Use www.uostuff.com and it redirects to uoguide
-
Hail Guest! We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
-
Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
-
Hail Guest!, Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
-
Hail Guest! Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!
New URL Policy Revealed - UOGuide Complies (EA Rejects) [Updated Again, long title]
- Thread starter JC the Builder
- Start date
- Watchers 6
T
Tancred RedStar
Guest
I'm sorry, but this is all getting way too ridiculous. I have spent probably hundreds of hours editting, contributing and spellchecking pages on UOGuide to SHARE my 9+ years of UO lore and knowledge with any other player.
UO Guide is not a pay site, has no advertisements for gold brokers, game codes or any of that mess or even Viagra or meds. It's simply a freely edittable guide for any and all to contribute to. JC makes no money off it and pays for it out of his pocket, it's being done for the community, not to buy him a Corvette whereas the only allowed site, Stratics, *is* for-profit, not to mention advertising games that compete with UO.
Don't get me wrong, I was a Stratics mod on and off for years and supported it in that capacity as well as being a paid StraticsPlus member as well, but there should be opportunity for all, esp if it's non-profit at the very least, or re-open the vetting process.
What if Stratics takes a dirt nap, aka the Great Stratics Crash of 2008 a few months back? There will be no sanctioned sites whatsoever and technically the other player community sites are running under the radar, whispered in back alleys.
Remember Hurricane Katrina? How many players donated gold so a donation from the UO community could be made to the Red Cross? Such an activity would now be verboten since it would involve the mention/advertising of other websites.
Is mentioning my email address illegal since it's on Hotmail, which has ads?
There needs to be rules and guidelines, but they should both fit and protect the community and the game and right now I don't think that ideal is being fulfilled.
UO Guide is not a pay site, has no advertisements for gold brokers, game codes or any of that mess or even Viagra or meds. It's simply a freely edittable guide for any and all to contribute to. JC makes no money off it and pays for it out of his pocket, it's being done for the community, not to buy him a Corvette whereas the only allowed site, Stratics, *is* for-profit, not to mention advertising games that compete with UO.
Don't get me wrong, I was a Stratics mod on and off for years and supported it in that capacity as well as being a paid StraticsPlus member as well, but there should be opportunity for all, esp if it's non-profit at the very least, or re-open the vetting process.
What if Stratics takes a dirt nap, aka the Great Stratics Crash of 2008 a few months back? There will be no sanctioned sites whatsoever and technically the other player community sites are running under the radar, whispered in back alleys.
Remember Hurricane Katrina? How many players donated gold so a donation from the UO community could be made to the Red Cross? Such an activity would now be verboten since it would involve the mention/advertising of other websites.
Is mentioning my email address illegal since it's on Hotmail, which has ads?
There needs to be rules and guidelines, but they should both fit and protect the community and the game and right now I don't think that ideal is being fulfilled.
The more I think about this, the sillier it gets...
Right now, EA/Mythic are pleased to say they are encouraging people to build mods for the KR/SA interface - but in-game, you'll not be able to tell anyone where to GET the mods you've worked on, uness you manage to get a mention by EA in a FoF or similar. You can supposedly refer to 'approved' sites - but there's no system for getting sites 'approved' any more. There's no 'official' site that's in any way, shape or form comprehensive about anything, let alone keeping up on the good fansites out there.
It's just nonsense. One of the things that builds a good community in a game is the ability to refer people to good sites for info and discussion. Trying to stop people using 'bad' sites is a nice thought, but if you end up preventing reference to any sites it's about as counter to 'building community' as you can get.
It's not EA/Mythic's job to protect us from ourselves and try police the world - not even their 'own' world. You can put a nice big warning in the login screen, and after that it's up to us as responsible adults not to be stupid.
Stop trying to be our parents...... stick to fixing what's really broken in the game and give up the half-baked 'social engineering'.
Right now, EA/Mythic are pleased to say they are encouraging people to build mods for the KR/SA interface - but in-game, you'll not be able to tell anyone where to GET the mods you've worked on, uness you manage to get a mention by EA in a FoF or similar. You can supposedly refer to 'approved' sites - but there's no system for getting sites 'approved' any more. There's no 'official' site that's in any way, shape or form comprehensive about anything, let alone keeping up on the good fansites out there.
It's just nonsense. One of the things that builds a good community in a game is the ability to refer people to good sites for info and discussion. Trying to stop people using 'bad' sites is a nice thought, but if you end up preventing reference to any sites it's about as counter to 'building community' as you can get.
It's not EA/Mythic's job to protect us from ourselves and try police the world - not even their 'own' world. You can put a nice big warning in the login screen, and after that it's up to us as responsible adults not to be stupid.
Stop trying to be our parents...... stick to fixing what's really broken in the game and give up the half-baked 'social engineering'.
J
Jeremy
Guest
Just got the confirmation - the websites on the UO Pro apps page that I linked above are fine to mention.
Guys, I understand that enforcement of this policy is rather a sudden change, and I really appreciate that fansites are trying to work with us about it. I'm confident that we'll be able to find acceptable solutions all around.
Guys, I understand that enforcement of this policy is rather a sudden change, and I really appreciate that fansites are trying to work with us about it. I'm confident that we'll be able to find acceptable solutions all around.
A
AesSedai
Guest
- But would you say the same thing when somebody tells you to goto what sounds like a legitimate site, only to have a keylogger snuck onto your pc when you visit, and eventually have your account hacked if not much, much worse?
As was said just mention prominent sites such as uoguide and people can locate them fairly easily with a search engine.
This old old policy makes sense.
(Although it is unfortunate that people have abused the game & its players and as a result we all end up suffering a bit.)
As was said just mention prominent sites such as uoguide and people can locate them fairly easily with a search engine.
This old old policy makes sense.
(Although it is unfortunate that people have abused the game & its players and as a result we all end up suffering a bit.)
L
Lord Drakelord
Guest
/signed
Yes, in the same way I've learned from being scammed in-game in the past. I'm responsible for what I do on my PC. It's not up to EA/Mythic to make me think, that's MY responsibility.
EA's responsibilities are stuff like preventing me being sold 'illegal' items in the game..... THAT needs fixing more than a silly, unenforceable 'don't mention a website' rule will ever do.
And I will be saving a link to this direct quote, because I have no confidence in the GM staff to know this. Someone will page on someone and say "they typed a URL to a site with cash solicitations on it!!" and the GM will go an see the "donation button" and the person will be suspended/banned even before they can say "But the rule says pro-ap sites are excluded!"
Remember we are talking about non-exclusive UO GM's here ... they are gonna get confused or just not know ... (reference thread last weeked about a GM going to delete a corroded box because "it is a quest item and should never have been out of your backpack and thank you for playing DAoC".)
the only objection I have to this part, Jeremy, is that wading thru a mountain of emails locks up your time that would otherwise be spent building a meaningful FoF
I understand that you don't answer all the questions yourself, that many are handed off to one department or another, but you need to actually see the comments to hand them off, yes?
T
T_Amon_from_work
Guest
Of the website links in the page you reference:
UOAssist/UO Automap - these have been covered
UO Calculator/UO Spawn Map - dead pages, calculator goes to some approximate searh, 404 error on the map
Magic Tool/Curse Tool - specifies as freeware
Journal Converter - unknown, not specified in the website link
Sooo, there are currently approved items that in effect violate this rule. I hope you can get an answer for us.
UOAssist/UO Automap - these have been covered
UO Calculator/UO Spawn Map - dead pages, calculator goes to some approximate searh, 404 error on the map
Magic Tool/Curse Tool - specifies as freeware
Journal Converter - unknown, not specified in the website link
Sooo, there are currently approved items that in effect violate this rule. I hope you can get an answer for us.
Jeremy, I don't know why you guys even bother. Years ago someone invented a script with a "GM alarm" that let someone operate bots on every shard simultaneously while being able to appear "attended" when challenged by a GM, and that was basically the end of the road.
You never adapted, you never changed policy so you could ban these "attended" characters who mine/chop/farm all day, every day. The scripters basically won. The same script miner has been making stops near my house for years, and no matter how many times I page he's always back.
But hey, good work on this URL thing. That sure was important.
You never adapted, you never changed policy so you could ban these "attended" characters who mine/chop/farm all day, every day. The scripters basically won. The same script miner has been making stops near my house for years, and no matter how many times I page he's always back.
But hey, good work on this URL thing. That sure was important.
Yeah, I don't see that happening.
Please join us in #ultima-online, there are some friendly people who'd like to share some opinions with you in real-time.
N
Nosuperiors_Damnfewequals
Guest
Well now that EA is preventing all means of funding UOGuide, how do you propose that we get a faster host and better hardware? Plant some trees and see if money grows on them?
EA is taking a completely unrealistic stance on this issue by preventing fansites from supporting themselves through the charity of their visitors.
F
Flora Green
Guest
I don't even bother paging on them anymore. What's the point? They are free to cheat all they want, but omg mention uoguide.com and you are the bearer of all that is unholy. This URL stance they are only NOW enacting is beyond stupid.
Wow good thing Blizzard doesn't have this dumb policy.
Wowwiki.com has ads and is perhaps one of the most useful WoW related sites out there.
Why do I mention WoWwiki? Because UOGuide is essentially UO's version and VERY useful as opposed to Stratics still having some info that hasn't been changed since UOR lol.
Websites don't pay for themselves EA.
Wowwiki.com has ads and is perhaps one of the most useful WoW related sites out there.
Why do I mention WoWwiki? Because UOGuide is essentially UO's version and VERY useful as opposed to Stratics still having some info that hasn't been changed since UOR lol.
Websites don't pay for themselves EA.
Unless it involves EA hosting the sites (wouldn't work in our case) or sending us money, I'm rather stumped as to where an acceptable solution will be found.
T
Teeshy
Guest
JC, couldn't you have a note on the site that if people wanted to help support the site they could contact you via email address, and then discuss it from there? You aren't soliciting cash then on your site, because you *could* in theory accept gold donations, then sell the gold for cash yourself, since selling gold for cash doesnt seem to be against the rules?
I totally understand why these rules are in place, and agree with them. I know it makes it harder for you to get support - but there IS ways around it, as Jeremy said.
Instead of mentioning UOguide.com in game, you simply say "visit uo guide - get the link from the FoF" and link to that =)
And I need to check something, peopel are saying you can't mention google.com either, but that's not right is it? Google isn't set up to advertise in the way the rule is trying to prevent?
I think that the best solution can be have an official forum and an official playguide (updated...). Any software or games must have the right documentation and support... so why we must go in fan site for get a real and updated guide? why we must use 3rd party forums for communicate?
The reply? this is UO and it is in this situation from the beginning because UO is made by the community
so the solution of post link in the fof and then post the fof in game is a joke solution (IMO)
The reply? this is UO and it is in this situation from the beginning because UO is made by the community
so the solution of post link in the fof and then post the fof in game is a joke solution (IMO)
This doesn't work. People are probably thinking that items were just flying off the shelf and I am rolling in a bin of money. But it isn't true. Disregarding the donation made today, there hadn't been a donation since May 11, 2008. There hasn't been an item sale since April 2008. Guess how many fewer donations there are going to be without a big yellow button for people to see?
So for EA to come in and say we can't even have a donation button which gets almost no clicks really ticks me off.
Actually, that line exists in only one copy of your ROC, and, by the way, it's not the one on the UO website. It's the one you have to search for in the EA "Knowledge" base.
And, again, I implore you folks over at Mythic to sit down and develop a fair, and equitable policy regarding this, because it is, as it stands, poorly constructed, and really quite beyond belief.
A lot of people host their sites on services that also include banner ads because that's all they can afford to do. By putting the link to their guild website in the guild profile, they are technically in violation of your precious ROC.
There really needs to be someone sitting down and reviewing complaints for INTENT. It's one thing to say "Don't mention gold-selling websites in game." It's completely different to say "Don't mention a helpful UO tool in game because it asks for donations to help stay afloat so that it doesn't have to have banner ads to stay operational."
If you don't see the difference, there's a problem.
Errr... what's changed? That Stratics isn't the "official forum?" Or that your GMs are sending players here? Because your GMs DO still send players here.
Which is absolutely silly.
It's neither petty, nor nonconstructive. It's not an issue of one way or the other, it's the matter that there's an exception. Either they need to be across the board, or they need to do the appropriate thing and keep intent and content in mind. But this one-way-street line of thinking that they're currently implementing is an issue.
That's absolutely silly, Jeremy. Trying to protect people from themselves is a goal that you're ultimately going to fail at. And yet again, the issue comes down to this: You're CLEARLY not going to be scanning for mention of the words .net, .com, and .org in the game's database, which means that you have an ACTUAL PERSON PHYSICALLY look up the website in question. At that point is where logic and common sense come into play, and the person investigating the issue can say, "Now wait, here in the abuse log, the guy's saying go to my site and buy my warez, this warrants a ban, but in this case here, the guy said, 'Go here for information, and look, there's information here!'" This notion that in an INTERNET based game you can't mention things outside of the game, PARTICULARLY since your game does NOT provide necessary in-game tools in order to accomplish many things is LUDICROUS.
You have yet to provide even one very good reason, and the stance that it's unlikely to change is inappropriate. You have a duty to your customers to provide them rules that make sense and are appropriate for the situations involved.
Now, if the issue is that you're relying on outsourced customer service who can't logically make the determinations as to whether a site is appropriate or not, my suggestion is simple: Stop outsourcing your customer service.
But stop treating your customers like criminals for pointing to outside informational sources. It's getting old, this whole treat your customers like criminals thing, it is.
It's not whether or not you look at the coin from "add more sites" or "remove the exceptions." The issue people are having with your statement, Tomas, is that you somehow feel it is "nonconstructive" to state that there shouldn't be exceptions.
Which, given that you ARE a moderator, sounds a lot like you're saying, "Only CONSTRUCTIVE posts are allowed."
The issue, regardless of how you look at it, is this: EA/Mythic has a lousy policy that they seem VERY unwilling to budge on; if they are unwilling to budge, then they should remove the exceptions to the rule. Clearly most of us -- even the "nonconstructive" of us -- believe EA/Mythic should come up with a better policy than what they have, but they are pretty clearly stating, "We'll come up with a solution, but we're not going to change our policy."
Another Mythic Failure.
Connor, the "big damn deal" as you call it, is pretty simple:
1) You can't ask for a player's ICQ#, because that would be referencing ICQ.com, which is something from the outside world.
2) Party and Guild chat also happen to be in-game, and so if someone complains, and that's logged (which I bet it is), whammo, another stealth banning.
3) And, uh, again, writing it in a book leaves a permanent trace (and they claim to know who wrote books.
The "big damn deal" is that they have a Draconian rule with regard to URLs, and they have it in an INTERNET-BASED game.
A
AesSedai
Guest
- That's odd, we were just told we could reference uoguide when in-game, so why couldn't we ask someone for icq (or even better Skype) information?
Basara
UO Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Here's an idea:
Accept donations of in-game items.
On a completely UNRELATED site (advertised by word of mouth, private messages, etc.), sell those items for the money to run UOGuide.
Or....
Talk to Jeremy & Regine, and see if you can get their marketing guys to buy sole rights to banner ad space on UOGuide for EA products only - after all, there's more to EA than Mythic, and they advertise a LOT of their console games with banner ads.
Which doesn't answer the more simple question: How does a player like me tell another player, "Go visit uoguide.com to see the write-up on old holiday items..." without getting banned?
That's right, Jeremy. According to your current rules, I don't.
A
AesSedai
Guest
- This is another example of why it is helpful to read the entire thread before venting.
Really?
REALLY?
Okay, so in order to reference an easily referenced site (you know, that's why they created URL's, right, so you don't have to remember http://255.191.180.201), instead, I have to remember a clunky UO.com sublink that will, in turn, lead them to a site that even though during FoF #121 was completely clear and clean, when they click that link, you still have NO control over what's on it today, and that's supposed to be a solution?
So, uh, by that logic, what's wrong with me putting something in my profile that says, "Go make a donation to UO Guide, you can view the site by visiting www.uo.blahblahblah.com/longurl#121"? I mean... really, I never mention anything other than a UO URL, right?
But wait, that's me soliciting, right? So, uh, why not take out the silliness, and move to a policy that looks at intent instead? Or is the two-man GM team REALLY that busy preparing for Warhammer Online that the couple of moments of conscious thought it would take to make that determination really can't be wasted?
I don't want to run a business selling UO items for money and never have. I just wanted to run a fansite. Why do I have to become a broker to do so? Isn't that what this policy is to prevent?
First, the chances of this happening are as high as KR succeeding. Second, I don't want banner ads on UOGuide. That was the whole point in having a discrete item shop.
EA's website for UO info needs to be updated severely and same goes for stratics. UO Guide is a must for any new player.
EA should fix in game issues involving glitches, speed hacking, dupes, LOS probs, and much other issues before they start infringing on ppls freedom of speech in game.
Wow...they own the game cuz they made it...kool. If thats the case...how come they aren't LEGALLY trying to shut down all these Chinese companies that employ child labor to play UO to make gold to sell for money I ask then!?
They are selling in game items and such that are under EA copyright therefore EA owns the items and gold etc.
GO after the big fishes not your paying customers EA!
Oh wait thats right EA has no say in what goes on in China so they pick on us instead!
Sounds just like a big corporation to me screwing over their customers.
I think I'll start playin my 360 again if this shyt keeps up where you have freedom speech and no jackasses hangin on every word treating a frikin adult game like its kindergarden
Bring back chopping off heads! UO is becoming too placid and politically correct and its ********...
~Time To Pay The Piper~
EA should fix in game issues involving glitches, speed hacking, dupes, LOS probs, and much other issues before they start infringing on ppls freedom of speech in game.
Wow...they own the game cuz they made it...kool. If thats the case...how come they aren't LEGALLY trying to shut down all these Chinese companies that employ child labor to play UO to make gold to sell for money I ask then!?
They are selling in game items and such that are under EA copyright therefore EA owns the items and gold etc.
GO after the big fishes not your paying customers EA!
Oh wait thats right EA has no say in what goes on in China so they pick on us instead!
Sounds just like a big corporation to me screwing over their customers.
I think I'll start playin my 360 again if this shyt keeps up where you have freedom speech and no jackasses hangin on every word treating a frikin adult game like its kindergarden
Bring back chopping off heads! UO is becoming too placid and politically correct and its ********...
~Time To Pay The Piper~
Just don't log in to tell her where to get the IRC client from... it'll just be more trouble.
Aes, I'm sorry if you think that it's an appropriate thing to have to say, "Go visit UO Guide, the link to it can be found at some attrociously long UO Fluff On Friday page, and I can't really tell you where to go find it otherwise, so go look for it there, because if I even hint to you that it's a .com and someone else overhears me, and decides to be a snivelling little jerk and page on me for 'advertising a non-UO site,' the GM that answers will come suspend me for 24-hours, and then, because I had an incident of not listening to a GM 8 years ago, he'll probably ban my account too, so I'm not going to bother telling you that it is a .com, et cetera, ad nauseum," I'm sorry.
I'm also sorry if you think EA/Mythic's current policy is appropriate.
It's not.
Basara
UO Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Uhh, JC - isn't my idea a "discrete item shop" by definition?
And, While I understand the desire to not use banners (and I agree with the sentiment of not using 3rd-party banner ads completely, as you would not have any control over the safety of the material), you should at least make the attempt to get indirect funding via EA ads (the only 100% guaranteed way to fail is to not try at all), as at least with them, there would be direct accountability.
Oh and I too oppose the current URL restrictions in terms of fan sites, and think that Cal & the others need to wake up and realizing they are asking the established UO communities to not do things that pages they list on their WAR & DOAC pages do, with their apparent blessing.
And, While I understand the desire to not use banners (and I agree with the sentiment of not using 3rd-party banner ads completely, as you would not have any control over the safety of the material), you should at least make the attempt to get indirect funding via EA ads (the only 100% guaranteed way to fail is to not try at all), as at least with them, there would be direct accountability.
Oh and I too oppose the current URL restrictions in terms of fan sites, and think that Cal & the others need to wake up and realizing they are asking the established UO communities to not do things that pages they list on their WAR & DOAC pages do, with their apparent blessing.
A
Amathist of PoC
Guest
The same way any other fan site or guild site do...this will not be a popular view, but there are a number of free hosting sites and forums out there. JC could have chose to use those rather then pay for a domain that choice was his there for he should support it if that is his desire.
The PoC site is on a free/pay site (guild portal) and I pay for it as that was my choice to use it, I do not ask for money from my guild or anyone else and would not as it was my choice to put the site where I did, I could have used a free site.
The rules are pretty clear and there to protect - who is to say that donations he claims are used to maintain the site are? not saying there not but how can EA be sure of that?
This is a copy of a post from the lost lands, it may or may not help.
A
Anjeel
Guest
I'd say anyone that has known JC for any length of time
A
Amathist of PoC
Guest
But that is not everyone that is not ALL the UO community that is not all EA staff that is his circle of friends and acquaintances.
He could be a genuine straight up guy, not saying he isnt what I am saying is how do EA know he is and how do EA know everyone else that wants to take dontations for there community site just like JC does is?
A
Anjeel
Guest
The same could be said for just about anything. So what is the point of anything really. Cant trust a soul in the world except yourself really......
A
Amathist of PoC
Guest
correct you can not trust anyone really not with 100% certainty so that is why the rules are put into place to protect everyone equally and not make special exceptions for one site over an other.
The same could be said for just about anything. So what is the point of anything really. Cant trust a soul in the world except yourself really......
A
Anjeel
Guest
haha. But you see, therein lies the hypocrisy. Stratics has special exceptions
Would all this still be an issue if we had approved fan sites back? Just curious. As it stands people have to realize that Jeremy did not come in here and make up this policy nor did she single handedly decide to enforce it. She is the liason and this is not an easy situation to mediate.
Perhaps if we all sent in our feedback using the correct form and asked for approved fan sites back to make it easier to facilitate knowledge of UO to other players. In the meantime I will happily refer to these helpful sites without the .com or suggest the FoF link at uo.com.
Perhaps if we all sent in our feedback using the correct form and asked for approved fan sites back to make it easier to facilitate knowledge of UO to other players. In the meantime I will happily refer to these helpful sites without the .com or suggest the FoF link at uo.com.
No. The way it used to be was someone messaged me for the item, they sent me money and I gave them item. All done. Now you are proposing that I go through the trouble of setting up a network and advertising sales. Then I have to worry about scamming because these aren't just my items, they are ones people donated. It would not be fun to know that all your donations were lost because someone scammed them.
No free host is going to put up with a website with UOGuide's level of traffic. UOGuide practically needs its own dedicated server at this point. Those go for over $100 per month.Amathist of PoC said: