70's ONLY elitist crap

[Ferrous_Ironclaw]

ok...for the past few days, my blood pressure has been rising over the goings on in the guild im in. firstoff, a little back story: ive been playing wow for almost a year now. i joined this guild on my first day. one of the main tenets for which the guild stands is helping other guild members, pretty much the norm in most guilds. only it was serious in this one, there was always people willing to help anyone with anything. so, about a month ago, it was decided to split off a "sister guild" for raiding purposes. whatever. so a lot of the 70s went into this guild because for some reason they couldnt raid in the main guild. now all of a sudden they have time to raid, and actually go on them. where did the extra magic time come from? thier names not being listed in the guild so lower levels cant find them as easily to bother them for assistance. ive been ranting to whomever will listen about this for days now. the most common answer i get boils down to them not wanting to help others anymore, cause they have to get the best, most leet gear they can. a few levels back one of the elite guys (whom id helped more than once in the past) didnt want to give us a hand to blast some quests out in ramps cause nothing he needed dropped there. so he went to farm. someone else told me they did some research and all the best raiding guilds are 70 only. again, this tells me they dont want to help others anymore. im not saying this applies to everyone, but it does apply enough to make me sick. my guild (and many, many others ill wager) are based upon, and stand by, the helping of others. every single person in this game started off at level one, and at some point or another they needed help with something. i may not be able to help a lot of those who helped me gaining xp or stuff they need (yet), but i WILL repay that karmic debt by helping the newer, lower level members of my guild in any way i can. once WotLK comes out, everyone is going to be grinding and farming xp again so theyre gonna need help, and they may have alienated too many people with thier 70s only elitist crap to get the help they need.


i WILL save this guild from tearing itself asunder.















(sorry about the rant)



Kharrn, Officer Ancient Realms, Alliance, Thrall

 

[Guest]

You won't save the guild. This is how 99% of the people who play this game are. It's happened in all the guilds I've ever led or been in or even heard about. Once people get to the raiding point they basically just want to raid and not help any of the "lesser" people out anymore because there's "nothing in it for me".

Your guild has already split up, it has happened in the one I am in recently and the guild leader told me it happened before. It'll happen again (but NOT WITH ME! I will not leave, I'm not a selfish JERK), sadly. People are greedy and very few care about friendships made online. Friendship? What's that? Teammates? Never heard of it. ME ME ME ME ME, it's all about ME...

*sigh*

 

[Guest]

So you don't have a 70? The it is YOU who are being selfish, IMHO. Why should the 70's be wasting their time running lowbies through SM and Ulda? They could be out raiding or running their dailies.

You may think I am being sarcastic, but I'm not. If there is nothing in it for me, I won't help. I am to busy to be helping some lowbie complete his BFD quests. That's what a PUG is for.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You may think I am being sarcastic, but I'm not. If there is nothing in it for me, I won't help. I am to busy to be helping some lowbie complete his BFD quests. That's what a PUG is for.

[/ QUOTE ]No, that's what guilds are for.

Guilds are supposed to be groups of friends who work together and look out for each other.

If you're only doing stuff that benefits you, then you're being selfish. Just because someone isn't a 70 doesn't mean they aren't as valuable to the game as you are. In fact, it could easily be argued that as someone who isn't contributing to the guild by helping others, you have less right to be there than they are, and you should quit.

As someone who has, pretty much soloed all the way to 44 so far with only help from my rl partner who also plays, I have slowed down to help my friends on lower levels with the occasional difficult quest that doesn't benefit me in the slightest - but the satisfaction of being helpful is worth more to me than a few xp or gold pieces.

Considering that *anyone* can make it to level 70, given enough time, I don't see it as much of an achievement to be perfectly blunt with you, and that's why it doesn't bother me that I haven't gotten there yet.

PUGs are often full of other people with little to no experience of the quests you're trying to do, so it surely makes sense that higher level people who HAVE done the quests are the right people to be asking for help - especially people that you can trust because you know them - and an effective, properly managed guild is the best place for everyone.

If the guild you are in was ONLY for level 70's, then great - but if your guild charter lets in people below that level, then you really have no reason to complain about those of us who haven't got there yet. Perhaps you're the one that should leave and find another guild more suited to your needs?

 

[Eldorian]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You may think I am being sarcastic, but I'm not. If there is nothing in it for me, I won't help. I am to busy to be helping some lowbie complete his BFD quests. That's what a PUG is for.

[/ QUOTE ]No, that's what guilds are for.


[/ QUOTE ]

Completely depends on the guild.

Some guilds are all about helping people out, some are about being the best at the end game. Thing is - they can't really be both, it's one or the other because of how much time and the timing involved in getting 10+ people who know WHAT they're doing to get together at the same time to run a 2-3 (or more) hour raid.

I know I currently quit the raid guild I was in because of the above attitude (as well as my friends) and we all joined the Stratics guild this weekend. Our goal is to essentially have fun in the game, maybe run some old world instances and maybe possibly do some heroics and maybe go into Kara - but we're not going to be hardcore about it.

 

[Ferrous_Ironclaw]

i DO have a 70 and i have no problems helping others. spent most of friday nite helping a lvl 55 pally in my guild do some quests in EPL. ran some others thfough blood furnace last night. i havent even done a raid yet, and been 70 for 2 weeks already.

 

[Ferrous_Ironclaw]

oh, and i did save it. mostly. all but 2 of the 70s in the split guild came back and are happy to be there. maybe there is hope for humanity.

 

[Guest]

What a shame!

However, I have noticed the "me" mentality on more occasions, unfortunately.

I am in a wonderful guild. They do raids, but are not a raiding guild. However, there is a raiding guild that my guild raids with. But any time I have asked for help, there is always someone willing to help out, and I am usually willing to help others out.

Unfortunately, my time is limited. I have two 70's at the moment, but neither of them have seen most of the end game content. I just don't have time to sit for hours in an instance. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

So my guild suits me fine. If I was in your guild, I would have quit long ago. I'd rather be solo than play in a guild that weren't friends.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I just don't have time to sit for hours in an instance. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

[/ QUOTE ]Aren't some of them like needing 40 people, and take 8 hours to complete?

What is that all about??? Maybe there's some kinda nerdish prestige out of completing something that not many have done, but meh... I can think of things I'd rather be doing than spending 8 hours glued to the computer in full concentration mode.

That's what work is for...

 

[Eldorian]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I just don't have time to sit for hours in an instance. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

[/ QUOTE ]Aren't some of them like needing 40 people, and take 8 hours to complete?

What is that all about??? Maybe there's some kinda nerdish prestige out of completing something that not many have done, but meh... I can think of things I'd rather be doing than spending 8 hours glued to the computer in full concentration mode.

That's what work is for...

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the popular ones are 10 mans.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Most of the popular ones are 10 mans.

[/ QUOTE ]When I hit level 70, some time in about 3 years time, it'll be interesting to see some of them.

 

[Ferrous_Ironclaw]

well, m happy to say the guild is pulling itself back together. we lost a couple who had no interest in helping others anymore (ironic cause i remember them asking for help all the time on thier way up) but we're stronger now than ever.

teamwork ftw

 

[Guest]

I truly hope it stays that way for you! Go team go!

 

[Bo Riddler]

<blockquote><hr>


Completely depends on the guild.



[/ QUOTE ]

Also, it greatly depends on the player. Mostly, I use guild for the chat feature. I don't raid, or hit big instances, mainly just play in small groups or pugs. I like most of the guilds I am in for the guild chat. I also rarely use the guild banks.

Every player is so different, guilds are hard to generalize the way this thread has them hen pecked.

Bo

 

[Lord Abernathy]

Before BC, you have 40-men raids, which can take 3-4 hours (or more of course depending on how familiar you are with the instance)....but the instance is "saved" meaning if you cleared up to a certain point, you can come back the next day and continuing with starting all over again. And then the instance is reset every week (usually on Tuesday, during maintenance).

After BC, there are no more 40-men raids, the largest # is now 25 people. And plenty of 5 and 10's. So the raiding time is quite short actually. Like yesterday, I did my first 5-man Magisters Terrance (the newest instance with latest patch), and finished it in about 45-50 min.....but this is with friends who know the place. I'd imagine if it's a PuG, it may take at least 1.5 to 2 hours.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

No, that's what guilds are for......... etc...etc..etc.....

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is where you are seriously wrong. A guild does not have to be a big love fest where all the 70's run all the newbs through VC, WC, SM, Ulda, etc..etc...

It's not a wonder that you have not progressed through the game.

But that's okie. The rest of us will continue to experience all of the great end game stuff. You know, the stuff we pay for with the expansion. IMHO, you are wasting your money. It's like going to an amusement park, paying your $20 to get in... then just sitting there and watching everyone ride the rides.

 

[Lord Abernathy]

<blockquote><hr>

It's like going to an amusement park, paying your $20 to get in... then just sitting there and watching everyone ride the rides.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I think that's what some people do. Just because you pay to get inside, it doesn't mean you have to experience every single ride there is. Some people love the merry-go-around, while some hate it, so they'd rather watch others have fun while they eat their candy. Some people love the roller coasters, while some are just afraid of heights so they rather watch.

Like WoW, some people prefer to just do PvE and no PvP at all. While some people love the PvP but hate the PvE....and of course you have the folks that enjoy both. And some people enjoy leveling various alts while some just prefer raiding and getting new gears. I have a friend that used to raid (40 men, 25 men, 10 men), but after just a few of those raids (less than 3), he hates it....instead, he prefers the 5-men ones with just a few close friends. Hell, most of the time, he's questing with just a single friend.

As others have said, some guilds have one goal in mind: raid only, pvp, high-end contents, casuals, even forming a guild for twinks. You just have to decide what type of guild you fit in best. If the guild is not right for you, just move on till you find the right one.

Plenty of people don't get to see the end-game content and probably never will, but they still do enjoy the game. It may not be your definition of enjoyment, but it sure is their definition of having fun. I have an RL friend in a high-end raiding guild and he loves all the planning on how to kill bosses, figuring out the various strategies, getting on vent and planning all this out (think they're at Black Temple now)...he asked me to join, I just told him no thanks, not my cup of tea. But we still hang out in game and group up for smaller 5-men instances, which is just fine by me.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

And this is where you are seriously wrong. A guild does not have to be a big love fest where all the 70's run all the newbs through VC, WC, SM, Ulda, etc..etc...

It's not a wonder that you have not progressed through the game.

But that's okie. The rest of us will continue to experience all of the great end game stuff. You know, the stuff we pay for with the expansion. IMHO, you are wasting your money. It's like going to an amusement park, paying your $20 to get in... then just sitting there and watching everyone ride the rides.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well you're wrong, again.

I *am* progressing through the game, at a speed that suits me. I don't have 8 hours a day to play WoW, I have a full time job and other responsibilities - and games to play. Just because I'm not a level 70 'yet' does not mean I am any less valuable a player. I'll get there, eventually, and I'm having fun on the way with me and my sweetie questing together. I doubt if there's anything you can show or teach me that would be of benefit anyway, as it's more fun learning as I go along - dying, if necessary, rather than just being run through stuff without actually having much of a clue what's going on around me.

You're welcome to your opinion, but as far as I'm concerned, as long as *I* am getting sufficient enjoyment out of WoW, then I shall continue paying and playing. When it no longer becomes fun, then I shall quit - as most people do regardless of the game played.

Whilst level 70 is indeed the goal, it's just as important how you get there - by learning and experiencing stuff for yourself - and rushing it wouldn't give me what I consider value for money.

 

[Ferrous_Ironclaw]

right on!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

right on!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a lot of this boils down to a person's competitiveness. Some people thrive on PvP, others (like myself) hate it. Some want to be 'uber l33t' and have all the best gear and whatnot, others are just happy doing the best they can, and stuff what everyone else thinks or is doing.

It's good that WoW is big enough, and has sufficient variety and playstyles (RP, PvP, PvE etc) to accommodate pretty much everyone. That's probably a large part of its success.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

my guild (and many, many others ill wager) are based upon, and stand by, the helping of others. every single person in this game started off at level one, and at some point or another they needed help with something.

[/ QUOTE ]But what is helping someone?

I remember Uldaman. I havn't done it in well over a year, but I certainly remember it. How I hate that place. The mobs are tightly packed, doing the end boss is a pain in the rear of major proportions and it's like a maze in there. But at the end of day, I've experienced it. I completed the instance, several times, and I failed to complete it several times as well. But each of those times was playing the instance the way it was designed to be played.

The same could be extended to every single instance I've ever done. They've been done at the level they're intended to, with a party the level it was intended to.

If I were to ask a lvl 70 to join me in, say, Deadmines, what exactly am I getting? Not the dungeon experience, certainly. The same can be applied to a great many group quests, leading up the point where whatever it is isn't grey for lvl 70's.


In my personal opinion, a very, very large portion of the "help" people ask for while leveling is not about having someone help them do something they can't do on their own, but rather playing the game for them. Is a quest done with the help of a guy 20 levels above you really an experience you enjoyed? How is that kind of gameplay challenging?

 

[Guest]

Thank You. Someone else "gets it".

 

[Guest]

How negative we are, eh? When someone asks for help that is low-level, I get on one of my low-level alts and go play. Not everyone wants to have their hand held, some people just want to.. get this.. group and socialize! Wow, socializing and making friends in a game we play with OTHER PEOPLE!! What a concept!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I completed the instance, several times, and I failed to complete it several times as well. But each of those times was playing the instance the way it was designed to be played.

[/ QUOTE ]Is there really only "one way" to complete anything in WoW? I've spoken to different people about the same quest and been given plenty of different advice on 'how it should be done' - even Thottbot has loads of different people saying how they did the quest.

I often go questing with my rl partner, who is a couple of levels below me at present. I've just spent out for a mount so at the moment my main goal is gathering 'stuff' to sell to make up my cash reserves for getting a new weapon in a few levels time, whereas she needs the XP ... so we kill everything we can in whenever we get an opportunity and we both get what we need out of a quest, rather than just 'getting it over and done with'.

Places like Uldaman are, indeed, frustrating... but all part of what I pay my monthly fee for.

 

[Eldorian]

<blockquote><hr>

How negative we are, eh? When someone asks for help that is low-level, I get on one of my low-level alts and go play. Not everyone wants to have their hand held, some people just want to.. get this.. group and socialize! Wow, socializing and making friends in a game we play with OTHER PEOPLE!! What a concept!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not really seeing how what was said was negative in any way.

Blue Tear brings up some very good points on how some people play and there's really nothing wrong or negative about that kind of play style.

If I have a friend that needs help with a lower level instance I'll help them out every single time... if it's a random person or a guild member I probably don't know very well (especially the ones who like to spam for help ALL the time) then they'll 9 times out of 10 be ignored.

 

[Guest]

Did you even read what I wrote, or did you just want to disagree with me? LOL..

Blue Tear was saying that when someone asks for help, it's mostly people wanting to be "run through" instances by a 70. That simply is not true. SOME are, but not most.

 

[Ferrous_Ironclaw]

and one of my main points was the same people who no longer have time to help anyone else sure asked for a lot of it when they were leveling. THAT my friends, is horsecrap.

 

[Guest]

I'm not saying that grouping is a bad thing, or that socializing isn't an integral part of an MMORPG (Where in the game world my avatar happends to be at the moment is in no way as important to socializing as who am I speaking to on vent or the in-game voice function. There's no barrier that says "if we're not grouped, and you're not helping me level, we can't socialize"). But the whole "Only a selfish [censored] wouldn't dedicate part of his gametime to helping me level" is asinine.

A lvl 50 group quest is designed to be done with a lvl 50 group. Yes, it's truckloads easier if you convince a lvl 70 to tag along, and if you find one who's willing to do so, gratz - personally I think you're missing the experience of the quest, but hey, that's just me - but there's no inherent reason why he should take the time of whatever he actually logged on to do just to make it easier for you.

If I want to raid - that's the highest, most complex form of organized massive multiplayer gameplay this game has to offer - I need to be level 70. To do it, I need other people who are level 70. I have no problem helping mates, done it quite a bit over years I've played this game, but I'm not going to take crap over wanting to play the part of the game _I've_ reached rather than rehash the same ol' so you don't have to go through it the way it was designed to be done.

Karma or no karma, I play a massive multiplayer online game because I want cooperative gameplay to defeat a challenge. My most memorable moment in this game is when 40 people in my guild defeated the end boss of Blackwing Lair. 40 people, working togheter, learning and discussing tactics after each try to refine it until it died.

Not SoC spamming lvl 45 mobs for some guy who happends to wear the same guildtag and can't be arsed killing the mobs himself.

edit: Fixed an amusing spelling error.

 

[DJTyrant]

I understand there are different playstyles and all, but from my perspective I am a bit irritated when lower level characters ask for my help.

My time is better spent in-game farming/doing dailies so I can have gold for flasks/pots/food/repairs for raids.

I have little to no sympathy for people who think it's impossible (or too hard) to level from 1-70 on their own.

I did 1-60 nearly all by myself (minus PuGs for instances), same with 61-70 when TBC came out, again only groups for elite quests and instances.

You can't expect someone to drop what they're doing to go and help you out unfortunetly. They can spend their time elsewhere benefiting their character while helping you only really helps you (most of the time).

70 is really where the game starts though, and once you get there it's a whole different story and running instances and such should be much, much easier.

 

[Guest]

I guess its time to put my two cents in as well.

When I first started playing, my sister made me join a guild where most people were much higher levels. They rarely ever talked to us. Now I'm a chatty person, so if I'm on and there is a conversation going, I'm going to join it. Much of the time in that guild, I was completely ignored. There were no guild events, nothing built in to help others level or anything. We left that guild and started our own.

As we've leveled, our guild has grown. Now we're the higher levels and we often get low level people joining our guild. We always encourage people to chat and give quest advice, etc in the guild chat- its one of our ground rules. In fact, I'm likely to kick out someone if they don't ever respond to anyone in GC. I just booted someone the other day because of it- of course, it didn't help when we noticed he was on 24/7 and casting the same spell over and over again!

We get a lot of new guildies asking for help. More often than not, they are asking for one of us "70's" to run them thru an instance. It gets tiring. I have alts, and sometimes I am willing to get on an alt and go with them. But that's not what they want, they want a quick run thru so they can get whatever fat loot blue that dungeon offers their toon. We've made a rule that you can ask if anyone wants to go the the dungeon with you, but you should not continually ask for run thrus. We all have toons that we are trying to advance as well and most of us have limited time. Mind you, I have ran every single level 60 warlock in our guild at the time thru Scholo and dire maul to get them their mount and save them 250 odd gold.

In regard to Blue Tear's post, I agree with him. I'm making a warrior so that the guild has one for end game raids. Does it help me in the least if I have a lvl 70 running her thru instances? No. And that's the point, if a higher level is running people thru the instances, they aren't getting the raiding skills they need for later.

Bottom line- I'll help you out in my own time- not yours.

 

[Juliana]

omg...lol AJ...I have seen you post in TSO forums for years. Was always a lurker, never a poster. I am SO glad to see you are playing WoW. I've been playing for about a year &amp; a half. I LOVE IT!! Hope you are enjoying it. I still lurk in the other forums, looks like a mess over there &amp; I am so glad I have WoW now. Good Luck to you!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

omg...lol AJ...I have seen you post in TSO forums for years. Was always a lurker, never a poster. I am SO glad to see you are playing WoW. I've been playing for about a year &amp; a half. I LOVE IT!! Hope you are enjoying it. I still lurk in the other forums, looks like a mess over there &amp; I am so glad I have WoW now. Good Luck to you!

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah I'm here and in Second Life now, using up most of my spare time (and cash). TSO is about dead in the water, I'm only hanging around to watch the inevitable ship go down and the crap to hit the fan, the only surprise will be whether it'll be worse than I predicted, depends whether EA decide to handle it badly or really badly.

I have two chars at the moment in WoW, a level 47 dwarf hunter on Venknalish (or whatever its spelt) in the Stratics Guild, and a 47 Tauran warrior on Thorium Brotherhood in a guild that I think came from Off Topic - but haven't played him for a while.

I'm the bad penny of Stratics... I'm always turning up somewhere and they can't get rid of me.