Why PvP?

[Aenra]

As per title, why..

- need you really, really, introduce the concept of 'balance'? How much effort, ceaseless, from now till sunset, will that entail? How much of the "fun" factor will it kill? You can't "go nuts" with balance implemented.
- how many skills, abilities, variations and ideas may need to either go out the window, or go through the accursed "tone down" so as to appear equal? Appear even, forget actually become so.
- who exactly is it that benefits from an all-in-one mentality (we offer to all types of players), and are you even addressing such a person? They do not exactly crave Indies, such people. All-in-one signifies not only a (relatively) equal depth in all gaming spheres, but more importantly, the perception of fair, well thought out functioning in terms of content mass, attention, gameplay scenarios. What we call polish. Since when did you decide you are capable of that, in addition that is to everything else you already have on your shoulders?
- lastly and most importantly, variety. Why why why throw it down the drain because of the above? Because you will. Just re-read your reply in the PvP thread in general discussion. You already need to focus on yet one more aspect, and one that will have to be super imposed on everything else. There is a reason we called it "homogenisation". Barring the odd intellectual prodigy proving everyone wrong, this is what Devs do in order for the gameplay spheres to weigh equally. And even in the odd title scenario where neither of the above stood, they sure did not have two people doing everything in order to accomplish that.

I admit that my number one reason for following this project (to the extent my time allows) was the omission of PvP. Because of all it brings, by necessity, to the table. I am not IT savvy, but empirically speaking, got over 15 years of experience. Why must the past mistakes of many continue to be the mistakes we are to be seeing in the future?
To put it broadly, i personally, just in case this has to be emphasised, thought PG's eschewing PvP was a sign of wisdom from your side. We recognise our intended niche, focus on that. Needless to say what its announced inclusion made me think. My apologies if this offends, not the intention.

 

[PhelimReagh]

As you stated, with the incredible depth and breadth to PG's combat, with so many different combat options, once you cross into the realm of PVP you have to deal with all that "balance", "X is OP!", "Nerf Y!" crap. Given the limited resources available to PG at the moment, I think it was unwise to even go there to begin with. There are always tons of people unhappy and screaming about the "state" of PVP no matter what a dev does. Even Blizzard, with basically unlimited developer resources to throw at WoW, never hears the end of the whining about PVP balance.

And then you have to have a team of testers trying to figure out all the cheats and exploits PVPers are going to use on each other, and have to deal with those criticisms constantly, about how devs are lazy, poor programmers for not catching the exploits, and people will rage when they're banned for exploiting/cheating, when they just see it as "creative" and all other such nonsense.

Why on earth do devs still even open up the Pandora's Box of PVP anyway?

 

[Aenra]

thanks Phelim, that is certainly the issue on a surface level, although it does extend beyond that really;

this is as far reaching as possible. Down to design level. Beyond that even, mentality.
- you want to skip variety, balance and equal content size issues?
- you want to skip, as i said above, possibilities that may allow for extremely "specialised" or adversely, utterly "broad" way of people's approaching your content?
- how about competitiveness? The shallow kinded one mind you, of those that were never offered better, or had the intelligence/maturity to envision it themselves. This kind of competing has never been a healthy one..the separatist, discriminating, allienating one; creative one yes, see EvE, but healthy? Your downfall or my not getting my day's "fix"? Why would a player of such a mentality come to PG? They are not around for the lore, the whacky moment, the unexpected scenario. They are there for the results. The outcome, never the road to get them there.. how does that fit in PG? I hope the oldest/more mature among us can read enough through this, would not wish to make a lecture

One could reply by stating how perhaps then PvP could be merely something additional, an extra, in between, just present so as for the game to present a more "wholesome" picture. For such a reply, i would merely point to my OP above. Mind, in respect to PG in specific. What it already offers, and most importantly, what it requires from the players. In terms of thinking, expectations, desires. Let alone in terms of budget constraints..
And how, unless i am missing something, these requirements would have to be scaled down or re-drawn come PvP's addition. Unless of course, and that i do doubt, a "wait and see" "put it live and see how it goes" kind of thinking would be employed? Again catastrophic. Launch it right, or leave it out. You only present your game to the customer once. Most especially when Indie. No money printing machine to oil the PR beast for you.