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Can someone explain this armor thing?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Omnicron, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend

    I have zero idea about these new armor properties work! Ive dug through stratics forums to try and understand it. But I cant seem to make my brain work and realize what it all means. I guess in short I have a couple questions....can someone explain in "easy to understand newbie terms?"

    1. Whats the best set up for dexers? IE what are the best pieces on a suit? Studded, ringmail, plate ect.
    2 Whats the best armor combo for mages? Archers? And such?

    Also what is the best way to craft armor? For example, make with iron ingots (using a +60 hammer) and then enhance with runic hammer using colored ingots? Then imbue and reforge?

    Thanks for any help in advance...I am seriously lost when it comes to all this.

    I have a 120 smith/tailor rotting away and havnt used him since he got to 120 when power scrolls first came out!!! (holy schnikes thats a long time ago)
    Cupid likes this.
  2. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Very good questions, because I am just as confused. I'd like to know the answers to your questions, too.
  3. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah

    By new I assume you mean since the most-recent Publish.

    You do not have to change your armor. Of my 3 characters, 2 have changed and the remainder is roughly as effective as ever, I just have to cast Divine Fury a few extra times.

    The only thing that's any different from my perspective --as I doubt I'll ever use refinements-- is the stamina absorption and additional LMC properties.

    Blacksmith made, non-meddable armors supposedly all absorb stamina damage in the same way. So ring, plate, chain, etc., is down to personal preference. It has some additional LMC but not much.

    Tailor made non-meddable armors (studded and samurai studded) all absorb stamina damage in the same way -- less than blacksmith-made armor, more than meddable armor. You get some additional LMC, more additional LMC than you get from blacksmith-made armor Again, comes down to personal preference which one you use.

    No idea on woodland armor as I haven't used it before or after the changes.

    The additional LMC: I tend to pretend it's not there and treat it merely as a bonus.

    The key thing to remember is that there's no longer any good reason to mix meddable and non-meddable armors, if ther ever was. No more "My suit is basically meddable, but I have the Jackal's collar."

    If there's a piece you want to use that's mage armor (Gladiator's Collar; Rune Beetle Carapace; Heart of the Lion), and you want your suit to be non-meddable? Then take that piece to the mage guildmaster NPCs and look at their context menus for the option that lets you remove or put back mage armor from an item.

    -Galen's player
  4. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah

    I add: As before there is no best setup for anyone.

    It comes down to you and your character.

    -Galen's player
  5. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Inquisitor


    1) Probably studded/bone level armor. In my experience it gives good enough stamina protection that you don't even need stamina leech (especially if you have pots or use Divine Fury) and you get 15% free LMC, and a LMC cap of 55%.
    2) Mages are the same as they were before. Anyone who counts on leeching for mana should probably go studded as well

    Not much to it really.

    Crafting is basically the same as its always been. Being on siege I don't bother with the super high end suits, so I usually just craft plain, imbue and enhance. Works just peachy.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
  6. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper

    Ah armor, what a delicious, convoluted mess it has become. First if you want the "best" high end suit, you need to start with normal leather or iron, and craft up just the perfect pieces, taking into account what enhancing and refining will do to the pieces. Then remember to powder up the pieces, then make sure you hunted up enough of all the imbuing ingredients to get the whole suite Imbued up. Then better make sure you have invested in a forged metal of artifacts tool, so as not waste all the powder and Ingredients you spent all that time gathering, and enhance with leather/ingots of choice, then finally figure out this refining thing, apply gathered ingredients (no idea how this all works, good luck) and you are done, simple right? Now repeat for all chars that need high end suits.

    Easy!
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
    atinycow likes this.
  7. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Inquisitor


    It doesn't HAVE to be that bad... It doesn't need to be perfect, and no one uses refining anyway.
    atinycow likes this.
  8. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend Staff Alumnus


    I'm glad i'm no one. :p
    cdavbar likes this.
  9. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper

    I totally agree. I have yet to use refinements, It doesn't seem the effort is worth it. I was just saying, if you wanted to go all out...............o_O
    Uvtha and atinycow like this.
  10. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Babbling Loonie

    So then you are saying its ok because nobody should be trying to make the best suits possible?

    Lol at that.

    Its a mess just like we all knew it was going to be.
  11. atinycow

    atinycow Adventurer

    I think they just need to keep going all-out with it. Why stop with Enhancing, Imbuing, Reforging, and Refining? They should add Improving, Spiffing, Refracting, Adjusting, Tweaking, and Twerking too, each with one or two hundred random items and math problems to solve. Just keep piling on crap until the system collapses under it's own weight and we all end up in GM crafted armor again because no one knows what's good anymore.
    Masuri, The Mule and Spiritless like this.
  12. Cupid

    Cupid Seasoned Veteran

    I was also really hoping for some easy clarity to this also, got a 120 smith/imbu/tailor and my chars all wear either garbage point armor or random saved stuff from Shame. As a primary t hunter I had hoped for some Value to the new enhancers but I cant even bring myself to learn how to use them.
  13. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Inquisitor


    Of course I didn't mean absolutely. Just that not many people use them, and they certainly aren't required by any means.
  14. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox Staff Alumnus

    I made a suit of mixed valorite and agapite, with the intention of imbuing resists up to all 70s.
    What I ended up with, before imbuing, was a suit with 71 physical and 72 fire resist.
    So when I'd done the imbuing, including other properties and found I only actually had 35 DCI I thought 'I can't reach the dci cap, why not refine the armor so that I can actually use the extra resists instead of them just being ignored?'
  15. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend Staff Alumnus

    I'm Slowly building up my resist on my suits.

    [​IMG]
    CovenantX likes this.
  16. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Lore Keeper

    Alpha and Omega

    They should stack and I think they should also be available for med armor.
    I also think the cheap refinements should be able to be used multiple times to get from like 72 to 75

    What happens if you now convert the above to mage armor?
  17. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend Staff Alumnus

    As far i know, thats not possible.
  18. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience

    Adding Mage Armor to a piece of armor has no effect on its current refinements or the ability to add refinements to it. Mage Armor will negate the LMC and Stamina Protection Bonuses granted by the non-medable piece.

    I concur that refinements should be allowed on naturally medable armor. You can already make medable armor with refinements (by having Mage Armor) it makes no sense to exclude naturally medable cloth, leaf, and leather armor. What will happen when the add more types of refinements, especially caster friendly ones? The trade-offs for refinement are already built in, Resists vs. DCI.

    In addition, the material components required to craft them need to be simplified and stackable. The overwhelming number of components is a significant deterrent for players to try them out. To streamline refinements, the player should be able to choose the armor type at the time of crafting, using a common set of ingredients.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
  19. DJAd

    DJAd Crazed Zealot

    Don't worry I'm sure the staff will be adding it to the UO.com website soon. Along with all the new resists for leather, wood and metal etc.

    /end sarcasm
    atinycow and Sauteed Onion like this.
  20. Mervyn

    Mervyn Slightly Crazed

    This is quite an interesting issue.

    The current armour system is so complicated now, I know how it works, but whether I can be asked to explain it to someone else is another matter.

    The imbueing system you can kinda get your head around easy enough, but trying to explain reforging to someone and how many charges to use and what runic to use to get certain pieces gets quantum mechanical.

    I've an RnD department still carrying out experiments to this day. It's madness I tell you, more complicated than it ought to be that is for sure.

    I've been planning on doing videos on teaching people little tips and tricks and armour was one issue I did want to cover, however in it's current form it may be too complicated to go through in a video. I think i'll have to do a webpage style walkthrough instead.
  21. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Certifiable


    Please save your breath. Reforging isn't that hard. Any runic can get any property; the difference between runics is a matter of property intensity. And Stratics has an excellent guide with an excellent matrix of what item names give what properties. http://uo2.stratics.com/items/runic-re-forging

    Imbuing is not hard to figure out, either, especially with the great work by Gilmour and the other Knuckleheads. Their imbuing calculator has saved me a lot of time figuring out if I could fit everything on one piece. http://stratics.com/community/threads/update-to-imbuing-calculator.293889/

    The big challenge is the creativity to make an efficient, optimal suit that doesn't waste room, but it just takes time and resources to make a pretty darn good suit. While UO armor is more complicated than other games, it counts for a lot that we can have full control over what we make. Some have posted item screenshots with an arm-length list of cursed, brittle, leeches, etc., which never bothered me. Diablo II would use a full screen for a particular item's properties. Our ability to reforge, imbue and enhance custom-fit pieces is much easier than the original AoS armor revamp.

    For several weeks I played a Diablo-type game where a property and its intensity are added randomly. Combined with a mere 20% chance to succeed, it meant I spent more time trying to enhance my armor than actually playing. Since an item has only so many chances to be enhanced, it was a constant re-roll of the dice, hoping I'd get more of the cold resist I wanted. Then I hit a plateau, finding I'd enhanced everything I could, and the next enhancements would take a week to find enough resources for just one piece. That isn't how a game should be.
    Barry Gibb likes this.
  22. atinycow

    atinycow Adventurer


    Technically it's optimal to mix one piece of studded into a metal suit (or one piece of metal into a studded suit) since the system only looks at the five best pieces when computing each bonus. That is to say, you get full stamina protection from five metal pieces, so there's no reason not to make the sixth piece studded and pick up a little extra LMC. It's a small detail, but it exists.

    I am sorely tempted to quote-mine the forum for "I give up, my crafter is retired, I don't know how to make suits anymore" posts and paste them with a certain developer's quote about "Our aim is to revitalize crafting!" at the end.
  23. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah

    Good to know.

    Technically though that's mixing types of non-meddable armor.

    Now I know why my character that has a plate gorget, chain mail, samurai plate helm, ring gloves, samurai plate leggings, and studded arms does so well.

    -Galen's player
  24. atinycow

    atinycow Adventurer


    Oh yeah, derpfest on my part. Though you can mix one piece of med in with a nonmed suit, IE mace & shield glasses, for the same reason.

    I wonder WTF the point of Mage Armor still being on the imbuing list is at this point.
  25. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend Staff Alumnus


    *cough* its not.

    I would advice you to play the game a bit more or atleast read the publish notes.

    From Pub 81:

    Mage Armor Update:

    Mage armor has been removed from imbuing, reforging, and enhancing.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  26. atinycow

    atinycow Adventurer

    Okay lemme expand: I wonder WTF the point of Mage Armor existing in UO is at this point, at all in any context. As far as I can tell it's just a really complicated way to let mages use a few metal artifacts, and to make dexers pay an extra 100k or whatever to use a few others.

    Know what else lets mages use whatever artifacts? Getting rid of Mage Armor entirely and making everything medable. They went a hundred miles out of their way to balance the medability of leather by giving other armors LMC, but then they couldn't let mages wear other armors or they'd have too much LMC, so they made Mage Armor change the bonuses a piece gives, and then whoops some dexer artifacts have Mage Armor on them so now we've got to add this system where you can remove it, blah blah blah.

    It was a complete mess and largely pointless.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  27. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Certifiable

    I remember from the Publish 81 notes that it would be removed, but I never checked. I think I imbued mage armor...once...many moons ago.
  28. CovenantX

    CovenantX Certifiable

    Mage Armor probably exists so that if you happen to find an amazing item in the new loot system that's not med-able, but has mage properties (LRC/casting focus, (all the good stuff)) it would be near useless if it weren't mage armor.

    But currently, you can't "Add" Mage Armor to an item with more than 5 properties... so it sort of defeats the purpose.

    So what?, People are going to pay 250k to remove "Mage Armor" from a Gladiator's Collar, so that it may only be usable on Non-med-able templates, for +1% Lmc, Stamina protection, & possibility to use refinements?
  29. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Certifiable

    I think I mentioned on the forums that I resorted to making a suit out of mostly samurai plate, because I had lots of samurai plate invulnerability refinements but hardly any for regular platemail. I spent a million to remove the natural mage armor.
  30. PJay

    PJay Seasoned Veteran

    Can you tell me how to get 15 RPD please! thx......
  31. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Certifiable

    What I meant was that any runic can get any property available through reforging. I'm not aware of a way to reforge Reflect Physical Damage. I think that has to come from imbuing.
  32. CovenantX

    CovenantX Certifiable

    RPD is a random mod via reforging, you can't get RPD with any of the prefixes/suffixes (atleast I've tried about 30 of each without and luck.)

    The only way to reforge RPD, is allowing the reforge to roll random mods, you can reforge an item, say you want LMC/Mana Increase pieces, you'd do Mystic/of Sorcery using 4 charges per reforge

    Using

    Powerful Re-Forging
    Grand Artifice
    Inspired Artifice

    Mystic/of Sorcery

    You will likely get +2-3 mods all times, dealing with mana, (Mana inc, LMC, Mr, & Int bonus) then, the other 2-3 mods (you can get upto 6 mods via reforging, most pieces only end up with 5 though), one of the other 2-3 mods would need to roll RPD, It's very hard to get a specific combination of properties because of how many different properties that can roll on armor.

    RPD is the only property (that I know of), that has no chance to roll as a selected mod, it's always random.

    1-15% via imbuing.
    5-10-15-20% via reforging.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  33. If they made all Armor meddable, they'd have to revamp Focus and Meditation. Focus grants the equivalent of 1 SR for every 10.0 Points, and 1 MR for every 20.0 points, and works in any Armor. Meditation grants the equivalent of 1 MR for every 10.0 points, and doubles that bonus when actively meditating, but does not work at all with non meddable armor. With all the Stam Leeching and Refresh Pots in game, not many people get much use out of the Stam Regen from Focus. If they made all Armor meddable, then Meditation would completely and utterly trump Focus, making it basically worthless. They gave bonuses to non meddable armor to basically get Warrior templates out of Leather Armor suits.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  34. atinycow

    atinycow Adventurer


    Yeah you'd still have to give heavy armor warrior bonuses, light armor some kind of mage bonus, and medium armor a mix of both. Focus wouldn't be any more worthless than it's always been though. I mean, you say nobody needs focus because meditation and stamina potions are better? Well yeah, that's always been the case. Did anyone really start giving up 120 skill points for focus just to score MR6 since Pub 81?
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  35. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Certifiable

    Good call! I had forgotten about the random properties (rarely use them). I think the guy was asking how it could be chosen, and as far as I know it's not in any of the reforging property classes. The Stratics guide seems quite complete.
  36. PJay

    PJay Seasoned Veteran

    Thankyou for that explanation but i was being naughty.
    The point was that there are things unexplained and the system is way too complex for a new player so to tell someone who wants to assist newer even current players to not bother is very anti social for the community.
  37. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Certifiable


    Was it someone else's post you meant to reply to? CovenantX didn't say not to bother, and people talk a lot on UHall and sometimes the Craftsman forum about how to make things. Stratics also has many excellent pages that people worked very hard to complete.

    As I said above, yes, UO has a very complicated overall system of making stuff: crafting, reforging, imbuing, enhancing. Unlike most other games, though, we also get full control over what we get. Reforging is random, granted, but you can reforge a few dozen pieces to get the property you wanted. In other games, you have to accept the result of enhancing/upgrading.
  38. PJay

    PJay Seasoned Veteran

    Sorry unclear in the post but i was thanking CovenantX for the explanation it was very through!
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2013
  39. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Journeyman

    TnT/TnA

    omg, this thread! One minute I think I know what I'm doing, the next minute, no. The next, maybe? The next, no definitely not, and the next, WTF have they done to armor crafting???

    I just came back after about a year or two off and made new suits for Luna, the dexxer, and Aphrodesia, the smith/mage. Luna's suit is a hodge podge, but it gives me all 70's and extra mana and some regen capabilities. Aphro's suit is all leather except for her ringmail mining gloves that I tried reforging? on Is that where the imbuer uses the runic hammers and mucks about? and I was gonna put mage armor on them when I subsequently pimped them out but saw that it was gone from the menu. I didn't know about the mage guildmaster npcs yet, and I'll try that when I log on, but I probably put too many properties on them.

    anyway, in the interest of brevity, I thought I still knew what I was doing, but I were wrong :blushing:
  40. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Certifiable

    Reforging is great. It can take a number of attempts, but with low-level hammers, you can still make "clean" pieces with one high-intensity property. Only plain iron and leather can be reforged, meaning there's a risk of breakage when you try to enhance afterward. I prefer to reforge, imbue, then enhance using a 100% reforging tool.

    An item can be given the mage armor property via mage guildmaster NPC conversion, provided it's not an artifact and has no more than four properties.

    Just don't get me started on the new refinements... :)

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