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"Why do I miss so much" and "Why do I always get hit" Answers

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Guest

Guest
There are a lot of complaints from people about this topic. People either get hit all the time or never get a shot off. There is no secret about it, the answer is plain as day. It stems from the Hit Chance Increase (HCI) and Defense Chance Increase (DCI) properties.

When you are capped for HCI (45%), you will hit better than 7 out of 10 times. If your opponent is capped for DCI (also 45%) you will only strike 2 out of 10 times. It gets even worse if you are under the effects of either Hit Lower Attack or Hit Lower Defense.

Lets say both you and your opponent have 120 in your respective attack/defense skills. Without any additional properties, the chances of landing/dodging an attack is 50%. If you are attacking and have 45% HCI, your chance to hit increase to 72.5% (opponent has no DCI). If your weapon has Hit Lower Defense your chance to hit jumps to 85%.

On the defense side it is the same story except a little different. Both of you have 120 skill and your opponent has 45% DCI. You should have a 27.5% chance to hit right? Wrong if they are human. They have 20 Parrying which influences the equation. If they have a shield and enough Dex, they will block an additional 5%. If you get hit with Hit Lower Attack, you are looking at less than a 10% chance to land a blow. If your opponent actually has Parrying skill forget about every hitting them.

The obvious short term solution is you either have to be proficient in either one of these properties. That way you can substantially close the gap against people who use them and bring that average back to 50%. Plus you will have the same advantage over people who don't use these properties. But I think that these properties need to have their cap lower substantially, at least below 25% or maybe even 15%. Their bonuses are simply too great. These 2 properties are as vital to players as Faster Casting and Faster Cast Recovery, but it isn't as obvious as those two.

An easy example of how these two properties affect attack chance is from monsters. If you have any kind of HCI, you will basically never miss hitting any monster. It is because all monsters have no DCI and few have higher than 100 wrestling. In addition, the difference between 100 and 120 skill is only 7-8%. These properties boost you nearly 3x that. It is actually more important to have them than 120 skill!
 
G

Guest

Guest
5 years and people still don't properly appreciate those stats, huh? Wow.

You always provide good info, JC. Where do you post most nowadays?
 
M

mmmbeer05

Guest
i think u missed abit for your analisys

u missed having no weap skill and what mageweap/ubws/sc does for you when equipped.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Great read dude. But I have a question for you JC. Say your stacking DCI. I know its capped at 45. But if you stack it to like 60(example) would that negate some of the HCI the other guy has? Actually would that negate HLD? Just curious on that as I have never tested it and I run max DCI on all meh pvprs.
 
Setnaffa

Setnaffa

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
<blockquote><hr>

i think u missed abit for your analisys

u missed having no weap skill and what mageweap/ubws/sc does for you when equipped.



[/ QUOTE ]Rather than telling him he missed something, why don't you just fill us in?
 
G

Guest

Guest
The "Attack Roll" is made first, determining your chance to hit based on your Wep Skill/HCI against your opponent's Wep Skill/DCI. If you fail the "Roll", you miss. If you succeed in the "Roll", you hit, unless the person has Parry. If you succeed in the "roll" against their Wep Skill/DCI, that is when Parry comes in, and can potentially block the attack. Parry is like a second line of defense.

However, there has been a bug/exploit lately, aptly nicknamed the "Godmode" exploit, that makes a person practically impossible to hit with a weapon/fist. I have seen this bug firsthand.
I was on my Samurai Swordsman who has 120.0 Swords and 25% HCI, which increases to 75% with Lightning Strike (HCI is capped at 45%, and normally the extra 30% HCI never comes into play, but the extra HCI kicks in when i'm hit with HLA to counter-act it), i was attacked by a Parry Mage. I fought against the Parry Mage for at least 3-5 minutes, and 90% of that time he stood RIGHT next to me as i had Lightning Strike toggled on my Blade of Insanity, i only landed about 4-6 hits the entire time, and most of them after i managed to land a Disarm with my Ornate Axe. He was even able to stand right next to me as i was swinging away every 1.25 secs, and summon a Daemon without being interrupted. All i heard was the *Wiff* of my wep missing or the *Tink* of it being parried. Even if this Parry Mage had 120.0 Magery (He was using Staff of Pyros)/120.0 Parry/120.0 Bushido/45% DCI/80+ DEX, he still would not of been able to Dodge/Block that many attacks in a row legally. I would of had at least a 50% chance to succeed against his Wep Skill/DCI, and a 60% chance to bypass his Parry.
I have 120.0 Swords/120.0 Bushido/120.0 Parry/GM Tact/GM Anat/GM Heal/60.0 Focus, so when i use Evasion i have a 60% Block Chance with a 2-Handed Wep, and even then i can't Block as often as he was.
I have had a Parry Mage before, and i know what he was doing is not LEGALLY possible.
 
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Guest

Guest
Stacking DCI will not negate your' opponent's HCI. It will however negate HLD. Same as stacking HCI can negate HLA. A Samurai who has 15%+ HCI from equipment and uses a Lightning Strike will be completely unaffected by HLA, seeing as how Lightning Strike not only adds a chance to ignore your' opponents Resists based on your Bushido, but it also adds +50% HCI for that attack. Lightning Strike and a Special Move cannot be toggled at the same time, thus HCI from suit still counts if you plan to land something like a AI.
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

There are a lot of complaints from people about this topic. People either get hit all the time or never get a shot off. There is no secret about it, the answer is plain as day. It stems from the Hit Chance Increase (HCI) and Defense Chance Increase (DCI) properties.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not entirely. It certainly has an effect, but another part of the problem is their RNG and how streaky it can be, especially in certain locations. If you get on a bad streak you need to move to try and get it to reseed. People who stand still alot get hit by this more than people who move around...probably why lots of archers seem to think archery is worse off than the melee skills.
 
G

Guest

Guest
With no Weapon/Wrest Skill, practically everything will have a 95% chance to successfully land a hit on you, and you will only have a 5% chance to successfully land a hit on anything. Only thing's that won't have such a high chance to hit you and you could have a decent chance of hitting are weak creatures, like rabbits/birds/mongbats/etc, or another player with no Weapon/Wrest Skill. If Human and with ML on account, you recieve 20.0 points in every skill under 20.0, Human's Jack of All Trades ability. This includes Wrestling skill.

Mage Weps use your Magery skill as a substitute for the skill that the Weapon requires. If you have 120.0 Magery, but 0.0 Swords, and equip a Katana with -20 Mage Wep, your Weapon Skill is considered 100.0 for Hitting/Dodging purposes. You still must succeed in a Weapon Skill/HCI check against your opponent's Wep Skill/DCI when you are attacking to succesfully hit, and you must still succeed in a Weapon Skill/DCI check against your' opponent's Wep Skill/HCI when attempting to dodge an attack. It is the same if you attempt to hit/dodge an opponent who has Wrestling skill and is fighting unarmed. However, even if you possess the necessary Tactics skill to perform a Special Move with a Weapon, you also still have to have the Real Weapon skill to perform it, Mage Weps do not change that. The -20 Magery penalty on said Katana could be counteracted by wearing equipment that gives a total of +20 or more Magery. The Ilshenar Minor Artifact, Staff of Power, is ideal for Mages without Wrest or Wep skill, and who do not own a Staff of Magi/Staff of Pyros/Swords of Prosperity. The -15 Mage Wep penalty on it can easily be counteracted by a +15 Magery Ring or Bracelet, or a combination of +10 Magery Ring or Bracelet with the Treatise on Alchemy Talisman, which the Talisman gives +5 Magery.

A weapon with the UBWS property, will use the highest Weapon Skill of the wielder instead of the Weapon's innate skill requirement, in order to determine chance to hit/dodge. So if a Macer with 110.0 Macing decided to use a Katana with UBWS property on it, for the purposes of succesfully hitting/dodging, he would be considered equivalent to 110.0 Swordsmanship with that weapon. Unlike with Mage Weps, Special Moves can be used with a UBWS Weapon, even if the person does not have the Weapons innate skill, so long as the wielder is high enough in any Weapon Skill and Tactics. It requires 70.0 Weapon Skill/70.0 Tactics to perform a Primary Special Move. It requires 90.0 Weapon Skill/90.0 Tactics to perform a Secondary Special Move. Your Wrest Skill will not count towards UBWS Weapons, neither will Archery. UBWS Bows have not spawned since after the first few months AoS came out. Even though a few still exist, the UBWS on them does not function, a oddity and collector's piece at best.

SC allows the wielder to cast Magery spells with the weapon/shield in hand, without having to disarm it. Spell Channeling has an innate -1 Casting tied to it. However, if both the SC property and the FC 1 property are rolled when determining the Weapon/Shields properties upon "spawning/crafting", it appears to be Spell Channeling, with no Negative. That's because the FC 1 property negated the -1 FC that is inherent to the Spell Channeling Property. Only Artifacts or a Runic Hammer crafted Mage's Runeblade can have SC and a +1 FC (As in the item properties upon mousing over, Spell Channeling/Faster Casting 1).
 
M

Mastermind (OvD)

Guest
This is very helpful...

But... I was on test center with a char that had 120 wrestling/65 DCI...Guy with 22 HCI was hitting me every time. How does that work? Was it just luck?
 
G

Guest

Guest
Was he using Lightning Strike? If so, then every time he used Lightning Strike he was capped at 45% HCI.
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

u missed having no weap skill and what mageweap/ubws/sc does for you when equipped.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't think having no weapon skill means you get hit every time needed to be explained. Mage Weapon is also a pretty self explanatory property (120 Magery -25 Mage Weapon = 95 defense skill). Use Best Weapon skill just takes your best weapon skill. Spell Channeling does nothing for defense.
<blockquote><hr>

Was he using Lightning Strike? If so, then every time he used Lightning Strike he was capped at 45% HCI.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is important to note that Lightning Strike gives you 50% Hit Chance Increase. So while they might not have any HCI, a Bushido player can use Lightning Strike to have max hit chance. This is why it appears that Lightning Strike users hit you every time.
 
J

jagarr

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

how i miss the good ol days of vanqs...

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto

now you have to min/max like in WoW to be any good in pvp=/
 
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