, there is no need for two shards other than geographical location (ping times).
Having Trammel as an option, as proven by Fel in Ren, does two things:
- Moves the majority of the playerbase to the easier area (Trammel)
- Creates boredom amongst those players because there is no challenge or risk.
That leads back to the shard just turning into an item based grind all over again. What's the point?
If you want an item-based, Trammel shard...why not just play the game the way it is now? That's what a Ren-based "classic" shard would turn into, or it would simply die in 2 years.
If the devs put some things in place to make PKing less common, but not impossible, there is no need for two shards other than geographical location (ping times).
Having Trammel as an option, as proven by Fel in Ren, does two things:
- Moves the majority of the playerbase to the easier area (Trammel)
- Creates boredom amongst those players because there is no challenge or risk.
That leads back to the shard just turning into an item based grind all over again. What's the point?
If you want an item-based, Trammel shard...why not just play the game the way it is now? That's what a Ren-based "classic" shard would turn into, or it would simply die in 2 years.
N
NorCal
Guest
I don't want to play a Ren based classic shard. It's a much better idea then a classic shard with Fel and Tram though. Seperating the playstyles isn't a bad thing and works in other games. I don't think it would make the classic shard empty to have a Ren shard it would just insure that the people want to be there and understand what they are getting into.
Look at the argueing that is still going on over PKing even though UO has been a consentual PvP game from the time Ren came out. The moongate is a pvp switch and just reading these boards for a few weeks I still see people crying about having to go to Fel just for a optional event or spawns. I wouldn't want them on a classic shard they would eventually become a very vocal minority and ask for changes to non-con pvp, stealing, etc... Having Tram and Fel on a single server is bad design that's all I'm saying. If there are enough players that hate Fel, but also don't like what AoS did to UO, then it's the best option to have a Ren shard and a classic shard. Not saying that will be the case, but even if they make a classic shard if it has Tram I won't play it.
Look at the argueing that is still going on over PKing even though UO has been a consentual PvP game from the time Ren came out. The moongate is a pvp switch and just reading these boards for a few weeks I still see people crying about having to go to Fel just for a optional event or spawns. I wouldn't want them on a classic shard they would eventually become a very vocal minority and ask for changes to non-con pvp, stealing, etc... Having Tram and Fel on a single server is bad design that's all I'm saying. If there are enough players that hate Fel, but also don't like what AoS did to UO, then it's the best option to have a Ren shard and a classic shard. Not saying that will be the case, but even if they make a classic shard if it has Tram I won't play it.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
You won't have to worry about that.
Trammel players wouldn't play Classic. I have done enough research, here and elsewhere, to support that position with little room for doubt.
Not long back, I posted a thread about PvP and why people don't like it. The results of the thread were pretty much as expected. People that enjoy Trammel generally want no part of PvP, or risk of any kind for that matter. There are some that might try it, but most of the Trammel players in the game simply have no desire to be involved with PvP for various reasons. And as such, all of the current shards, except for Siege/Mugen, cater specifically to their preferred style of play. The evolution of Ultima Online is the way it is because it evolved to suit those very players. Your example of the event that "required" people to go to Fel is a prime example. Some of them did it, most just refused and complained about it. Personally, I believe that event was the devs testing the waters, so to speak.
The results are in...the average UO player that enjoys the current game, has little interest in playing in an open PvP environment...even with certain restrictions. They want ZERO risk, and they want ZERO pvp...essentially, they want full control over everything that happens to them in game, with no chance to lose anything. Certainly, this does not apply to EVERY UO player...but based on what I have seen, it does apply to probably 80-90% of the current playerbase (excluding Siege players).
What does this mean? Does it mean that a Classic Shard should include Trammel? Or that a Classic Shard is a "waste of resources"?
That depends entirely on what the objective of such a shard would be.
If the objective of a Classic Shard is to satisfy the current players...then yes, it either needs Trammel, or doesn't need to exist at all.
If the objective is to bring back players that left...then offering Trammel as an option defeats the entire purpose of the shard.
The reason many of the target audience for a Classic Shard left in the first place was due to Trammel. PKs chased away many players, and some of those returned when Trammel launched. However, the PKs and Anti-PKs got bored and quit after that. Those are the players a Classic Shard is most likely to attract.
So it really comes down to what the devs are after. If they are seeking to create this shard just for the fun of it, and make something different available to current players, then by all means...Trammel it up.
But if they are seeking to increase subscriptions by bringing back old players...then a non-Trammel/non-AoS shard is the only way to go...otherwise, no one is going to leave their free shards and other games to come back to UO.
E
eekamouse
Guest
More than true.
While I agree with you in premise I don't think it would hurt classic as much as you may think. Also when it comes down to it, what is more likely to happen on the matter of a classic shard, that we can all nail down a suitable hybrid when you have so many individuals saying "x is a deal breaker for me and I'll take my ball and play elsewhere if this is done" or that we will be presented with T2A or original launch either with bug fixes of course.
Also in the current mmorpg environment you have to separate play styles, the precedent has been set and players have a choice and have had one for a long time. I don't agree with it personally as I see way to much influence on design by players but you go where the money is when it comes to business.
There is no longer a free ride for those wolves who never wanted to fight with other wolves in the first place, those players who only ever wanted to slaughter unskilled pvpers, you had your day I hope you enjoyed it because it will likely never happen again.
I wouldn't mind seeing a UO:R based shard............ Just W/O Trammel. Besides Trammel being merged with existing servers, UO:R was a pretty good expansion overall.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
Allow me to set the record straight...
I have no issue with the UO:R mechanics...I just don't want Trammel.
Again, if players are given two options, Easy Mode...and Difficult Mode, the majority, in a game like UO, will ALWAYS choose Easy Mode.
N
NorCal
Guest
Maybe I confused people by saying Ren shard. All I was trying to point out was pick a time most poeple agree the classic shard should be T2A or whatever and if there is enough interest have 2 servers one pvp the other pvm. Bam no Tram/Fel debate needed.
I also don't think you can judge from a poll here if there will be people that would play a classic pvm shard or not. Anyone who posts here is a vocal minority, even if they claim to speak for the majority as some opposed to a classic shard claim they do. Even past customers might want pvm. I knew people that quit because of PKs, Trammel, AoS, new games ect... Personally I didn't like how they handled the split in UO:R it didn't make me quit, but the nail in the coffin was AoS.
I also don't think you can judge from a poll here if there will be people that would play a classic pvm shard or not. Anyone who posts here is a vocal minority, even if they claim to speak for the majority as some opposed to a classic shard claim they do. Even past customers might want pvm. I knew people that quit because of PKs, Trammel, AoS, new games ect... Personally I didn't like how they handled the split in UO:R it didn't make me quit, but the nail in the coffin was AoS.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
Anyone that posts anything is a "vocal minority" if you consider the fact that most UO players do not post here.
I know people that quit due to PKs as well...I know people that quit due to Trammel...I know people that quit due to AoS...
But the if you look at what Classic UO was, there is no doubt...the target audience would be the people that quit due to Trammel and AoS...not people that quit due to PKs. Those people went to EQ, AC, WoW, and will likely bounce from game to game until they die or get too old to play games.
Should EA make a Ren shard? Maybe, if they release a Classic shard and it becomes wildly successful, otherwise you have two shards competing for the same market...and as I said above, Easy Mode FTW.
*cracks knuckles* been away from this thread for to long, let's see where we are at... Yup, Morgana is still putting people in their places
but besides that... What are we waiting for! let's start from the start of UO and build from there! kk, we are ready for the server now please
but besides that... What are we waiting for! let's start from the start of UO and build from there! kk, we are ready for the server now please
R
Rakoth
Guest
Holy crap on a flying wagon, it is? I just got more excited for UO (in general) than I've been in a long, long time.
E
Evlar
Guest
No Trammel
+
No AoS items
=
Happy Evlar
(I'll roll with whatever else is there quite happily thank you)
+
No AoS items
=
Happy Evlar
(I'll roll with whatever else is there quite happily thank you)
G
Gellor
Guest
I'm definitely in favor of a "classic" type shard.
To me, some of the things I would like to see in the "classic":
1) No trammel. To me, the game was a LOT more fun without tram. More player interaction. More excitement. More anticipation.
2) No additional landmasses beyond t2a. To me, all the additional land masses being added dilute player interaction. Very sad when you can just sit at one spot and not see someone for hours on end.
3) No Ao$ items. Once those got introduced, the game became more about "uber" items. I miss the days of GM armor and worrying about whether the agapite suit I was wearing made me look fruity
None of this: am I 100% lrc, 40lmc, 45dci, 70 resists, 18mr, etc junk.
I'm a little bit up in the air on:
1) Skills from necro/chiv on up. To me, it took OSI/EA "forever" to balance the skills after they added them in. OTOH, they do "force" a diverse character.
2) Item insurance. I can see it as "being needed" thanks to all the uber stuff. But if no "uber" items, no need for it. Maybe allow one PBD.
3) Skill scrolls. On the one hand, it forced people into more specialized templates with 6x120. So it is kind of cool that way. OTOH, a 7x100 crafter was a dream back then
4) House keys, lock down items, etc. I definitely remember being ultra paranoid with house keys. I also remember monsters spawning in my house more than once and destroying/looting everything.
5) Repair deeds. While convenient, they take away from player interaction.
One of my favorite things back in the day was seeing how quick I could get my 1k gold in a popular spot and leave before a red showed up to kill me. Yup, I died a LOT. But it was a lot of fun. And sometimes, I did get away
I also loved playing my crafter and making suits/repairing stuff for people.
To me, some of the things I would like to see in the "classic":
1) No trammel. To me, the game was a LOT more fun without tram. More player interaction. More excitement. More anticipation.
2) No additional landmasses beyond t2a. To me, all the additional land masses being added dilute player interaction. Very sad when you can just sit at one spot and not see someone for hours on end.
3) No Ao$ items. Once those got introduced, the game became more about "uber" items. I miss the days of GM armor and worrying about whether the agapite suit I was wearing made me look fruity
None of this: am I 100% lrc, 40lmc, 45dci, 70 resists, 18mr, etc junk.I'm a little bit up in the air on:
1) Skills from necro/chiv on up. To me, it took OSI/EA "forever" to balance the skills after they added them in. OTOH, they do "force" a diverse character.
2) Item insurance. I can see it as "being needed" thanks to all the uber stuff. But if no "uber" items, no need for it. Maybe allow one PBD.
3) Skill scrolls. On the one hand, it forced people into more specialized templates with 6x120. So it is kind of cool that way. OTOH, a 7x100 crafter was a dream back then
4) House keys, lock down items, etc. I definitely remember being ultra paranoid with house keys. I also remember monsters spawning in my house more than once and destroying/looting everything.
5) Repair deeds. While convenient, they take away from player interaction.
One of my favorite things back in the day was seeing how quick I could get my 1k gold in a popular spot and leave before a red showed up to kill me. Yup, I died a LOT. But it was a lot of fun. And sometimes, I did get away
I also loved playing my crafter and making suits/repairing stuff for people.
R
Renyard Foxenwyle
Guest
What is he saying? I know he's trying to say something but I just don't understand it! Let me get my calculator out. God I hate all those percentages and stuff on every piece of gear we have now.
Honestly I'd be happy with any shard as long as it didn't have the Age of Shadows system of items on it.
I kind of feel depressed today because of nostalgia. I stumbled across a fragment of an old website devoted to the Crusaders of Britannia. Only 3 pages of the old site, but it had a list of members at the time, as well as some history and other things. It saddens me to see the names of people that I named friend who have gone to other games, or just dropped off the face of the earth. I wonder if they would still be in the game if it wasn't for the changes that EA/Orgin made to this game.
I saved those webpages...to bad our screen shots where no longer there.
E
Evlar
Guest
Sod convenience!5) Repair deeds. While convenient, they take away from player interaction.
Too much has become "convenient" in this game. So much so, that I see little point in playing.
I like some effort. Challenge. Interaction.
That, and if they have repair deeds, I'd look a little foolish stood at the forge in Britain on my own.
R
Renyard Foxenwyle
Guest
Personally the only kind of "deed" in reference to crafting services that I could support on a classic shard is the Commodity deed. Makes it much easier to conveniently sell large amounts of resources to crafters.
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