Bard changes are horrible

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I have a bard, and I disagree with you. So don't go assuming you speak for anything more than a subset of bard players.

I didn't say agree with me, I said have your say, you're disagreeing with having your say? People keep saying stop whining like we shouldn't post on issues that affect us. I haven't spoke for anyone but myself or claimed to.

You haven't answered why re-taking entitlement quests is necessary.

 

[Kiminality]

Don't you have a Stratics Alt that wasn't so bitter all the time? Or is that the pointinality of THIS one?

That wasn't very witty, really.
I assumed you were trying to be, otherwise your post would just be trolling...

I have a bard, and I disagree with you. So don't go assuming you speak for anything more than a subset of bard players.
I therefore submit that you dwell under a bridge.

I didn't say agree with me, I said have your say, because people keep telling us to stop whining when we have just as much right to post on issues that concern us as anyone else. I also haven't spoke for anyone but myself or claimed to. So before you go submitting things maybe you should make sure you've read and understood them.

Oh and by the way you still haven't answered the question from the other thread, the apparently good reason why re-taking entitlement is necessary, but then I can understand how you wouldn't be able to keep track of it with all your trollrage.

Nope.
What you were saying is that the bards should "drown out the trolls of the unaffected", which implies that "bards" and "unaffected" are separate groups, and that the "unaffected" were trolls.
Ultimately, "us and them".

Anyway, you've already had your answer.
And the reason I didn't state the obvious to you when you asked is that I knew it would be pointless to keep arguing with you.
Your entire position is that you shouldn't have to make a choice, because that would mean there are things you couldn't do, that you'd ultimately have to choose not to do. Then you back up your arguments with statements of how neglected bards are, or how they're a "support class".
Yes, I'll agree that not getting credit for discording is something that needs attention, but there's a few dozen problems there.
But, the problem is twofold:
1.) The idea that all classes should be functionally equivalent deeply flawed, and making them so would be one of the worst things that could be done for the game. Instead, there should be benefits for the supporting roles - you shouldn't -have- to be a top damager to have any chance of a return.
2.) The idea that having to make the choice is a bad thing. There are choices everywhere in the game - what skills to take, when level to take them to, what stats, what equipment, what equipment to use, what to ride, what to hunt. It's the choices that make the game diverse, and if you just let everyone switch masteries on the fly, you're removing potential diversity.
Although, I'd say that a polar can/can't depending on the quest you take could stand to see some improvement.
Perhaps being able to use any of them, at (skill / 20)% intensity (120.0 skill being 60%), and the one you pick mastery in being 100% would still leave the choice, while allowing flexibility.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Nope.
What you were saying is that the bards should "drown out the trolls of the unaffected", which implies that "bards" and "unaffected" are separate groups, and that the "unaffected" were trolls.
Ultimately, "us and them".

They are seperate groups, this is a thread about bards, yet there are people who have themsleves said they either don't have a bard or haven't tested the changes saying that the rest of us in the thread - primarily those who feel negatively restricted, such as myself who has 2 bard skills on my template and would have a restriced choice, and also as a caster bard when spells (under the origional revision but not atm) were cast would stop the effect - should stop whining.

I really don't see whats so objectionable about that, I don't appreciate being told to 'stop whining' about an issue that clearly affects me by someone who it clearly doesn't. Is that unreasonable?

Anyway, you've already had your answer.
And the reason I didn't state the obvious to you when you asked is that I knew it would be pointless to keep arguing with you.

I'm not arguing, I'm asking a question, why is it necessary, Logrus originally said some things that I took as the answer (and not a particularly good one), then he came back and said that I had took them out of context and they weren't the reason. I said ok, thats fine maybe I did, but it still left it unanswered.

Your entire position is that you shouldn't have to make a choice, because that would mean there are things you couldn't do, that you'd ultimately have to choose not to do. Then you back up your arguments with statements of how neglected bards are, or how they're a "support class".

A choice is opening the book seeing four spells you're entitled to and picking one of them.
A choice is not opening the book seeing four spells you're entitled to and only being able to pick from two of them.

I haven't said they're a support class, that was someone else, I don't see them that way, but I'm well aware that its how they are viewed.

Yes, I'll agree that not getting credit for discording is something that needs attention, but there's a few dozen problems there.

Not particularly something I mind. I was only referencing it in regard to how people view bards as support.

1.) The idea that all classes should be functionally equivalent deeply flawed, and making them so would be one of the worst things that could be done for the game.

I don't want them to be functionally equivalent, I just want my bard to be able to use everything my bard has skills for.

2.) The idea that having to make the choice is a bad thing. There are choices everywhere in the game - what skills to take, when level to take them to, what stats, what equipment, what equipment to use, what to ride, what to hunt. It's the choices that make the game diverse, and if you just let everyone switch masteries on the fly, you're removing potential diversity.

Choice is the best thing in UO, which is mainly what the problem is, we're not being given a full choice we're being given a restricted choice. How are you removing potential diversity when you would need the same skills on the template to have any choice restricted or not?


I'd like to know, if it wasn't necessary to retake that quest to change masteries, having done it once was enough, would that prevent the abilities working for you how you want them to? Atm I can't see how it would.

 

[puni666]

I didn't say agree with me, I said have your say, you're disagreeing with having your say? People keep saying stop whining like we shouldn't post on issues that affect us. I haven't spoke for anyone but myself or claimed to.

You haven't answered why re-taking entitlement quests is necessary.

What are you being effected by again? The fact you get an extra useful ability now? Oh gotcha... god forbid you have to do something to use it/change it...

Have you ever switched your race a few times? I have to do a quest every time I change to use the abilities for w/e race. Should we do away with that too?

 

[yars]

really cause they make race tokens?
whats that have to do with the price of tea in china?
why cant people just realize, a group of people who have bards would like to have some input about the changes. seems everytime (and not just this subject) the "people who know best" have to cram there side down our throats or derail the thread. if you dont agree fine.the changes are coming thnk you logrus, and all who attempted to make out points valid.

 

[Splup]

I'm taking the lazy way here instead of going on TC and try it out.

Soo, lets say my bard has all, music, peace, provo and disco. Can I still use normally these old peace, provo and disco abilities? And then on top of that I can choose one mastery and get that special ability?

Or is it like I'm afraid of, I need to choose and only use one of em?

 

[Babble]

How about giving the provo song a 90% chance once to provoke any monster onto another - ignoring being bardable or skill level of the monster. I would guess that would be useful for all bards.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

What are you being effected by again? The fact you get an extra useful ability now? Oh gotcha... god forbid you have to do something to use it/change it...

I'm affected by a restriction placed on something I'm entitled to with the skills on my template, I have Prov & Discord yet they're saying I can only use the mastery for Prov or Discord. And no, not really, they aren't particularly useful, which is even less reason why they need so many restrictions. But given how long its been coming I'd like the choice.

Have you ever switched your race a few times? I have to do a quest every time I change to use the abilities for w/e race. Should we do away with that too?

Race isn't a skill. You can't be half human half elf so you're not entitled to both.
Do you have to do a quest to change between Necro and Mage spells? No.
Do you have to do a quest to change between weapons and specials? No.
If you were a Disarm/Archer it would be pretty riddiculous to have to leave the fight to do a quest to change between melee and ranged.
Or lets make it more relavent still, Spellweaving requires an activation quest, a quest for Summon Fey & a quest for Summon Fiend, yet you don't have to re-take those quests to change between them, you just do them once and are entitled.

Why should I have to do something to change between skill abilities, no other skill does, if you've got the skills on your template and done both quests you should be entitled to both masteries.

 

[Lord Chaos]

1.) The idea that all classes should be functionally equivalent deeply flawed, and making them so would be one of the worst things that could be done for the game. Instead, there should be benefits for the supporting roles - you shouldn't -have- to be a top damager to have any chance of a return.

How is it a bad thing? It works quite well in other games. Very few people want to just sit back and play a support role and not actually get in on the action. And even then, they're much easier to dual box, than deal with a live player.

2.) The idea that having to make the choice is a bad thing. There are choices everywhere in the game - what skills to take, when level to take them to, what stats, what equipment, what equipment to use, what to ride, what to hunt. It's the choices that make the game diverse, and if you just let everyone switch masteries on the fly, you're removing potential diversity.

The difference is that a bard already made the choice in terms of skills, he shouldn't be punished for not making FOTM bards instead of full bards. the problem is that because of the mana cost, true bards are being double punished, as FOTM bards will have much better mana management than someone who has invested 360/480 skill points already.

It doesn't create diversity when you have to go "oh damn, I can't go with you guys, because I have the wrong mastery, can you wait an hour while I respec?" That would be like a warrior having to go do a quest every time he had to switch slayer weapon or a mage having to do a quest when switching between different types of damage spells.

The saddest thing is that everyone is now training up support chars, 3 different chars...1 peace/music, 1 provo/music and 1 disco/music, then they add focus and meditation + high MR/LMC suit (easy with imbuing) and then viola, real bards just became extremely useless except if friends wants to drag you along for your personalitys sake. That is just not diversity, that is trouncing the real bards and strengthening side-bards and FOTM bards.

Honestly, as a tamer/bard (in regards to cost), where exactly am I going to get room to have meditation or focus on my template? The cost is stupid, it should have had a timer depending on your combined bard skills instead, that would favor real bards and not make FOTM bards so powerful.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Also, as another point.

Why would a group take along a real bard, over taking along 3 boxed bards with each of the skills so you can combine the power of all three.

Honestly, this has happened in every MMO that has made support classes like this.

IMO, every skill group in UO should have real playing power of some sort.

 

[puni666]

I think someone doesn't understand the point of a playing a mmorpg.

 

[Lord Chaos]

I think someone doesn't understand the point of a playing a mmorpg.

The point of playing MMOs is to having boxed support classes...ok?

Its more sounding like you don't understand MMOs

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The view that its an MMO and should have grouping and support characters is equally defeated by the restriction. Support characters can support much better the more options they have. You're not supporting anyone if you have to leave to change ability.

 

[Babble]

I think someone doesn't understand the point of a playing a mmorpg.

But why play UO then when other mmos have way better features for their support classes?

 

[Violence]

Re:

I haven't gone through the whole thread but I've read Logrus's post concerning Bards getting the changes they asked for regarding their new abilities.

Why is this still going on, again? Just curious.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Re:

I haven't gone through the whole thread but I've read Logrus's post concerning Bards getting the changes they asked for regarding their new abilities.

Why is this still going on, again? Just curious.

There were two problems that affected me, only being able to have one mastery entitled at a time and not being able to cast with the effects active. Logrus has said that the casting one will be changed for the majority of them, with the probable exception of Despair (That and Tribulation are the ones you mainly need to cast with - as when you do damage you're going to get hit and need to heal.) But the casting problem is mainly considered lifted. The first problem afawksf isn't being changed.

 

[Lord Chaos]

The view that its an MMO and should have grouping and support characters is equally defeated by the restriction. Support characters can support much better the more options they have. You're not supporting anyone if you have to leave to change ability.

UO has existed just fine for years without pushing people into support character roles.

There's no whole skill group (aka 3 or more skills in group) that is a support class atm, they all have power in their own right and can play by themselves.

Bards have just been neglected for years while the power of other groups have risen. Eventually making bards weaker and weaker.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

UO has existed just fine for years without pushing people into support character roles.

There's no whole skill group (aka 3 or more skills in group) that is a support class atm, they all have power in their own right and can play by themselves.

Bards have just been neglected for years while the power of other groups have risen. Eventually making bards weaker and weaker.

I know. I was disagreeing with Puni666.

I don't regard bards as a support class.

 

[Brytt]

So.... I just led a couple friends through Tokuno Mines (let me preface that we're not adventurers--at all!--we're socialites) and, thanks to provocation, we made it to the Fire Beetle. That won't sound impressive to anyone, really, but for me, that's great! And I'm not a warrior or a great mage or anything, I just pluck a lute. And set HUGE monsters upon each other!

I just want everyone to step back from the trees and think about Bards in this game compared to, say, Bards in any other MMO. You've gotta admit, we're pretty beefy. The fact that we're being made more beefy than we are is ridiculously exciting to me, and I balance the fact that I'm going to have to choose a specialization against other MMOs where I'd have MUCH fewer choices of skill distributions than I do in UO, or where bards sit not on the back line, but behind the back line where their only purpose is to buff someone else who gets all the fun.

I can't wait to specialize. I seriously cannot wait. I don't want to be "just like every other bard out there" and the fact that I have another bard in the guild makes it twice as cool, because we can pick different specializations that complement each other. I think if I wanted to master all of the skills in my class, I'd go back and play WoW again.

Oh, wait. I've got to specialize there, too. Dang.

 

[Babble]

But why not make the specials stronger for the bard?

The beauty of UO is that it did/does not have the unholy trinity (Tank/Healer/damage).
I have not played EQ nor DAOC but I think both had bards more as support classes putting them into the trinity classes UO avoided.

The changes are cute but for that much time they used to implement things they also could have looked at the probaility charts to provoke monsters and the usability of it.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Brytt, you can't set "huge" monsters against eachother, at least not strengthwise, you will fail a ton, even at legendary.

Bards of UO are not Bards of other games, bards were once on equal level with other class trees, powerful in their own right. But now the other classes have been boosted and strengthened, while bards has been given very very little over the years and no real strength in boost.

While specializing is cool, why punish those who are true bards over FOTM bards? If you're the only played bard, you really think a party is going to wait for you while you go do your quest to switch to the needed mastery?

No, many people are (and already are) going to create bard mules, 3 of them, one for each bard type, then add masteries to them and then play the bard as a boxed character.

After all, a true bard will have trouble fitting meditation and focus on their template...while a FOTM bard can easily put meditation and focus on their suit and have their abilities last for quite a while.

I've never felt so tempted at scripting my mule bards and simply mothballing my main bard. She doesn't have meditation or focus and as such will only be able to sustain a mastery a very very short time.

 

[Violence]

In Logrus's own words(the short version), on top of what's changed and added already :

1. All Abilities: No longer interrupted by any bard skills.

2. Anything except Despair will not be interrupted by the bard casting spells.

3. AOE Party Effects:
Allowing bard to run multiple spell songs at the same time.

4. All Abilities:
Lower mana cost for casting and up-keep if the bard has multiple bard skills.

So here we go with your "issues" Lord Chaos :

"While specializing is cool, why punish those who are true bards over FOTM bards?"
- 1, 2, 3, 4. "Punish"? You've just received a BOOST. In this occassion I believe playing the semantics game IS fair enough.

"If you're the only played bard, you really think a party is going to wait for you while you go do your quest to switch to the needed mastery?"
- 1, 2, 3.

"Many people are going to create bard mules, 3 of them, one for each bard type, then add masteries to them and then play the bard as a boxed character."
- Redundant; 1, 3. Plus why would anyone care what another person does as long as it is within the rules, to maximize their gaming experience as they see fit? We all do exactly that, what's your point with this again? If you want the candy someone else is getting, just reach and grab, know what I mean? Don't complain about what others might or might not choose to do if nothing is wrong or broken.

"A true bard will have trouble fitting meditation and focus on their template."
- 4. Honestly it's not about what bard YOU consider to be "true" or not, it's what bard template works for what you want to achieve. If I want to play a Chef/Camper/Item ID/Forensic Evaluator by choice, knowing this combination does not make sense, I can't call it a true [Whatever] and complain if it doesn't do what I built if for. See below;

"FOTM bards can easily put meditation and focus on their suit and have their abilities last for quite a while."
- 4. And what's the difference between FOTM bards and other bards? One can use ALL the spell songs at the same time including possibly other spells and abilities and all at a reduced mana cost for being a "true" bard as you put it, the other can use fewer but can also be a more effective combatant on their own and regenerate mana faster(makes absolute sense, that). Trade-offs, I believe it's called. Or choices if you prefer. And FOTM templates tend to be "nerfed" to put it as FOTM players put it.

"She doesn't have meditation or focus and as such will only be able to sustain a mastery a very, very short time."
- 4. Poor, poor little thing!.. However was it decided that bard changes actually should not revolve around her..? Jokes aside, see above.

So, ughh... What more could you possibly want? And it's not even out on the regular servers so it might as well see further improvements(I only hope it's not a decision EA/M will make based on incessant whining). Logrus was already considering a couple as he posted that, I've just not put them up here because they are not certain to go in. Plus since they took up fixing bards, EA/M's response time on this has improved by what? 100000000000000%? Logrus responded within the week or something after the first changes and additions, where as you say it was ages before they ever touched bards prior to that.

I stood corrected when in another post I was shown the new additions required some fine-tuning. But now here you are chanting about how weak bards STILL are in Ultima, over and over. This time I don't think I'm too wrong in saying you are nearly asking for too much, and I have enough game experience to suspect your personal wants will soon flood into my game-play, un-balancing combat.

Seriously do you push for Bards turning into Mages #2 before the changes ever hit the regular shards?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

what's the difference between FOTM bards and other bards?

You can not change masteries mid fight, so a template with...

120 Music/120 Prov/120 Discord/120 Peace is limited to 2 spells out of 6.

Someone with...

120 Music/120 Discord is not affected by not being able to change masteries mid fight because they aren't entitled to more than 2 in the first place.

Templates with only 1 bard skill are 9 times out of 10 Tamers, Necros, Archers who have a lot of offence from their other skills.
Templates with multiple bard skills have less room for additional offence, yet they're being restricted by the mastery selection. So people who are playing their bards as bards are restricted, while people who may just be using 1 bard skill to maximize the effects of their other skills are unaffected and get the 'what are you all complaining for its a bonus' view that so many have.

Logrus also said he believes pure templates should be better than hybrids (which obviously isn't the case in UO, but regardless he said it) how does this above situation reflect that? It doesn't.

One can use ALL the spell songs at the same time

No you can't. You will be able to use 2 at the same time, for the mastery path you are on, each mastery has 2 spells you can still only be on one path at a time and have to leave and do a quest to change (which is the majority of what Lord Chaos is saying). As above this has no effect on your typical Discord/Tamer hybrid, but plenty of effect on a multiple bard skill bard, such as me! Who has Prov/Discord. If they're going to give us a bonus, then give us the bonus, not 1/3rd of it.

 

[NuSair]

Are you going to add the "Mohawk grenade" next?

Quoted for awesomeness.

But to be fair, Bard Songs had effects LONG before WoW, Everquest or even UO.

Look up The Bards Tale sometimes (one of the BEST GAMES EVER).

 

[Violence]

I understand, either I missed that bit about not being able to change masteries on the spot or it wasn't in Logrus's newer post. Or maybe it was a case of "Excuse my English" as I may have not understood what I was reading.

For what it matters I definitely agree on that one, it's illogical the way that works.

"Logrus also said he believes pure templates should be better than hybrids (which obviously isn't the case in UO, but regardless he said it), how does this above situation reflect that? It doesn't."

I am at a loss!! On one hand Logrus seems to promote the "What Works Best" point of view, 90% of the time meaning FOTM templates and gimp tactics and now you tell me he said that?! And to top it off, indeed it doesn't reflect on ANY situation similar to this one. I suppose I need not mention what's going on with Poisoning and the Assassin template, an issue Logrus has recently touched as well?.. Knowing he's also in favour of DR I am starting to wonder about these contradictions.. And yes, this is UO, THE game to play if you enjoy hybrid characters. I'll have to semi-quote another poster on this, what game is he actually playing!?

Anyway, I hope there's another swift change to fix this, however bards shouldn't need anything else after that, I still believe that.

If only Logrus would also be more willing to try different approaches to the consumables system or at least to Poisoning.

 

[NuSair]

Maybe they need to differentiate between longbows, shortbows, and crossbows. In order to be the master of one you have to go shoot 5 pigs from the correct distance. What? Switch bows you say? Well darn the crossbow uses bolts instead of arrows. You better go back and practice on pigs from close range, then you can use that crossbow like a master.

Looking past the sarcasm in the post, personally I like the idea.

If you are GM or Legendary in a weapon skill, you can pick one of those weapons to 'master'. That's actually a pretty solid idea.

 

[NuSair]

Yes but you don't lose the ability to cast WOD when you summon Pixies which are entitled from a different quest.

Actually, it would be more correct to compare the Summon Faries and the Summon Imps spells.

 

[Violence]

I would not want the Mastery system to become a trend at all unless Masteries in anything, never diminish or exclude anything else, no matter what. I'd rather have them simply boosting certain core abilities(or giving new ones) that are the main elements of all available templates.
So I suppose I'd be for it since I like specialization and "pure" templates, if all it took to master something was a quest and skill points and stats investment. Also having to switch, at all.. I doubt I'd like that even then.

Either you're entitled to something or not, as long as you've "paid" for it.

 

[Cetric]

God, they add a new feature to bards, that doesn't hurt bards in any way. And everyone starts crying, jeez.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Anyway, I hope there's another swift change to fix this, however bards shouldn't need anything else after that, I still believe that.

I do too - for this system at least - I posted an entirely seperate idea in the bard forum. It was only really the masteries and/or spell casting that were a problem for most people. We weren't asking for the moon on a stick like a lot of people have been insinuating.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Actually, it would be more correct to compare the Summon Faries and the Summon Imps spells.

I did that too, further on

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

that doesn't hurt bards in any way.

Yes it does.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Quoted for awesomeness.

But to be fair, Bard Songs had effects LONG before WoW, Everquest or even UO.

Look up The Bards Tale sometimes (one of the BEST GAMES EVER).

Amen to that. Heck even Bards in Ultima proper had a use.

 

[Lord Chaos]

I mean really, even if people do take true bards with them in a group, this is how its going to be like:

"Hey, guys, here's your 5 second hitpoints boost, then I'll go over in the corner for 20 minutes while my mana sloooowly regerates because I don't have meditation and focus...do carry on and please consider giving me a little loot when you're done"

 

[NuSair]

I did that too, further on

Noticed that... sorry, was just replying as I ready through.

 

[NuSair]

I just want everyone to step back from the trees and think about Bards in this game compared to, say, Bards in any other MMO. You've gotta admit, we're pretty beefy.

Bards in UO can't hold a candle to the Bards in EQ.

Twisting 6 songs at a time FTW.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Yeah, sadly as the other main classes grew in power (or already had power), bards stayed static and through that got comparably weaker and weaker.

 

[LordDrago]

Actually to clarify:
1. I didnt say a pure template should be more powerful than a hybrid.
I said a pure mage -should- be a better mage than a necro mage.
So if you say wanted to duel, Necro Mage vs Pure mage and have it limited to MAGERY only, I believe the pure mage should have some benefits as befitting any character person or otherwise who has dedicated themselves to a single goal.

Now if that pure mage was to go toe to toe with a necro mage, with all skills open to use, then thats an altogether different thing.
Not that a Pure mage should be more powerful than a necro mage or whatever template variant. That would defeat the purpose of hybrids altogether.

2. Easier to code for me, meant that using an already tested and functioning system to achieve my end of preventing flip flopping of masteries without risking introducing a host of bugs and issues that creating a completely new mechanic may do.

Logrus,

Are you looking forward (that is, forward in time, not as in anticipation) to a point where a pure mage will be able to have a mastery as well? examples being the various elements?

I could actually see this happening, thus making a pure mage with a mastery a more paowerful mage than a necro mage or mystic mage or SW mage.

 

[gjohnson5]

It appears that disco no longer works against peerless
The devs conveniently left out that part....

So Bards were nerfed

 

[phoenix11]

Why use disco now, It's not like my dragon when I get looting rights from using it, Now I just get targeted and no looting rights, Thanks.

 

[Connor_Graham]

It appears that disco no longer works against peerless
The devs conveniently left out that part....

So Bards were nerfed

This isn't good news if it is truly the case.

 

[Shelleybean]

It appears that disco no longer works against peerless
The devs conveniently left out that part....

So Bards were nerfed

What peerless were you fighting????

 

[yars]

there are a couple peerless you could not disco to begin with, slasher is one of them
lady mel still works and so does navery

 

[gjohnson5]

there are a couple peerless you could not disco to begin with, slasher is one of them
lady mel still works and so does navery

1. navrey isn't peerless
2. I haven't disco'd lady m since the change. I've also asked atleast 3 other people (on GL) if they could and all have said no

 

[Lord Chaos]

Its the age of the mule bards. Was gathering a group and one guy asked if he should bring his bard, we said sure, then he asked "my peacer, my provoker or my disco bard?"

Its totally stupid

Just get music, <peace,provo or disco>, meditation, focus and magery. Then you have the perfect bard mule for groups, vastly superior to a real bard.

 

[zamot]

Yars I believe you are wrong with Slasher. I have discorded it in the past. I have not tried recently though. I used a demon slayer, it took awhile but I got it to work.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

there are a couple peerless you could not disco to begin with, slasher is one of them
lady mel still works and so does navery

Slasher has always been Discordable. They all are.

 

[zamot]

pheonix11, Discord will not flag the bard. The masteries will if you use them. You still dont get looting rights unless you do damage but I guess you know that.

 

[Beastmaster]

I think people are confusing the fact that discorded peerless do not get fully discorded like normal mobs. At 120 discord you should be able to knock a mob down 22%, but peerless are only dropped 10%. (those figures may be off a bit but you get the idea, been awhile since I checked)

 

[NuSair]

It appears that disco no longer works against peerless
The devs conveniently left out that part....

So Bards were nerfed

I just landed Discord on Mel.