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Time will tell whether too drastic and harsh rules will make Felucca even more a wasteland as it currently is or repopulate it....
Personally, if the rules have changed into making someone freely attackable anywhere, anytime under the Felucca ruleset, I fear that even those few which so far were going occasionally to Felucca for some resources gathering or some other occasional task, will now stay well away from it making that facet even more of a deserted wasteland....
Should that happen, I just hope that noone will then come to Stratics Forums to complain that Felucca is void of people ......
Want changes that will result in Felucca being even more deserted ? Fine, but then please do not complain that hardly anyone is around Felucca....
Hold it.
Are you saying that a player NOT in VvV is ONLY attackable in Felucca "if" he/she had previously been in VvV, then resigned, and withing 3 days from resigning ?
That is, after 4 days from resigning a player NOT in VvV any longer would NOT be attackable in Felucca under the VvV ruleset ?
Did I understand it right ?
Orange, turning Perm Orange because as a blue, you stayed in a VvV battle town too long. If your blue, all the rules are the same. If you make the mistake as a blue of staying in a VvV war zone too long, you turn perma ogange and seem to be freely attackable anywhere in Fel. Town or not. So in the 'Oh No, I'm Perma Orange' scenario, instead of suicide and having to find a VvV stat loss potion, make a guild, join VvV and resign from VvV. I did all of that AND resigned from the guild I made. And according to Kyronix in post above, that solves it in 3 days
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@Petra Fyde I know Stratics is working on the Publish 86 documentation and it's wildly time consuming. But this situation of being just in a battle zone as a blue needs to be documented and confirmed by the devs. Also what your options are to correct the mistake and go on with your UO life. Suicide and stat loss is not the most attractive solution. People need to know before it happens to them and what their options are after.
I've never gotten one that had to be Fel. Is it Occlo?
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LMAO I am a dumb***
I did not see the crate that says take it to Yew, I only saw the fence parchment and I thought that was what I was supposed to deliver.
I did not see the crate that says take it to Yew, I only saw the fence parchment and I thought that was what I was supposed to deliver.
Are all fel towns affected? I mean can VvV affect any town? Papua? Occlo? Serpent's Hold? Or just the old faction towns?
Seems to be all the old faction towns, though Ocllo replaces New Magincia due to the housing situation.
I have a fundamental concern about blues in Fel being tagged orange just for being in a VvV active city. In my opinion, you should have to take an offensive action against a VvV character before you flag orange for all VvV. If you don't aggress, then you should be able to complete your trade quest or other business with normal ability to give murder counts.
They are also using Jhelom for VvV, presumably in place of Vesper.
Siege Example:
A) After reading Poo's message, I decided to do one of the merchant quests just to check it out and add some gold to the treasury. I'm not in V&V. I had already been in Jhelom for a good 20 minutes trying to figure out where and how to get the quest. After getting my quest in Jhelom for 5 raw chicken legs, I scratch my head (can't remember the last time I was ever in the market for raw chicken legs) and try to remember where they are sold. No problem... I hide and open a web browser overlap it a bit so I would see any incoming players. Upon coming back after doing a minute or so surfing, I notice a journal entry I am now attackable. No other player showed in the journal. No spells were casted by me. I just happen to be hanging around when it started.
B) Ok... Off to a house far outside of Jhelom to do some checks. I log in with another account to check colors. The second account is also not in V&V. I'm blue to myself. The other account also seen my character as blue. All is at peace with the world.
C) Next, I take the second account and create a guild and join that character into V&V, then take a look at the raw chicken leg hunting character. Bingo... he is now a nice shade of Orange to the new V&V member. The non-V&V character as been drafted into the war with an armed box of raw chicken legs.
D) I take the newly joined V&V member and kill the non-V&V member shouting something about wanting cooked hot wings.
E) My non-V&V member dies. He runs out to a handy healer stalking the house, and returns. Once again he is blue to the V&V member. No murder prompt came up. After a brief stat loss period all is at peace with the world.
For a production shard, you will be able to reset yourself back to blue (if you catch the message and realize your Orange) for the price of insurance money (zero if you run a naked character into a V&V hot spots with a box of raw chick legs). On Siege, it may cost your full suit if you are not aware of or didn't catch the message in your journal or on your screen.
A) After reading Poo's message, I decided to do one of the merchant quests just to check it out and add some gold to the treasury. I'm not in V&V. I had already been in Jhelom for a good 20 minutes trying to figure out where and how to get the quest. After getting my quest in Jhelom for 5 raw chicken legs, I scratch my head (can't remember the last time I was ever in the market for raw chicken legs) and try to remember where they are sold. No problem... I hide and open a web browser overlap it a bit so I would see any incoming players. Upon coming back after doing a minute or so surfing, I notice a journal entry I am now attackable. No other player showed in the journal. No spells were casted by me. I just happen to be hanging around when it started.
B) Ok... Off to a house far outside of Jhelom to do some checks. I log in with another account to check colors. The second account is also not in V&V. I'm blue to myself. The other account also seen my character as blue. All is at peace with the world.
C) Next, I take the second account and create a guild and join that character into V&V, then take a look at the raw chicken leg hunting character. Bingo... he is now a nice shade of Orange to the new V&V member. The non-V&V character as been drafted into the war with an armed box of raw chicken legs.
D) I take the newly joined V&V member and kill the non-V&V member shouting something about wanting cooked hot wings.
E) My non-V&V member dies. He runs out to a handy healer stalking the house, and returns. Once again he is blue to the V&V member. No murder prompt came up. After a brief stat loss period all is at peace with the world.
For a production shard, you will be able to reset yourself back to blue (if you catch the message and realize your Orange) for the price of insurance money (zero if you run a naked character into a V&V hot spots with a box of raw chick legs). On Siege, it may cost your full suit if you are not aware of or didn't catch the message in your journal or on your screen.
exactly.
so you've confirmed what i was saying.
so at least we know there is a cure for this silly plague we call orangeness.
just so we are all clear, you need to have the raw chicken leg quest and get someone to kill you in a cabin in the forest with a voyeur healer stalking you.
exactly.Well technically they did tell you. As you stated you chose not to read the notes on VvV because you assumed it didn't affect you.
i choose not to understand gravity so i can jump with a 14ft vertical.
because we all know if you ignore something it wont effect you.
You could just use the moongate and finish your quest in Trammel. There are still guards at the moongate.
I believe the teleport option will be a fine solusion. Don't make Felucca to Trammel
The problem is, you can block players in Felucca, there is no push trough. So blue could interact with blocking VvV players.
It would be only a temporary reset, until the NOT VvV character enters again a VvV Town, stays there for the handfull of seconds that the system requires, and gets again flagged orange and attackable.......
If it works this way, this means that VvV has effectively made felucca "off limits" to PvP non willing, NOT VvV players.......
Nope. A cure is something which rids the problem, period.
Getting oneself killed is only a temporary riddance of being orange flagged. Just enter a VvV Town again even right after resurrecting, and the whole things starts all over again getting again flagged orange and killable even if one is not willing to PvP and not in VvV.
The way it is now, as i understand it, it forces players into PvP and gets UO back into player killing again but without the annoyance of murder counts, stats loss and all that.......
Personally, I think it is going to make Felucca even more void of players as what it has been up to now........
At least before, Towns in Felucca were a safe heaven, Guards could be called on reds and reds/blues would get murder counts for their kills. Under VvV I seem to understand that unwilling players could be killed a go-go even if they did not join VvV and do not want to engage in active PvP and all this player killing, without any consequence to the killers....
I do not see this as good, it seems to me like we are going back to pre-Trammel era and player killing which got the game to loose lots of players....
Well, yes and no..... it all depends on the character's stamina. If one is at full stamina also in felucca one can push through.... at least I can.
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Virtue Cities in Fel and Tram
Not in Trammel, only in Felucca. If we get a butten to fly, when we get the warning, I see no big problem. For normal shards, just finish the quest in Trammel and problem solved.
For Siege, that's not an option but I can live with that, even when I don't agree with battle zones in Towns.
I certainly see your point and I see the sillyness of someone running though a VvV town and automatically becoming involved in the VvV battle against their will, but we would certainly be doing well to have the numbers we had back in those days... of player killing.
It wasn't the player killing the caused masses to leave the game, in fact the game grew its most substantial numbers during this period (the pre trammel era)... then peaked after the release of Trammel... and for the most part had slowly trickled down ever since. I would attribute the loss in players more so to unbalance, lack of support, bugs, scripting and the release of new online games.
It seems the reason for not allowing blues to hang around in VvV towns is that the blue players would be able to manipulate the battle without fear of being attacked by healing and supporting the VvV players, against other VvV players.
If you had two VvV players fighting, and one of those VvV players had two blues following them and healing them the whole time without being able to do anything about it, that would be exploitation of the system similar to when factions and non factions could be allied.
This is their way to preventing that.
Hang around and you are freely attackable.
Now this certainly doesn't mean that the system couldn't use some tweaking. A player should be able to easily tell whether or not they are attackable without having to log in another account, putting a char in VvV and and checking for themselves. There should be some sort of icon in the buff/debuff indication window letting you know that you are VvV attackable. Also it should wear off if you leave that town and do not perform and beneficial or negative actions against at VvV player.
In addition, the timer should be a bit longer for when you do become attackable or perhaps tie it to whether or not you have a trade quest.
The other day I was in an inactive fel VvV town. I had accepted my trade quest. Went to the middle of town to shop, and BAM, the town becomes besieged. So as soon as I got the warning gump, I immediately went to the docks, threw my boat in, and began sailing out. I then got caught in this huge array of water elementals and dolphins which seemed to all want to move directly in front of my ship blocking my every exit attempt. It definitely took longer than 30 seconds before I got out.
Now after reading above, I have no way to know whether or not I am perma-orange until I die to a VvV player as I have not yet come across one on that character to find out!
But yes the system will probably need some adjustments and we we learn those needed adjustments as this new system has a chance to sit in place for a while and issues get reported to the Dev team. This is a brand new thing never tried before so of course there will be hitches to overcome.
Posting these experiences like we are now is the way to attain that needed attention for any necessary fixes.
Unless you plan to deliver to Slim the fence, and not get whacked with the moongate penalty then you must use Felucca... and I believe that's an issue here.
I was PvPing and playing when we had Order/Chaos and the original factions pre-AOS. With a much larger active PvP population than this system will ever get. Push through just meant you carried total refresh potions
We managed just fine without someone flagging the entire city population for us. If these passive players are suddenly an issue, then the devs need to create better bases to contain the fights in an area only accessible to VvV players. Back in the day, if your base was outside town in the swamps or down by the crypts in Yew, the chances of disrupting ordinary Fel residents was minimal. Maybe the old dev teams were on to something with that idea If is not making Fel into Trammel if you leave innocent non-participating players out of this system. It's just leaving them with the same protection they have had for over a decade. My characters were able to carry on around the old factions and O/C systems without disruption, so I'm not accepting it now. Even teleporting me to a moongate is disruptive when I've done nothing wrong and I'm in the middle of doing something. It's ok if I'm in Skara and the moongate is at the edge of the city. But other gates like Yew and Britain are neither safe or convenient for the player.
Really, what's likely to happen is more players quit Fel because it's too disruptive to use those cities. So between battles these wonderful old towns are left empty and unused. That is heartbreaking to me. Fel was the original facet and now it's just a playground for the remaining PvPers at the expense of a roleplaying, crafting and PvMing community that has struggled to survive there all these years. I used to joke that I wouldn't quit till they turned the lights out on UO or nuked Fel. It looks like the latter just happened...
Wenchy
Even if they made it so that blue players could move freely in VvV towns and if they only became flagged orange based on beneficial/negative actions, there are still ways the non VvV player could manipulate the fight by using fields, stam blocking, ward removal talismans etc. Now THAT would hurt the system. Eliminating as much of the factor of non participate abuse will play a huge role in whether this program succeeds or not.
I wonder about another situation: Some of my gift collectors on old shards are old enough to use the hospitality of inns in Felucca towns. They are often overloaded (given the heavy gift package from this year the chance has very increased), and/or unable to run, recall or gate anywhere.
So what happens to those, if they login to get their gifts, while the town is VvV enabled?
So what happens to those, if they login to get their gifts, while the town is VvV enabled?
The moongates have their own individual guard zones.
Yeah, but I'd like to not have to worry about using the bank... People WILL attack me. I've been getting attacked all morning while doing trade deal runs. It's not HUGE deal, but it is awful annoying.
Couldn't you just make the orange tag on a timer? Like... a day? I don't understand why the flag is permanent. It's annoying that I have to find someone to kill me (which I don't care to do) because I couldn't get out of town in 30 seconds, just so I can use the bank again without being on high alert.
I get the idea here, but really the only people who are effected by this are people simply trying to do the trade quests.
I've read the patch notes several times now and don't understand the logic. If I select to join VvV and join as Virtue, do I still flag Orange to other VvV Virtue players that are not in my guild/Alliance? If this is the case, it's not really VvV, it's more like Guild/Alliance vs the world. Maybe I'm missing something...
If you're a dev and you don't want outsiders interfering with a battle, you probably shouldn't plonk the battle area right in the centre of the only populated area in that facet
Telling players to get out or be flagged for using a city as a city is silly. I can't understand why it's acceptable to treat the non VvV players like the enemy, or something to shove to the side. Don't PvPers have enough of Fel on their terms already? These poor little VvV PvPers are better equipped and skilled than I ever was when I PvP'd, yet I didn't ask for this level of protection. If they can't cope with a passing tailor or a few interfering blues, they are the ones who should move to Tram, not us. My tailor isn't going to sew PvPers to the city gates, or stitch up their potty mouths.If this program succeeds it does so at the expense of the rest of the residents and visitors to Fel, and I don't rate that as a success if we're the casualties. One of the reasons I was able to attract newbies into Fel and get them confident enough to try PvP was assuring them that if they were in cities it was safer. Had they felt that nowhere was safe, I'd never have managed it. VvV is going to need all its luck attracting new players with this setup:-
"Welcome to Fel. Flag or GTFO!"
*corp por*
Wenchy
VvV is nothing more than removing murder counts and guard zones through the back door and calling it something else. You know, like when they say 'gun safety' when they really mean 'gun control.'
But on Siege, if guards are turned off, reds will attack anyway.
If you plan to take your trade order to Slim the Fence, New Magincia is not a VvV city.
So basically there isn't a Virtue or Vice Team? You sign up for VvV and are now considered freely attackable by anyone not in your guild or alliance anywhere in Fel. I had originally thought you would sign up as either for Virtue or for Vice but this is not the case. Very confusing IMO...
The Mysterious Note I got said Slim is in Ocllo, Nujelm. or Serpent Hold.
Not New Magincia.
Also the places to deliver the trader chest are all in the back of the citys by the docks.
No gate casting to get away with a chest in your backpack.
No Tram on my shard. : )
Not New Magincia.
Also the places to deliver the trader chest are all in the back of the citys by the docks.
No gate casting to get away with a chest in your backpack.
No Tram on my shard. : )
You can leave from New Magincia though and take them to those cities, rather than having to enter an RvR city to start the quest.
Correlation is not causation. UO had no competition like today, so as the main game in town, of course it grew. Yet there were a lot who quit in frustration over going to a dungeon and getting ganked right away by l33t d00dz (even without Uzi bows and other cheats of the time). I should know, I had friends (RL as well as guildmates) who tried UO for a month, then wondered why they wasted $50 on the box and $10 per month. They were simply offset by new players, and those who started opening multiple accounts.
Don't you remember the big question asked when EQ was announced? "Will it have a PvP switch?" It's always been an important issue.
I thought Slim the Fence was a Felucca only character and New Magincia is a Trammel Town.... the Felucca equivalent of New Magincia would be Occlo.
It is not so ?
There's a New Magincia in Felucca as well.
The Trammel equivalent of Ocllo is New Haven... As Kyronix said, there's a New Magincia in Felucca as well...
I never wanted any of the Slim the Fence rares. I mean the mempo? But this means if you are blue and want the smuggler title or Slim's rares, your only option to not get VvV whacked is to do Fel New Mag offers and float to Occlo? Wow, that's really restricted!
Not all the cities have the VvV rules at the same time. Theoretically you could still go from other cities, you simply run the risk of running into a battle unless you have someone opted into VvV in your guild, in whichcase you get the messages and can plan around them.
Still restrictive. And I got yet another wooded nickel that says people will still be doing Trade offers for pinks long after VvV is just a memory.
Right but I'm perma orange everywhere right now, not just in vvv cities which is not great.