"Can UO developers put controls on the games economy?"

[jill]

Hello..

I've been playing Uo for about 11 yrs now and i'm very concerned about its economy. Over inflated prices seem to loom everywhere.. Gold is given freely and camped for in the game unendingly and players are dropping unable to keep up or start up in the game. Its really hurting not just the existing players but the game as a whole. And its not just UO suffering from this.. power players and gold hoarders are in all the moorph games.. its a ongoing problem and should really be looked at seriously to keep UO as the longest lasting moorph in history.

I might have a solution (or suggestion), how about a gold conversion in the game.. vendors will no longer sell items for gold but for a new currency. This new currency can be traded for , converting gold to drachma's for instance). In the game gold will be written out as a reward and loot will consist of drachma's. However, in a much more leaner form then we have today. Skilled monsters might have from 1-10 drachma's with smaller skill monsters having gold still which can be converted into drachma's at say 1000 to 1 or more.

This would be a new trading currency. Although it might make alot of enemies at first it could be a way to bring back new players into the game, allowing them to keep pace.

Also, removing the blessed items and insurance could be very valuable to the game since imbuing is now active. Removing items from the game as well as gold for repurchase. Artifacts can not be repaired..

The games just turned into more of a collectors field rather then a cooperative guild/friends game as it was intended. I would have suggested a silver currency but i know that there is those in factions collecting that up.. so that wouldn't be a fair conversion for gold.. it would have to be a completely new currency.

In my opinion, it just seems crazy for a person to instantly acheive or mine items worth millions of gold each day. Its like daily lottery only for those individuals or those who can afford to be at the right spawn to grab up those items that are deemed rare so they can be overpriced on some vendor within the hour. PLUS they get the advantage of huge amounts of gold for the kill. Too much.. way too much and out of control for any game.

I could understand this if it wasn't a multiplayer game.. since those games can be played and replayed over and over with new characters and a new start. But in a game that can continue for years.. its really over kill to allow players to acheive so much and for that to have such a negative impact on attaining new players to the game.


So my question i guess is... "Can UO developers put controls on the games economy to better extend the game for new players and extended life?"

I'm sure there are lots more ideas out there, i'm kinda writing this in frustration so please forgive.


Wish you well..and thank you for these forums..

Jill

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Please lock this.
Not another.

Real quick.
Inflation is not an issue. It looks bad but it has nothing to do with the economy. Why? A new player can step in. Go to chamspawn or AS. Get an artie. Sell it for millions.

The amount of gold in game is relfected in prices.

Change the currency over as you say does nothing.

1 GLIBBER = 1 million gold.
If you have 100 million gold you now have 100 GLIBBERS. It might feel better but is the same.

mentally divide everything by 10. When you see something for 1 million pretend it cost 100k. That might make your feel better.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I agree with RavenWinterHawk.

Case in point, compare UO with (for example) WoW. You MIGHT say that WoW prices are lower than UO's... but are they REALLY?

UO has a single base unit currency... Gold. (Let's leave Faction silver out for this)
WoW has a teired system with the base unit being Copper.

100 copper = 1 silver, 100 silver = 1 gold, so 10,000 copper = 1 gold.

Now if something costs 1,000 gold in WoW, it really costs 10,000,000 copper.

All of a sudden, if you equate UO's base with WoW's base... the numbers aren't really all that different anymore, are they?

UO still needs a good number of OPTIONAL gold sinks though. That I'm on board with, but punative payments just to maintain the status quo, or artificial limitations on what you can accomplish, I'll ALWAYS be against those. I'm too much of a Free Market type to support those.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Sadly, RWH is correct. In fact, adding a more valuable currency, or higher denomination if you will, will only compound the problem.

What has caused the hyper-inflation is scripting + artifacts. Scripters provide gold for cash for cheap, and artifacts are worth millions of gold, and they drop fairly easily.

The only real, long term solution to the problem is to attack the need for multi-million gold items. Imbuing has done that to an extent, but as long as artifacts and uber high-end gear are essentially a requirement, this problem will only get worse.

With each new expansion comes newer, more powerful items...and newer, more powerful creatures one has to kill to get these items. It's a self destructive cycle unfortunately, because as older items are essentially made obsolete, they lose their value...and as they lose their value, the newer items gain in value due to demand. Non-power gamers are forced to deal with gold sellers in order to afford the mega-uber-high end items that everyone else is running around with so that they can participate in high end spawns in hopes of getting the mega-uber-high end items.

This cycle will eventually play itself out, and players will tire of spending real life money to obtain items. It won't be a sudden thing, and I believe we are already seeing the beginning of it now.

The devs need to step in and make crafting viable and competitive, and unfortunately...this will lead to a massive devaluation of artifacts and formerly high end items. New and returning players are faced with, in some cases, billions of gold in costs to obtain the latest and greatest items...and many of them balk at that, and just quit.

So in summary...don't change the currency...change the need for such high a volume of currency by attacking the problem at its root.

 

[jill]

If i remember my game history correctly. At the games beginning the game did have a balanced economy. But as those players collected gold it put a strain on the amount of gold you got on kills... most monsters (lower) give no gold but only insufficicant items since gold wasn't available. This didn't last long obviously.. and gold was increased in the game... and later no expanded to as it is now.. with no shard limit.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

EVERY MMOG is PERFECTLY balanced up to and until the first player character is created and sets foot in game... it's ALL downhill from there.

 

[jill]

Are there any specific things that might put controls on the games economy?

#1 Since imbuing is in play, could we agree that blessed/insurance of armor and weapons could be removed from the game?

#2 Artifacts cannot be repaired?

#3 Controls placed on LRC (possibly based on skill level, or lowering its max. to like 70%)?
We still have crafted items that can be worn or carried for failures.

 

[the 4th man]

Please lock this.
Not another.

Real quick.
Inflation is not an issue. It looks bad but it has nothing to do with the economy. Why? A new player can step in. Go to chamspawn or AS. Get an artie. Sell it for millions.

The amount of gold in game is relfected in prices.

Change the currency over as you say does nothing.

1 GLIBBER = 1 million gold.
If you have 100 million gold you now have 100 GLIBBERS. It might feel better but is the same.

mentally divide everything by 10. When you see something for 1 million pretend it cost 100k. That might make your feel better.

Hawk, you're a laugh.....reason being, someone wants to discuss something and you come along with some virtual economic holier than thou knowledge.

Try again. First off, everyone has the right to post without being humiliated by some school yard bully.

Secondly, a young player CAN chime in on a champ.....it's all too assumptious.
That's what YOU would do.

The amount of gold in game is reflected by mentality, not by prices. Not all players buy gold, but those that do, especially grown, adult, men &women, leaves alot to be said about who they really are.

I agree on this, another currency wil not reduce the pathetic nature of UO's economy. As long as there are bottom feeders who farm gold (see painted caves)....there will be some fool who buys it.

Unless we can rob vendors or stick up banks, or break into players houses.....the economy will always remain the joke it is.

WoW?? Anyone still play that?? Maybe you mean Zelda?

later

 

[BeefSupreme]

Huh? I came back in October. Had maybe 120k between my characters.
I'm close to a billion now. Wasn't even hard.

 

[Yen Sid]

Are there any specific things that might put controls on the games economy?

#1 Since imbuing is in play, could we agree that blessed/insurance of armor and weapons could be removed from the game?

Umm, no. Go play Siege. I work hard for my stuff and would like to keep it thanks. Thats why I play on a shard with insurance.

#2 Artifacts cannot be repaired?

No lol, when was the last time you got an AoF drop? I never have, and 10-15mil for one is out of my price range to purchase another. Not to mention prices will skyrocket on said artifact(s) if they cannot be repaired.

#3 Controls placed on LRC (possibly based on skill level, or lowering its max. to like 70%)?
We still have crafted items that can be worn or carried for failures.

I don't see a point to this seeming regs are cheap and easy to come by just doing T-maps if you want them for free. And arcane clothing.

Don't mean to rain on your parade so to speak but none of this sounds good to me at all.

 

[Jhym]

There's still no reason to re-engineer how gold works. The ONLY reason I'd come on board for a revaluing of the gold standard (which is what some are actually asking for) is IF the basic prices for required commodities were too high.

By required commodities, I'm talking reagents and some basic materials that everyone uses (bolts, arrows, iron, etc.)

Ah, but now you are arguing that the prices on some of those items rise all the time. True, but, and a this is a big but, you can personally make all of those resources yourself for little cost.

Arrows at 35 gold each on a vendor? Go to forest, kill four birds, gather feathers; chop wood for 1 minute or so, gather 100 logs, turn to shafts, then make into 100 arrows. Took you 1-2 minutes, thus no problem.

Mining/lumberjacking/leather you can argue are a bit expensive, but this comes after years of low, commodity pricing brought on by scripting. Some of the prices we are seeing are directly linked to the actual effort to get the materials now, so I have to grudgingly agree with them.

In any case, yes, there used to be gold restrictions, largely on how much a vendor could buy from you. They removed the restrictions because it didn't really solve anything. Most players sell to each other in any case, and they dropped the pricing for items you could make large profits off of as time has gone by.

In the long run, however, changing the gold system wouldn't help anyone and largely would hurt those who don't have a lot. The pricing disparities we see should correct themselves over time; and highly desired items will always be so, whether in gold or in barter.

 

[jill]

Bahhh... wants to cry.. (just teasing)

 

[omgmir]

Meh.

Inflation is fine. Everything costs more sure. Everyone has more too.

I came back about a month and a half ago and playing very casually i've gone from a fresh char with 1k in my bag to about 150 mil in assets. It's not hard, if I can do it anyone can.

Hell just buying SA like any new player will do gives you tokens you can sell for 10 mil.

Sorry, I don't buy the 'new people can't catch up' line. Sure if they play the game the way it was played 10 years ago they will never be able to afford anything.. but that's their fault for not playing the game the way it is nowadays. Join a PvM guild, do champs, peerless, and Doom. Collect millions.

 

[jill]

I guess my play style is all wrong then.. i've played almost 11 yrs.. and i'm very conservative with my gold.. rarely spending it.. and i've accumulated about 15 million amongst all my characters.

I enjoy fishing... and gardening.. fighting i don't really like!!!.. and never had a mage or tamer.


<giggles> maybe we could share in this economy.... i take uo checks... <only teasing guys>

 

[Beer_Cayse]

Gotta go with Raven on this ... it won't solve the farming issue at all. Dealing with gold inputs of various levels **might** have an impact. That's an input faucet that keeps getting opened up more.

I just can't offer a good method or substitute to my idea ... nor do I think yours is acceptable.

Sorry.

 

[Tjalle]

UO needs more gold sinks, that´s for sure...

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I have about 10 million lying in my bank, and it never gets more and it never gets less. Since Imbuing was introduced, I have no need for gold anymore. I can make everything I need, and most of the stuff is artifact quality. The good thing is that everyone has the chance to gather the required ingredients. If I accidentally win an artifact from a creature, I am happy and build it into my suit. But Imbuing took the pressure out of the whole equipment thing. There's really no need to spend millions on a piece of equipment anymore.

To my opinion, gold has become quite useless.

 

[jill]

Do yous think its fair that when you kill a monster and get a rare/artifact that you still get the mass amounts of gold with it?

 

[Old Man of UO]

Do yous think its fair that when you kill a monster and get a rare/artifact that you still get the mass amounts of gold with it?

Yes... quite fair I think. The value of the artifacts are subjective and change, while gold is still the main way to negotiate value.

EA/Mythic does indeed occasionally put controls on items values. They increase the drop rates, or make it drop on more creatures, or make it craft-able (as Hawkeye_Pike points out). Another way to cap an item's value is to make it spawn on NPC vendors. Every single one of these methods has unintended consequences - players just don't usually react as expected.

Sometimes I don't like see inflated prices on vendors, but if it isn't an item that we absolutely need, then I think the Developers should leave it up to the players to determine the value.

 

[In Flames]

I think the only thing our economy needs is a bit of a tweak. Since the amount of gold has increased greatly over the years, it's value has fallen greatly as well. I know Experimental has atleast 3 chests full of checks in her home.

The way I see it, we need 2 things.

Gold needs to be able to stack in amounts larger than 60k, and checks need to be allowed to go up to 10m, maybe even 100m.

 

[Cetric]

I challenge any of you naysayers, to make a new char on a new shard, and run around in this game as if you had no idea what anything was. when you started with 1000 gold in your pack, no armor or anything worth a crap, run to the cemetary and have a rough time earing 30 gold, then go to luna, look at a vendor, and see a arty for 500k (that to most of us is something we would drop on the ground) you will think..holy ****...how can i..

So to the guy who mentioned the enw player go to the champ spawn.. yout hink that new player is going to power farm his skills up like we do? have a suit to even compete with lower level monsters, or a know how of any game mechanic to pull it off?

Yea, right..ok. I agree with the OP, everything some how needs to be scaled down by a 0 or 2.

 

[Tanivar]

I posted this in another topic a couple days back. Wouldn't be popular with our gold hoarders but it would get the economy fixed.

Re: 100 mil max price on vendors
They should just make each item so it can be sold only once on a vendor. This will prevent people from buying out everything available of an item from vendors and then selling it for a 'realistic & reasonable' far higher price on their own vendors.

The UO economy needs to be fixed, not broken further. If larger payments became possible it would just get prices jacked up faster, and the mega-millionares would be whining for 100 trillion max prices in a couple of years.

How about a major alchemy disaster event where all gold converts to iron, followed by an economic crash? The highest price on a vendor becomes 1000 gp and monsters no longer carry more than 1 gp per 100 hp it has. We all wind up with our characters, their skills, items, and only dust bunnies in our money stashes.

__________________

Gold from monsters would be scarce. Most gold would be gained by selling loot & resources. The prices would need to be dropped a lot of course.

Could the money system be expanded to include other value coins? Say 100 copper coins equal 1 gold, and 100 gold equal 1 Mitheral. Copper coins are typically carried by monsters with less than 1,000 hp, Gold is typical on monsters with 1,001 to 10,000 hp, Mitheral is typical on 10,000+ hp monsters.

 

[longshanks]

This is in no way an easy issue to fix. if in fact it even needs fixing.

your arguement is based on the fact that prices for things are out of control, but what exactly is out of controll?

in the case of navrey the nite eyes glasses have sharply come down in price.
the tangle has not.

nor has the slither or the medusa floor tile.

doom arties, the desireable ones are holding there own.

fort powder has increased in price buy as much as 10 x what you could buy it for prior to imbuing. i would tell you crafters are very pleased about this.

essense price's have dropped by half of what they were.

the power scroll market is flat, though mysticism has made focus scrolls desirable.

event items such as conjuror's garb and trinkets have gone up, call it double for garb's and 4x for trinkets.

peerless drops are stable.

tokuno dye prices have dropped by more than 1/2 with the introduction of dyes.

vet rewards are stable.

house teleporter prices have dropped by almost 1/2

thats just a short cross section of some of the things that i would term as being desirable, some being deco and some being pertinent to building a good suit.

i do not see runaway inflation. if you want to argue a high cost of gold required for a new players entry into the market, maybe you have some valid point, however we guilded a new player and got him hooked up with a decent suit and through spawning in 3 short months he has done very well for himself financially.

so im not necessarily of the opinion that the economy is out of whack.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Inflation is not an issue. It looks bad but it has nothing to do with the economy. Why? A new player can step in. Go to chamspawn or AS. Get an artie. Sell it for millions.

lol? You expect a new player to be able to go to a champ spawn and get an artie?

 

[omgmir]

I challenge any of you naysayers, to make a new char on a new shard, and run around in this game as if you had no idea what anything was. when you started with 1000 gold in your pack, no armor or anything worth a crap, run to the cemetary and have a rough time earing 30 gold, then go to luna, look at a vendor, and see a arty for 500k (that to most of us is something we would drop on the ground) you will think..holy ****...how can i..

So to the guy who mentioned the enw player go to the champ spawn.. yout hink that new player is going to power farm his skills up like we do? have a suit to even compete with lower level monsters, or a know how of any game mechanic to pull it off?

Yea, right..ok. I agree with the OP, everything some how needs to be scaled down by a 0 or 2.

These are knowledge problems, not game mechanic problems. You give the example of a completely clueless player and think we should change the game because this player can't afford things? Maybe they should focus on not being clueless first. My post was 100% truth, I just started fresh after not playing since at least 2004 and I adjusted no problems. That's what the internet and the multiplayer in 'Massive Multiplayer Online' is for. The information is there for the taking. Do a search on "ways to make gold" and count the threads that exist on the subject and give me a number, i'll wait. The same clueless player or someone who purposely chooses not to do things in the game that reward vast sums of gold or powerful items will end up the same way in any game, this is not exclusive to UO.

lol? You expect a new player to be able to go to a champ spawn and get an artie?

Yes. Happens almost every day in my guild. Maybe the issue is with you?

The OP clearly stated his spends his time fishing and gardening and has never made a tamer or a mage template yet blames inflation for why he can't afford any high priced items. You might as well drop out of school in the 6th grade and never get your GED or attend college then wonder why you can't afford a ferrari.

Is inflation ridiculous? Oh hell yes it's ridiculous. Even popular skill 120 scrolls (widely regarded as a dead market) sell for what would be an unheard of amount 10 years ago, welcome to mmo economic evolution.

Do I think inflation is making new players quit the game? No. If they do it's because they're lazy and don't do their research. As I said in my previous post just buying Stygian Abyss rewards you tokens that sell for insane amounts to a newbie. You can buy a 18x18 the day you start the game if you're smart.

Key phrase 'if you're smart'.

 

[Viper09]

Right...a fix. You know that within a month or two of a "fix" of the economy in UO it will just be where it is currently at again.

 

[Cetric]

These are knowledge problems, not game mechanic problems. You give the example of a completely clueless player and think we should change the game because this player can't afford things? Maybe they should focus on not being clueless first. My post was 100% truth, I just started fresh after not playing since at least 2004 and I adjusted no problems. That's what the internet and the multiplayer in 'Massive Multiplayer Online' is for. The information is there for the taking. Do a search on "ways to make gold" and count the threads that exist on the subject and give me a number, i'll wait. The same clueless player or someone who purposely chooses not to do things in the game that reward vast sums of gold or powerful items will end up the same way in any game, this is not exclusive to UO.



Yes. Happens almost every day in my guild. Maybe the issue is with you?

The OP clearly stated his spends his time fishing and gardening and has never made a tamer or a mage template yet blames inflation for why he can't afford any high priced items. You might as well drop out of school in the 6th grade and never get your GED or attend college then wonder why you can't afford a ferrari.

Is inflation ridiculous? Oh hell yes it's ridiculous. Even popular skill 120 scrolls (widely regarded as a dead market) sell for what would be an unheard of amount 10 years ago, welcome to mmo economic evolution.

Do I think inflation is making new players quit the game? No. If they do it's because they're lazy and don't do their research. As I said in my previous post just buying Stygian Abyss rewards you tokens that sell for insane amounts to a newbie. You can buy a 18x18 the day you start the game if you're smart.

Key phrase 'if you're smart'.

The difference between you and the new player, is you had a prior knowledge of uo, of who to ask, how to ask, how to do things, etc.

Inflation is a problem, when i started 100k gold was actually something, and even then it took alot to make that kind of gold.

Because todays game is so item based, you need gold to suit up, but to make gold you need to be suited up. That is a problem, i mean, perhaps every new char should start with a half way decent suit and armor and head out. Not everybody would be as "crafty" as you..

 

[slaveone]

First off Jill way to go trying to promote UO Socialism where everyone should be on the same playing field reguardless how may years they have played. That makes no sense to me however because of course someone who's played 10+ years is gonna be at a huge advantage to someone who's played 10 weeks that is just obvious and see no reason this shouldn't be the case.

Secondly just because you've choosen a style of play that doesn't allow you to amass 100's of millions doesn't mean you should frown upon those who do. Or complain about how you can't afford anything when your not out there actively doing something to help you make that type of GP. The trick to making big money in UO is to capitalize on something while you can that down the road you know will pay off. Hold the items or whatever it is for awhile then sell them off at or near their peak value. It's really that simple.

Honestly to me i personally look at 1 million gold now like i looked at 100k about 4-5 years ago. That's just how it is. I understand your point in saying what new player would want to play when they see 100mil plus items on luna vendors but for the most part those items aren't "REQUIRED" sure they are nice to have and will make your playstyle easier but they are far from nessecary to play the BULK of the game that is Ultima Online.

Lastly I don't really know why people spend 100's of millions on "items" even the best of the best SUPER ARTY won't allow you to make back 20 or even 30 million any easier than base items that just get the job done but don't cost many many millions. In the end the RNG decides who gets what rare or worthwhile item / arty as a drop not the 100's of millions worth of gear the players are wearing prior to the drop occuring.

 

[Der Rock]

Are there any specific things that might put controls on the games economy?

#1 Since imbuing is in play, could we agree that blessed/insurance of armor and weapons could be removed from the game?

#2 Artifacts cannot be repaired?

#3 Controls placed on LRC (possibly based on skill level, or lowering its max. to like 70%)?
We still have crafted items that can be worn or carried for failures.

1 / 2 / and 3... you would help the game... if you would REMOVE yourself from the game


ok? agree?
servus

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

1 / 2 / and 3... you would help the game... if you would REMOVE yourself from the game


ok? agree?
servus

That's uncalled for.

I agree...inflation is out of control in this game. I don't think larger denominations of currency is the fix to it however, I think that would just make it worse.

But regardless, she has as much right to her opinions as anyone else does.

 

[Jhym]

Hmm... let's see. I'm playing a game to enjoy myself.

You promote the devs destroying the game economy and making gold effectively worthless or removing all wealth from the game entirely.

Do you see the disconnect there?

I have worked hard for the money and items I -do- have, and I absolutely would quit if it was all taken away because some people think "everyone" has "too much".

As for all the arguing about people spending ridiculous amounts of gold on things... do you not realize that it is their money, and that they decide what they wish to pay for something?

Gold is the simplest way for people to purchase/sell items and materials. Otherwise we'd have to spend hours scanning boards, looking for what the exchange rate is for Valorite ingots to 120 skill magery scrolls.

Very truthfully, I look at all this whining as envy of others, pure and simple.

If you don't have the money -or- the willingness to gather it, then why should it bother you that someone else does? No impact on you and yours at all... unless you are envious of them.

 

[Freelsy]

An easy fix on the influx of gold could be a diminishing return. You kill one dragon and get 2k gold. The next one you get 1.9, then 1.8 Forcing you to A) hunt other monsters to keep accruing gold or B) stop all together.

Definitely would fix the gold farmers that do nothing but sit in one spot all day and chain the same monsters.

 

[omgmir]

The difference between you and the new player, is you had a prior knowledge of uo, of who to ask, how to ask, how to do things, etc.

Inflation is a problem, when i started 100k gold was actually something, and even then it took alot to make that kind of gold.

Because todays game is so item based, you need gold to suit up, but to make gold you need to be suited up. That is a problem, i mean, perhaps every new char should start with a half way decent suit and armor and head out. Not everybody would be as "crafty" as you..

Aye, when I started I remember mining for hours to sell ingots at 6gp per to turn around the use the money to buy a crafted 'archer suit' from a blacksmith. I remember when I could start comfortably killing earth eles in shame and with 40 or 50k in the bank from the 250g each they dropped and gems to sell, I felt rich as hell.

However, those days are gone, and introducing new forms of currency isn't going to bring them back. So you make 10 million gold = one Ice White Zircon, rich players then no longer have 500 million, they have 50 Ice White Zircon.. and now they sell a Tangle for 3 Zircons. The only thing you changed was the name. New players now go to a vendor and see items for Zircons they can't afford. Nothing changes. Gold is a symbol nothing else, you can change the name and form as much as you want it's still just a symbol.

You want to fix the economy I say it's way too late. If you want to try, massive gold sinks are a far better option than new currency.

 

[Babble]

For a balanced economy you would need working goldsinks and a limited amount of gold.

As neither is wanted in UO or in most games the economy will stay unbalanced.

See it positively. The next expansion will introduce newer better items and a new round of collecting starts and they can also raise the skill limit to 150 each skills to make Champ spawns attractive again and keep people busy.

 

[Tanivar]

Are there any specific things that might put controls on the games economy?

#1 Since imbuing is in play, could we agree that blessed/insurance of armor and weapons could be removed from the game?.

It would certainly be a major gold sink and help the game economy.

With Imbueing letting Crafters make good gear as replacements and making stuff able to be bought from a vendor only once, things could be sold at lower prices by Crafters. No one would be able to buy out an item and sell it for 100x it's origonal cost.

#2 Artifacts cannot be repaired?

Repairing such items of power should be made difficult at least. The more powerful the item, the more chance of losing max durability points. Perhaps more than one on a repair failure. Having to have some additional item for the repair attempt could be done as well. Uber Gear is now replaceable using Imbueing.

#3 Controls placed on LRC (possibly based on skill level, or lowering its max. to like 70%)?
We still have crafted items that can be worn or carried for failures.

This one I have to wince at... <g> All but one of my crew are Spellslingers and the reagent vendors are a pain in the tush. I grow plants and know how much hassle buying reagents in quantity is.

It would be no worse than archers needing to buy arrows & bolts I guess. Reagent buying involves more hassle, but is cheaper than typical Archery ammo prices. It would be a small goldsink but would drain some gold.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

If you don't have the money -or- the willingness to gather it, then why should it bother you that someone else does? No impact on you and yours at all... unless you are envious of them.

The problem isn't players gathering resources...even gold. It's scripters doing it that a lot of us object to. But, I suppose there has to be some method of producing enough gold for people to afford to buy things that cost hundreds of millions of gold.

The sad part is, you say something like this:

I have worked hard for the money and items I -do- have, and I absolutely would quit if it was all taken away because some people think "everyone" has "too much".

But what you don't realize is that the massive over inflation will eventually lead to everything you have in the game being completely worthless.

Not really a big deal for me. I have more gold on Atlantic than should ever even exist in the game...and I don't even want it. (and no, you cannot have it)

I'm just trying to think of what is best for the game as a whole.

 

[Sturdy]

I am going to agree with Morgana (because of her purple hair)

Crafted items need to be competitive with artifacts- this would smooth the value curve. With imbuing they largely are -but not quite.

Arties should be a little better - but only a little.

I have to say the economy on Siege seems correct to me. When I visited Sonoma Luna it turned my stomach. There are scripter's with spreadsheets stocking those vendors - very weird.

 

[Tanivar]

How about these for changes to improve the economy?

1) No Insurance anymore. Lost items can be replaced by the Smith's and Imbuer's. Our Queen takes a hefty chunk of the gold paid for items as a sales tax. Gold gone from the game.

2) Artifacts can only be repaired by NPC Specialists and all gold paid for the repair (with a durability point lost each time) goes to the Queen's coffers. Gold gone from the game.

3) House owners pay a 10% property tax every month. Initially based on the house price per it's value on the placement tool or the house sign info. If a house is sold, the game system records that price and the tax becomes 10% of that amount. **Major** Gold gone from the game once a house changes owners.

4) Vendor fees become 10% per month or whatever it is now, whichever is higher. All vendors pay a 10% sales tax upon an item selling. More gold gone from the game.

5) Getting or depositing a check carries a 1% bank fee. Gold gone from the game.

6) The Queen declares price gouging to be illegal and Vendors will not accept a price above whatever cap the Dev's put on a list.

7) No item can be sold on a vendor more than once. This will block people from buying up all of an item for reasonable prices, then re-selling those items on their Vendors for the far higher price they feel is 'reasonable' in order to price gouge the Queen's Subjects.

 

[Stupid Miner]

For a balanced economy you would need working goldsinks and a limited amount of gold.

As neither is wanted in UO or in most games the economy will stay unbalanced.

See it positively. The next expansion will introduce newer better items and a new round of collecting starts and they can also raise the skill limit to 150 each skills to make Champ spawns attractive again and keep people busy.

The economy isn't unbalanced since excessive amounts of gold are unnecessary.

The rarest ingredients for imbuing are able to be gotten relatively easily, so you really only have to buy gems to imbue artifacts. (and even the rarest ingredients themselves are rarely necessary)

None of the 10+ million gold artifacts are necessary, they're extraneous.

The only regular, necessary, outflow of gold is from insurance.

And with Faction items, even the high end artifacts that may be necessary for PvP are obtainable.

 

[Stupid Miner]

I am going to agree with Morgana (because of her purple hair)

Crafted items need to be competitive with artifacts- this would smooth the value curve. With imbuing they largely are -but not quite.

Imbued Wooden Armor is better than most artifacts. If you doubt me, talk to Thunderz

Arties should be a little better - but only a little.

Having spent accumulated hours fiddling around with my char's suit in excel, I can say that this is already true. Just about every artifact has a strong point, but also has points that are weaker than Imbued/Crafted items.
... with the exception of headgear artifacts.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Hawk, you're a laugh.....reason being, someone wants to discuss something and you come along with some virtual economic holier than thou knowledge.

Try again. First off, everyone has the right to post without being humiliated by some school yard bully.

Secondly, a young player CAN chime in on a champ.....it's all too assumptious.
That's what YOU would do.

The amount of gold in game is reflected by mentality, not by prices. Not all players buy gold, but those that do, especially grown, adult, men &women, leaves alot to be said about who they really are.

I agree on this, another currency wil not reduce the pathetic nature of UO's economy. As long as there are bottom feeders who farm gold (see painted caves)....there will be some fool who buys it.

Unless we can rob vendors or stick up banks, or break into players houses.....the economy will always remain the joke it is.

WoW?? Anyone still play that?? Maybe you mean Zelda?

later

Assumption one. Not to the poster. But the argument that the economy is broken.

Assumption two. A new player is relative and yes with a few weeks the can join a guild, party up, and collect arties.

This isnt about buying gold. Most dont. You can acquire gold easily by being a merchant and vending.

It doesnt matter if there are farmers or scripters. The economy adjust. The only problem is dupes. The duper gets a jump. But eventually it adjusts.

The gold sink talkers are right. If you dont have ways to remove million billions. Inflation stays. But inflation isnt a broken economy.

Bully the bully if you wish. I am right about this. No point in extended bullying.

 

[jill]

Do yous think possibly removing uo accounts that aren't active from their servers might also be a gold sink in the game. I mean someone coming back to the game several months or years after their account expired with an archieved account..

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I am going to agree with Morgana (because of her purple hair)

Thanks! I like it!

 

[Guido_LS]

Do yous think possibly removing uo accounts that aren't active from their servers might also be a gold sink in the game. I mean someone coming back to the game several months or years after their account expired with an archieved account..

No. I know, 100% for a certainty, that if my accounts had been deleted while I decided to take an extend hiatus from UO, EA would not be getting my money now.

What makes me curious is this - after 10+ years of not needing these overly priced items, and being happy with the way things were in your part of the world, why the sudden concern, and, more importantly, why the sudden desire to punish everyone that plays differently than you do?

Fishing hasn't been profitable since, well, ever. The only real value to fishing now is white pearls. Blame EA, not everyone else. The only valuable things to come from fishing are the now semi-rare pre-AoS paintings/portraits. Again, that's not the fault of everyone around you - that's EA's fault.

And if you're into gardening, you aren't doing it right... you can make a small fortune off of it, if you know what you're doing - just based on average server prices, I produced, at the bottom end of the scale, 18 million from one resource... average would be 27 million, and top end somewhere around 35million... and that doesn't even begin to get into things like dyes, rare colored plants, orange petals, green thorns, etc. In under 3 weeks.

So just because you don't know how to manage the resources you admit to enjoying, and learning how to turn a large profit from it, don't think that gives you the right to take away from everywhere else.

 

[Lady Michelle]

I guess my play style is all wrong then.. i've played almost 11 yrs.. and i'm very conservative with my gold.. rarely spending it.. and i've accumulated about 15 million amongst all my characters.

I enjoy fishing... and gardening.. fighting i don't really like!!!.. and never had a mage or tamer.


<giggles> maybe we could share in this economy.... i take uo checks... <only teasing guys>

There is nothing wrong with your play style as long as you enjoy it. For me it seems I want the things I can't afford, and when I can afford them I no longer want them. plus I want to keep all my gold LOL

 

[Tuchman]

Hello..

I've been playing Uo for about 11 yrs now and i'm very concerned about its economy. Over inflated prices seem to loom everywhere.. Gold is given freely and camped for in the game unendingly and players are dropping unable to keep up or start up in the game. Its really hurting not just the existing players but the game as a whole. And its not just UO suffering from this.. power players and gold hoarders are in all the moorph games.. its a ongoing problem and should really be looked at seriously to keep UO as the longest lasting moorph in history.

I might have a solution (or suggestion), how about a gold conversion in the game.. vendors will no longer sell items for gold but for a new currency. This new currency can be traded for , converting gold to drachma's for instance). In the game gold will be written out as a reward and loot will consist of drachma's. However, in a much more leaner form then we have today. Skilled monsters might have from 1-10 drachma's with smaller skill monsters having gold still which can be converted into drachma's at say 1000 to 1 or more.

This would be a new trading currency. Although it might make alot of enemies at first it could be a way to bring back new players into the game, allowing them to keep pace.

Also, removing the blessed items and insurance could be very valuable to the game since imbuing is now active. Removing items from the game as well as gold for repurchase. Artifacts can not be repaired..

The games just turned into more of a collectors field rather then a cooperative guild/friends game as it was intended. I would have suggested a silver currency but i know that there is those in factions collecting that up.. so that wouldn't be a fair conversion for gold.. it would have to be a completely new currency.

In my opinion, it just seems crazy for a person to instantly acheive or mine items worth millions of gold each day. Its like daily lottery only for those individuals or those who can afford to be at the right spawn to grab up those items that are deemed rare so they can be overpriced on some vendor within the hour. PLUS they get the advantage of huge amounts of gold for the kill. Too much.. way too much and out of control for any game.

I could understand this if it wasn't a multiplayer game.. since those games can be played and replayed over and over with new characters and a new start. But in a game that can continue for years.. its really over kill to allow players to acheive so much and for that to have such a negative impact on attaining new players to the game.


So my question i guess is... "Can UO developers put controls on the games economy to better extend the game for new players and extended life?"

I'm sure there are lots more ideas out there, i'm kinda writing this in frustration so please forgive.


Wish you well..and thank you for these forums..

Jill

Just remove Insurance

 

[Konge]

I challenge any of you naysayers, to make a new char on a new shard, and run around in this game as if you had no idea what anything was. when you started with 1000 gold in your pack, no armor or anything worth a crap, run to the cemetary and have a rough time earing 30 gold, then go to luna, look at a vendor, and see a arty for 500k (that to most of us is something we would drop on the ground) you will think..holy ****...how can i..

So to the guy who mentioned the enw player go to the champ spawn.. yout hink that new player is going to power farm his skills up like we do? have a suit to even compete with lower level monsters, or a know how of any game mechanic to pull it off?

Yea, right..ok. I agree with the OP, everything some how needs to be scaled down by a 0 or 2.

scalling down doesn't really help.

At the end of the day, the people who were a lot richer than everyone else, still are, you just feel slightly better even though nothing change.

It's better to increase what new characters start off with

Instead of chain mail armor, a long sword, and 1000 gp

blessed, low intensity, armor with about 50 in all resists and some mods that help with the class and maybe around 50-200k, I don't know, and make a large multiplier for first characters on a shard, like maybe, the first character you make on a shard, gets 1-5mil (using random numbers here people) but the next character only receives the default, and deleting and remaking the one character doesn't give the large bonus either.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

3 things that will work

Insurance isnt the issue as much as nothing wears out in a significant way.


1. GOLD SINK. Create items that have charges and daily timers but are really cool for monster bashing or showing off. Charge a lot. OR a basement for 50 million. A sub level basement for 100 million. Whatever. You get the idea.

PRO gets rid of gold. CON he has that and I want it for 1 gold.

2. Calculate the gold in the economy and make NPC prices based on a percentage of gold in game. Thats right. The more gold means NPC resources go up. Get rid of the way things reset, rise on purchase. Make them reflect inflationary costs.

PRO gets rid of gold and adjust NPC items and resources to inflation.
CON I want to buy that item for 3 gold. Why should I pay...

3. GET RID OF BAGS OF SENDING FOR RESOURCES AND GOLD. Rare items I guess can be sent but BOS changes. Why? FARMING, SCRIPTING blah blah. The mark, recall, send to bank box. Is silly. I dont care about BOS but if this thread is going to be worth a lick. OR OR OR the bag of sending needs to eat 25% of the gold and resources sent.

PRO my God do I need to say... gets rid of lameness and makes gold a work aspect vs. a right aspect.
CON "I dont like gold farmers but I dont farm and need the bag of sending. I dont want to recall to the bank."

Basically, 3 is about anything that ridiculously automates the game and promotes laziness, farming and scripting.

NUMBER 4
Yeah I said 3. Get rid of predictability in game. Unleash the hounds of change and pop in monsters, traps, and things that require human intervention.

NUMBER 5
Limits on things.

PROS after 3 hours mining you have to go sleep. CONS I dont script but enjoy mining 13 hours a day straight. PLEASE. Even if that is true... you need a life intervention.


Answers are there. Not mine but everyone that has put in 2 cents. However, we all want our cake and the other guys cake and want to kick them without losing our stuff and then we want their IDOC cake and quitting the game cake.

If I am wrong let me know. 10 years. A gizzillion great post by people to fix this and NADA.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Just remove Insurance

Just say No.

 

[wee papa smurf]

Its a game....
who cares about gold sinks? who cares that the artie i bought last year is worth 10x more? who cares that i just spent 20 mill imbuing bows only to find out i cant dye them? who cares that the guy in the castle next door has 200 million gold locked down on his front door step?
All im saying is, its a game, if it eats into your real life economy then i feel sorry for ya really i do, play the game the way you want to, if you wanna be rich then farm arties or take up begging!
No hard feelings but this is just my opinion