Bard Masteries mana consumption : how intensive is it ?

[popps]

I have a question for Bards experienced with the new Bard masteries.

In particular, I am interested in Inspire, Preservance, Tribulation and Despair.

How intensive is their use of mana ?

The reason I am asking, is because I was thinking to see whether their usage might be feasible for a Tamer/Bard.

Unfortunately, especially with high end game often it is not possible to use veterinary to heal the pet and so, Greater Heals or other means of healing with spells (which use mana) are needed.

So, I am trying to figure out whether the concurrent use of a spell mastery AND the casting of Greater Heals (or other healing spells) is feasible with the right suit and skills.

One note, hardly a Tamer/Bard would be able to have the Meditation skill for lack of skill points space (3 Tamer skills + 2 Bard skills + Magery = 6 skills) and so, mana regeneration would need to rely on the suit with as much MR modifier as possible or would have to take mods' slots on the jewellery to play around with skills to add a 7th skill, meditation, but at the expense of other modifiers, also important......

Anyone has any idea ?

Thanks.

 

[NBG]

you will need meditation.

MR from suit will not be enough to even keep your pet alive in peerless/spawn situation. You will not have enough to even think about using songs.

Trying to use despair or tribulation will not work at all without med or ways to leech mana. It is really hard to try to keep both up even with med and leech.

Peacemaking/Provo songs are pretty easy to keep up one at a time but when you have both songs going its going to be hard since you will need extra upkeep just for your pet.

 

[popps]

you will need meditation.

MR from suit will not be enough to even keep your pet alive in peerless/spawn situation. You will not have enough to even think about using songs.

Trying to use despair or tribulation will not work at all without med or ways to leech mana. It is really hard to try to keep both up even with med and leech.

Peacemaking/Provo songs are pretty easy to keep up one at a time but when you have both songs going its going to be hard since you will need extra upkeep just for your pet.

Alright, so meditation is a must. All the way to 120 ?

If so, that's going to be a toll on jewellery........

I mean, in order to have 7 skills all at 120 (1- Animal Taming, 2- Animal Lore, 3- Veterinary, 4- Musicianship, 5- Peacemaking/Provocation/Discordance, 6- Magery and 7- Meditation) it will be necessary to have 4 x 15 = 60 skill points or the ring and 4 x 15 = 60 skill points on the bracelet (total = 120 for the 7th skill maxed out).

This takes away 8 other mods which would be otherwise used and limits the MR that one can add to the suit........

By the way, there is only room for 1 Bardic skill at a time, not 2 so it is not possible to have 2 Bard Masteries up at the same one time.

Has anyone already made a Tamer/Bard and has experience with this template ?

What is their skillset and what the gear/jewellery ?

 

[NBG]

110 taming
110 lore
100 vet

That is all you will need skill wise. As far as suit goes, stack some MR but don't forget mana/int inc is just as important.

 

[ultima77]

Alright, so meditation is a must. All the way to 120 ?

If so, that's going to be a toll on jewellery........

I mean, in order to have 7 skills all at 120 (1- Animal Taming, 2- Animal Lore, 3- Veterinary, 4- Musicianship, 5- Peacemaking/Provocation/Discordance, 6- Magery and 7- Meditation) it will be necessary to have 4 x 15 = 60 skill points or the ring and 4 x 15 = 60 skill points on the bracelet (total = 120 for the 7th skill maxed out).

This takes away 8 other mods which would be otherwise used and limits the MR that one can add to the suit........

By the way, there is only room for 1 Bardic skill at a time, not 2 so it is not possible to have 2 Bard Masteries up at the same one time.

Has anyone already made a Tamer/Bard and has experience with this template ?

What is their skillset and what the gear/jewellery ?

I'm currently working on finishing...

120 Music
120 Disco
120 Provo/Peace
120 Meditation
110 Taming
110 Lore
110 Magery

With 120 Vet on a soulstone

Suit with 40% LMC, 100% LRC and as much MR as possible; +13 Taming/Lore/Magery on a imbued ring/bracelet, +Magery Scrapper, Library Talisman

 

[popps]

I'm currently working on finishing...

120 Music
120 Disco
120 Provo/Peace
120 Meditation
110 Taming
110 Lore
110 Magery

With 120 Vet on a soulstone

Suit with 40% LMC, 100% LRC and as much MR as possible; +13 Taming/Lore/Magery on a imbued ring/bracelet, +Magery Scrapper, Library Talisman

To get the modifiers you want, are you relying on any artifact or just regular items, perhaps imbued ?
This particularly since Bard masteries give the best benefits when one has Real Skill above GM.
Now, if Music, Disco and Provo/Peace must be 120 real skill, this only leaves room on jewellery/items for skill points to ge gathered through items only for Meditation, Taming, Lore and Magery.

Is that how it is ?

120 Music (real)
120 Disco (real)
120 Provo/Peace (real)
120 Meditation (90 real + 30 on jewellery)
110 Taming (80 real + 30 on jewellery)
110 Lore (80 real + 30 on jewellery)
110 Magery (80 real + 30 on jewellery)

If the above is the case, the real points are (120 x 3) + 90 + (80 x 3) = 690

There is still room for 30 more......
Perhaps, adding a Mark of Travesty for Taming/Lore (10 + 10 points), A Birds Taming/Lore Birds talisman (5 + 5 points) and a scrapper's book with + 15 Magery one could possibly free up 45 points on the jewellery and therefore add 75 Veterinary to the template ? Though, if one wants 120 Taming/Lore this would limit the Veterinary to 55 points.......

Also, without Veterinary how do you keep your pet alive ? Are greater heals enough when having to also deal with Bard Masteries mana consumption and the fact that high end Monsters hit really hard and for a lot of damage ??

Lastly, isn't 110 Taming/Lore a little too low to control effectively a Greater Dragon ?

No risk of having it run wild in the middle of a fight and get killed by the monster and so loose it for good ??

 

[AzSel]

By the way, there is only room for 1 Bardic skill at a time, not 2 so it is not possible to have 2 Bard Masteries up at the same one time.

You can have both bard masteries of the same skill active at any time.

 

[ultima77]

To get the modifiers you want, are you relying on any artifact or just regular items, perhaps imbued ?
This particularly since Bard masteries give the best benefits when one has Real Skill above GM.
Now, if Music, Disco and Provo/Peace must be 120 real skill, this only leaves room on jewellery/items for skill points to ge gathered through items only for Meditation, Taming, Lore and Magery.

Is that how it is ?

120 Music (real)
120 Disco (real)
120 Provo/Peace (real)
120 Meditation (90 real + 30 on jewellery)
110 Taming (80 real + 30 on jewellery)
110 Lore (80 real + 30 on jewellery)
110 Magery (80 real + 30 on jewellery)

If the above is the case, the real points are (120 x 3) + 90 + (80 x 3) = 690

There is still room for 30 more......
Perhaps, adding a Mark of Travesty for Taming/Lore (10 + 10 points), A Birds Taming/Lore Birds talisman (5 + 5 points) and a scrapper's book with + 15 Magery one could possibly free up 45 points on the jewellery and therefore add 75 Veterinary to the template ? Though, if one wants 120 Taming/Lore this would limit the Veterinary to 55 points.......

Also, without Veterinary how do you keep your pet alive ? Are greater heals enough when having to also deal with Bard Masteries mana consumption and the fact that high end Monsters hit really hard and for a lot of damage ??

Lastly, isn't 110 Taming/Lore a little too low to control effectively a Greater Dragon ?

No risk of having it run wild in the middle of a fight and get killed by the monster and so loose it for good ??

Yeah, I have 120 real on each bard skill.

It's impossible to have +15 in four different categories on a piece of jewelery, and meditation/lore are in the same category, so you can't have them together on one piece of jewelery.

Now, you COULD rework it so that you have +13 in Magery, Taming, Lore, and Vet on a piece of jewelery. Even then, however, I don't see a feasible way to add enough Vet to truly make a difference. I'll play around with it a bit to see if there is any way I could add it.

Most higher end monsters have some AOE damage spells, meaning you'll have to rely mostly on Greater Healss anyway.

110 Lore/110 Taming = 99% control over a Greater Dragon.

 

[Poo]

but if you dont have over 80 vet then when (not if, but when) your pet dies to these higher end critters how are you gonna res it.

now you have to hope that someone else in your party has vet.
so now your entire template is reliant on another player in your party being able to get you back up so you can play.

that just dosnt taste good, eh?

realistically (and i have a tamer bard on every shard, so i have a little experiance in them) your not gonna be able to run the disco masteries on a tamer bard.

hell, even with 120 med and a pimped out suit i can barelly run the disco masteries on my pure bard. they are so mana insensive.
i didnt say it wasnt possible, but its not fun.

then add onto that your spells, ekkk!

but now you wanna start to spam greater heals and cures (probablly arch cures if your doing something high end) and i just dont think your gonna have the mana pool / med to do it.

granted, last night i was out getting some leather in destard fel and i was in there with my greater killing dragons, and i got bored and started to fire off the dico masteries after i had disco'd a few of them and i was able to keep it up till my dragon killed them greaters.
and i have only 40 focus.
40 LMC and over 10 MR and 145 int, but no med whatsoever.

but we are talking a discoed greater dragon vs a greater dragon.
so whats that..... 1 minute?

 

[Storm]

is there a good use for the masteries?

 

[ultima77]

is there a good use for the masteries?

Of course there are. The Provo and Peace masteries are incredibly useful for Tamer/Bards. Just think how much longer you can sustain a GD with 20% damage decrease, or how powerful that same GD is with 50% damage increase. I've discovered that although chaining GHs while a mastery is activated is certainly more difficult, it's far from impossible with 120 Med and decent MR. Additionally, anyone who summons will find the Provo master Inspire to be extremely useful - imagine the power of an RC with 50% additional DI. The disco masteries, while mana intensive, are also pretty powerful, especially for finishing off opponents. I haven't tried them PVP, but I'd imagine they'd work well there as well.

 

[popps]

realistically (and i have a tamer bard on every shard, so i have a little experiance in them) your not gonna be able to run the disco masteries on a tamer bard.

Well, apparently the above ends the debate, unless anyone else comes up with some solid template and gear set up that shows a Bard/Tamer can use Masteries well, we can only conclude that Bard masteries are, sadly, a no-no for Bard Tamers........

Sad, though, because on paper, they look nice to be used to help out a pet in the fight...

Of course, in a party with a dedicated Bard with 120 Meditation, 120 Focus and loaded up with MR items that could be an entire different story, but that's talking party, not solo Tamer/Bard..........

 

[ultima77]

Well, apparently the above ends the debate, unless anyone else comes up with some solid template and gear set up that shows a Bard/Tamer can use Masteries well, we can only conclude that Bard masteries are, sadly, a no-no for Bard Tamers........

Sad, though, because on paper, they look nice to be used to help out a pet in the fight...

Of course, in a party with a dedicated Bard with 120 Meditation, 120 Focus and loaded up with MR items that could be an entire different story, but that's talking party, not solo Tamer/Bard..........

No, he was referring merely to the disco masteries, which are far more mana intensive.

 

[popps]

Well, apparently the above ends the debate, unless anyone else comes up with some solid template and gear set up that shows a Bard/Tamer can use Masteries well, we can only conclude that Bard masteries are, sadly, a no-no for Bard Tamers........

Sad, though, because on paper, they look nice to be used to help out a pet in the fight...

Of course, in a party with a dedicated Bard with 120 Meditation, 120 Focus and loaded up with MR items that could be an entire different story, but that's talking party, not solo Tamer/Bard..........

No, he was referring merely to the disco masteries, which are far more mana intensive.

You mean Peace and Provoke masteries are still feasible for a Bard Tamer ??

What type of template/suit should have a Bard/Tamer who wanted to use Bard Masteries and heal pet ?

 

[ultima77]

You mean Peace and Provoke masteries are still feasible for a Bard Tamer ??

What type of template/suit should have a Bard/Tamer who wanted to use Bard Masteries and heal pet ?

I posted my template above - you need 120 Med and 10+ MR, but it is definitely feasible. With 120 Disco, 120 Peace, and 40% LMC, the upkeep on Perseverance is about 1 mana per second with a pet, which complicates chaining GHs, but it is still possible with a longer pause between casting. However, the ~20% damage decrease more than makes up for the delays in casting.

Additionally, the changes in barding have made directed peaceing viable again, at least when combined with Disco. Think of it this way - with a slayer, originally you had a 30% chance at peacing on a 160 barding difficulty MOB. However, discoing a creature drops the difficulty, and with 10% bonus for peaceing mastery, you have an ~50% chance at directed peace. Combined with the far shorter timeouts, directed peace + Perseverance is a great combo.

 

[popps]

I posted my template above - you need 120 Med and 10+ MR, but it is definitely feasible. With 120 Disco, 120 Peace, and 40% LMC, the upkeep on Perseverance is about 1 mana per second with a pet, which complicates chaining GHs, but it is still possible with a longer pause between casting. However, the ~20% damage decrease more than makes up for the delays in casting.

Additionally, the changes in barding have made directed peaceing viable again, at least when combined with Disco. Think of it this way - with a slayer, originally you had a 30% chance at peacing on a 160 barding difficulty MOB. However, discoing a creature drops the difficulty, and with 10% bonus for peaceing mastery, you have an ~50% chance at directed peace. Combined with the far shorter timeouts, directed peace + Perseverance is a great combo.

So, let me see if I understood it well.

You suggest first discording the Boss then fire up Perseverance and then, using the bonus to peacing, direct peace the Boss also while the pet is fighting it.

And this, would be feasible with 120 Meditation and a suit with 40% LMC and at least +10 MR while still keeping the ability to Greater Heal the pet during the fight.

Did I get it right ?

For the record, Preservance= Party Defense Chance increased by up to 16%, Damage reduced by up to 16%. Casting focus bonus 1-4%

But if the Boss is peaced, it is not fighting anyways so, not doing damage.....

Wouldn't it be better to instead use Resilience= Poison resistance increase(not the stat), Mortal, Bleed, Curse effect Durations decreased, Hp regen bonus 2-8, mana regen bonus 2-8, stamina regen bonus 2-8 ? It would help the pet in the fight...

 

[ultima77]

So, let me see if I understood it well.

You suggest first discording the Boss then fire up Perseverance and then, using the bonus to peacing, direct peace the Boss also while the pet is fighting it.

And this, would be feasible with 120 Meditation and a suit with 40% LMC and at least +10 MR while still keeping the ability to Greater Heal the pet during the fight.

Did I get it right ?

For the record, Preservance= Party Defense Chance increased by up to 16%, Damage reduced by up to 16%. Casting focus bonus 1-4%

But if the Boss is peaced, it is not fighting anyways so, not doing damage.....

Wouldn't it be better to instead use Resilience= Poison resistance increase(not the stat), Mortal, Bleed, Curse effect Durations decreased, Hp regen bonus 2-8, mana regen bonus 2-8, stamina regen bonus 2-8 ? It would help the pet in the fight...

Pretty much have it right, although I would like to clarify one thing - every additional bard skill you have on a tamer other than the one you have a mastery in boosts the potency of the mastery. For example, if you just have 120 music and peace, perseverance reduces damage taken by 16%; however, if you have 120 disco and 120 peace, damage is reduced by 19%, and if you are 4X legendary bard, damage is reduced by 22%. Also, with Disco and Peace, all the regens for Resilience are boosted to +9 I think.

I'm sure Resilience would help as well. There are many strategies I want to try, however I've only had a chance to try the aforementioned one.