Your Primary Training Concern

[Tina Small]

Imagine you have decided to create a new character from scratch. Selecting from the poll choices provided, which single aspect of completing this character would concern you the most?

If your principal concern about training would vary by type of character being made, please explain why. If you picked "Other" because none of the other options would be your primary training concern, please explain further.

 

[Whinemaker]

Poll? What poll?
(Tina u r a n00b! j/k )

Edit: nm she fixed it!

And I voted "Other"... my main concern is to avoid power-training. Don't have UOA to automate things, and it's just not fun to sit in front of the computer to watch my char cast the same spell 5000 times over.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I thought the same thing when I read "choose from the poll"

 

[StifledArgument]

I voted. I haven't even fully scrolled my existing characters, so that option was the big one for me.

 

[Tina Small]

It took a while to create the poll itself. Each option is limited to 100 characters and I had to edit what I originally wanted to say!

 

[Lord Drakelord]

My main concerns with any new character is when I can have fun. So I voted other.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Had to go with other as all apply, I base it on how much fun I can have, and playing with my friends. I run with a small group (about 6 of us) and we generally start new chars together after formulating a best situation, basically what combination of new chars will compliment each other and our already existing chars (if any, we recently started all new chars on a different shard thus no other chars to worry about complimented except each other) Since I know this stems from the other topic I can say its safe to assume you read my post about how I play so I will not post it again.

 

[Maplestone]

My main concerns with any new character is when I can have fun. So I voted other.

What is it that most commonly gets in the way of having fun?

 

[Kellgory]

I guess it would depend on other variables such as is this new char on a new shard or one that you already play, what type of char, since its pretty easy to make general melee and spellcasting chars compared to tamers from scratch, and is this char to be used for PVP, PVM, or PVE (again I can make a general melee char pretty easy and make enough money while training to piece together a decent suit and weapon for PVM, but would probably not as easy for a char for PVP).

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I voted for the first choice ....

BUT

I really wanted to vote for 1 AND 2 as they are the biggest problems facing new players, regardless of being returnee's like me or totally new to UO.

As a returnee I have started from ground zero resource wise and virtually ground zero knowledge wise as THIS version of UO is only like the UO I LEFT on the surface. Under the surface there is almost nothing the same. This can make a very large difference between those that have been playing UO continuously and those that have not. I will take this opportunity to say those that say they should be rewarded for playing UO continuously for 11 years, may want to step back a moment and look at returning/new players that are fundamentally starting from ground zero and ask themselves if these ground zero players are more likely or less likely to stick around ......

An example, for a tamer, having disappearing mount (charger of the fallen, ethereal ....) is a distinct advantage vs not having one. The Ethy's are what 2 year or is it 4 year rewards BEFORE you can use one. There are tons of these things floating around that could make a difference to many of the Ground Zero group that simply can not take advantage of them.

I was extremely lucky and found 3 Charger of the Fallen's for 1M each and I had just sold a Jet Black Cu for 5M.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

My main concerns with any new character is when I can have fun. So I voted other.

What is it that most commonly gets in the way of having fun?

Getting stats and skills to a level that can compete with others in game or kill the monsters in the dungeons.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I voted for the first choice ....

BUT

I really wanted to vote for 1 AND 2 as they are the biggest problems facing new players, regardless of being returnee's like me or totally new to UO.

As a returnee I have started from ground zero resource wise and virtually ground zero knowledge wise as THIS version of UO is only like the UO I LEFT on the surface. Under the surface there is almost nothing the same. This can make a very large difference between those that have been playing UO continuously and those that have not. I will take this opportunity to say those that say they should be rewarded for playing UO continuously for 11 years, may want to step back a moment and look at returning/new players that are fundamentally starting from ground zero and ask themselves if these ground zero players are more likely or less likely to stick around ......

An example, for a tamer, having disappearing mount (charger of the fallen, ethereal ....) is a distinct advantage vs not having one. The Ethy's are what 2 year or is it 4 year rewards BEFORE you can use one. There are tons of these things floating around that could make a difference to many of the Ground Zero group that simply can not take advantage of them.

I was extremely lucky and found 3 Charger of the Fallen's for 1M each and I had just sold a Jet Black Cu for 5M.

So we should reward the people who did not stick around for the game changing changes they made, The ones who have more or less been the powerhorse behind the game? (with out money this game goes no where). charger = ethy same thing really. I have 4 accounts total, one of them has been active since early 98, the other was recently reactivated in 07 the other two are 22 months. I do not have a charger for each of my non-fourth year chars. I do not believe in rewards for no reason....The rewards are generally a status symbol Until they are really game breaking or removing the balance (currently I can not think of any that do this) then I will agree with you but have a different colored robe than you, not really a big deal. I don't think any of the old players ask for huge rewards for having been playing for 11 years (granted I do not read everything on here but I did say "think") simple pixel crack is all most ask for, having a different invincible mount than you, again not a big deal. Granted the chargers are new and all but they put those in thinking about the unfairness they gave the 4 year vets I am sure, nothing else logical comes in mind for these mounts to have been added. None of the other rewards are really so spectacular that I think anyone would notice the difference in having one or not, I like being able to see someone riding a polar bear and know they have been around for 9 years, or a cu for 10 (tho with bought accounts these days I don't think its a proper status symbol)

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

So we should reward the people who did not stick around for the game changing changes they made, The ones who have more or less been the powerhorse behind the game? (with out money this game goes no where). charger = ethy same thing really. I have 4 accounts total, one of them has been active since early 98, the other was recently reactivated in 07 the other two are 22 months. I do not have a charger for each of my non-fourth year chars. I do not believe in rewards for no reason....The rewards are generally a status symbol Until they are really game breaking or removing the balance (currently I can not think of any that do this) then I will agree with you but have a different colored robe than you, not really a big deal. I don't think any of the old players ask for huge rewards for having been playing for 11 years (granted I do not read everything on here but I did say "think") simple pixel crack is all most ask for, having a different invincible mount than you, again not a big deal. Granted the chargers are new and all but they put those in thinking about the unfairness they gave the 4 year vets I am sure, nothing else logical comes in mind for these mounts to have been added. None of the other rewards are really so spectacular that I think anyone would notice the difference in having one or not, I like being able to see someone riding a polar bear and know they have been around for 9 years, or a cu for 10 (tho with bought accounts these days I don't think its a proper status symbol)

We clearly have differing viewpoints

Would I argue for a 1st year person to be able to use the locked down 2nd+ year Dye Tubs? Not really, but then aside from ego what would be the reason to NOT allow a 1st year person to use a public item?

The Poof mounts are pretty much game changing for a tamer, they always were, from the day they were introduced. I had them yadda yadda yadda. Problem is I sold those two accounts and as such I (and I may be the only returnee in this boat) and at ground zero reward wise (well I am 15 months).

The point was, said another way, is it more harmful to NOT allow new/returning players to USE rewards than it is to allow them to use these rewards. At no time is the argument that they should be allowed to claim these rewards.

There is a significant difference between Claiming a reward and being able to USE a reward.

Assume for some reason you chose to add a new account to your mixture, you choose to add a Tamer. You have a lot of Ethy's, No Chargers and you choose to NOT pay for a Charger.

Welcome to a Quantum World of UO were you are both a Veteran of Time and you are a Newbie, at the same time. Might you not have at the very least an ittsy bitsy teeny weeny twinge of frustration at the Tamer not being able to use a Poof Mount that is sitting unused in your toy box?

 

[Jhym]

For -me- it is the training plateaus we get on most skills (not all.) I have had MONTHS trying to get gains on some skills (in the first year there was very little factual evidence as to what worked best.) Even now I sometimes will have a few days of real play before I get a gain, largely for trying to find appropriate level monsters to deal with. For lumberjacking, it was just finding the time to mindlessly chop trees since I knew I'd get a gain eventually.

Now that we have play guides online that give us better ideas what to do at what levels, the heavy pain is abated. However, there are some skills that just very very tough to work on to get consistent gains at the higher levels.

I'm one of those that prefers GAME PLAY and not boring training. If I'm out and about in the world fighting and doing things, I really should have a much higher chance of getting gains than I would at Luna bank or in my house.

This should be a natural effect of wandering the world and going into dungeons. While scrolls of alacrity do this function somewhat, I think everyone should have that natural bump to gain for actually playing and not sitting in their house casting earthquake or beating up golems in Luna.

As for the training -- the devs don't always seem to understand that people don't like taking a low skill character out to play with the big boys. It's not fun to take on a monster with your current "best" and get killed in two seconds. Believe me, I remember doing that and I HATED trying to find a healer, hoping I had most of my things when I got back to my body, trying to avoid other monsters. That also happened when I played with others.

"Well don't go fight things you can't take on". Completely idiotic argument. Yeah, I keep a notated list of every monster and skill level so I know what not to fight as a new player. Even as an old player I sometimes am surprised by a monster being more dangerous than I thought (paragons sometimes surprise me, as do town invasion monsters.)

You have to get players interested in taking their characters out -- but many of the invasions and activities tend to be geared more towards those that have plenty of experience and ability.

Perhaps the higher difference a monster has between it and your abilities, the less interested it would be in fighting you. We already have a "marker" -- barding difficulty. Why not have monster aggression check vs barding difficulty and "decide" whether it wants to try to attack you? This would be far more realistic anyway -- why the heck do orcs attack my near legendary fighter, that just took out a dozen of their mates?

Anyway, sorry to go in a tangent

 

[Black Sun]

Other - I am most concerned with how long it will take before that character is a viable choice for my daily adventuring. Generally I don't like to attempt anything too dangerous until I have reached high 70's or low 80's in most skills.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

We clearly have differing viewpoints
There is a significant difference between Claiming a reward and being able to USE a reward.

Assume for some reason you chose to add a new account to your mixture, you choose to add a Tamer. You have a lot of Ethy's, No Chargers and you choose to NOT pay for a Charger.

Welcome to a Quantum World of UO were you are both a Veteran of Time and you are a Newbie, at the same time. Might you not have at the very least an ittsy bitsy teeny weeny twinge of frustration at the Tamer not being able to use a Poof Mount that is sitting unused in your toy box?

What a coincidence, I just so happened to have started a new tamer and cant use ethies, I happen to use (wait for it) a horse. Some items I feel it would be fine for them to use, such as LOCKED DOWN dye tubs, since they can just have someone else dye it for them anyway, I on the other hand do not agree with allowing them to own the dye tubs, more or less at all. I agreed with you on the ethy situation, but again there are chargers. On the same point if you choose to not pay for a charger, then you are saying you choose to not pay for an ethy since you say they should not be able to claim rewards, and with that note why lets say we are BARELY back on year 4, its been what 2 years since the release of vet rewards? (i forget when they were introduced but we will pretend this is correct) now a player who just started playing has NO WAY to get an ethy other than a year 4 vet using one of their at the time precious rewards for the would be players benefit, what if that player stops playing? their investment is now a waste. This was the design of the system, just because years have passed does not mean that system should change, just because people decided to quit playing (more importantly SELL their accounts) does not mean they should reap the same rewards as those who stuck it out, sure sometimes it is acceptable to stop playing, life happens, I am simply saying The only form of status you can have in a game with no end, is one that shows how long you have been playing. All the money in the world does not gain you amount of time played, as I said, sure there are sold accounts but then as I just said, all the money in the world wont buy you the amount of time the person played prior to you buying it. Rewards are meant to be rewarded to those who qualify. What has a new or returning player done to EARN a reward? (this is why they call them rewards)

 

[Maplestone]

Getting stats and skills to a level that can compete with others in game or kill the monsters in the dungeons.

No matter what your skills, there are dungeons with creatures that can be killed (and gain skill at the same time) ... but would it be fair to say you are interested in the end-game dungeon critters, not the mid-game?

By competitive with other players, is it primarily PvP? Or do you feel the same way about PvM? game-economy-wise? By some other measure?

(sorry for my incessant curiosity ... I'm just genuinely curious in what motivates/demotivates people)

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I'm one of those that prefers GAME PLAY and not boring training. If I'm out and about in the world fighting and doing things, I really should have a much higher chance of getting gains than I would at Luna bank or in my house.

This should be a natural effect of wandering the world and going into dungeons. While scrolls of alacrity do this function somewhat, I think everyone should have that natural bump to gain for actually playing and not sitting in their house casting earthquake or beating up golems in Luna.

This.

Tho I think gains would be faster fighting monsters than a golem at least for a warrior since golems have a fixed skill and monsters can range up past 120, this is mostly speculation since I don't use a golem to train and the game mechanics seem more geared to that being true (mages obviously have the advantage of being able to cast in a house still)

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

What a coincidence, I just so happened to have started a new tamer and cant use ethies, I happen to use (wait for it) a horse. Some items I feel it would be fine for them to use, such as LOCKED DOWN dye tubs, since they can just have someone else dye it for them anyway, I on the other hand do not agree with allowing them to own the dye tubs, more or less at all. I agreed with you on the ethy situation, but again there are chargers. On the same point if you choose to not pay for a charger, then you are saying you choose to not pay for an ethy since you say they should not be able to claim rewards, and with that note why lets say we are BARELY back on year 4, its been what 2 years since the release of vet rewards? (i forget when they were introduced but we will pretend this is correct) now a player who just started playing has NO WAY to get an ethy other than a year 4 vet using one of their at the time precious rewards for the would be players benefit, what if that player stops playing? their investment is now a waste. This was the design of the system, just because years have passed does not mean that system should change, just because people decided to quit playing (more importantly SELL their accounts) does not mean they should reap the same rewards as those who stuck it out, sure sometimes it is acceptable to stop playing, life happens, I am simply saying The only form of status you can have in a game with no end, is one that shows how long you have been playing. All the money in the world does not gain you amount of time played, as I said, sure there are sold accounts but then as I just said, all the money in the world wont buy you the amount of time the person played prior to you buying it. Rewards are meant to be rewarded to those who qualify. What has a new or returning player done to EARN a reward? (this is why they call them rewards)

*Shrug*

There are IDOC's and reward Items do come with them .... I do actually have 2 Ethy's from an IDOC I found and placed a house on.

Lets see now I started UO the Day Great Lakes went live, I left about 8 months after Trammel went live. I do remember having the Ethy Ostard, Black Dye Tub (both the legitimate and illegal one (that for some reason never hit the bannable offense)) etc.

On the personal side I made my bed and I am not crying because I need to lay in it. For the 2 Accounts, characters, houses etc I made 2.5K US dollars.

Now back to a generalization of the issue.

I have a memory that involves Cross Roads of Britania, DD and UO. What I can not sort out is which was which.

Either the Poof Mounts were initially usable by everyone and there was a Hellatious thread on CoB about how Unfair that was to the Vet's or they were NOT usable by everyone and there was a Hellatious thread on CoB about how Unfair that was to the new players. I bring this up to say that this issue is as old as the rewards themselves.

For some reason this time around in UO I am not being a pack rat. Before (and before there were item and/or weight limits to bags) I would have tons of crap in bags on the floor to my Large Patio with Anvil and Forge, two floors of 3 Towers and probably a dozen 8x8's.

This time I have 2 18x18x3 houses, one on each account. I have 490 items in one house and 275 items in the other house. In one sense I suspect it is due to the specialization of the itemization aspect of this version of UO. Meaning you pretty much get what you want for the character and you make darn sure it doesn't break or get lost. Once you have accomplished that the rest is as some say, Pixel Crack and for what ever the reason it isn't really appealing to me. That goes for the Rewards as well. I have claimed the Commodity Deed Box on both accounts and 2 Soul Stones on each account. It is very unlikely I will claim any other rewards now as in from here on out it will probably be Soul Stones all the way.

My perspective is that given the state of UO today, it may be far more productive to have Rewards (sans Account Bound Rewards) be usable by all people. I have no interest in taking anything away from those that have played UO for years.

I suppose my stance is closer to this, everyone should be able to play as equals, equipment wise, rather than creating a distinction between players based exclusively on Account Age, which as you have noted is not an indicator of "Time Played"

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Well. For one I agreed with you on the level playing field and I pointed out chargers have been added leveling that field. Also, I am not 100pct sure that 8months after trammel is enough time for an ethy as they start at a third year reward (Can't keep my time line straight and I do not know when gl went live, heck I don't even remember the end of beta), and I know this issue is as old as the rewards themselves but it still makes sense the way it is, always has.

Now I am usually not one to compare UO today to UO of years past, But you also can not compare today's high IDOC rate to the rate of when the reward system went live, My memory on the issue is a bit fuzzy but I am almost sure that the rewards have always been time based so it was most likely they were not usable by everyone and the out cry was to allow everyone to use them (yes it has been that many years that I would forget such a detail). I sympathize but as I said new and returning players have done nothing to EARN these rewards, if you wanted to come up with a better system than "each year" I am all for listening, I am just not for giving things to people who have done less to earn them, thus negating the effect of "rewards". Well I have been saying this for a few hours now but I think I am going to go to sleep it is affecting the level of my posts *tips hat* look forward to reading your response if any

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Well. For one I agreed with you on the level playing field and I pointed out chargers have been added leveling that field. Also, I am not 100pct sure that 8months after trammel is enough time for an ethy as they start at a third year reward (Can't keep my time line straight and I do not know when gl went live, heck I don't even remember the end of beta), and I know this issue is as old as the rewards themselves but it still makes sense the way it is, always has.

Now I am usually not one to compare UO today to UO of years past, But you also can not compare today's high IDOC rate to the rate of when the reward system went live, My memory on the issue is a bit fuzzy but I am almost sure that the rewards have always been time based so it was most likely they were not usable by everyone and the out cry was to allow everyone to use them (yes it has been that many years that I would forget such a detail). I sympathize but as I said new and returning players have done nothing to EARN these rewards, if you wanted to come up with a better system than "each year" I am all for listening, I am just not for giving things to people who have done less to earn them, thus negating the effect of "rewards". Well I have been saying this for a few hours now but I think I am going to go to sleep it is affecting the level of my posts *tips hat* look forward to reading your response if any

The only reply is that I am 100% positive the Rewards were there and I used them.

As for Great Lakes ... It was an Original Shard (September 97(?) Beta 96(?)) it has been a life time ago.

Great Lakes was originally hosted .... I am wanting to say either Chicago or some place in Ohio (Lake Superior), meaning I can not separate were the heck the servers were originally, then we were all migrated to Austin. I think Chessy was added shortly after that migration.

 

[Lady Kiara]

I don't like how some skills are easy to raise and some are not...animal taming is very hard to raise as to fighting skills...just an example...

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I don't like how some skills are easy to raise and some are not...animal taming is very hard to raise as to fighting skills...just an example...

They really have the same "difficulty" when it comes to training, The only reason one is faster is because well, one is faster. It takes 12 seconds to fully cycle a taming attempt, it takes roughly 2 seconds to swing a sword. Some are more powerful than others and should take longer what the length of time they should be is up for debate (honestly 12 seconds seems a bit long for an "attempt" to gain, but meh some people might think its not long enough?) On a side note that is relevant to this, Has anyone else noticed Alchemy is not defined by the rules of the ggs? no gains in what has been a week since I got to 99.2 (I have not been grinding tho, just making a few pots here and there each day as I need them or someone else needs them)