Why has the high resolution update been put on hold?

[Woodsman]

For those who don't follow the EC forum, it was posted that the high resolution update has been put on hold because of live events.

http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-enha...n/259467-high-res-revamp-put-back-burner.html

Seriously? I'm sorry, but bringing the client into the modern age is a lot more important than live events, and why do live events require so much attention from the artists that they have to put bigger projects on hold? Is the staffing that low these days?

September is not that far away. It wouldn't take very many of these delays to see the update slip beyond September. It should be a priority because when the 15th anniversary rolls around, all of the gaming websites are going to be talking about UO.

Well they talk about UO every week, especially Joystiq/Massively, they seem to have a bunch of ex-UO players running their websites and mention UO often.

But the point is, it wouldn't take very many of these delays to see the update slip beyond September.

 

[Zosimus]

I see quite a few ex uo players on other sites that still bring up UO when they post. Many games I have played or play there is always chatter in the general chat somebody brings up UO. So it's not forgotten and the UO nation is around and spread out but it still gets mentioned.

I agree with you Woodsman that it's bad call to hold off on the resolution update.

 

[Petra Fyde]

I don't think we're qualified to make that call. We don't know what other factors have influenced the decision. It's regrettable, but I don't imagine it was done lightly.

 

[Ashlynn_L]

When it comes to UO if you wanna know what "put on hold" means, just look at the virtue system. I don't think we should expect to see this now, sadly. =(

 

[Spiritless]

I'm sorry, but bringing the client into the modern age is a lot more important than live events...

You think these graphic tweaks constitute "bringing the client into the modern age?" Really?

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I'm sorry, but bringing the client into the modern age is a lot more important than live events...

You think these graphic tweaks constitute "bringing the client into the modern age?" Really?

Well when one of the biggest complaints from CC users about the EC is that it looks like puke, then yeah, I think graphics tweaks should be a rather high priority. The EC is a better client.

 

[Salivern_Diago]

The High Resolution updates was something that many if not most of the players were looking forward to. To be honest I'ld rather have the High Res graphics than live events right now...

As for being qualified... We're paying customers and thats all the qualifications we require!

 

[Spawn DF]

It's always the same.

Officially Postponed = secretly removed

Don't try this with the high resolution update

It's to important as we forget it!

Publish Notes: 15.11.2011:
"
EC Terrain Texture Updates

As I am sure most of you have noticed the difference in the terrain in the Enhanced Client. Just letting everyone know this is just the first of many more to come. Next publish we will be updating the Wall tile art, I think everyone will really appreciate the new look. Below are a few pictures of what is coming: (Pics)
"

 

[Spiritless]

Well when one of the biggest complaints from CC users about the EC is that it looks like puke, then yeah, I think graphics tweaks should be a rather high priority.

I do agree with this, btw. But describing it as a transition into the "modern age" is a bit far. A "modern client" and the EC are still many leagues apart.

As for being qualified... We're paying customers and thats all the qualifications we require!

Hear, hear!

 

[HD2300]

"EC Terrain Texture Updates
As I am sure most of you have noticed the difference in the terrain in the Enhanced Client."

Besides 10 dungeon graphic tiles, no one has any idea what other terrain textures were updated. So 10 out of 5000 terrain tiles updated.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

"EC Terrain Texture Updates
As I am sure most of you have noticed the difference in the terrain in the Enhanced Client."

Besides 10 dungeon graphic tiles, no one has any idea what other terrain textures were updated. So 10 out of 5000 terrain tiles updated.

Yes. In all honesty I could not see a big difference in the terrain after the last update. Maybe I'm getting old but I do still have good eyesight.

As far as the dungeons go, in the EC when you die, the dungeon terrain is almost unnavigable. It is so damn hard to see a path or an incline in monochrome that it's ridiculous. If you don't already know your way around it's too easy to get stuck and not be able to see your way out.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I do not play the EC.

Despite that I've always been a big supporter of it for the reason that I fear one day the next OS update will just kill the CC, and thus kill UO by default unless there was a more modern option, such as the EC.

Having said that, I always kind of suspected that even less people actually played the EC than we thought, thus making updates on it hard to justify to, say, the "mother ship" (to use the Producer's term for EA proper).

So where's that put me on the spectrum?

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

 

[Woodsman]

I do agree with this, btw. But describing it as a transition into the "modern age" is a bit far. A "modern client" and the EC are still many leagues apart.

The EC is based on the same engine that powers Fallout 3, Elder Scrolls Morrowind, Elder Scrolls Oblivion, and RIFT, among others.

Oh, and Gamebryo is at least a part of what is running Elder Scrolls Skyrim - people were looking through the executables and libraries and finding plenty of Gamebryo references, so the "Creation" engine running Skryim is based on a heavily modified Gamebryo engine.

The EC is based on a game engine that is quite modern.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

put on hold because of live events.

Not an EC user, but yeah, I've been wondering what happened since at one time, it was 'just about there'. Those events... live events, or UO live events? I guess i'm the only one thinking we Don't have coders and artists that UO is their only responsibility.

 

[Tina Small]

For those who don't follow the EC forum, it was posted that the high resolution update has been put on hold because of live events.

http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-enha...n/259467-high-res-revamp-put-back-burner.html

Seriously? I'm sorry, but bringing the client into the modern age is a lot more important than live events, and why do live events require so much attention from the artists that they have to put bigger projects on hold? Is the staffing that low these days?

September is not that far away. It wouldn't take very many of these delays to see the update slip beyond September. It should be a priority because when the 15th anniversary rolls around, all of the gaming websites are going to be talking about UO.

Well they talk about UO every week, especially Joystiq/Massively, they seem to have a bunch of ex-UO players running their websites and mention UO often.

But the point is, it wouldn't take very many of these delays to see the update slip beyond September.

I wonder if Valentine's Day and Easter/Spring EM event items are what took priority over the high resolution update?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Also makes you wonder how many artists there are, and what the typical pipeline is for item creation. There seems to be a major discrepancy between the speed at which stuff is done and the amount of items that appear in-game. No idea what the pipeline looks like, honestly, just curious what the average per-item turn-around is expected to be in a particular project.

 

[Spiritless]

The EC is based on the same engine that powers Fallout 3, Elder Scrolls Morrowind, Elder Scrolls Oblivion, and RIFT, among others.

Oh, and Gamebryo is at least a part of what is running Elder Scrolls Skyrim - people were looking through the executables and libraries and finding plenty of Gamebryo references, so the "Creation" engine running Skryim is based on a heavily modified Gamebryo engine.

The EC is based on a game engine that is quite modern.

So? What's your point?

Take a look at any of the games you've just mentioned. Now look at the EC. There's mine.

 

[Vyal]

The EC is based on the same engine that powers Fallout 3, Elder Scrolls Morrowind, Elder Scrolls Oblivion, and RIFT, among others.

Oh, and Gamebryo is at least a part of what is running Elder Scrolls Skyrim - people were looking through the executables and libraries and finding plenty of Gamebryo references, so the "Creation" engine running Skryim is based on a heavily modified Gamebryo engine.

The EC is based on a game engine that is quite modern.

EC engine is PATHETIC and thats being nice. There is no way the engine is based off of the skyrim engine. Just because they use some of the same libraries to use directx doesn't mean they are the same engine. All the means is they are to lazy to make their own.

Your saying this,

Spoiler

is based off this,

Spoiler

What are you smoking?

Just look how crappy the EC looks, it looks FAR worse then the CC.

I thought the high res artwork would fix how crappy the EC looked tbh. So ya thats a big thing if ya ask me.

 

[donjn]

EC engine is PATHETIC and thats being nice. There is no way the engine is based off of the skyrim engine. Just because they use some of the same libraries to use directx doesn't mean they are the same engine. All the means is they are to lazy to make their own.

Your saying this,

Spoiler

is based off this,

Spoiler

What are you smoking?

Just look how crappy the EC looks, it looks FAR worse then the CC.

I the the high res artwork would fix how crappy the EC looked tbh. So ya thats a big thing if ya ask me.

Whilst I agree with you mostly you should be in politics. You zoomed in the EC to make it look as bad as possible. Also engines have nothing to do with the polygons or sprites that are loaded. You could take a bunch of ugly UO treasure chests and place them in Skyrim and they would still look bad.

The EC looks bad because of the artwork, not the engine.

 

[DenAlton036]

Besides 10 dungeon graphic tiles, no one has any idea what other terrain textures were updated. So 10 out of 5000 terrain tiles updated.

right.. i saw the before and after shots and could hardly tell anything was changed.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Well Vyal, I'm not debating how you feel about the EC but THAT is not how the EC looks if you've set it up right.

 

[Vyal]

Sorry zooming all the way out just so I don't have to see how bad it looks is not what I am doing. Thats why I use the CC, it just plain out looks better.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Sorry zooming all the way out just so I don't have to see how bad it looks is not what I am doing.

That's not zoomed all the way out. That's a 1:1 ratio. The same as the CC.

You think if you could zoom in on the CC it wouldn't look like crap too?

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Vyal,

The difference is the ART. Both engines are Gamebryo, they are just being used in radically different ways. UO's art is mired in player-demanded 90's nostalgia and the terrible, terrible decisions of the current and past Dev Teams as to how to "evolve" the look. Skyrim has modern '3D' graphics and is being produced by a competent studio.

 

[Vyal]

That's not zoomed all the way out. That's a 1:1 ratio. The same as the CC.

You think if you could zoom in on the CC it wouldn't look like crap too?

Sorry the EC is pathetic, I have seen better engines designed by kids.
There is no reason to waste time on it, clearly the developers CAN NOT program & can barely script thats why publishes take forever & things never get done.
The graphic artists must be busy doing other things because making a simple wall texture should not take 2 years to do.

The EC is simply put killing what UO is, its taking up to many resources that should be put else where. Like fixing bugs, adding features for the CC, getting publishes out, fixing the freaking uo.com site, EVENTS keep us going so yes do the events without them people get bored and go play other games.

Spoiler

Mapped, rigged, textured in a day just for fun...
We cant even get simple ground textures done for months and months, or even any word about the work thats being done.

 

[Meat Elemental]

Pic not zoomed in, still nothing like skyrim but not as bad as that zoomed in pic

 

[HD2300]

Vyal,
The difference is the ART. Both engines are Gamebryo.

This.

 

[Vyal]

Skyrim DOES NOT use that engine.

 

[Pinco]

you can't compare 3d models to 2d pictures...

the HD upgrade is just to make all the graphic looks good with the maximum zoom but you will not notice big difference.

The real problem of UO is that the devs points to add more and more contents instead of points in a stable good looking client...
There are good and bad reasons to keep going this way, but for sure they will not get much young players, and what about us? we can only say that we are growing older, not younger so UO will die with its players?

 

[Pinco]

Skyrim DOES NOT use that engine.

yes, it does, but skyrim uses 3d models, uo uses 2d pictures... they can easily use flash at this point to get the same result, gamebyro is wasted

 

[Vyal]

Creation is most certainly not the same thing as Gamebryo.
It’s a brand new engine called Creation. Not Gamebryo

It's not listed in the Skyrim credits at all.
No more saying that EC uses the Skyrim engine...

 

[Spiritless]

You're right about Skyrim, but what you're arguing is trivial. Gamebryo is capable of much better; games like Oblivion and Rift do use it and they look good/marketable. The EC does indeed pale in comparison to what is possible.

 

[HD2300]

Creation is most certainly not the same thing as Gamebryo.
It’s a brand new engine called Creation. Not Gamebryo

It's not listed in the Skyrim credits at all.
No more saying that EC uses the Skyrim engine...

Technically you are correct. Skyrim is not only just 100% Gamebryo. It is is a customised version of Gamebryo / builds upon Gamebryo. Is Skyrim’s Creation just Gamebryo? | Peter Reviews

The point everyone is making is the problem is not the engine, it is with the art.

 

[Vyal]

Technically you are correct. Skyrim is not only just 100% Gamebryo. It is is a customised version of Gamebryo / builds upon Gamebryo. Is Skyrim’s Creation just Gamebryo? | Peter Reviews

The point everyone is making is the problem is not the engine, it is with the art.

Yes we got side tracked....
but
The point I am making is that the developers DO NOT have the resources to manage both of these clients & get out updates and fixes. I mean we are going months between good publishes. Very small things are taking ages to get done that with any other game would be fixed in a matter of days.

You can see in the poor job they are doing, with graphics, communication, events, fixes, heck remember when spring cleaning took a year to start?
The EC looks terrible, can it look better using that outdated Gamebyro engine? Yes, but how many graphic artists are really devoted to working on UO? Like what 1 maybe 2? & the one that is never gets any work done anyhow.

EC needs tossed, set aside, scrapped, burned w/e it looks very bad & makes lots of people sick to play & is nothing like how UO is supposed to look.

 

[Meat Elemental]

*shakes head* don't like it don't play it....

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

EC needs tossed, set aside, scrapped, burned w/e it looks very bad

And we could say the same thing about the classic client and at the same time get rid of most of the cheating in UO. Imagine that.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Vyal, the problem with the image you have posted is that you are looking at zoomed in images on a scale system that does not seem to use any sort of masking or anti-aliasing that are from THE SAME ARTWORK THAT IS IN THE 2D CLIENT This is what happens when you take 640x480 native graphics and scale them to current day resolutions... they distort and pixelate all to hell and back.

Oddly enough, if you EXACT SAME ITEMS are more detailed and DO NOT DISTORT as seen in the image below:

The purpose of the artwork revamp is not to make the artwork look different, (because apparently UO players' heads collectively explode in a fit of dumb when this happens even by accident) but to render them in a new system that can handle the zoom feature present in the EC.

This process has been delayed due to upcoming Event content according to Grimm.

Basically, the reason why the EC looks bad is because it's using outdated 2d client artwork and trying to make them work in a higher resolution.

 

[Pinco]

I know why the EC looks like garbage. This is as much a programming error as it is just plain out terrible artwork. (funny how it looks better on the CC tho)
If you think UO has the artists to redo all this artwork & the programmers to even fix something as small as this your crazy. & If it ever did happen that would be in a few years and not any time soon.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone gave the people on the UO team a cheap little engine and said here kids have fun & none of them have any idea how it works.

apparently KR was born exactly how you described it... EA start to use the engine for warhammer then since the same devs works on UO they said: hey guys have fun with this, oh and here you go 10€ for make a new client, don't waste it
Then they took ms paint and start to draw something cool then they realize it doesn't work and starts to cut features, and here we are with 2 half client:
1 stable but designed for the commodore 64 (CC), EC is hard to describe... is most like a ferrari engine inside a cheap chinese car

However, as one of my friend says: "This is UO, what do you expect?"
We all have to be content of what we have, or the next client will be made in flash

Oh and before someone starts to think I have something against the devs:
They are doing a great job with what they have, if UO is not what it should be is just because of EA don't invest enough money in this game that if is properly developed would be the best game around

 

[Vyal]

All im saying is this is all pointless... I want to say MOST players are content with the way the CC is and will continue to be. I will still love UO on the CC even when the 720 hits and im playing 3d games on my kinect with a 92 inch 3d tv....

The EC is such a HUGE and utter waste of the little resources the UO team has.
If I wanted to play a game that looked like that there are hundreds of them.
It was just another in a long long, LONG list of things these developers have done to kill off UO.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

If the Dev Team simply sat back and were "content with the 2d client" we wouldn't have UO around for much longer. While the majority of current players still play the 2d client, it's not exactly setting the world on fire in terms of bringing in new players or bringing back older ones.

If UO does not grow up technologically, it's going to go down financially.

If you started to play an MMOG thinking it was never going to change... you're in the wrong genre of games.

 

[Vyal]

...

If the Dev Team simply sat back and were "content with the 2d client" we wouldn't have UO around for much longer. While the majority of current players still play the 2d client, it's not exactly setting the world on fire in terms of bringing in new players or bringing back older ones.

If UO does not grow up technologically, it's going to go down financially.

If you started to play an MMOG thinking it was never going to change... you're in the wrong genre of games.

Most people would be returning players.. They get one wiff of the EC and say OMG what has UO turned into and then are gone for good and will find a free shard. & new players looking to play the type of MMO that looks like the EC will more then likely find something that looks WAY better.
The EC is effectively turning people away from the game rather then bringing them in to join.
You don't have to believe me but it's the truth.
Im done anyways this thread is going no place fast. Screw the high res artwork, UO will always be CC UO. Anything else is junk and is doing nothing but wasting the resources that should be used on the REAL client.

 

[kelmo]

Why is it the truth?

 

[kelmo]

To be perfectly honest, I am getting pretty damned tired of the "client bashing".

 

[Storm]

Returning players is all well and good! bringing in the new players is what is needed And the CC Graphics are not going to do it! As we sit neither is the EC graphics but the Ec can be adjusted and adapted way easier than the CC that came 15 years ago!

That is a FACT and that is the TRUTH! we can argue all of this for the 10000 time here and when this thread is done another will come into being and will be argued the same this whole thing gets us no place fast! same fight another day!