Wolf spiders, and their pact instinct Q&A

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

...so. I was wondering. If I have two wolf spiders, and they have pact instincts... what would be the strongest 3rd spider pet I could own to boost their pact instinct? I was thinking it would be a frost spider. Does anyone else know any other spider that would be stronger...er.. even a critter that has pact instinct of arachnid?




...I'm pretty sure it would be frost spider. Anyone verify?

 

[Aldredge]

Indeed frost spider would be your first choice in this case. Be aware of your choices they generally have the least maximum health by about 20-30 hitpoints though they do have the most dexterity.

 

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

I'm finding them spawning with 49 - 60 hp. I was hoping that their hp might go up after some training it up. I know that is what happened to my frienzied ostard.

 

[Aldredge]

There health will raise a amount equal to the amount of strength they gain, however since there life starts out so low and there strength is relatively the same as the other 1 slot pets they will still have a lower maximum life.

Just remember to take them out of the stable last and be wary of any monster that has a area of effect attack or ability.

 

[Sarphus]

frost spider is the best 1 slot arachnid.

to optimize hp on a frost spider you want to farm them while looking for one with as close to 60 hp as possible and as low of str as possible. Then when you train it, the hp will go as high as possible based on str gains.

I'm in the process of building an arachnid pack just like this. I haven't taken it out to test yet.

 

[[JD]]

Since Frenzied's do the most dmg in game as a pack of any pets, but have such low life/die easy, has anyone experimented with some sort of template where you tank for the pets and then call them in when the monster settles on you? Maybe a Sampire/tamer or something

 

[Sarphus]

Since Frenzied's do the most dmg in game as a pack of any pets, but have such low life/die easy, has anyone experimented with some sort of template where you tank for the pets and then call them in when the monster settles on you? Maybe a Sampire/tamer or something

If you have 120 discord you don't need to tank for your frienzies in a lot of circumstances.

I suspect the "Inspire" song for provoke bard mastry would be epic with a pack as well.

As for tanking for your pack... You can do that with 120 magery and a -0 mage weapon. I usually focus on just discording the target and killing it before it does much damage. For boss monsters I prefer to let someone else tank the boss with a greater dragon so my pack can tear into it uninhibited.


I'm tossing around another idea that I'm keeping all hush hush until I get a chance to test it. I got the pets for it, but haven't had time to actually test it yet.

 

[Aldredge]

Alot of people have attempted it the problem is since you have to devote so many skills just to get and use the frenzies effectively you end up being only slightly more durable then they are.

And you lose alot of the utility that comes with it however something i haven't seen people experiment with is a sampire utilizing hell hounds with the dark wolf summon.

 

[Sarphus]

Alot of people have attempted it the problem is since you have to devote so many skills just to get and use the frenzies effectively you end up being only slightly more durable then they are.

And you lose alot of the utility that comes with it however something i haven't seen people experiment with is a sampire utilizing hell hounds with the dark wolf summon.

I've done that, but I prefer bakes for that build. My necro has a near max resist bonded and trianed bake. It's a nice little pet.

 

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

Since Frenzied's do the most dmg in game as a pack of any pets

What?! Are you sure about this?

Wait, let me try to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

Are you saying, they DO the most damage (actual numbers) or just that they have the most damage bonus?

Would a greater dragon hit with less of a number base than that of a frenzied ostard?

Just trying to make sure I'm understanding what your saying.


Oooh, put it like this. On a creature that has high hit points, like a um.... boura, what would kill the boura quicker, a trained greater dragon, or a pack of trained frenzied ostards?

 

[Farsight]

The frenzied ostards do more damage as a pack than anything else in game. The problem is keeping them alive.

If your sole focus is killing boura, then they'll do it faster than anything else except maybe a hell hound pack (High planes boura are weakest to fire).

The spiders are nice, and still hit like a truck, but pale in comparison, damage-wise. The advantage of them is they're a lot easier to keep alive.

(I still have an emotional attachment to my wolf-spiders, and wouldn't give them up for the world!)

 

[Sarphus]

Like you said, damage type matters when you're trying to figure out what will do the most dmg to a specific target. IMO, it's a good idea to keep diverse pets to cover all the damage types and resistance types.

That said, Frienzies are capable of the most calculated damage IF you have a pack that has high enough STR. I don't know if a lot of people look at STR on the stuff they're adding to their pack, but it does matter.

To hit max dmg on a pack of frienzies, you want to have them over 161 STR which is considerably rare. It's especially rare to get good resists along with 161+ STR.

Hell hounds have the same base damage but cap out at 150 STR. They hit for 80% fire damage, so they are still the optimal pack for a lot of targets.

I have a pack of each. My frienzy pack with 161+ str is just brutal, but it took me about a month to farm a pack of frienzies with enough str and decent HP and resistances. I've had them 1-shot discorded rune beetles.

 

[[JD]]

It's hard to get a good pack of frenzied's. I started that quest a while back but after a week of taming only found one frenzied I even wanted to keep. They are so spread out in T2A also, it's not like Greater Dragons-R-Us in Destard where you can walk in and have your pick of the litter. Then I realized I'd have to give up tons of stable space for them and decided they were too much trouble for me lol. I don't have the patience to work up more than 1 tamer. Call me lazy. ;D

 

[Sarphus]

It's hard to get a good pack of frenzied's. I started that quest a while back but after a week of taming only found one frenzied I even wanted to keep. They are so spread out in T2A also, it's not like Greater Dragons-R-Us in Destard where you can walk in and have your pick of the litter. Then I realized I'd have to give up tons of stable space for them and decided they were too much trouble for me lol. I don't have the patience to work up more than 1 tamer. Call me lazy. ;D

Yeah... getting a pack of frienzied ostards that was good took me at least a month and I was hitting multiple spawns in fel and tram. The process of checking frenzies involved a LOT of running around in the crappy map of T2A.

I found the easiest way to get a good greater dragon was to put a character in destard that has stealth, herding and animal lore with a virtue suit on. I would just stealth around destard and lore the dragons. As I lored them I would herd them to follow me. This allowed me to identify when I had lored them all.

I would just check the destard floor every day until I got one that I wanted. Then I would just herd it off by itself and herd the others to some other part of the dungeon so I could tame the one in peace

 

[Sarphus]

What?! Are you sure about this?

Wait, let me try to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

Are you saying, they DO the most damage (actual numbers) or just that they have the most damage bonus?

Would a greater dragon hit with less of a number base than that of a frenzied ostard?

Just trying to make sure I'm understanding what your saying.


Oooh, put it like this. On a creature that has high hit points, like a um.... boura, what would kill the boura quicker, a trained greater dragon, or a pack of trained frenzied ostards?

You're probably interested in actual numbers... I made a spreadsheet that shows me the dmg per hit at various stat levels and base damages that represent the tameables in UO.

When in a pack of 5, a 161+ str Frienzied Ostard will hit for 62-95 modified damage (100% physical dmg). Therefore a 5-pack of 161+ STR Frienzied Ostards can hit for 310 - 475 modified damage per hit. These calculations are with 100 anatomy/tactics.

A max STR Greater Dragon hits for 105-145 modified dmg (100% physical) at 100 anatomy/tactics. I don't remember what Greater Dragons cap out at with anatomy and tactics. If you take a max str Greater Dragon with 120 anatomy and tactics, it will hit for 111-152.

So anyway, when you run the numbers it is clear that a pack of frienzies hits considerably harder than a greater dragon. The strength of the greater dragon is solely that it is a lot more durable.

 

[Meat Elemental]

I would love to train up a pack of ozzies and see what they do with 120 disco and inspire. We need some more stable slots or some craftable stable that holds pack animals. I have no pets to let go to test em out..

 

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

Well... now I know what my next taming goal will be. I plan on putting together a pack of frenzied ostards. And even though this thread was for arachnid pack instincts, it has now become my "go to guide" for what I need and want to know about frenzied ostards.


Now... do the frenzied ostards strength of 160 plus, show up as 160 plus when wild? Or what should the strength of a wild frenzied ostard be when wild?

My best frenzied ostard that I have nearly GM'd has 120 hp. I'll have to check at what his strength is though.



Oh... and um. P.S.

Meat Elemental... your avatar is quite disturbing.

 

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

... sorry to double post... but I just thought of another question. Mostly because I don't do much P.V.P. Does pact instincts apply when fighting another player?

How well might a pack of frenzied ostards do in P.V.P.? Assuming that I got the first hit?

 

[Aldredge]

They can 1 shot players with under 70 physical resist assuming each one lands a hit. Though hell hounds are preferred in pvp due to there firebreath.

Should be noted that any pvper who is worth anything will pick off your pack 1 by 1 quickly and efficiently abusing your control and ability to heal your self and them.

Also surprisingly the easiest template for you to fight is another tamer, your frenzies or hounds can obliterate anything short of a greater dragon in seconds and if there running with a greater you can just target them for the easy kill since there on foot.

reread yes there pretame strength will be what there post tame is so your aiming for 160+ wild. I have never bothered with resist most things that they cant kill instantly are capable of killing them instantly regardless of resists anyway, then again i also run with discord to really bring the pain.

 

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

What if they have a full 70 suit?


How many control slots for a hell hound?

 

[Sarphus]

Well... now I know what my next taming goal will be. I plan on putting together a pack of frenzied ostards. And even though this thread was for arachnid pack instincts, it has now become my "go to guide" for what I need and want to know about frenzied ostards.


Now... do the frenzied ostards strength of 160 plus, show up as 160 plus when wild? Or what should the strength of a wild frenzied ostard be when wild?

My best frenzied ostard that I have nearly GM'd has 120 hp. I'll have to check at what his strength is though.



Oh... and um. P.S.

Meat Elemental... your avatar is quite disturbing.

You can only train pets up to 125 in a stat. To get a 161+ STR pet, it has to have that lvl of STR before you tame it.

Also, you said 160... You want 161 That is the point where it achieves the highest dmg threshold.

Your pvp question...

I haven't tried a pack of frienzied ostards in pvp since I came back. I used to be able to pk people with frienzies, hell hounds and hellcat kittens. I've killed ppl on siege with dire wolves as well before my tamer could get the better pack pets.

It is difficult to heal the pack quickly enough. To run packs effectively in pvp you need to be fast and you need to know your weaknesses (primary weakness is that packs move slowly when chasing someone). If you're just killing people at the yew moongate the trick is to box them in before you attack. If you're pking out in the open field, you want to do so with friends.

When people try to focus on killing a member or 2 of your pack, your friends need to focus on them, which uses the pack as a diversion. If they don't focus on you enough, you kill them (pack becomes main attack). Also, your pk friends need to let you call the shots. You say "focus this guy" and they do that. One volley from your pack will put that guy low or dead. You aren't the finisher generally.

Your damage output will be insane. One time I killed a hacker with my pack. I did well over 400 damage to him before he died (he had hacked his HP), but he died because he was boxed in and unable to outheal my pack damage (frienzies).

You can also use a pack to intercept runners that are trying to get away with low hp. If you cut them off, they have to run around or through your pack... if your pack is attacking them, they are dead. Naturally, packs do best in areas where the path is limited such as the hallway entrance to deceit (LOL).

Sometimes you can get away with invising your pack over a choke point. Then when people run through the choke point they will shove one member of your pack and have their movement stopped by the next one. If you're quick to put the pack on them, they are boxed in and dead.

It is a little known fact that hellcat kittens can have 90% fire resist. I took a pack of them to fel yew moongate once just for some laughs. A couple of guys there tried to 2 v 1 me and one of them had a summoned demon. They hit my cats with flamestrike which basically did nothing. I discorded the demon and boxed in/killed both of the players very rapidly. Then I put the pack on the demon and killed it too. The players were actually laughing at me. Perhaps if they spent more time trying to survive and less time typing "LOL" it would have been a different outcome, but I doubt it Yes, I'm looting while killing.

 

[Aldredge]

Very good explanation also don't forget that your pets are limited to 100 wrestling and they have no dci or hci while players are generally at cap so while you may be capable of one shotting someone don't get cocky it doesn't happen often enough to count on it.

Hell hounds are one slot pets, with a player with 70 in every resist the first attack from your pack will bring them down to 10-20% life next shot kills.

Remember while there awesome they do have alot of weaknesses that are easily taken advantage of and you still have to go out of your way to make them viable.

 

[Sarphus]

They can 1 shot players with under 70 physical resist assuming each one lands a hit. Though hell hounds are preferred in pvp due to there firebreath.

Should be noted that any pvper who is worth anything will pick off your pack 1 by 1 quickly and efficiently abusing your control and ability to heal your self and them.

Also surprisingly the easiest template for you to fight is another tamer, your frenzies or hounds can obliterate anything short of a greater dragon in seconds and if there running with a greater you can just target them for the easy kill since there on foot.

reread yes there pretame strength will be what there post tame is so your aiming for 160+ wild. I have never bothered with resist most things that they cant kill instantly are capable of killing them instantly regardless of resists anyway, then again i also run with discord to really bring the pain.

I agree that a pack tamer does best against a tamer. This is especially true if you have discord.

A good pack will kill a discorded greater dragon very fast. I have taken my packs out in pvp many times and every single time I take them out the other tamers switch to a non-tamer character. I haven't tried a pack in pvp since I came back from a 2 yr break, but I doubt tamer vs tamer fights have changed. Discorded rune beetles get 1-shotted. Those 3-slot steeds went down about the same. If memory serves, Greater dragons usually survived considerably longer if their owner didn't panic, but they still went down.

If you're running packs in pvp, you don't need 120 taming/lore. This opens up a lot of room on your template for other things.

I also agree that good pvpers will try to focus fire single members of your pack and avoid getting too close to you. The skill behind running a pack orbits around your ability to get opponents to go where you want them to go so you can minimize your vulnerability.

A really cautious pvper that is trying to pick off a single pack member will probably not let you box them in, so you will be in a stalemate if it's 1 v 1 (assuming you can keep your pack healed). I'm sure suits are better now than they were 2 yrs ago and back then I would sometimes encounter people that I couldn't kill, but they couldn't kill my pack either. It was a stupid stalemate where they'd shoot my pack and I'd heal it.

Packs excel in many vs many fights because players get killed by other players while trying to deal with your pack... or they get killed by your pack while trying to deal with other players

 

[Sarphus]

Very good explanation also don't forget that your pets are limited to 100 wrestling and they have no dci or hci while players are generally at cap so while you may be capable of one shotting someone don't get cocky it doesn't happen often enough to count on it.

Hell hounds are one slot pets, with a player with 70 in every resist the first attack from your pack will bring them down to 10-20% life next shot kills.

Remember while there awesome they do have alot of weaknesses that are easily taken advantage of and you still have to go out of your way to make them viable.

I agree with this too.

Often your first round of combat vs a player will only take them to half health, which is why I think you want to box in your target first or use packs in a group pvp situation.

Like you said... packs have a ton of weaknesses and are difficult to do well.

One of their strengths is that they are difficult to do well and are rarely seen in pvp. If you're running packs people have to play differently to deal with you, which I have found screws a lot of people up.

 

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

Wow... I still haven't found one 161 strength frenzied. This is gonna' take a while. =-P

 

[pgib]

I don't know in pvp, but in pvm my pack of trained ostards was good for ettins and not much else.

Navrey eats them for lunch, necro-mobs started laughing when they saw them, swoop trashes them in no time, greater dragons reduced the pack to 4 before they could imagine to strike one hit...

Having seen them at work i can't really imagine what they could be good for.

 

[Uvtha]

That reminds me of this guy who used to be a pk hunter on siege. He used a pack of bull, and people instantly just assumed he was a noob or something, and then they are redlined seconds later.

It was pretty funny.

 

[Uvtha]

Having seen them at work i can't really imagine what they could be good for.

They certainly are no good for boss type monsters but for resource gathering, they can be quite handy since they can nuke mid level stuff like drakes and bouras etc in like 1/4 of the time a GD can.

So basically very good for things with not a ton of damage output, but with highish hps you need to kill a lot of.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

They certainly are no good for boss type monsters but for resource gathering, they can be quite handy since they can nuke mid level stuff like drakes and bouras etc in like 1/4 of the time a GD can.

So basically very good for things with not a ton of damage output, but with highish hps you need to kill a lot of.

Actually...if you are not playing solo and have someone tanking (or something tanking) they still have the most dps, doesn't matter what critter you are fighting. Only thing is most higher end mobs have area effects or some other thing to force a target change. But still, you would only spend a small amount of time rezing them if they did happen to die (commands and invis to save them against some bosses, stygian dragon kills them in like one hit so don't matter with him lol.)

 

[pgib]

I have the "hide and come" macro setup and it is a pet-life saver. Unfortunately sometimes the stuck-bug kicks in (the pet respond to the command but stops fighting and gets stuck in place). Besides i really hate the sight of a dead pet: for a tamer it is the signal that a mob can't be killed with that kind of pet or the tamer himself miserably failed.

 

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

I have the "hide and come" macro setup and it is a pet-life saver. Unfortunately sometimes the stuck-bug kicks in (the pet respond to the command but stops fighting and gets stuck in place). Besides i really hate the sight of a dead pet: for a tamer it is the signal that a mob can't be killed with that kind of pet or the tamer himself miserably failed.

"hide and come" ? How do I make my pet hide? Or do you mean you cast invisible on your pet?

 

[pgib]

Yes. To get your pet out of a battle you cast hide on it and then say all come or all follow me. If you're lucky, there will be no delayed damage effect in progress, mobs will loose target and you'll have one to three seconds of "safe" walking for your pet.

If you don't hit the "stuck bug" because if you do then you'll see your pet stuck in place, happily flapping his wings while being butchered to death.