12/30 Shard Meeting with Mesanna and EM Dudley

[EM Dudley]

On 12/30/2010 at 9pm ET Mesanna and myself fielded questions and comments from the Chesapeake community to answer some of the recent concerns.

Please remember that normal Hall of Commons rules are in effect which include no profanity, lewdness, or interrupting of any person who holds the floor.

We apologize for the short notice, but we want to address these issues promptly.

A gate will be available from the Luna Bank.

Thanks!

 

[Demonous]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

darn i won't be able to attend :/ hopefully something is achieved during this meeting

 

[EM Dudley]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

I imagine we will be there for some time, so perhaps you may be able to make the later part. Also, if you wish you can always send someone to speak for you, or drop a book in the mailbox if you'd like.

 

[Demonous]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

i dropped a book in the mail box at the house of commons in case i miss the whole thing tonight, thanks for the suggestion

 

[Lord Gareth]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

The issues are so blurred the only thing I can think of is ubber items. I would attend the meeting but

"I refuse to participate in the Salem Witch Trials Part II"

 

[Gowron]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

Wow, I saw enough complaining on "he said, she said" and crap that not even Dudley nor Mesanna can deal with, that even though I showed up late it just seemed like a mass pandamonia of some kind of cunjugal cluster.

 

[Jamlyn]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

The issues are so blurred the only thing I can think of is ubber items. I would attend the meeting but

"I refuse to participate in the Salem Witch Trials Part II"

Yes I attended and that is mainly what it was.

Why the hell do I find myself agreeing with you all the time now Gareth?

Anyways I was able to speak up and defend what Dudley has done and I stick by my remarks. Were lucky to have what we do. It can be so easily taken away so enjoy it.

 

[Clair The Mystic]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

Yes I attended and that is mainly what it was.

Why the hell do I find myself agreeing with you all the time now Gareth?

Anyways I was able to speak up and defend what Dudley has done and I stick by my remarks. Were lucky to have what we do. It can be so easily taken away so enjoy it.

You were there, but apparently you did not listen.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

You were there, but apparently you did not listen.

That seemed to be the general problem. I think what it boils down to is people hearing the issues, but not listening to them. I am glad Mesanna was there and allowed people to speak their minds.

I think many of the EMs could benefit from spending a bit of time on other shards and seeing how things work there, perhaps they could pick up on what works and personalize it for their own.

 

[Lord Gareth]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

Why the hell do I find myself agreeing with you all the time now Gareth?

*Shrugs* Perhaps I was not completely clear on my comment...LoL. I believe many of the players had valid points and I am sure it was a great discussion. However if I had to guess there was the group of Kiss butts and then there was the group of those who were made to look like a donkeys ars for speaking up.

That is what I meant by Salem Witch Trials II

 

[G.v.P]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

There's a lack of communication between EM Dudley and the Chesapeake community, which prompted Mesanna to address us. If there wasn't some sort of a problem then Mesanna wouldn't have wasted her time. Was the problem solved? Hard to say.

I left the meeting after an hour and a half of back and forth talk. I'm really not sure how long it lasted thereafter, but I really didn't see any progress. From what I gathered, EM Dudley wants to stay on Chesapeake and Mesanna is very forgiving when it comes to mistakes. In other words, nothing will probably change.

Whether you want change or not is probably dependent on how many EMs you've experienced, your interaction with those EMs, and how much you care about EM events. For example, I set my schedule around events by EM Faine Morgan. When I met her at the Fairfax meet-up, she greeted me with a hug after immediately identifying my character and an event I won on Origin. Now, if EM Dudley hugged me when we met at that meet-up, I may have been thinking, "Huh?" haha so I'm not saying I wanted a man hug from EM Dudley ... I'm just saying, for me, Origin EM events set the bar.

I really don't have any experience talking with EM Dudley, outside of that Fairfax meet-up. However, I am concerned when I hear about how he threatened TKO, and how he handled the language filter during the recent essay situation. Even so, if I were in the position of the RP guilds, I would take the free stable compromise and move on. Sounds like a good deal to me. As for item concerns, and Mesanna talking about how the EM events are about the experience and not the items, well, not much to cheer about, there.

Oh, Mesanna. We're talking about the same Mesanna who created over 30 rares on Catskills for no real reason at all ... her birthday, was it? Some sort of birthday? Just double-talk, really. Most of the items were taken off Catskills to be sold by cross sharders. Mesanna has to either be against rares or for them, yet she goes back and forth like the wind. One day she'll say it's about the experience, the other she'll give everyone black pumpkins. Confusing, really.

Anyway, for myself, I like both the experience and the items, and Origin is tops in both categories. That's not to say I didn't love the underwater dungeon designed on Ches (despite the dragon deletion), or some of the events on Ches over the years, just that Origin is much more consistent for my desires.

 

[QueenZen]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

Were lucky to have what we do. It can be so easily taken away so enjoy it.

I have no right HERE to say anything, nor do I even know the EMs here.

I can say this much though, there is one shard that is dying, and been dying for past few years just to even HAVE an EM or EM held events on their shard and no matter whom trys to be an EM there albeit rarely, they go away.

It is a harder shard to fathom, but it's EA customers deserve the same attentions and events and lively whatevers EMs do hold, and they never get any at all. For Siege Perilous having nothing ever going on EM wise, is sad for every one there, as if they do not even exist as paying EA customers, yet they do exist and pay just like every other customer on every other shard.

Perhaps one should be thankful that there are not one, but two EMs here ? Right there are 2 of EMs here on Chesapeake ?

Items and things and pixel crack aside if or when those may be given out, having an EM or two on any shard equals events will be happening, [adding life to all shards] for those whom may be interested in attending EM events and happenings.

There are others whom about weep to even be fortunate to get the attention once a yr. if ever, and never get any attentions or EMs nor their events at all ...... ever !

Be thankful for what ya DO have and DO get and may ye never loose what ya DO have ! Some players on some shard^s, just as deserving, get nothing, ever, at all.

My apologies for speaking out as a member of THIS shard since 98, and as also a member of Siege Perilous since 2004, ya do not know what ya have till ya never even ..........get it at all ! But ya know you are being left out, like dirt, when others have not one but two EMs active on their shard making events fun for some folks while another shard lanquishes in being left out and ignored entirely of EM run events of any sort over yrs. of time. Again my apologies, but my heart bleeds for those left out they hurt and get nothing.

BE thankful for whom and what ya DO have here on Chesapeake regarding EMs and EM run events, trust me on this !

 

[PASmountaindew]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

Well here is my opinion even though I don't play on Chessy shard... If it were up to me I would tell the EMs to never have ANY items drop during the events on this shard. I am not just the Moderator for this shards EM forum I am the Moderator for ALL the shards EM forums and I read posts in all of them every day. I have come to see that the majority of the people that complain about not getting any of the rare items that drop are the same ones that complain about the people that do get the items and then turn around and off shard sell them. When in reality those that complain about not getting the items are also known for selling those items when they do get them even if it is a rare occurrence. All those issues could be solved by not having any items drop and making the events all about role playing and the experience and not about who got what and what they may or may not sell it for either on or off shard. Why can't people just play a game to play and not have to worry about making a fortune in it? I have noticed that on some shards the EMs are way more involved in the RP aspect and the townships and setting up moongate hubs to get to these player run and established towns and then there are some shards where you may have an EM assigned but never hear from them. I play on Sonoma shard where I believe we have two EMs and there are occasional events but we don't have everything that some other shards have. As I have said before... Be constructive and instead of attacking your EMs try just talking to them and offer some suggestions and ideas but please be patient while they work out the logistics of possibly implementing those ideas or the time to explain why they can't. EMs are not all powerful and can not just do whatever they want when they want. They have to get approval first.

 

[Jordy]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

I completely agree with you....if they took all items out across all of the shards. I know that people are trying to twist this into ONLY an issue about getting pixel crack, but for the vast majority of those who were speaking out last night, that is not the case. It is about equal treatment from shard to shard. If no shard gets anything, it's fair. If all shards get the same number of items distributed, it's fair. However, neither has been the case. And, Mesanna told us last night that she gave the EM's the option to choose how many Christmas gifts that they wanted to distribute. All of the other shards I visited got 4 gifts and the EM's visited several times. Chessy got only 2 gifts, and they were available for 8 minutes. This was Dudely's choice, according to Mesanna.

It's not that people (not all anyway, I know there are some grubbers out there) are screaming to get more, we just want the same as other shards get. And no, I do NOT want to change shards. I love Chessy, I love our community, I love the guild that I am a part of and I've been on this shard since I made my first toon back in 2001.

 

[Tancred RedStar]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

All I'm seeing is people being fixated on one or two things, namely 1) the number of multi-million gold items Dudley drops either plenty fine or "everyone but me" syndrome, and 2) a communication issue of some scale.

On the first, not even going to bother going there anymore, either ya show up to the free movie pre-screening and get in line in time while there are enough seats or ya don't. There will always be more movies in any case.

On the second, the EM's own more mailboxes than anyone I know, have weekly meeting with the players and even respond usually within hours here. Usually the only people who give me that much love are my wife and bill collectors.

I think overall people seemed to be focusing on the negative 10% and all but ignoring the good 90%. It's never going to be "perfect" but surely there's always room for improvement in any situation. Let's quit wasting time comparing to other shards because we are not them and they are not us, we are us and we have a unique and long-running community which we should enjoy and treasure instead of nit-picking and making mountains out of mole hills.

 

[EM Dudley]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

*fires up the hug machine*

 

[TheMac]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

*fires up the hug machine*

lol

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

Well here is my opinion even though I don't play on Chessy shard... If it were up to me I would tell the EMs to never have ANY items drop during the events on this shard. I am not just the Moderator for this shards EM forum I am the Moderator for ALL the shards EM forums and I read posts in all of them every day. I have come to see that the majority of the people that complain about not getting any of the rare items that drop are the same ones that complain about the people that do get the items and then turn around and off shard sell them. When in reality those that complain about not getting the items are also known for selling those items when they do get them even if it is a rare occurrence. All those issues could be solved by not having any items drop and making the events all about role playing and the experience and not about who got what and what they may or may not sell it for either on or off shard. Why can't people just play a game to play and not have to worry about making a fortune in it? I have noticed that on some shards the EMs are way more involved in the RP aspect and the townships and setting up moongate hubs to get to these player run and established towns and then there are some shards where you may have an EM assigned but never hear from them. I play on Sonoma shard where I believe we have two EMs and there are occasional events but we don't have everything that some other shards have. As I have said before... Be constructive and instead of attacking your EMs try just talking to them and offer some suggestions and ideas but please be patient while they work out the logistics of possibly implementing those ideas or the time to explain why they can't. EMs are not all powerful and can not just do whatever they want when they want. They have to get approval first.

I would suggest you reread my posts and those of others that mention items being low on the list. People care more about a POSITIVE experience than they do about anything else. If you only go by what you read, you are missing out on a lot...and really have no room to make judgment calls based on such.

I like the fact that the EMs put time in with the natives, perhaps for those who are actually a part of the town hubs and whatnot the EMs are great. For the rest of us who don't get into that...and play the remainder of the events, it seems that often times we get left behind. That is UNLESS our concerns are considered.

As far as your idea of they are not all powerful, we know this...they are players too! However, when (as I stated before...and others had had you actually attended the meeting) the voices of people are ignored for over a years time on things that are already implemented...those people get upset and we end up having meetings like those of the other eve. You cannot ignore those that support you...period.

Again, if you go by just what you read...you really don't know squat.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

All I'm seeing is people being fixated on one or two things, namely 1) the number of multi-million gold items Dudley drops either plenty fine or "everyone but me" syndrome, and 2) a communication issue of some scale.

Communication is not a low on the totem pole issue. When people get left behind, ignored, and then chastised for speaking up when they feel an issue arises...those unattended issues grow.

On the first, not even going to bother going there anymore, either ya show up to the free movie pre-screening and get in line in time while there are enough seats or ya don't. There will always be more movies in any case.

The items are not the issue...not being able to participate however is. If you lost connection while attending events and lost place, wouldn't you feel peturbed if those EMs did nothing when you asked for help in the appropriate channel? It only takes a few seconds to reply to a player...and even less time is needed for that EM to literally pick you up and take you to the action. However, when those players sit there asking for assistance and non comes...time and time again...eventually those players will become agitated with the situation. Communication is key, without that...you alienate a lot of people.

On the second, the EM's own more mailboxes than anyone I know, have weekly meeting with the players and even respond usually within hours here. Usually the only people who give me that much love are my wife and bill collectors.

Welp, that may be the case...but there is nothing like going to the meetings with the hope of being heard only to have your concerns not only be interrupted, but fall onto deaf ears. What good is a mailbox if the mail is not opened?

I think overall people seemed to be focusing on the negative 10% and all but ignoring the good 90%. It's never going to be "perfect" but surely there's always room for improvement in any situation. Let's quit wasting time comparing to other shards because we are not them and they are not us, we are us and we have a unique and long-running community which we should enjoy and treasure instead of nit-picking and making mountains out of mole hills.

Isn't that how the world works? It is the negative aspects that end up getting the attention because those ultimately leave a larger impression. Now, as far as Chessy EMs are concerned...I have seen some nice events...many actually. However, when these are overshadowed by negative incidents that are ongoing...people will tend to recall the negative...after all that IS human nature.

So all in all, seems only fitting that in order to please the masses one must be willing to compromise. Without that, those negative things will continue to outshine whatever positives are done. Want to fix that? Work on ways to alleviate the negative, so those positive elements shine as they should.

My two cents.

 

[Tancred RedStar]

I wasnt at the meeting so I don't know what transpired or was said as no one has yet posted a transcript or journal log.

Nevertheless, there's a distinction between 1) people thinking their argument is falling on deaf ears and 2) not getting what they want. A distinction not everyone seems able to brook, which is also undoubtedly a part of human nature as well.

 

[EM Dudley]

Just to clarify teleporting lost players to our location during an event is not permitted. As a general rule we do not move players unless it is an absolute necessity...ie they get stuck or something goes drastically wrong. That being said we are looking at ways to help those that get lost and welcome suggestions.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I wasnt at the meeting so I don't know what transpired or was said as no one has yet posted a transcript or journal log.

Nevertheless, there's a distinction between 1) people thinking their argument is falling on deaf ears and 2) not getting what they want. A distinction not everyone seems able to brook, which is also undoubtedly a part of human nature as well.

If an ongoing issue does not get resolved and attempts to bring up that incident to alleviate it are ignored, I would hardly call that not getting what someone wants. I was not alone with this *opinion*...many others experienced similar incident and expressed the opinion as well.

Open communication should never be on someones *want* list. Never.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Just to clarify teleporting lost players to our location during an event is not permitted. As a general rule we do not move players unless it is an absolute necessity...ie they get stuck or something goes drastically wrong. That being said we are looking at ways to help those that get lost and welcome suggestions.

Not permitted? I have seen it done on numerous occasion, on several shards by numerous EMs. I have even *seen* (been in vent when you teled others in) YOU do it as well. Second, you don't always need to actively take a person to that location either...some simple direction goes a long long way.

Often times there is spawn that can teleport a person to outside locations due to bugs, such as the Navrey template...if you are saying support in those situation is not permitted...I am genuinely baffled as to why those types of spawn templates are even allowed.

 

[EM Dudley]

I didn't say that it's never been done, if someone gets physically stuck because of an event design mechanic or there is a reason we need to pull players back do to an event going haywire then it is warranted. We will also use this during certain fel or fair events where its a one at a time sort of thing.

We are more than open to suggestions on how to help players that get lost. Teleporting them to our location, however, is not an option. We can put up midway gates, but again is it fair to those that that spend an hour completing and participating in an event just to have someone hop on and claim the reward, should there be one, at the end?

As far as offering chat channel assistance we will to a degree. Some people have a tendancy to yell for assistance at the first encounter of a puzzle that doesn't allow for instant continuation during an event. Simply providing the answer ruins the puzzle for those that enjoy doing them and defeats the purpose of the event.

All that being said we can only promise to improve based on the feedback we have received and encourage everyone to enjoy our 2011 events.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Well, I will let the past be the past and see how thing work out then into the new year.

 

[Clair The Mystic]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

Well here is my opinion even though I don't play on Chessy shard... If it were up to me I would tell the EMs to never have ANY items drop during the events on this shard.

Maybe I have not explained clearly enough. At least for me, the issues that are at the root of the problems have had nothing to do with items. The items are just a physical manifestation of the unfair treatment that is never addressed when pointed out. Some of the best people I know play Chessy. We understand that the world is not fair, but we should all try to be fair people. Having injustices left unaddressed caused this problem. I am cautiously hopeful that that will no longer be the case. Adding another injustice to the list is not going to make things better, just much worse.

 

[Sean]

I can see the point in not pulling folks, are you left behind when your still in Luna and 15-30 minutes late? I think not there, but leaving folks behind, because they are fighting an event spawn, isn't right.

The group should only move on when the spawned opponents are defeated and all are ready to go, or clearly state, "stop fighting, time to move forward".

That's from one person's complaint last night.

Clearly stating the events intent beforehand, as was pointed out by Enterprise last night, is another good form of communication. If it's RP orientated event, state so, If it caters to more PVP or PVM or even crafting, well , then give that info out.

If a group, such as TKO, feels they have been mishandled, well then hold a private meeting with them and hash it out. Explaining your stance doesn't mean changing to a different point of view, just making sure you;ve explained your reasoning. Then at least one has made a solid effort to communicate.

As far as items, my take on them would be, make them so they go "poof" if taken to a different shard (not sure how possible that is). That should put satisfy those of us that despise that part of the rares game. I have no problem with rares collectors, but keep the history on the shard it was born.

There was no way anything could be settled last night, except the notion that better communication is needed both ways. Something we should all strive to do.

 

[Gowron]

I believe it is prudent to post a summary of the meeting as well as the proposed "way ahead" before any further discussions continue.

EM Dudley and EM Drosselmeyer, the floor is yours. I, for one, am waiting with keen interest on how much was discussed and what will be done to correct wrongs, clarify misperceptions, and/or implement improvements.

This is a New Year, and I am willing to wipe the slate clean, but for a meeting to go on for more than 3 hours, I am quite interested to see what came of it. I would be quite disappointed if what I saw for 20 minutes was indicative of the entire meeting.

 

[PASmountaindew]

I would love to see a lot of the feature of UO Auto Map integrated into the EC client map where as if you are on a guilded characters you can see all your other guild and alliance mates on the map and this way then maybe the EMs can set up some way to track their ingame character during events so if someone gets lost they can just look at the map and find the EM name or the large mass of people at the event and just find their own way to the group.

 

[Pooper]

I didn't say that it's never been done, if someone gets physically stuck because of an event design mechanic or there is a reason we need to pull players back do to an event going haywire then it is warranted. We will also use this during certain fel or fair events where its a one at a time sort of thing.

We are more than open to suggestions on how to help players that get lost. Teleporting them to our location, however, is not an option. We can put up midway gates, but again is it fair to those that that spend an hour completing and participating in an event just to have someone hop on and claim the reward, should there be one, at the end?

As far as offering chat channel assistance we will to a degree. Some people have a tendancy to yell for assistance at the first encounter of a puzzle that doesn't allow for instant continuation during an event. Simply providing the answer ruins the puzzle for those that enjoy doing them and defeats the purpose of the event.

All that being said we can only promise to improve based on the feedback we have received and encourage everyone to enjoy our 2011 events.

I have to say that teh chat channel is a great idea! There have been many o times I have logged in and there was an event that I didn't know about going on. This makes it easy for me to shout out and get caught up with the group.

 

[Pooper]

Re: Shard Meeting TONIGHT with EM Dudley & Mesanna @ 9pm ET in the Luna Fair Blaze Te

I completely agree with you....if they took all items out across all of the shards. I know that people are trying to twist this into ONLY an issue about getting pixel crack, but for the vast majority of those who were speaking out last night, that is not the case. It is about equal treatment from shard to shard. If no shard gets anything, it's fair. If all shards get the same number of items distributed, it's fair. However, neither has been the case. And, Mesanna told us last night that she gave the EM's the option to choose how many Christmas gifts that they wanted to distribute. All of the other shards I visited got 4 gifts and the EM's visited several times. Chessy got only 2 gifts, and they were available for 8 minutes. This was Dudely's choice, according to Mesanna.

It's not that people (not all anyway, I know there are some grubbers out there) are screaming to get more, we just want the same as other shards get. And no, I do NOT want to change shards. I love Chessy, I love our community, I love the guild that I am a part of and I've been on this shard since I made my first toon back in 2001.

Just want to put in a twist to this train of thought. Everyone says they want the same number of drops as every other shard to be considered "equal". But is it really "equal" if you take a shard that has many players (lets say 1,000 for argument's sake) and drop 4 gifts, and then go to a shard like oh Balhae in which you'd be lucky to see 4 players on at the same time and still drop 4 gifts? On the shard with many, like Atlantic, you have a 4:1,000 ratio of getting a drop and on Balhae, well you're pretty much guaranteed a drop. Ratio wise, it's not equal. I do realize that to keep the ratio equal they'd have to take gifts from the players on Balhae LOL, but nontheless, just a thought. Nothing like saying Merry Christmas with a robbing Santa Claus!