Heartwood Scripters???????????

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Ok Kyrie, I'm just as against scripters as you or anyone else is, but if you can spend 4 hrs straight doing quests without cheating, isn't it possible that someone else can too? I haven't read the entire thread, so if you've returned after many hours and they're still there, then I would be suspicious. But if they've been at it the whole time you've been at it....well....

I've seen other people there working their skills, and they were doing the same thing as me. Show up with my packies, train until I'm out of wood, then go and get more wood and start all over.

This person just stays there hidden, constantly toiling away. Plus you can tell that it's running in a sequence of events that can be timed, and seem to never stop (as if they are running a script.) They have been there every time I have gone there this week.

But then again, someone else's scripting doesn't affect ME at all right, because I'm only a player and I am NOT affected by the in game economy right? (This comment is not directed to you Garth, it's directed to all the other people that have posted that feel that scripters don't personally affect players in the game. Unfortunately, scripters affect EVERY player in the game, and if you don't care about scripting then why even bother to post here? It's obvious that they are just looking for a place to get a added to their stats.

I take scripting and hacking very personally because it does affect my game play, as it does the rest of the people that post here. If you think it doesn't, then you are ignorant to the negative impacts it has on the game.

:gun:

 

[Rix/\]

Perhaps they aren't scripting, but I can tell you I saw no pack animals around and this person was there hidden for hours. In the last week I have been there 3 different nights for about four hours each night and that person has been there. No pack animals around, and you can time the completed sounds, and the messages that spam from the trash can.

After playing this game since it's inception, I can pretty well tell when someone is doing something that is illegal (which doesn't mean I have to be a scripter or a hack to know this stuff.)

Maybe someone on Pacific would like to go look themselves and give their feedback as to whether or not it is a scripter. I'm sure that person is there right now, hidden, constantly dinging the quest, and dropping the loot bags in the trash can (I'm at work or I'd go check myself.)

wait your telling me your hearing crafting sounds of a hidden player? You used detect hidden in heartwood to make sure you wasn't hearing possibly buged sound effects? not that there would be any BUGS in UO.


I'm not saying your wrong maybe you truely believe there is a hidden scripter in heartwood. I just want to make sure I'm understanding this because if this is how your gonna present this to a GM they might be alil annoyed if there wasn't someone there.

And if you waste a GM's time with assuming there is then your also wasting my time and money when I pay for a service they provide and you are making them unavailable to answer legit problems. This is where I have the problem. See where I'm coming from?

There are alot of issues in the game that has gone on for a long time I'm sure they are well aware of these and have a nice long list and seems like as they work their way down this list while fixing one issue they create a new while at the same time try to keep up the game so players don't just get frustrated with old buggy content with new buggy content .

 

[D'Amavir]

Hmm, how are you so familiar with scripts?

I make it a point to be familiar with many things. Don't you? Or, do you not know what scripts are? I can explain them if you would like, but this thread isn't the place for that. Or, you can just go online and use a search engine to find out about them. You do know what a search engine is correct?

 

[D'Amavir]

I've seen other people there working their skills, and they were doing the same thing as me. Show up with my packies, train until I'm out of wood, then go and get more wood and start all over.

This person just stays there hidden, constantly toiling away. Plus you can tell that it's running in a sequence of events that can be timed, and seem to never stop (as if they are running a script.) They have been there every time I have gone there this week.

But then again, someone else's scripting doesn't affect ME at all right, because I'm only a player and I am NOT affected by the in game economy right? (This comment is not directed to you Garth, it's directed to all the other people that have posted that feel that scripters don't personally affect players in the game. Unfortunately, scripters affect EVERY player in the game, and if you don't care about scripting then why even bother to post here? It's obvious that they are just looking for a place to get a added to their stats.

I take scripting and hacking very personally because it does affect my game play, as it does the rest of the people that post here. If you think it doesn't, then you are ignorant to the negative impacts it has on the game.

:gun:

So you not only tracked down this imaginary player and learned that they are selling anything they get from their quests but you also have enough time to sit around Heartwood with a stopwatch timing the sounds you hear? Wow, quite the detective you are. Good for you. Keep posting your amazing detective exploits for all of us to enjoy,please. After all it gives you and that's all it is about for you, correct?

 

[Rix/\]

LOL, Sonoma 24/7. All 4: brand new chars, zero skills.

Ya, this is Legit! (my ass it is)

The neat thing about the bowyer quest is the with items they request your able to lvl a fletcher up while at the sametime work towards getting runic kits. This is how I trained my fletcher last month after my return to the game. No script, just the one feature I loved about KR. For some players those hidden crafters can be a good thing with lag issues while trying to make your way around heartwood. There have been many times I lagged out at the release of ML with 20 fletchers down there.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Are you implying that they are somehow getting around the need for resources in those quests? I don't know of any script that lets you do that. Not in a way that would let you run the same quest over and over for hours as you say without the need of a pack horse or beetle to carry resources in. If something like that is happening, it needs to be investigated. Too bad the GM queues are too full of people reporting people for bogus reasons for the gm's to have time to look into it though.

I never hide my pack animals, but it used to be that you when you hid them they would re-appear after the spell wore off. Assuming that this hasn't changed, this person has been working non-stop with no pack animals around. That was another reason I found it very odd.

dunno

 

[D'Amavir]

I never hide my pack animals, but it used to be that you when you hid them they would re-appear after the spell wore off. Assuming that this hasn't changed, this person has been working non-stop with no pack animals around. That was another reason I found it very odd.

dunno

Like I said, if they are somehow able to get around the need for resources to complete quests in Heartwood, they are doing much more than scripting. If that is the case, they should definitely be looked into. Scripting in itself doesn't allow you to avoid resource requirements. There are bugs that pop up that enable you to do so but its not the result of just a script.

My point is, and has always been, that if GM's weren't flooded with calls from people complaining about someone they THINK is unattended they would have more time to answer calls about things like this.

 

[UOKaiser]

Perhaps they aren't scripting, but I can tell you I saw no pack animals around and this person was there hidden for hours. In the last week I have been there 3 different nights for about four hours each night and that person has been there. No pack animals around, and you can time the completed sounds, and the messages that spam from the trash can.

After playing this game since it's inception, I can pretty well tell when someone is doing something that is illegal (which doesn't mean I have to be a scripter or a hack to know this stuff.)

Maybe someone on Pacific would like to go look themselves and give their feedback as to whether or not it is a scripter. I'm sure that person is there right now, hidden, constantly dinging the quest, and dropping the loot bags in the trash can (I'm at work or I'd go check myself.)

I have to know how can anybody stay there in heartwood doing quest without leaving with no resources and still crafting for 4 hours. Did you do detect hidden? Are you sure pacific trash can and sound is not buged over there or you're client?
On another note scripters impacting the economy part. In which wy do they impact the econmy am talking about scripters not dupers, exploiters just scripters? Do they raise the price or do they lower the price on everything. Do they make things easier to get for the regular player or do they make things harder to get for the regular players am just curious on you'e point of view in this? We all know dupers impact to the econmy they make everything worthless but it benefits the regular player being able to afford everything and able to balance there character to compete but destroy merchants reason i hate hate dupers!! But in which way do scripters make the impact in you're point of view?

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Like I said, if they are somehow able to get around the need for resources to complete quests in Heartwood, they are doing much more than scripting. If that is the case, they should definitely be looked into. Scripting in itself doesn't allow you to avoid resource requirements. There are bugs that pop up that enable you to do so but its not the result of just a script.

My point is, and has always been, that if GM's weren't flooded with calls from people complaining about someone they THINK is unattended they would have more time to answer calls about things like this.

If you don't have a char on Pacific, you should make one and go see what I am talking about. I am sure they will still be there when I go there tonight. I have been there three nights this week and they were there every time.

I would honestly like to get someone else to go look and see what they think.

At first I actually did think that it could just be a noise bug, but then I noticed the dings from the quest followed by the messages coming from the trash can. It all became too coincidental.

 

[D'Amavir]

If you don't have a char on Pacific, you should make one and go see what I am talking about. I am sure they will still be there when I go there tonight. I have been there three nights this week and they were there every time.

I would honestly like to get someone else to go look and see what they think.

At first I actually did think that it could just be a noise bug, but then I noticed the dings from the quest followed by the messages coming from the trash can. It all became too coincidental.

I just made a character on Pac. I went to the fletcher quest spot and stood by the trashcan. Nothing went into it in the 10 minutes that I watched it and I didn't hear any crafter noises. So much for 23/7 and statistical sampling. Would you like to meet me there so you can show me what I am missing? I have time if you do. I want to see what's really going on.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

I just made a character on Pac. I went to the fletcher quest spot and stood by the trashcan. Nothing went into it in the 10 minutes that I watched it and I didn't hear any crafter noises. So much for 23/7 and statistical sampling. Would you like to meet me there so you can show me what I am missing? I have time if you do. I want to see what's really going on.

I will be on tonight at around 6 p.m. Pacific time (at work now). I will check and see if they are there and post back.

Just logged in (7:25 Pacific) and checked Heartwood. Nobody there.

Maybe they read this thread and it scared em.

 

[Calla Lily]

People shouldn't have to run in fear that they're going to be paged on simply because they don't acknowledge someone talking to them. When you have a lot of gumps up on the screen and you're busy doing something, it IS hard to see someone speaking to you, especially if they've only said a few words. And if you do see them, you have to move or drop your gumps just to answer their question, which can be a pain.

MOST of the time, I'm more than happy to answer questions or help people who speak to me. If I'm really busy though, I might not be in the mood to strike up long conversations because it interferes with me using my gumps or I lose track of what I'm doing. It's nothing personal. I try my best to be available to other players if I'm out and about in public places, but if I'm in a blue mood or just feeling unsocial, I hide at home.

Yes, absolutely, scripters (and all cheaters) should be called on! I just find it hard to know if someone's scripting or just busy and not wanting to interact.

And something I'm confused about: Wouldn't a scripter have to occasionally go to the bank for more resources, so you'd see them moving?

 

[Rix/\]

After reading a dozen threads basically about the same topic the I feel is I think people don't understand the difference between macros and scripting. For anyone who doesn't have knowledge of either could mistake the one for the other. This is where the lack of info about the game comes in. If there was more info about macroing to help players understand what it is how it's done they'll be able to tell the difference. You can sit here and claim to understand but by reading these post some of you sound confused.

 

[The Home Guild]

Hmm, how are you so familiar with scripts?

LEE his point was.. how can one be hidden for hours doing quests with no packies as she implied? where is the resources/wood to make these items for the quests.. so it;'s not bout him KNOWING how scripts work.

 

[D'Amavir]

Yes, absolutely, scripters (and all cheaters) should be called on! I just find it hard to know if someone's scripting or just busy and not wanting to interact.

While I agree with you in theory, an old saying comes to mind that really fits into what people have been trying to say on this subject before they get shouted down and accused of killing puppies and other nonsense.

"You have to pick your battles"

Yes, technically people that script things like skill gain to relieve the tedium of those tasks ARE cheating. That is not in question. But, is that really a battle thats worth fighting? Take the real world examples people seem to always use on these threads. Going 1 mile over the speedlimit is technically illegal. Cops have the right to ticket anyone doing so. And people have the right to report anyone doing so. But, is going after those people and taking the time to deal with them really worth the time it takes when that time can be better spent dealing with people that are really doing things that should be addressed?

On that same example, does a person going 1 mile over the speed limit mean that tomorrow they will be going 10 miles over? And the next day they will be drunk driving? Then the next day they will be stealing cars? And a few days later they have moved on to vehicular murder as seen in Death Proof? No. Some will certainly, but to even imagine that everyone that breaks the law in that minor way will always move to the most serious infractions is silly.

No one is claiming that the major and impacting breaches (duping, speedhacking) aren't bad or that they should be allowed. Anyone that did claim that would see me pop up to give my views on that opinion. But, do you really want to spend your game time on and let your enjoyment of the game be decreased because of people doing the little things that you don't approve of?

Pick your battles.

 

[D'Amavir]

LEE his point was.. how can one be hidden for hours doing quests with no packies as she implied? where is the resources/wood to make these items for the quests.. so it;'s not bout him KNOWING how scripts work.

Very true. I don't know any script that allows you to avoid resource requirements. There are some that allow you to avoid skill delays, those are considered to be taking advantages of existing bugs and can be accomplished without the use of a script by anyone following the steps to duplicate the bug. Those bugs should 100% be fixed. The same for any bug that exists currently to allow people to avoid resource requirements. A script can take advantage of that bug, but the script itself is not the cause of that bug.

And yes, I freely admit that I know a lot about scripts and scripting. I read websites dedicated to them. And I learn about tools that allow them. Why? For those out there that want to see the bad in everything you can say its so I can game the system. For those that want the truth, its so I can be educated about the things I speak of on boards like this.

Do I think that the game encourages the use of scripts and that changing some of the things that drive people to scripting would help everyone? Yes, absolutely. Do I run resource scripts, hoard those resources and then sell them either for real money or game gold and by doing so damage the economy of the game? No, absolutely not.

 

[The Home Guild]

I really don't care what people do as long as it doesn't get in the middle of my game play.

Someone scripting heartwoods..why would that bother me? i'm off in my own UO land working skills/selling homes and sitting my butt at bank.I think people need to quit worrying about others and play the game.

 

[Gheed]

One thing people should keep in mind is that I'd say the majority of people (at least the majority of the ones I talked to) are using KR to do the quests in Heartwood because of how much easier they are with that client. For the bowyer quests, it's common to have open on screen your own backpack, the crafting gump, your beetle's pack, a quiver with bolts in it for the Lethal Darts quest, the trash can, the quest gump, and a container used to put recipes and/or talismans into. With all of this open, there is a VERY small area that is clear to actually see what's around you. Because of this, it's extremely hard to see that anyone is talking to you. Taking this into account, this is a very good reason why a lot of people don't answer you. They simply didn't notice that you were talking, if they even noticed you were there.

So illegal third party scripting is bad but EA implements a new ui that does basically the same thing and that's ok. Some would even champion this new legal scripting interface. Per a recent town hall there will be no more "stupid" crafting quests but we did build a system into the ui that allows for you to complete our tedious not fun process to potentially make millions off otherwise worthless items. Which kind of says they will be making more of these quests...why would you build this tool into the ui if you weren't? Damn RNG...just keep dumping coins in the machine and pull the reel. Devs are so busy playing the scripting Whack-A-Mole game that many aspects of this game no longer has any sense of itself. Area harvesting macros in KR? Isn't that scripting? Oh ya that's ok too. Cause EA said it was. But what if hey said all scripting was legal as long as you were attended? What a lynch mob we would have then.

I know the major scripting software syntax. It is powerful. There isn't any breed of logic that can not be automated. You can even plug in a sms sub routine and hold a conversation with a GM from you cell phone. I do not use this knowledge to play my game for me:

1.) I do not sell gold or anything else
2.) I want to play UO! I don't like watching my pc play UO... I'm jealous!
3.) I play to have fun and if it isn't fun I don't do it.
4.) I have my own town (castle with two max secure plots behind it), a prime Luna vendor shop, and all the scrolled out awesome geared characters in all the templates I have enjoyed playing. I have done it legitimately through the same standard game play everyone else is allowed. I will not risk any of it to get gold or items I don't really need. I have my addictive power gaming play style to get these things for me.

I have preached for years that the only way to stop scripting of resources or quests like these would be to remove the reason to script. The EA solution? Randomized resources? Heartwood quests? Community Collections with raw resources being the collected item?

Level the playing field between those that script and those that do not. Analyze how folks script and change game mechanics to favor the attended:

Million stone limit bank boxes
floating no recall zones that hover over banker NPCs
containers not automatically appearing on house steps
"Heat of battle" recall restrictions on beetles and packies
Increased storage on pack animals
Fatigue formulas on recall and all recall like spells
Add low-mid armor and weapons and other various trinkets dropped from PvM to collections quests. Make their point value based on intensity of attributes and make it comparable to frostwood points.

These ideas are dated. A long time ago I decided to stop getting frustrated over this stuff. I have managed to achieve quite a bit possession wise without worrying about what other folks are doing. I say now to let them script and stop wasting resources they don't have to fix a problem that can't be solved. Or better yet keep enhancing the new UI to allow for more EA sanctioned scripting and soon all the righteous will be vindicated.

 

[Kiminality]

If you're hidden, and mount a beetle, then it hides with you.

If you do the quest for bolts, you have to turn in 1 stone worth of bolts.
Say you carry 200 stones worth of bolts. 1600 in the beetle.
Optimistically, 10 seconds to get the right quest, mark as quest item, and confirm.
That's a little over 30 minutes of turning in quests without having to reveal to restock, or anything. Over four hours for everything.

Also, I don't like to people who run up to see if I'm attended.
If they wanted to actually talk, then I mightn't be opposed.
I object to having to prove my innocence to a complete stranger, who doesn't carry any authority, or care for anything but the chance I might be cheating.

 

[The Home Guild]

If you're hidden, and mount a beetle, then it hides with you.

If you do the quest for bolts, you have to turn in 1 stone worth of bolts.
Say you carry 200 stones worth of bolts. 1600 in the beetle.
Optimistically, 10 seconds to get the right quest, mark as quest item, and confirm.
That's a little over 30 minutes of turning in quests without having to reveal to restock, or anything. Over four hours for everything.

Also, I don't like to people who run up to see if I'm attended.
If they wanted to actually talk, then I mightn't be opposed.
I object to having to prove my innocence to a complete stranger, who doesn't carry any authority, or care for anything but the chance I might be cheating.

I'm lost... heartwood quest you need bolts?

 

[Bodhi]

Funny how one person violates the rules to prove someone elses wrong doing... Blocking pathways is illegal as much as scripting is. Scripters have little impact on the economy, dupers impact it. Dupers can change an economy over night, scripters would take years.
I agree with kiminality, why would i reply if u you are just looking to page on someone, go ahead, ill be long logged out before GM comes to talk to me, and if he does, ill have a nice conversation with him, and get on with my business... This game is so overexploited that it needs a massive change, not a witchhunt, till that massive change comes, leave me to my business and you stick to yours. I dont see any wrongdoing in making some 'scripting gold' as long as i dont interfere in anyone's gameplay. For all u know, my scripted gold will buy the items on your vendor noone else would

 

[D'Amavir]

If you're hidden, and mount a beetle, then it hides with you.

If you do the quest for bolts, you have to turn in 1 stone worth of bolts.
Say you carry 200 stones worth of bolts. 1600 in the beetle.
Optimistically, 10 seconds to get the right quest, mark as quest item, and confirm.
That's a little over 30 minutes of turning in quests without having to reveal to restock, or anything. Over four hours for everything.

Also, I don't like to people who run up to see if I'm attended.
If they wanted to actually talk, then I mightn't be opposed.
I object to having to prove my innocence to a complete stranger, who doesn't carry any authority, or care for anything but the chance I might be cheating.

Doesn't the pack on the beetle disappear when you mount them? I agree though, you could do a lot of quests without having to restock if you do it right. But I doubt you can do four hours worth without ever revealing a pack/beetle as was implied. Which leads me to believe that either the original poster was mistaken, lied or that there is a bug allowing people to get around resource requirements. That, if true, needs to be addressed asap. It is not a scripting issue though. Its a bug issue.

Not saying anything negative or making any accusations, but I went to the spot they claimed this was happening at 23/7 several times between last night and now and I didn't see anything happening like they said. No random crafting sounds, no items popping into the trash and no one invised around the area. Maybe there are people that do script the quests there. I am sure there are. But not to the degree that has been claimed here.

Then again, that was just my statistical sampling of the situation.

 

[D'Amavir]

Funny how one person violates the rules to prove someone elses wrong doing... Blocking pathways is illegal as much as scripting is. Scripters have little impact on the economy, dupers impact it. Dupers can change an economy over night, scripters would take years.
I agree with kiminality, why would i reply if u you are just looking to page on someone, go ahead, ill be long logged out before GM comes to talk to me, and if he does, ill have a nice conversation with him, and get on with my business... This game is so overexploited that it needs a massive change, not a witchhunt, till that massive change comes, leave me to my business and you stick to yours. I dont see any wrongdoing in making some 'scripting gold' as long as i dont interfere in anyone's gameplay. For all u know, my scripted gold will buy the items on your vendor noone else would

Couldn't agree more. The actual impacts of 'scripting' versus duping and the lack are miles apart. EA encourages scripting by adding more and more tedium to their game. Remove that and you cut down on the need for outside tools to do in game tasks.

 

[ColterDC]

Don't worry Kyrie

Most of these die hard posters who are jumping down your throat are in fact scripters.

The honest player really is the minority these days.

 

[UOKaiser]

Million stone limit bank boxes
floating no recall zones that hover over banker NPCs
containers not automatically appearing on house steps
"Heat of battle" recall restrictions on beetles and packies
Increased storage on pack animals
Fatigue formulas on recall and all recall like spells
Add low-mid armor and weapons and other various trinkets dropped from PvM to collections quests. Make their point value based on intensity of attributes and make it comparable to frostwood points.

.

Nah no good Gheed. Million stone limit boxes they just use homes then and it punishes the regular players.
Floating no recall zones they use rails and punishes the regular payers
Containers not automaticaly appearing on steps punishes the regular resource players as they will now have to take more time to walk into there home. And once again rails
heat of battle. Almost every resource gatherer will be dead everytime especially in fel.
Increse storage that sounds good
fatigue formula will mess whith everyone playing and the ones youre aiming at wont even dent them as there not even there to notice. But the attended regular players will be mowed over.
Add more items to the library I like that one.

 

[The Home Guild]

Don't worry Kyrie

Most of these die hard posters who are jumping down your throat are in fact scripters.

The honest player really is the minority these days.

Need a tissue?

 

[ColterDC]

Exactly the reply I would expect from someone like yourself.

How is the ruining the game for a few RL dollars treating ya?

 

[UOKaiser]

Don't worry Kyrie

The honest player really is the minority these days.

You may be right there but I believe because am plagued by honest players playing cop and going to the point of griefing other honest players or non honest players that even the so call honest players are worse than the ones they try to catch.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Don't worry Kyrie

Most of these die hard posters who are jumping down your throat are in fact scripters.

The honest player really is the minority these days.

No worries here.

Actually I'm not taking this as anyone jumping down my throat. Everyone has their own opinions about this topic.

The main problem here is that people aren't reading and understanding what the situation has been.

1. Someone is hidden in Heartwood doing fletching quests.
2. The person is hidden with no pack animals (maybe a beetle)
3. The person is there for a loooooooooong time, at least the 4-5 hours I spend there.
4. If the person did have a pack animal, or was on a beetle then they would be seen coming and going.
5. I have not seen anyone that is coming or going.
6. Periodically you can hear the turn in sound for the quest and it happens like 10 times in a row.
7. Immediately after the turn in sounds stop the trash can starts spamming messages.

I started working on my fletching again on Sunday the 21st, and I have spent 5 nights in Heartwood for at least 4-5 hours each night. With the exception of last night, that person has been there the entire time every night.

Is it possible that it's someone running macros? Yes
Is it possible that it's someone stealthing in and out of Heartwood? Yes

But if you sat there as long as I did you would answer NO to both of those questions. Because they were there way too long to be carrying enough supplies or be sitting on a beetle.

Just so I understood what everyone was talking about with KR and the macro system, I dusted off my KR.exe on my desktop and waited for all the updates last night. I then went to Heartwood with a load of wood and used the macros to run the repeating crossbow quest. I made 10 marked crossbows, then turned them, rinse and repeat.

The sounds I heard were of items being made (sometimes you couldn't hear anything being made), then all of a sudden hearing the turn in sound over and over and over again, very fast and repeatedly (way faster than I can get the quests and turn in items.) Then the trash can would start spamming messages. Then quiet for a short time and it started all over again.

In my Opinion, there is something wrong with this picture.

Everyone else can have their own take on it, but I would suggest spending some time in Heartwood, and actually experiencing what I did, before you pass judgement.

I always see people in Heartwood macroing quests, and I think I've played the game long enough to know when something definitely seems wrong. That being said, I truly believe that there is someone there that is either scripting, or has found a new bug, and it could very well be detrimental to the game. That was my whole reason for this post.

I am not the kind of person that runs around clicking the Help button and paging GM's, so my initial question was asked in hopes of someone, that has run into a situation like this recently, would respond with an intelligent answer.

The last thing I want to do is take a GM's time from helping someone that is in trouble, but at the same time I would honestly like to know if this kind of situation is worth reporting?

 

[Black Majick]

i never block their routes because i read on here a few times that GM's nail YOU for illegally blocking someone's route, even if it's a cheater... you block a scripter's route and page a GM and when the GM shows up it's you who ends up in jail. i don't want any part of that!

Make a small maze. If they are attended they will move them or they will get and walk through the maze. As long as you leave an open path for them to get through, no harm done!

 

[UOKaiser]

No worries here.

Actually I'm not taking this as anyone jumping down my throat. Everyone has their own opinions about this topic.

The main problem here is that people aren't reading and understanding what the situation has been.

1. Someone is hidden in Heartwood doing fletching quests.
2. The person is hidden with no pack animals (maybe a beetle)
3. The person is there for a loooooooooong time, at least the 4-5 hours I spend there.
4. If the person did have a pack animal, or was on a beetle then they would be seen coming and going.
5. I have not seen anyone that is coming or going.
6. Periodically you can hear the turn in sound for the quest and it happens like 10 times in a row.
7. Immediately after the turn in sounds stop the trash can starts spamming messages.

I started working on my fletching again on Sunday the 21st, and I have spent 5 nights in Heartwood for at least 4-5 hours each night. With the exception of last night, that person has been there the entire time every night.

Is it possible that it's someone running macros? Yes
Is it possible that it's someone stealthing in and out of Heartwood? Yes

But if you sat there as long as I did you would answer NO to both of those questions. Because they were there way too long to be carrying enough supplies or be sitting on a beetle.

Just so I understood what everyone was talking about with KR and the macro system, I dusted off my KR.exe on my desktop and waited for all the updates last night. I then went to Heartwood with a load of wood and used the macros to run the repeating crossbow quest. I made 10 marked crossbows, then turned them, rinse and repeat.

The sounds I heard were of items being made (sometimes you couldn't hear anything being made), then all of a sudden hearing the turn in sound over and over and over again, very fast and repeatedly (way faster than I can get the quests and turn in items.) Then the trash can would start spamming messages. Then quiet for a short time and it started all over again.

In my Opinion, there is something wrong with this picture.

Everyone else can have their own take on it, but I would suggest spending some time in Heartwood, and actually experiencing what I did, before you pass judgement.

I always see people in Heartwood macroing quests, and I think I've played the game long enough to know when something definitely seems wrong. That being said, I truly believe that there is someone there that is either scripting, or has found a new bug, and it could very well be detrimental to the game. That was my whole reason for this post.

I am not the kind of person that runs around clicking the Help button and paging GM's, so my initial question was asked in hopes of someone, that has run into a situation like this recently, would respond with an intelligent answer.

The last thing I want to do is take a GM's time from helping someone that is in trouble, but at the same time I would honestly like to know if this kind of situation is worth reporting?

Still maybe they arent even using macros and thats why they are taking foever. Am sure if there was a bug of this manitude it would of spread everywhere already. Did you try detect hidden? Did you go there with someone else and see if they hear the same thing you hear at the same time?

 

[D'Amavir]

The last thing I want to do is take a GM's time from helping someone that is in trouble, but at the same time I would honestly like to know if this kind of situation is worth reporting?

Again, if someone is able to avoid the need for resources it is definitely a problem. However, its not a 'scripting' problem, its a bug problem. Scripts don't allow things like that, they take advantage of existing bugs like that. You might want to focus your reporting on those involving 'bugs' as opposed to those involving 'scripting', attended or otherwise. Bug reporting is an important tool in games like this and all players should take the time to report bugs and such.

I would like to see this in action myself. I am on Pac again (fifth time since last night) and I don't experience anything like that. No trash barrel spam, no crafting noises, nothing like that. I am not saying you are lying, I just want to see it for myself before I make a judgement. I am silly like that.

As has been said, scripting doesn't allow you to do anything that the existing game mechanics don't already allow. It just helps you automate some tasks that are seen by many as being tedious. Sure, some people use scripts to do things while they aren't there. But, they are still limited to game mechanics just as everyone else is. If EA came on today and suddenly said that scripting was legal, would all those people so vehemently against it suddenly feel that it was ok? Doubtful. Just like those that are/were so vehemently opposed to selling in game items for real money didn't suddenly feel that was ok when they came out and said it was legal to do.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Still maybe they arent even using macros and thats why they are taking foever. Am sure if there was a bug of this manitude it would of spread everywhere already. Did you try detect hidden? Did you go there with someone else and see if they hear the same thing you hear at the same time?

I didn't try detect hidden. I didn't think detect hidden would work in a Tram ruleset, am I wrong?

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Again, if someone is able to avoid the need for resources it is definitely a problem. However, its not a 'scripting' problem, its a bug problem. Scripts don't allow things like that, they take advantage of existing bugs like that. You might want to focus your reporting on those involving 'bugs' as opposed to those involving 'scripting', attended or otherwise. Bug reporting is an important tool in games like this and all players should take the time to report bugs and such.

I would like to see this in action myself. I am on Pac again (fifth time since last night) and I don't experience anything like that. No trash barrel spam, no crafting noises, nothing like that. I am not saying you are lying, I just want to see it for myself before I make a judgement. I am silly like that.

As has been said, scripting doesn't allow you to do anything that the existing game mechanics don't already allow. It just helps you automate some tasks that are seen by many as being tedious. Sure, some people use scripts to do things while they aren't there. But, they are still limited to game mechanics just as everyone else is. If EA came on today and suddenly said that scripting was legal, would all those people so vehemently against it suddenly feel that it was ok? Doubtful. Just like those that are/were so vehemently opposed to selling in game items for real money didn't suddenly feel that was ok when they came out and said it was legal to do.

I was on again last night for a while and nothing. So I'm wondering if they didn't happen to see this post here.

 

[Gheed]

Nah no good Gheed. Million stone limit boxes they just use homes then and it punishes the regular players.
Floating no recall zones they use rails and punishes the regular payers
Containers not automaticaly appearing on steps punishes the regular resource players as they will now have to take more time to walk into there home. And once again rails
heat of battle. Almost every resource gatherer will be dead everytime especially in fel.
Increse storage that sounds good
fatigue formula will mess whith everyone playing and the ones youre aiming at wont even dent them as there not even there to notice. But the attended regular players will be mowed over.
Add more items to the library I like that one.

Most of these things do punish regular players. But they punish scripting exponentially more.

Million stone limit boxes they just use homes then and it punishes the regular players.

A million stones is allot of friggin stones! Except to a scripter. Yes! They will have to use their homes to drop off instead this cuts off the ability to randomly drop off ore at any bank on either facet. Since randomizing resources gave scripting the ability to mine/chop from anywhere on the map, scripters can now operate in perfect stealth. Put yourself in that mindset: How do I run this script all day without getting paged on? Well what I would do is have a 3 or 4 books of obscure locations to mine marked. If I were to detect another player in my journal I could cut that location out of the cycle for an hour or so. I would have plenty of alternate locations to fill the gap. The same goes for drop off. If I were to recall to a bank to drop off and see anyone else there, I can cut that drop off out of the rotation and drop off somewhere else. Then add that location back after an amount of time passed that you deemed it safe. Cutting out banks as drop off points forces them to use a house and makes them much more detectable.

Another alternantive would be to limit stack size of ore to 1000. Then you quickly start to fill up secure boxes unless you code smelting in your script.

Floating no recall zones they use rails and punishes the regular payers
Containers not automatically appearing on steps punishes the regular resource players as they will now have to take more time to walk into there home. And once again rails

Yes they punish the regular player. But look at how attended folks harvest as opposed to scripted:

If your are legitimate odds are you are using a pack animal/fire beetle of some sort. This is more efficient. You spend more time out in the field gathering resources to fill up your packie. You actually spend much less time dropping off. Increased storage on packies extends this process even more. It allows you to stay out in the field gathering even longer. Yes they will take more time to walk onto the steps or to a banker NPC but they are dropping off resources far far less than the standard scripter:

Standard scripting fills up a scripters' personal pack then that char recalls to a drop off point. In fel it takes mere seconds to fill up that pack. Having to rail up the house steps or to a banker NPC adds a few seconds to the cycle. Those few extra seconds per drop off really add up over a 23 hr period and cuts the total yield considerably.

Heat of battle applies to pack animals only. I admit this is weak but it prevents a scripter from panicking out (with the loot) if they are threatened... and bold enough to use a packie doing it.

fatigue formula will mess with everyone playing and the ones you're aiming at wont even dent them as there not even there to notice. But the attended regular players will be mowed over.

This fatigue formula can be very broad and use standard common sense. Does it make sense that most legitimate players would recall 500 times in two hours? (That's more than 4 recalls/minute for two hours straight). 4 recalls/minute isn't too far fetched for a scripter. That's only two drop offs/minute. But legitimate a miner using a pakie would probably do well to get half that many recalls/hour. And only then because their mining points are depleting too fast. And with RNG'ed resources there really isn't a need to recall to a new spot after the current one dries up. Maybe if this happens (500 recalls/2 hours)there should be a cool off period between recalls... 30 seconds or so for an hour.

Those ideas don't stop scripting but they do take allot of steam out of the process. And a weakness of scripting is that it isn't fast enough to deal with emergency situations.... like a pack animal getting attacked by and NPC mob or any PvP scenario. So scripters don't mess with packies for the extra burden. And why should they when they can just recall/drop off? These ideas change game mechanics to reward players that use pack animals to assist them in resource gathering. It penalizes those that don't. It may not make sense to some. Some may legitimately use mechanics of a scripter to gather resources. I have no Idea why they would. It is very inefficient. But I have never mined with out a pack animal or fire beetle so it makes sense to me.

 

[Mishra_]

I just fail to see why anyone would really care enough to stand there for a few hours and watch. As I’m running around, I don’t think I ever stop long enough to see if anyone is scripting (or care). It’s just sad to me that you would care so much that it takes away from your own fun.

 

[Tina Small]

No worries here.

Actually I'm not taking this as anyone jumping down my throat. Everyone has their own opinions about this topic.

The main problem here is that people aren't reading and understanding what the situation has been.

1. Someone is hidden in Heartwood doing fletching quests.
2. The person is hidden with no pack animals (maybe a beetle)
3. The person is there for a loooooooooong time, at least the 4-5 hours I spend there.
4. If the person did have a pack animal, or was on a beetle then they would be seen coming and going.
5. I have not seen anyone that is coming or going.
6. Periodically you can hear the turn in sound for the quest and it happens like 10 times in a row.
7. Immediately after the turn in sounds stop the trash can starts spamming messages.

I started working on my fletching again on Sunday the 21st, and I have spent 5 nights in Heartwood for at least 4-5 hours each night. With the exception of last night, that person has been there the entire time every night.

Is it possible that it's someone running macros? Yes
Is it possible that it's someone stealthing in and out of Heartwood? Yes

But if you sat there as long as I did you would answer NO to both of those questions. Because they were there way too long to be carrying enough supplies or be sitting on a beetle.

Just so I understood what everyone was talking about with KR and the macro system, I dusted off my KR.exe on my desktop and waited for all the updates last night. I then went to Heartwood with a load of wood and used the macros to run the repeating crossbow quest. I made 10 marked crossbows, then turned them, rinse and repeat.

The sounds I heard were of items being made (sometimes you couldn't hear anything being made), then all of a sudden hearing the turn in sound over and over and over again, very fast and repeatedly (way faster than I can get the quests and turn in items.) Then the trash can would start spamming messages. Then quiet for a short time and it started all over again.

In my Opinion, there is something wrong with this picture.

Everyone else can have their own take on it, but I would suggest spending some time in Heartwood, and actually experiencing what I did, before you pass judgement.

I always see people in Heartwood macroing quests, and I think I've played the game long enough to know when something definitely seems wrong. That being said, I truly believe that there is someone there that is either scripting, or has found a new bug, and it could very well be detrimental to the game. That was my whole reason for this post.

I am not the kind of person that runs around clicking the Help button and paging GM's, so my initial question was asked in hopes of someone, that has run into a situation like this recently, would respond with an intelligent answer.

The last thing I want to do is take a GM's time from helping someone that is in trouble, but at the same time I would honestly like to know if this kind of situation is worth reporting?

Kyrie, I've been pondering this one since you posted it and about the only plausible explanation I can come up with is that someone is sitting there hidden with a backpack full of board summoning talismans and runed switches for recharging them. I can't remember how long it takes to recharge a talisman, but I wonder if they put on each of the talismans in turn to summon some boards. Then they make the quest items and turn them in. Then they would have to put on each talisman long enough to recharge it and periodically when each one runs out of charges, recharge it with a runed switch.

When you first posted this, I wasn't sure but now reading your latest post and seeing you mention long pauses of inactivity, I wonder if this isn't what's going on. Doesn't necessarily mean someone is scripting, but the rapid-fire turn-in sounds seem suspicious. And talk about inefficiency if you are actually attended. Would be far faster to just go get more boards rather than wait for stuff to recharge. And making runed switches is just a bear of a process....

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

I just fail to see why anyone would really care enough to stand there for a few hours and watch. As I’m running around, I don’t think I ever stop long enough to see if anyone is scripting (or care). It’s just sad to me that you would care so much that it takes away from your own fun.

Apparently you failed to read that I was working my fletching skills there. I definitely have better things to do than stand around looking for scripters. It just so happens that this was going on while I was training my bowcrafter. It didn't take anything away from the fun of my game. Just a concerned player, that happened to be coherent and aware of my surroundings during my game play.

 

[D'Amavir]

Kyrie, I've been pondering this one since you posted it and about the only plausible explanation I can come up with is that someone is sitting there hidden with a backpack full of board summoning talismans and runed switches for recharging them. I can't remember how long it takes to recharge a talisman, but I wonder if they put on each of the talismans in turn to summon some boards. Then they make the quest items and turn them in. Then they would have to put on each talisman long enough to recharge it and periodically when each one runs out of charges, recharge it with a runed switch.

When you first posted this, I wasn't sure but now reading your latest post and seeing you mention long pauses of inactivity, I wonder if this isn't what's going on. Doesn't necessarily mean someone is scripting, but the rapid-fire turn-in sounds seem suspicious. And talk about inefficiency if you are actually attended. Would be far faster to just go get more boards rather than wait for stuff to recharge. And making runed switches is just a bear of a process....

You are talking about more talisman items and more switches than you could hold in your pack in order to make something like that even possible. To me, the three answers would have to be 1. Someone stealthing in and out to get more wood, 2. Someone finding a bug that lets them bypass resource requirements or 3. The original poster is mistaken about either the frequency of this occurring or is getting random chatter on his client.

Not sure which since I haven't been able to witness it myself yet.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Kyrie, I've been pondering this one since you posted it and about the only plausible explanation I can come up with is that someone is sitting there hidden with a backpack full of board summoning talismans and runed switches for recharging them. I can't remember how long it takes to recharge a talisman, but I wonder if they put on each of the talismans in turn to summon some boards. Then they make the quest items and turn them in. Then they would have to put on each talisman long enough to recharge it and periodically when each one runs out of charges, recharge it with a runed switch.

When you first posted this, I wasn't sure but now reading your latest post and seeing you mention long pauses of inactivity, I wonder if this isn't what's going on. Doesn't necessarily mean someone is scripting, but the rapid-fire turn-in sounds seem suspicious. And talk about inefficiency if you are actually attended. Would be far faster to just go get more boards rather than wait for stuff to recharge. And making runed switches is just a bear of a process....

This is highly possible. Would it be profitable for someone to spend that kind of effort to get runics?

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

You are talking about more talisman items and more switches than you could hold in your pack in order to make something like that even possible. To me, the three answers would have to be 1. Someone stealthing in and out to get more wood, 2. Someone finding a bug that lets them bypass resource requirements or 3. The original poster is mistaken about either the frequency of this occurring or is getting random chatter on his client.

Not sure which since I haven't been able to witness it myself yet.

I hope it's 1 or 3. LOL

Maybe it could be 4. I have been taking too much cold medication.

ATM it's a mystery, and a frustrating one at that.

 

[D'Amavir]

I hope it's 1 or 3. LOL

Maybe it could be 4. I have been taking too much cold medication.

ATM it's a mystery, and a frustrating one at that.

It being number 2 would be the only one that really bothered me. I have been scouring the usual suspects looking for even a hint of something like that and haven't found anything yet. Not that that means it doesn't exist, just that the chatter hasn't picked up on it yet.

 

[Tina Small]

This is highly possible. Would it be profitable for someone to spend that kind of effort to get runics?

I don't know. I have never bothered to keep board or ingot summoning talismans. They always seemed pointless. But now I wonder. If you're doing lots of quests, you probably get a fair number of them just as you're doing the quests, so maybe you don't even have to worry that much about making the runed switches.

I assume the board and ingot versions summon 10 boards, like the bandage summoning talismans summon 10 bandages. If they charge back up to 40 or 50 uses, that's 400-500 boards per charged talisman. So having just three or four of them fully charged is one pack animal full of boards. Having more of them and a supply of runed switches...I don't know. Seems to me you could save yourself a lot of time running for boards if you did it right and you didn't mind waiting for them to recharge. (I checked with one of my bandage summoning talismans and it looks like it takes 60 seconds of actually wearing it to recharge it.)

I don't think it's that implausible.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

I don't know. I have never bothered to keep board or ingot summoning talismans. They always seemed pointless. But now I wonder. If you're doing lots of quests, you probably get a fair number of them just as you're doing the quests, so maybe you don't even have to worry that much about making the runed switches.

I assume the board and ingot versions summon 10 boards, like the bandage summoning talismans summon 10 bandages. If they charge back up to 40 or 50 uses, that's 400-500 boards per charged talisman. So having just three or four of them fully charged is one pack animal full of boards. Having more of them and a supply of runed switches...I don't know. Seems to me you could save yourself a lot of time running for boards if you did it right and you didn't mind waiting for them to recharge. (I checked with one of my bandage summoning talismans and it looks like it takes 60 seconds of actually wearing it to recharge it.)


I don't think it's that implausible.

I have burned about 60,000 boards this week on the repeating crossbow quest and haven't gotten a summoning talisman yet. Maybe I just have rotten luck.

The best things I have gotten were 2 Blight Gripped Bow recipes, a Faerie Fire recipe, and about 3 slayer talismans.

By the way, trying to GM Fletching/Bowcrafting is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay booooooooooooooooooring!

 

[UOKaiser]

This fatigue formula can be very broad and use standard common sense. Does it make sense that most legitimate players would recall 500 times in two hours? (That's more than 4 recalls/minute for two hours straight). 4 recalls/minute isn't too far fetched for a scripter. That's only two drop offs/minute. But legitimate a miner using a pakie would probably do well to get half that many recalls/hour. And only then because their mining points are depleting too fast. And with RNG'ed resources there really isn't a need to recall to a new spot after the current one dries up. Maybe if this happens (500 recalls/2 hours)there should be a cool off period between recalls... 30 seconds or so for an hour.

I know you put some deep thought into this and theres alot to reply to but i need to think about what you said before I can give any reply to it. but I can reply to this one from my experience.

I consider time as a large factor and found the best way to mine at least for me is to recall. i grab my uoassit i have my macros carefully set up recall-dig-dig etc recall dig dig dig etc recall. Got my mining books got my home drop of spot got my hotkeys for each macro. I press 1 key i recall and dig the spot till it dries i press the other key i recall and dig the spot till it dries i press another key and am back home droping of my ore and continue down my list of rune spots carefully marked to be able to hit more than 1 vein in 1 recall without wasting time moving a inch. i find this best for me in time vs resource gained. Got the same thing for lumber jacking also got my emergancy macro hot key to get the hell out of there if any problems. N ow granted I have no idea how many recalls I do whithin a hour but I know its alot. I travel the world I would do this also whith a beattle I get off stop my macro load my beattle and on I go. i make sure the beattle is bonded so I dont have to sit on it while i recall. So really this will punish both legitamate players and others.
Also what i found is the randomization of ore doesnt randomize all that often in a day. Maybe twice a day. But I have spots that i mined val all day long and didnt switch till the next morning I run into this alot.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

Ok,

I'm here again tonight. I've been here for 30 minutes, and that person was here when I got here.

There is a 2 minute pause with absolutely no working sounds. Then exactly 8 quest turn in dings, and then 8 messages from the trash can.

This is on Pacific at the Heartwood fletching quests.

There are no other pack animals around but mine.

And yes, fletching is boring enough that I have time to do this while fletching.

 

[Pink Dragoness]

how many false calls does it take before a GM gets annoyed and quits replying to every page on assumed scripters. Then when you really need one there aren't around?
__________________________________________________________________________


They are around, I watched Gary roll the dice and summoned those GM's, yes indeed, they stood talking to each other, all dressed in their red. Yep they are around, standing in the void, waiting to be summoned.
lol

I dont care much for the scripting in the game, but I will be first to admit, that it came in handy building up spring collection points by going to the fletching area and getting the reciepe and talisman from the bags being discarded on the ground, I also found three Oak runics on ground.
*shrugs*

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

I think I figured out what this person has done.

I just hit GM fletching and went to work on the Darts quest. I carried about 2k arrows with me and then figured out that there is a two minute timer on the quest before you can take it again.

This person has figured out how to run the quest 8 times at the end of every 2 minute timer.

You never hear any working noises, and every two minutes you hear the quest noise ding 8 times, then the trash barrel spams 8 messages. Two minutes later it starts all over again.




I hope they get caught.

 

[RoycroftLS]

Ok,

I'm here again tonight. I've been here for 30 minutes, and that person was here when I got here.

There is a 2 minute pause with absolutely no working sounds. Then exactly 8 quest turn in dings, and then 8 messages from the trash can.

This is on Pacific at the Heartwood fletching quests.

There are no other pack animals around but mine.

And yes, fletching is boring enough that I have time to do this while fletching.

It sounds like you might have a stealther on your hands. They stealth in and out, buying bows at the bowyer to the east of the Heartwood entrance to use for completing the quests. No crafting sounds, you can buy enough bows at a time to deduct directly from your bank, and you wouldn't see anyone since they are always hidden.

It's not too difficult to verify if that is indeed the case... when your mysterious person is doing quests, check to see if the bowyer's stock of bows changes every so often, or if the doors to his building open at random.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

I'll go check that out.

I don't think it's the case though. I took 4 packies with me with 6500 boards and it took me over two hours to use them up doing the quest I was doing. This person was there the entire time, and it was like clockwork.

8 Quest Dings, followed by 8 trash can spammed messages, followed by 2 minutes of silence and then all over again. It was non-stop the entire two hours I was there.