~ IMPORTANT - Notice of upcoming change to Stratics network policy ~

[_zigzag_]

I wanted to give the Stratics UO community a heads-up regarding an upcoming change to our policy governing the posting of UO items for sale in return for real world currency.

In the past, UO Stratics has allowed people to use our forums as a medium to sell items for RL money via posts or links, and we have also allowed forum avatars and signatures to be used as a means to attract buyers and/or sellers.

This policy will soon be changing.

Our new policy will be to prohibit the advertising and promoting of player to player transactions for cash.

This will include links to, and signatures advertising or linking to sites or sales of items for real money.


So in a nutshell, unless its an official company site offering items etc. - for example uogamecodes.com, or UO Power Up Enhanced Player Services, it will not be allowed.

For those of you this change will affect, please make any adjustments to your signatures or avatars - anything that will not be in line with the new policy.

Thanks everyone! Please feel free to PM me or post any questions!

 

[PASmountaindew]

Well let me be the first to say *woot* *woot*. I am glad this is happening. All hail the *ZigZag* and Brekkee and Gallahan :bowdown:

 

[Redxpanda]

While i myself may or may not have used these services in the past, i always believed that it had no place here. Kudos for getting that straight.

 

[Blesh]

So something that is completely legal as per the ultima online TOS is now illegal to do on these forums?

I can see all the people moving to uoforums.com now..

::shakes head and walks away::

 

[Farsight]

Keeping it short...

Thank you for this policy change.

 

[concernedplayer]

I wanted to give the Stratics UO community a heads-up regarding an upcoming change to our policy governing the posting of UO items for sale in return for real world currency.

In the past, UO Stratics has allowed people to use our forums as a medium to sell items for RL money via posts or links, and we have also allowed forum avatars and signatures to be used as a means to attract buyers and/or sellers.

This policy will soon be changing.

Our new policy will be to prohibit the advertising and promoting of player to player transactions for cash.

This will include links to, and signatures advertising or linking to sites or sales of items for real money.


So in a nutshell, unless its an official company site offering items etc. - for example uogamecodes.com, or UO Power Up Enhanced Player Services, it will not be allowed.

For those of you this change will affect, please make any adjustments to your signatures or avatars - anything that will not be in line with the new policy.

Thanks everyone! Please feel free to PM me or post any questions!

Question and observation ...

Question ... you can't link to a website that sells gold?, I understand that. So that means nobody can mention Uoguide anymore because they have an item shop? (Unless of course they remove all reference to selling stuff).

If the website doesn't sell gold, but links to websites that sell gold, can you still mention that website here? Because then nobody could mention Whispering Rose Radio website anymore.

And if you can link to a website, that does not sell gold, but links to other websites that sell gold ... isn't that just going to be the next thing everyone is going to do? (i.e. link to a website that has some random UO related info but links to their own gold sales site)

Just wondering.

 

[concernedplayer]

So something that is completely legal as per the ultima online TOS is now illegal to do on these forums?

I can see all the people moving to uoforums.com now..

::shakes head and walks away::

What is really really funny ... is that UO itself links direct to Whispering Rose Radio just about every single week rofl

Hey wait a minute ... there's a link on stratics homepage entitled "From our Friends at UOGuide", its linking direct to a website that sells gold! Favoritism I tell you!!!

Actually, I like the rule ... I just have too much fun pointing this kind of stuff out.

 

[Basara]

So something that is completely legal as per the ultima online TOS is now illegal to do on these forums?

I can see all the people moving to uoforums.com now..

::shakes head and walks away::

You might want to read the UO TOS again...... it's not as "completely legal" as you might think. sorta like the difference between waking naked around the house, and walking naked to the corner mailbox... You may not be charged with a crime, if no one sees you doing it, and it would be difficult to stop you should you insist on doing it - but it's definitely discouraged.

 

[FrejaSP]

Good to see this happen

 

[_zigzag_]

Question and observation ...

Question ... you can't link to a website that sells gold?, I understand that. So that means nobody can mention Uoguide anymore because they have an item shop? (Unless of course they remove all reference to selling stuff).

If the website doesn't sell gold, but links to websites that sell gold, can you still mention that website here? Because then nobody could mention Whispering Rose Radio website anymore.

And if you can link to a website, that does not sell gold, but links to other websites that sell gold ... isn't that just going to be the next thing everyone is going to do? (i.e. link to a website that has some random UO related info but links to their own gold sales site)

Just wondering.

If I link to site A and site A sells items for cash, its bad.

If I link to site A, and site A has ads for sites that sell items for cash, it's probably fine. We're not policing any sites advertising policy

 

[PASmountaindew]

For those that don't know where to find what Basara was talking about...

From the UO Terms of Service

(c) Rights. You acknowledge and agree that all characters created, and items acquired and developed as a result of game play are part of the Software and Service and are the sole property of Electronic Arts. You acknowledge that: (i) the Software and the Service permit access to Content that is protected by copyrights, trademarks, and other proprietary rights owned by Electronic Arts or Content Providers (collectively, "Rights"), and (ii) these Rights are valid and protected in all media existing now or later developed, and (iii) except as is explicitly provided otherwise, your use of Content shall be governed by the copyright laws of the United States and other applicable laws. You agree that you may upload or otherwise transmit on or through the Service only Content that is not subject to any Rights, or Content in which any holder of Rights has given express authorization for distribution on the Service. By submitting Content to any area on the Service, you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Electronic Arts the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed for the full term including any renewal term of any Rights that may exist in such Content.

And rule #8 of the Ultima Online Service Rules of Conduct

8. With the exception of the sale of in-game items for in-game items or services, you may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) through the Ultima Online service or Ultima Online web site.

 

[Basara]

Notes on TOS Rule 8.

With the exception of the sale of in-game items for in-game items or services, you may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) through the Ultima Online service or Ultima Online web site.

*****

Now, while that doesn't directly SAY you can't sell in-game items for RL money, you violate the rule from RL cash sales because you STILL have to log into the game to make the transfer of goods, thereby making it an in-game transaction of the prohibited variety (I.E. NOT for other in-game items or services).

 

[_zigzag_]

wait a minute

This is not about EA's ToS for UO.

This is about Stratics decision to prohibit our forums being used as a place to conduct player to player transactions of in-game items for cash.

Nothing more

 

[Lady Aalia]

THANK YOU

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

 

[concernedplayer]

wait a minute

This is not about EA's ToS for UO.

This is about Stratics decision to prohibit our forums being used as a place to conduct player to player transactions of in-game items for cash.

Nothing more

In that case, yay ... very straight forward no-bs answer.

Still have a questions though ...

UOGuide is a website which, when people link to it, usually isn't for the purpose of making sales. However, it is still directly linking to a website that has sales. So it is ok to link to a website that has sales ... when the primary purpose for linking to them isn't involving sales?

And also what about websites that do not sell directly, but have links to 6 or so major gold sellers on their homepage (i.e. Whispering Rose Radio). Can you link to a website that links to other websites that sell gold, even if they don't sell gold themselves?

 

[_zigzag_]

In that case, yay ... very straight forward no-bs answer.

Still have a questions though ...

UOGuide is a website which, when people link to it, usually isn't for the purpose of making sales. However, it is still directly linking to a website that has sales. So it is ok to link to a website that has sales ... when the primary purpose for linking to them isn't involving sales?

And also what about websites that do not sell directly, but have links to 6 or so major gold sellers on their homepage (i.e. Whispering Rose Radio). Can you link to a website that links to other websites that sell gold, even if they don't sell gold themselves?

The examples you give here are basically the same. Neither site is in the business of selling items for cash.

Policing who a site chooses to accept advertising (banners ads, etc.) from is waaayyyy out of our jurisdiction

Edited to add:

It's about intent, kinda...if that makes sense.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

A timely decision.

 

[PASmountaindew]

So something that is completely legal as per the ultima online TOS is now illegal to do on these forums?

I can see all the people moving to uoforums.com now..

::shakes head and walks away::

*ZigZag* the above quote was why the EA and UO ToS and Rules of Conduct were mentioned. It was in response to something Blesh said.

 

[_zigzag_]

A timely decision.

Not as timely as imagined...I have been debating this issue for 5 years now

 

[_zigzag_]

*ZigZag* the above quote was why the EA and UO ToS and Rules of Conduct were mentioned. It was in response to something Blesh said.

Ya...I just want everyone to understand we're not debating *anything* here regarding how the ToS are interpreted

I wasn't being gnarly hehe

I read the same words everyone does but they may mean something different to me...and we could debate the meaning of words forrrrrr eveh!

 

[Andrasta]

Thank you!! Great Decision!

 

[PoCove]

I like it .. Like it alot ... thanks for the updates ..

 

[Halister Marner]

Finally!

Once you get your news system up and running I may have to apply for reporter again.

 

[Oriana]

YaY!!! A fantastic bit of news. *gets out warning stick and reviews her domains*

Ok I'm not that mean, but I've always hated that we allowed that.
BTW Zig, when does this new policy kick in for certain?

Ori

 

[RenaLynne]

I think this is a good idea.

 

[yanaki2]

i know this is might offend people but you are making a very big mistake. this game is not nearly as powerfull as wow as to being able to afford to whipe out the purchasing of items, gold ect. its one of the few things keeping this game around. limiting the actions of whats left of the uo community is this action with further discourage players. you also will never be able to fully eliminate all the sellers out there so doing this is just another affront to the people using this forum. i remember when tradespot did this many years ago(stopping everyone but there people from selling items for cash or selling gold), the month after it was implemented the people freqenting the board dropped to less then 10% of what it was the month before. now i dont sell anything for cash never have, never will. i very very rarely buy anything for cash so its not like this will affect me too much if at all. but there will be some effected. and you will lose people. just my 2 cents.


ohh and why is this such a big deal that you need to interfere in peoples interactions anyway? big brother at work again...

 

[_zigzag_]

i know this is might offend people but you are making a very big mistake. this game is not nearly as powerfull as wow as to being able to afford to whipe out the purchasing of items, gold ect. its one of the few things keeping this game around. limiting the actions of whats left of the uo community is this action with further discourage players. you also will never be able to fully eliminate all the sellers out there so doing this is just another affront to the people using this forum. i remember when tradespot did this many years ago(stopping everyone but there people from selling items for cash or selling gold), the month after it was implemented the people freqenting the board dropped to less then 10% of what it was the month before. now i dont sell anything for cash never have, never will. i very very rarely buy anything for cash so its not like this will affect me too much if at all. but there will be some effected. and you will lose people. just my 2 cents.


ohh and why is this such a big deal that you need to interfere in peoples interactions anyway? big brother at work again...

No offense taken

Our decision to make this move is based also partially on our commitment to building a healthy UO Community.

We don't wish to be a means for people to get ripped off any longer. That's it in a nutshell. No big brother...no government conspiracy...just Stratics making a decision regarding this issue.

 

[Shamus Turlough]

I for one, as a veteran player and long time stratics poster, thank you ZigZag, and the rest of the stratics staff. This has been a needed change for a while now. Let me be one of the first to applaud you for taking an ethical stance to provide us as players of Ultima Online a community where we can enjoy ourselves.

 

[Lucy of Kenton]

I would say fantastic and about time too but hell im a lotro girl now!
strangely i feel that the people who sell stuff for rl money are behind the cheating and duping etc and if they couldnt make money from it they would just leave and attack another game.
i really gotta get out of the habit of caring about uo!!!!! but ea clearly dont, just make sure its enforced on here as ea wont in game

 

[Halister Marner]

I would say fantastic and about time too but hell im a lotro girl now!
strangely i feel that the people who sell stuff for rl money are behind the cheating and duping etc and if they couldnt make money from it they would just leave and attack another game.
i really gotta get out of the habit of caring about uo!!!!! but ea clearly dont, just make sure its enforced on here as ea wont in game

Just as a general hint, 90% of the major gold sellers worked directly with dupers, or were dupers themselves. So yes, they are the core of the problem. Some had their accounts banned, others haven't yet, but I can say with complete confidence and evidence that the vast majority of brokers were gladly and knowingly providing dupes to their customers.

Just something to chew on when thinking about Stratics decision.

 

[Magdalene]

Alleluyah, brother!

 

[Arcus]

Great step int the right direction. Bravo!

 

[Mirage]

Great step int the right direction. Bravo!

Terrible step!! I hate you Stratics!! LoL

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Save UO - Save the cheerleaders ... (AesSedai 10/31/07)

 

[Zofinur]

Our new policy will be to prohibit the advertising and promoting of player to player transactions for cash.

Coming late but its still much appreciated!
Mixing a game with a method to make RL-cash (except for EA) felt always wrong.

 

[Nok]

Hi *zigzag*,

Our new policy will be to prohibit the advertising and promoting of player to player transactions for cash.

This is a good policy change, good for the community as a whole.

News item - Stratics Network Policy Change.
News item - Change to the Stratics RoC.

 

[Minerva Foxglove]

Best news in a looong while!

 

[_zigzag_]

It's here folks.

Please make sure any signatures and/or links are changed to meet the new RoC.

If anyone has questions, feel free to PM me!

 

[Lord Kynd]

Well let me be the first to say *woot* *woot*. I am glad this is happening. All hail the *ZigZag* and Brekkee and Gallahan :bowdown:

i've been on this 'bandwagon' for a long time, great move stratic's admin's
about friggin' time.

so what finally changed your minds ?
could it be the fact that people who abuse the system are the one's who sell 99% of stuff?

and this only effects items for cash right ?
not items for gold or items for trade for other item's ?

 

[Lord Kynd]

Question and observation ...

Question ... you can't link to a website that sells gold?, I understand that. So that means nobody can mention Uoguide anymore because they have an item shop? (Unless of course they remove all reference to selling stuff).

If the website doesn't sell gold, but links to websites that sell gold, can you still mention that website here? Because then nobody could mention Whispering Rose Radio website anymore.

And if you can link to a website, that does not sell gold, but links to other websites that sell gold ... isn't that just going to be the next thing everyone is going to do? (i.e. link to a website that has some random UO related info but links to their own gold sales site)

Just wondering.

i just hope they are extreamly dilligent on checking signature links and sites to make sure people are not being sneaky.
i see alot of links to sites that host a variety of stuff, alot of for sale for cash stuff.

for the sellers there are plenty of sites they can go to to use.

 

[_zigzag_]

and this only effects items for cash right ?
not items for gold or items for trade for other item's ?

Yes, cash sales only.
Our trade forums will continue. Players can trade items for items, items for gold.

 

[Lord Kynd]

The examples you give here are basically the same. Neither site is in the business of selling items for cash.

Policing who a site chooses to accept advertising (banners ads, etc.) from is waaayyyy out of our jurisdiction

Edited to add:

It's about intent, kinda...if that makes sense.

so that meens Zig that all these banners on stratics are going to change ?
alot of them link to sites that sell stuff for cash.

personally i think that if one person can not advertise in any way shape or form, then why is it ok for someone else to do the opposit ?

if i got to say whispering rose and they host a link to a place i can buy things for cash then they are essentially breaking your rule.

i don't see how this can be disputed.

now we need a thread that list's all the 'safe' sites...

and another with one's that are not 'safe'.

now i can't even tell someone to go check uoguide for information because stratic's is soooooo outdated... simply because uoguide sells stuff for cash also on the side..

also selling or donations made by purchasing items for cash are the same thing. charity should not be let allowed to slide past this new rule either.


i really hope that if you are serious about this that you do it right and complete.
stratic's has been loosing it's 'power over the players' for years now. mostly becuase of a few over-zelious bad Mod's.

which reminds me i near forgot zig, there is something we need to discuss still.. it's just on my back burner for now ..

 

[Kat]

I think this is probably a good policy, but I do have a question. Does this policy apply to PM conversations? Say... Someone has an account or a weapon for sale for UO gold and someone PM's an offer to buy for RL cash and the seller accepts? If that would also be prohibited, how would you police that type of thing? Just curious.

 

[Lord Kynd]

No offense taken

Our decision to make this move is based also partially on our commitment to building a healthy UO Community.

like you stated earlier , 5 years you have been thinking about this,
now it's kinda late, the damage is done by these people

we can just hope it will help re-build what was lost in the 5 years

not that people selling things is your fault anyhow, stratics was just used as a portal for free advertising.
wait some banners paid to advertise right ? guess not 100% for some.

 

[Lord Kynd]

I think this is probably a good policy, but I do have a question. Does this policy apply to PM conversations? If so, how would you police that type of thing? Just curious.

omg i hope so, if not i can see it now, getting spammed here worse than in my e-mail bin... arrrrgggg

 

[Lord Kynd]

Yes, cash sales only.
Our trade forums will continue. Players can trade items for items, items for gold.

cool

 

[Kat]

Dangit! I should have known someone would quote me before I was done editing! lol

 

[Amber Moon]

You might want to read the UO TOS again...... it's not as "completely legal" as you might think. sorta like the difference between waking naked around the house, and walking naked to the corner mailbox... You may not be charged with a crime, if no one sees you doing it, and it would be difficult to stop you should you insist on doing it - but it's definitely discouraged.

Way back in the day, when decisions about in game gold for cash was first made, Richard Garriott made public statements to the effect that gold for cash trading was fine and that became policy. I am sure if you search long and hard enough, you might even still find these somewhere.

Since that time, the TOS has changed many times but to my knowledge there has never been a public statement by anyone connected to the game stating the practice was against TOS. If you have such a statement, it would surely enlighten us all to see it.

For right or wrong this has been the legacy of UO since that time and certainly shaped the way the game is perceived and played.

I would also suggest that if that policy changes that it is not all that clear who the winners and losers are. Policing the game seems difficult to impossible now. Likely more so with such a policy change if other MMOs are any example.

 

[Bazer]

All Hail Zigzag, the one who Knows what to Do!!

 

[Prince Erik]

I also add a big thank you for this. It's 5 years overdue IMHO.

-P.E.