Fractuals

[Sevin0oo0]

I've been wondering about some of the art, more over animations, I'm thinking it's not as simple as some may think.
Take the goblin alchemist explosion potions - the big flame flash - you just draw that don't you?

drawn with CODE, similar to:

#include <iostream>
#include <cmath>
#include <vector>

using namespace std;

// Change params only in this block
namespace {
const int width = 1600;
const int height = 1200;
const int frames = 10000;
const int iters = 10000;
const int skipIters = 10;

double sensitivity = 0.02;

const double minX = -4.0;
const double minY = minX * height / width;

const double maxX = 4.0;
const double maxY = maxX * height / width;

const double minA = acos( 1.6 / 2.0 );
const double maxA = acos( 1.3 / 2.0 );

const double minB = acos( -0.6 / 2.0 );
const double maxB = acos( 1.7 / 2.0 );

const double minC = acos( -1.2 / 2.0 );
const double maxC = acos( 0.5 / 2.0 );

const double minD = acos( 1.6 / 2.0 );
const double maxD = acos( 1.4 / 2.0 );
};


Good lord man, that's like assembling a mini-application. Is this a big of a pain as it looks?

 

[Viquire]

Grim was working on weapons animations recently. I think it has been a week since I have seen him update us on that effort though.

 

[Pinco]

Grim was working on weapons animations recently. I think it has been a week since I have seen him update us on that effort though.

maybe is doing something cool like adding a special animation for every special attack
... or just fixing the crossbow animation while fighting with a leafblade and riding...

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

I've been wondering about some of the art, more over animations, I'm thinking it's not as simple as some may think.
Take the goblin alchemist explosion potions - the big flame flash - you just draw that don't you?

drawn with CODE, similar to:

#include <iostream>
#include <cmath>
#include <vector>

using namespace std;

// Change params only in this block
namespace {
const int width = 1600;
const int height = 1200;
const int frames = 10000;
const int iters = 10000;
const int skipIters = 10;

double sensitivity = 0.02;

const double minX = -4.0;
const double minY = minX * height / width;

const double maxX = 4.0;
const double maxY = maxX * height / width;

const double minA = acos( 1.6 / 2.0 );
const double maxA = acos( 1.3 / 2.0 );

const double minB = acos( -0.6 / 2.0 );
const double maxB = acos( 1.7 / 2.0 );

const double minC = acos( -1.2 / 2.0 );
const double maxC = acos( 0.5 / 2.0 );

const double minD = acos( 1.6 / 2.0 );
const double maxD = acos( 1.4 / 2.0 );
};


Good lord man, that's like assembling a mini-application. Is this a big of a pain as it looks?

On the engineering side of things, it's colossal. I think those flame animations you're talking about are animated tile art- which is a walk in park compared to our mobiles animation system.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Grim was working on weapons animations recently. I think it has been a week since I have seen him update us on that effort though.

Yup working on all animations. Things have just been slow going due to the current demands. Right now I'm in a sort of rendering phase, this is the part that takes a long time.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

maybe is doing something cool like adding a special animation for every special attack
... or just fixing the crossbow animation while fighting with a leafblade and riding...

ROFL. oh maaaan! An animation for EVERY special attack??? Wow!


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[Sevin0oo0]

An animation for EVERY special attack???

How about just a few? the fancier dynamic ones...
some might look goofy and WoW'ish with effects
ones like dbl strike should stay pretty much sound only, imo - the char could flash a hue for 1-1.25 second or something denoting they did something
Hit Area - lightly hued, semi-transparent circular flash cloud around the character
whirlwind - Jump/spin circular swing effect

Thinking of something... something visible about the character, or its hue, during the bandage timer would be nice instead of watching the timer or icon

 

[Pinco]

How about just a few? the fancier dynamic ones...
some might look goofy and WoW'ish with effects
ones like dbl strike should stay pretty much sound only, imo - the char could flash a hue for 1-1.25 second or something denoting they did something
Hit Area - lightly hued, semi-transparent circular flash cloud around the character
whirlwind - Jump/spin circular swing effect

Thinking of something... something visible about the character, or its hue, during the bandage timer would be nice instead of watching the timer or icon

actually just whirlwind and frenzy whirlwind should have something interesting to see... the other moves are just normal blows with different effects
unless you don't want to make bleed attack that transform in a blood fountain the enemy

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

actually just whirlwind and frenzy whirlwind should have something interesting to see... the other moves are just normal blows with different effects
unless you don't want to make bleed attack that transform in a blood fountain the enemy

Possibly in time. Keeping in mind that adding a new animation meanings that I'd need to render that animation for every piece of equipment in UO... And the new anims wouldn't show up in the Classic client. :-(


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[Pinco]

Possibly in time. Keeping in mind that adding a new animation meanings that I'd need to render that animation for every piece of equipment in UO... And the new anims wouldn't show up in the Classic client. :-(


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

yes, it's an insane work... (all the armor pieces + the related weapon + shields) x 3 races
Better a particle that gives the idea of it

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Stop using outdated sprites in the EC, then you can add all the crazy animations anyone wants.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Stop using outdated sprites in the EC, then you can add all the crazy animations anyone wants.

I wish.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

yes, it's an insane work... (all the armor pieces + the related weapon + shields) x 3 races
Better a particle that gives the idea of it

Hehe. Classic client doesn't support particle FX, but yea, that would make the most sense.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I wish.

As art guru, couldn't you push for this? The EC is more than capable of rendering lush 3D, why the archaic choice to use sprites instead of polygonal mobiles? (Third Dawn was a complete eyesore, but that was due to horrendously low poly counts and low-res textures) You obviously use 3D models to make the sprites, why the added work? If "nostalgia" is somewhere in your answer, it's the wrong answer...

 

[Pinco]

As art guru, couldn't you push for this? The EC is more than capable of rendering lush 3D, why the archaic choice to use sprites instead of polygonal mobiles? (Third Dawn was a complete eyesore, but that was due to horrendously low poly counts and low-res textures) You obviously use 3D models to make the sprites, why the added work? If "nostalgia" is somewhere in your answer, it's the wrong answer...

it's no more a fact of nostalgia... they made their choice when they designed KR, and now they must keep that way because passing to 3d models means rewrite a good part of the client (without counting the drawing of all the models and related textures).

 

[sh1nji]

for me uo dont need become a 3d game, but i loved how kr art work, i dont know why but when i played uo with kr client i felt the game more live, maybe the reason for it are light but i dont have sure, but now when i play with ec the stuff fell death.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I thought that the decision for KR/EC mobiles to use the older stop-motion method of the 2d client (with more frames) was a bad idea as well considering that full 3d modelling would have allowed for SO MUCH more with far less effort, but I'm guessing that the thinking was that by using the same method for each client they'd be able to back-port new creatures from the EC back to 2d without having the weird issues that were present with Third Dawn models used in the 2d client.

But by the same token, aren't we far enough along in 3d technology that this really isn't an issue any longer? We're not restricted to stupidly low poly-count models the way we were in 2001.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

As art guru, couldn't you push for this? The EC is more than capable of rendering lush 3D, why the archaic choice to use sprites instead of polygonal mobiles? (Third Dawn was a complete eyesore, but that was due to horrendously low poly counts and low-res textures) You obviously use 3D models to make the sprites, why the added work? If "nostalgia" is somewhere in your answer, it's the wrong answer...

Nope, nostalgia had nothing to do with the choice to go 3D. I had been pushing to go 3d then, and I'm still a supporter now. At this point it's not really a matter of pushing, per se, since just about everyone on the team supports going full 3-D anyway. Moving from the pipeline that we currently have now to something that works with a 3-D client is a colossal undertaking. We would have to develop, support, and maintain both a 2-D and a 3-D art pipeline, not to mention the massive rewriting of code to manage 3-D assets. Most of what we have now what have to be completely rewritten in order to support 3-D.

I'm not implying that this makes the task impossible, but it is a massive, massive undertaking and should be approached with great care and consideration - especially given that the expectation would be that we would support both the classic client and a newly updated 3-D client.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

it's no more a fact of nostalgia... they made their choice when they designed KR, and now they must keep that way because passing to 3d models means rewrite a good part of the client (without counting the drawing of all the models and related textures).

That's right. And that's nothing to say about animations. 3-D clients animations would be created for 30 frames per second. The legacy client runs at a fraction of that speed. So maintaining an art pipeline that supports both 30 frames per second and the frame rate that the classic client runs without creating two completely separate sets of assets, would be really tricky.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

...

I thought that the decision for KR/EC mobiles to use the older stop-motion method of the 2d client (with more frames) was a bad idea as well considering that full 3d modelling would have allowed for SO MUCH more with far less effort, but I'm guessing that the thinking was that by using the same method for each client they'd be able to back-port new creatures from the EC back to 2d without having the weird issues that were present with Third Dawn models used in the 2d client.

But by the same token, aren't we far enough along in 3d technology that this really isn't an issue any longer? We're not restricted to stupidly low poly-count models the way we were in 2001.

No, the decision to go 2-D and not 3-D was not based on aesthetic reasons, it was based on logistics and scheduling considerations.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[sh1nji]

No, the decision to go 2-D and not 3-D was not based on aesthetic reasons, it was based on logistics and scheduling considerations.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

grimm, you believe it 's possible to release the client kr without support? i never has problem with it. or is possible to release only kr arts as a separate download unsupported? =(((

cya