*waves*

[Tjalle]

... at Asty and Bo.

I thought about not posting this but meh, I´m too curious I guess.
Plus we haven´t had any board drama for at least a couple of days...

So just a quick recap.
A GIL, me, looted some VICE-members at this weekend's event. I didn´t kill them, they died to monsters. I was told I was a "f**king di*k" and that looting at EM events was a di*k move and especially when I loot someone I didn´t kill myself. Needless to say, they didn´t like what I did.
According to them VICE never does this and GIL should be ashamed and punished.
So in return they killed and looted a former GIL-member (which is fine btw) and when she asked for her suit back the response from DevilDog (Siege's alt) was: "thank your guildmate".
She explained she wasn´t in GIL but they hung onto the GIL excuse.
And IIRC there was some attempt at a threat from him that we should suffer for what I did.
So that was this weekend. So far we agree?

Now, rewind it back 9 months to the Dec 31st EM event.

This was just prior to the Void Pool record attempt.
Lots of people were there and among them a GIL member, Bia. He was there killing dark wisps and other monsters and died to the spawn. For some reason he had his VP suit on, a 210+ stam suit and lo and behold, a VICE member (Siege) loots it from his corpse.
When asked if he could buy it back the response was "sure, for 26 Mil" which basically means 'F You, I'm keeping this'.

Now, I´m gonna assume that you two weren´t aware of this or if you were, perhaps had forgotten about it when reacting this weekend.
But since you felt so strongly about someone looting someone else who died to monsters at EM events, I´m just wondering what you feel about the actions of your guildmate. Is he, in your eyes, also a "f**king di*k"?
Or will he get a pass because he is VICE?
Or will we see the same ol' "You´re GIL, 'tis all lies!" responses we usually get...?

And also, it kinda shows Siege's (the player) hypocrisy. Punishing someone because their (former) guildmate did something he claims is wrong while at the same time being guilty of it himself.

Feel free to let us know when you get a chance.

*signed*
Leawyn II

 

[Xris]

If someone has something valuable on them you take it! I think we have all lost expensive things, it's part of the game. The only time I'd return something is if it was a guildy, or a new player.

Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

If someone has something valuable on them you take it! I think we have all lost expensive things, it's part of the game. The only time I'd return something is if it was a guildy, or a new player.

Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk

I can hand on heart say I've not lost anything expensive yet.

Great drama by the way, keep it up!!

/Celestial.

 

[Xris]

I can hand on heart say I've not lost anything expensive yet.

Great drama by the way, keep it up!!

When I first started playing UO in Renaissance some nice guy gave me a house, and I lost the key. I never found it again haha this was when small towers were expensive. Things like this still happen to me all the time hahaha

Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk

 

[Bo Bo]

What you did is weak! and this isn't the first time you did it. You did it before at some tree drop event.
You have no spine at all you are a coward. Hey no doubt this is siege and don't wear what you aint willin to lose. Bo is all for you trying to take bo's **** but at least give bo a fight first.
It is called honor, which you have proven to have none. Earn your loot *****..

 

[Uvtha]

What you did is weak! and this isn't the first time you did it. You did it before at some tree drop event.
You have no spine at all you are a coward. Hey no doubt this is siege and don't wear what you aint willin to lose. Bo is all for you trying to take bo's **** but at least give bo a fight first.
It is called honor, which you have proven to have none. Earn your loot *****..

Bro, why you take all my lockpicks. I had to make more.

 

[Tjalle]

What you did is weak! and this isn't the first time you did it. You did it before at some tree drop event.
You have no spine at all you are a coward. Hey no doubt this is siege and don't wear what you aint willin to lose. Bo is all for you trying to take bo's **** but at least give bo a fight first.
It is called honor, which you have proven to have none. Earn your loot *****..

I´m confuuused.
Are you referring to me or your guildmate Siege? Or perhaps both?

I´m starting to wonder if the reason you guys get mad is because I burst your safety bubble and you can´t handle to be the "sheep" for one night...

 

[Max Blackoak]

I´m starting to wonder if the reason you guys get mad is because I burst your safety bubble and you can´t handle to be the "sheep" for one night...

This one made me laugh out loud. someone sure has a bit of an inflated ego me thinks...

 

[Tjalle]

No ego at all actually.
It´s no secret your alliance has no real threats on Siege and therefore can do pretty much anything you want at anytime you want.
So when I put you guys in a position this weekend where you couldn´t die without fear of being looted that feeling of being safe went away.

Unless of course your goal was to be looted. Then you were absolutely 100% safe.

 

[Xris]

This trash talk makes me want to make a toon on siege

Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk

 

[Baby Doll]

This trash talk makes me want to make a toon on siege

Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk

\\

We welcome you, if you want drama join gil, if you want better, join any other guild!

 

[Max Blackoak]

It´s no secret your alliance has no real threats on Siege and therefore can do pretty much anything you want at anytime you want.

and that is our fault how? We would love for people to step up and fight back. Your guild only fought us on Sundays because we respected the no-looting agreement. Of course they still found more than enough stuff to complain about and certain members even kept accusing us of cheating which is kinda ridiculous in a no-looting environment where we don't gain anything from an opponent's death. Most of the accusations were rooted in lack of understanding of basic game mechanics by the way but I really don't want to go into too much detail here now because I am more than done explaining things to people who will just turn around and continue to call people cheaters no matter what. In the end this resulted in your guys no longer showing up for that, probably hoping we would get so bored that we would stop playing. That might work with some prodo guild who comes to Siege and leaves once they don't find any action - it sure doesn't work against actual Siege residents. Again, we would love for people to come fight us any time.

What you did however was not fight, it was simply looting someone during an event and stealth away. You can't loose there because you're wearing trash while the people you loot are not. Do I cry about it? I sure don't, I can easily replace any of the stuff you got off of me.
Does it give me a sense of a loss of "that feeling of safety"? Not at all, it is annoying at best.
Does it earn you any respect from any of us? Hell no and we will treat you accordingly.

You seem to think of yourself that you're some kind of great vigilante exacting revenge for whatever. You're not - at best you're a nuisance. I think that you're a bit full of yourself and have a toxicly selfrighteous attitude but that's already it.

 

[Freelsy]

So here's the deal with why I was mad.To me, it comes down to respect, and honor. A set of core values I carry with me in game and in real life. Does anyone actually have a problem with Astynax? Does anyone really have a problem with anyone in VICE? As Hattori Hanzo eloquently stated in his thread, Siege is about community. It's the most tight-knit community in all of UO. All of us in VICE are accommodating to new players, player community rules (think Brit hub/UWSP hub), and the NEW guild. No killing and we honor that. VICE may role-play the PK side (which I guess makes us bad people?) but we're also very charitable with our gear/resources. I gave away 5 120s the other week because someone needed them. Doesn't matter to me, it helps a player out.

Now what you did was violate the trust that we, as a community, seemed to work together to establish. Our EM has put on MANY great hunts, and they're fun! We don't want to ruin that. We don't loot someone when they die. That's just ridiculous and cowardly. You went to the event and waited for someone to die to loot them. But I will tell you, this is what GIL has become. Your white alliance can't field enough players these days so you resort to these shallow grief tactics. I will call someone else out as well... Malloc. I used to think he was a standup guy, but holy hell man, what happened? He can't seem to put a sentence together without dropping the F bomb or hurling some other derogatory name towards the VICE alliance. But, unlike you, I don't blame all of GIL for the actions of a few. Sara, she's cool. Joline.. cool as well. Sometimes I kill you, sometimes you kill me. That's the game and it's fun. But going to an event and getting looted by a coward is a low blow. Finally, it's not that we don't like to be looted. The other day you looted Siege's corpse in New mag because he got guard whacked. We all had a good laugh, but it was justified. No one was angry at that. He goofed and you took the win. But the event... that's just bad!

Play the game and have fun.

 

[Nirot]

The other day you looted Siege's corpse in New mag because he got guard whacked. We all had a good laugh, but it was justified. No one was angry at that. He goofed and you took the win.

Yeah... that was real fun! - Sadly I noticed to late.... that I could loot DevilDog... otherwise I would have picked more of the nice stuf....
Anyway at least I got a Hawkwinds robe for free....

Play the game and have fun.

So true!!!

All cool down now... there is no reason for argueing from both sides.... both made mistakes ... some more ... some less...

And I really miss that fun aspect in gen chat... we do not need the atlantic "**** talk" in General Chat.
One of the reasons I came to Siege was that here are people, who does not need to make "tail" comparison all the time, they are talking in Gen Chat.....

.......

My very old motto (from my first guild in UO) is still really valid:

If you die, die with a smile .... makes the death much more amusement....
(Bring in the CLOWNs!!!)

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

(Bring in the CLOWNs!!!)

Crazy Lunatics of the Wild North...


Am I close ?

One of the best guilds ever imo.

 

[Tjalle]

and that is our fault how?

Did I say it was anyone´s fault?
Please don´t go Bo on me now...

And since the rest of your post was way off point I´ll just leave it at that.

 

[Blind Otto]

When I was last out mining, my pickaxe broke. I blame WyRm.
(In the hope that he'll come back to defend his bad name.)

 

[Bo Bo]

I´m confuuused.
Are you referring to me or your guildmate Siege? Or perhaps both?...

referring to you, you might have forgotten but the Bo hasn't. You stealthed in and looted people that died at a previous em event that dropped some tree thing.
see that is just who you are and what your guild has become, cowards with no honor. y'all feel this need to start **** with our alliance (prolly penis envy) you and several of your guildies will always pick someone or a group of people who you think is bad for the shard and try everything you can to drive them away. Does doing this give your gameplay a purpose? Do you feel high and mighty when you do this?
It is funny how you do whatever it takes to try to put us down, (youve compromised your morals) as you stated hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[Tjalle]

referring to you, you might have forgotten but the Bo hasn't. You stealthed in and looted people that died at a previous em event that dropped some tree thing.
see that is just who you are and what your guild has become, cowards with no honor. y'all feel this need to start **** with our alliance (prolly penis envy) you and several of your guildies will always pick someone or a group of people who you think is bad for the shard and try everything you can to drive them away. Does doing this give your gameplay a purpose? Do you feel high and mighty when you do this?
It is funny how you do whatever it takes to try to put us down, (youve compromised your morals) as you stated hypocrisy at its finest.

Please refresh my memory of said event.
I´m not sure what your point is here. Are you saying I looted UWSP members? Or are you saying I perhaps looted NEW/NEW2/-members? Who did I loot?

Or if this actually happened, which I don´t remember, could it have been enemy players who has done our guild wrong and are KOS to us? Could it had been players that deserved it (ingame speaking of course)?
Because those are the only kind of players I kill and/or loot.
"see that is just who you are and what your guild has become, cowards with no honor" You crack me up when you say stuff like this.

You won´t find a single player outside of Hi-5, LB, VICE or some other former enemy guild that will say I have done them wrong. Hmm, now why is that?

 

[Tjalle]

Now what you did was violate the trust that we, as a community, seemed to work together to establish. Our EM has put on MANY great hunts, and they're fun! We don't want to ruin that. We don't loot someone when they die. That's just ridiculous and cowardly. You went to the event and waited for someone to die to loot them. But I will tell you, this is what GIL has become. Your white alliance can't field enough players these days so you resort to these shallow grief tactics. I will call someone else out as well... Malloc. I used to think he was a standup guy, but holy hell man, what happened? He can't seem to put a sentence together without dropping the F bomb or hurling some other derogatory name towards the VICE alliance. But, unlike you, I don't blame all of GIL for the actions of a few. Sara, she's cool. Joline.. cool as well. Sometimes I kill you, sometimes you kill me. That's the game and it's fun. But going to an event and getting looted by a coward is a low blow. Finally, it's not that we don't like to be looted. The other day you looted Siege's corpse in New mag because he got guard whacked. We all had a good laugh, but it was justified. No one was angry at that. He goofed and you took the win. But the event... that's just bad!

Play the game and have fun.

What exactly did I violate? What is this supposed agreement that only VICE seems to know about? I guess I didn´t get the memo...

We don't loot someone when they die. That's just ridiculous and cowardly.

Really? You´re a group of PKs!
I know you only mean during events but that´s my point. What makes you think VICE get to set the rules of when looting can and can´t be done?
You PK and loot all the time but when your group is more exposed then all of a sudden it´s a big NO-NO?

And just like you guys, I use the resources I have. And this time it was an event boss.

Btw, you´re still cool in my book.

 

[Tjalle]

Now, I´m gonna assume that you two weren´t aware of this or if you were, perhaps had forgotten about it when reacting this weekend.
But since you felt so strongly about someone looting someone else who died to monsters at EM events, I´m just wondering what you feel about the actions of your guildmate. Is he, in your eyes, also a "f**king di*k"?
Or will he get a pass because he is VICE?

As I suspected, the part above would be ignored.
So...

 

[Max Blackoak]

Please refresh my memory of said event.

it was the event where we ended up in Wind park with about 10 crimson and 10 platinum dragons wreaking havok. The event drop was a replica of hawkwinds apple tree (a miniature apple tree). People were dieing left and right and you started to loot our guild members. Some times you died trying to get away, most of the time you got out with their loot. That was even before Siege had joined us by the way.

 

[Zog]

Klomp em ayl en let da blud god sort dem out!!!! HOOWAH!!

 

[Critical Gaming]

The concept of crying about looting on this shard baffles me

 

[Tjalle]

it was the event where we ended up in Wind park with about 10 crimson and 10 platinum dragons wreaking havok. The event drop was a replica of hawkwinds apple tree (a miniature apple tree). People were dieing left and right and you started to loot our guild members. Some times you died trying to get away, most of the time you got out with their loot. That was even before Siege had joined us by the way.

Ok, that night I remember. I don´t remember the drop as I didn´t get one but I do remember the Wind area.
It was just after the Zero Fox incident I believe.
So that is what Bo was referring to? He made it sound like I griefed innocents...
You! Are! An! Enemy! Guild!!! Why would I show mercy?

So me looting enemies means "I have no spine and am a coward" and "I have no honor" and "This is what GIL has become" and it´s "grief tactics"?
Oooh my.
I´m not sure how to respond to this...

And not that it matters but since you brought it up, Siege might´ve not officially been in the same guild as you at that time but he was definitely running with you guys.

 

[Max Blackoak]

he was not. in fact we were killing him back then.

 

[Blargety]

I’ve found that Vice encourages competition, which is the exact opposite of what you’re saying here. Proof of this is found in the amount of help I have had rebuilding an Orc clan in the shadows of the actual Shadowclan. We’re not even a fiftieth the strength of the old Shadowclan, and Hell half my Orcs are still learning Orc Blah for the very first time, but still, they’re right there encouraging us, and teaching us.

If Vice wanted no competition whatsoever, Max would not have spent hours with me answering my stupid questions. Siege wouldn’t have dropped what he was doing at most points in time to pop in and see if we needed assistance with things. Bo wouldn’t be shoving free gear from his burn pits down our throat, and other Vice members would be ensuring that we had no chance of even building an Orc Clan that is capable of fighting.

There’s respect, then there is whatever is going on here with GIL. From what I’ve seen, very few GIL members remain, and those that do are for the most part ready to jump ship, either from the guild, or the shard in general. I wish that weren’t the case, but toxicity breeds toxicity and I’m afraid that spreads like a cancer.

The problem is, too many players feel like they should be inpervious to loss. Proof positive, look at the amount of “How can I Solo X” vs “How can my group beat X” posts are made here on stratics every day. Instead of focusing on yourself, look at the bigger picture. You cannot play Ultima Online by yourself in every aspect of this game and expect to win. When you lose trying to do so, have some self respect and take the L. It’s only a game.

Dems meeb dub shinies boud-duh sitchuashun.

 

[Shalimar/Cleo]

Well I'm not competing with anyone but Max has spent lots of time with me also, explaining IN GREAT DETAIL anything I ask him about the stuff I missed and wouldn't understand half of even if I'd been around this past 6 years, thanks much Max.

 

[GarthGrey]

I"m torn between this dispute, on one side there's Leawyn, who with a simple stratics message, saved my 70 soulstones and I will be forever grateful...on the other end is Max, who is damn close to being the most helpful person (through shared knowledge) on the shard. It's a shame disputes have to exist at all, but even though we're all Avatars on this side, we're humans on the other side.

 

[kelmo]

I want some of what Garth is smokin'. *nods*

 

[Max Blackoak]

I'll make this easy for you Garth: We're right, they're wrong. GIL is to blame, VICE are innocent. Done.

 

[GarthGrey]

I guess "torn" was a poor choice of words. I don't really have to make a decision on this as I was not a witness to any of the events in question, so I'll just say it pains me to have to sit in the middle. Done.

 

[Planters]

For me personally I don’t get what’s happening but siege is a loot place. Most of the time I get looted it’s a minor inconvenience. Someone will take my head piece, or legs, or something else. I have only had once when someone dry looted me (actually make that twice) when I was wearing my best suit which is still not great and they killed me and the first day on the shard and I was greeted with welcome to siege by a red in Brit and killed.
I run around with gear I don’t mind losing and if they take it all that stinks but it does happen. I have 3 backup crap suits. The down side to this is I rarely have full resist so it still makes the game harder which in itself is a fun aspect.
I like all the people here. We each have our own problems and game play. The last event I went to was the llama one and that was because towards the end a mob killed me and I was dry looted and didn’t have a back up suit and didn’t want to make another. At the end of the event the person that dry looted me again gave me back all my gear except I think the chest. They didn’t know my toon could stealth and didn’t want my gear to disappear. But if hey wanted to keep it all then I was ready at accept that and move on.
That’s my 2 cents and I hope others know that this will happen and others may not see it. Mine isn’t the same but it could have been. I was told by a red one time and a blue... don’t run around wi h gear you aren’t ready to lose and don’t spend gold you don’t have to throw away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Baby Doll]

To be honest with all, I find it good to leave UO every now and then. A person can get wrapped up in the drama defending/siding with guild mates . For the most part people jump into Vent, Discord, or whatever program to speak with each other. There people for the most part talk about game but also real life where people get to know and understand each other and achieve a higher level of friendship. It is hard to see friend hurt or attacked by others in game with out getting a bit riled up. Then things get said in gen chat to faceless voiceless pixels toons. Then things remembered encourage paybacks or so called "lessons" to those who spoke in opposition. Then Stratic's begins to heat up, because here each side post opinions to attack opponents and suck in those who are neutral into the drama. Too much drama? Take a day or two away from it, you will be okay!

Nothing but Luv,

Baby Doll IPKU (VICE)

 

[Eärendil]

I myself had enough drama here and I promised myself to stay out of any discussion. For example, I was very upset when I was killed and drylooted without provokation by someone who was guest of my public hunts more than once... But I learned that best is to shut up as you will be everybody's idiot as soon as you talk about ethics. Hence, I walked away, had a break and stood aside.

I will do so in this situation, too - with one exception: I cannot stand reading that Tjalle has no honor. It is a very archaic concept of honor behind these claims. But no criticism from me. Just one statement: Tjalle in fact is one of the most honorable people I ever met in this game.

Thank you and have a nice weekend!

 

[Barefoot Scribe]

Well I (Branwyn) was there this past Saturday at the EM event, the first one of these I have attended. I logged in and shouted a "hi" in gen. chat as I usually do and the EM said "Grab a sword and join the fight against the bad guy". So I got my rune beetle and took the gate. A few minutes later I got badly hit probably by the monster, and I ran off a bit to try and heal up but I died. As I looked to get a rez a VICE guy on a swamp dragon rode over, not to rez but to quickly strip my corpse and run off. Ouch! I was left with no good way to continue in the combat because I had no lrc or even bandies at that point. But I decided to try and be a good sport about it and stood naked while my beetle continued to fight and others kept him healed up. I mentioned my suit in gen, chat only because Freja had made it for me when the tiger stuff was new. It was not anything uber at all. basic lrc. Then I got pk'ed by a vice guy in spite of my denuded condition. I took that action as an invitation to leave the event as I sure as hell couldn't continue playing. I was told that I had it coming because I was once a Gil member and because I have Gil friends. This is true. Sara Dale and Artful Dodger have been in game and real life friends for around 20 years now and a few others. I guess this means that in the eyes of VICE, I cannot declare neutrality. Where is the respect in this behavior?
And after what took place Saturday it seems to me that unless you want to PvP or just get Pk'ed EM events are for VICE and UWSP because how can you team up against the monsters if you are killing and looting each other?

I have been on Siege since April 2008 (with several leaves of absence for health and other rl issues) so I know the ropes here. But I am a recreational player and really enjoyed the community interactions and cooperation that I experienced and enjoyed. I have been killed and looted quite a few times for being out at the wrong place at the wrong time over the years. Once a few years back Bo killed my alt. crafter Phelonius at the Ter Mur gate and then he proceeded to shake his head in dismay, laugh and tell me I had crappy armor. It was a hoot, and confirms Queen Zen's old adage that "death is a social activity on Siege". But this feud is different in my experience, and I agree with Blargety about the toxicity of it driving some of us away.
And I am taking your sage advice Baby Doll and hanging with my old friends on Catskills who have recently returned there when I have time to play UO.

 

[Tjalle]

he was not. in fact we were killing him back then.

The timeline begs to differ.

According to this thread the event took place Jan 12th:

EM Event - ***Drop Info Needed For The Rares Wiki*** ~Siege Edition~

The double castle IDOC in Minoc took place on Jan 10th. (That was the date in the house sign when the castles were transferred)
And at that IDOC, VICE did anything but killing him. I don´t remember you there but he and the rest of the VICE allies together did anything in their power to prevent GIL from saving Borg's castles by trading from the owner chars (the account had been re-activated) to GIL chars. Lots of fields and flamestrikes on Char´s chars.
So if we´re gonna talk about dishonorable acts, well, there´s one of them. Where was the community building spirit then?

To me, if an account has been re-activated and the houseowner char is ingame you help whoever that is to save the house from falling, not preventing it. But perhaps that´s just me...

But yeah. He was running with you guys back then.

 

[Max Blackoak]

The timeline begs to differ.

According to this thread the event took place Jan 12th:

EM Event - ***Drop Info Needed For The Rares Wiki*** ~Siege Edition~

The double castle IDOC in Minoc took place on Jan 10th. (That was the date in the house sign when the castles were transferred)
And at that IDOC, VICE did anything but killing him. I don´t remember you there but he and the rest of the VICE allies together did anything in their power to prevent GIL from saving Borg's castles by trading from the owner chars (the account had been re-activated) to GIL chars. Lots of fields and flamestrikes on Char´s chars.
So if we´re gonna talk about dishonorable acts, well, there´s one of them. Where was the community building spirit then?

To me, if an account has been re-activated and the houseowner char is ingame you help whoever that is to save the house from falling, not preventing it. But perhaps that´s just me...

But yeah. He was running with you guys back then.

And how was anyone supposed to know about that? We found these two castles in decay and of course we killed anyone there because that's what you do at an idoc tp prevent other people from looting. We were very disapointed when all of a sudden during the 2nd (!) drop window both castles reset to private.
Also I find it funny that you make idocing out to be something dishonorable like we're stealing from someone. First of all it's the owner's responsibility to not let their houses go idoc. There are of course situations in life that prevent you from doing that but how is anyone supposed to know about that? The game has clear rules about that and when the houses fall what remains is up for grabs. So don't make this look like we are at fault when those two castles actually would have fallen.
And then this is another great example of your double standards.: on the one hand you are a member of a guild who specialized and is very good in that field and you yourself are one of the people who actively participate in this alot. Then on the other hand you're reproaching us with the same acitivity?

 

[Old Timer]

Okay, I've been following this thread because I was there as well and was curious to see how it would unfold on the boards. I planned to stay out of this verbal and quite active ' shard war' which is between Vice and GIL only... but Branwyn's response forces me to make a clarification. And this is for any and all on the shard....

UWSP is NEUTRAL... period.

But it seems that we continue to be (tried to be) drawn into shard politics. We support Siege, not individual guilds or players... we attend almost every player event (no matter who originates them), and yes, you will ALWAYS find us at EM events - even the events that do not have a coveted EM drop. Whoever else shows up, makes no difference to us as we try to play and get along with all.
In the world, we get pk'd like everyone else... by the same people everyone else does. We just move on...

STOP trying to make Alliances, or accords that don't exist. Leave us the hell out of your battles ... we don't take sides. We will continue to help any that need it, be visible and active in the world... and try to help keep the Siege shard a good community that people would want to settle on.

Saying all this may get me admonished from my guild, maybe even a 'kick'... that is how serious UWSP takes the protection of their neutral status!

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

I live for shard wars like this, it's all I've ever known, and whilst I get fully involved, I 100% enjoy it.

I know of 2 GIL, Nirot and Tjalle. I've almost never seen any others. Both very cool.
I know of 3 VICE, maybe 4, Max, BoBo, Siege and Babydoll, I've seen others. Again all very cool people.

I see Vice being fairly active and doing stuff.
I see very little movement from GIL ingame which I think is a shame, I hear so much about them.
I could be completely wrong of course, but I think Siege the shard, could do with GIL standing up and being counted a bit more.
On Europa, we often held public harries, public spawns, public events whatever (all Fel based), announce them in chat, and say to all the red/orange guilds, come and get us.
I'm sure GIL could hold their own in that scenario?
Create action, create fun, all get wound up, but have a laugh after.
Sure there can be as much bitterness as there is in this thread, but at least you all know you achieved something game-wise.

 

[Tjalle]

What should had been:

Ah yes, you´re probably right. It does indeed seem like he was running with us back then.

...but instead became:

And how was anyone supposed to know about that? We found these two castles in decay and of course we killed anyone there because that's what you do at an idoc tp prevent other people from looting. We were very disapointed when all of a sudden during the 2nd (!) drop window both castles reset to private.
Also I find it funny that you make idocing out to be something dishonorable like we're stealing from someone. First of all it's the owner's responsibility to not let their houses go idoc. There are of course situations in life that prevent you from doing that but how is anyone supposed to know about that? The game has clear rules about that and when the houses fall what remains is up for grabs. So don't make this look like we are at fault when those two castles actually would have fallen.
And then this is another great example of your double standards.: on the one hand you are a member of a guild who specialized and is very good in that field and you yourself are one of the people who actively participate in this alot. Then on the other hand you're reproaching us with the same acitivity?

Firstly, houses go private the second they start to decay.
Secondly, they knew the accounts had been re-activated and we were trying to save them from falling.

Look, IDOCing is fine. Killing during an IDOC is fine. Looting at an IDOC is fine. Preventing others from looting the fallen treasure is fine.
I´m talking about the moment the owner char is in the house again. Remember that the house is private so if someone enters it it´s the legit owner.
IIRC, Calaman even said "It´s the owner" when he saw UncleSham inside the castle.
That is the moment I´m talking about. That is when the fork in the road appears.
Do you go right and help save the house or do you go left and do everything you can to prevent it? I know which way I would go. And yes, even for you guys...

But like I said, perhaps it´s just me.
For those who cares, here´s a sample of my IDOCing ethics. Post #22:

gone


Anywho...
I feel like we´re sidetracking a bit too much here so if someone could just answer my earlier questions then I think we can put this thread to rest.

 

[Sparviero]

Well i think Piram said all that there was to say about this thing from UWSP side (we get looted as all people on this shard.. sometimes we kill who attack us and we don't loot them... Sometimes we got killed and someone loot us. It's the life on siege and we move on... there is no secret deal between us or Vice ) ...Usually i stay out from these discussions because i have friends on all sides and this war it seems to me a waste of time... If we continue in this way these things will never finish... Because one side will do a thing, the other side will do the same, then repeat... There is need that someone break this circle because on Siege we need all 2 sides. For the rest i haven't much to add.

 

[Max Blackoak]

...but instead became:

I know you would love me to leave the rest of your post uncommented so you could present your perspective without objection.

Firstly, houses go private the second they start to decay.

oh my bad of course I know that and I simply chose the wrong word. What I meant to say is they went from idoc to normal state during the 2nd drop window. Glad you pointed that one out so people won't get confused with how idocs work.

Secondly, they knew the accounts had been re-activated and we were trying to save them from falling.

They?! I was there with all of our gang. None of us knew anything of the sort. We were all happy that we had enough people on to keep you guys from getting the fat loot these two castles were promising. We knew you guys were there but of course we assumed that you were there to loot and place like you always are. How would we know you were trying to save someone's castles of whom we didn't even know he was a former member of GIL (was he?)?

IIRC, Calaman even said "It´s the owner" when he saw UncleSham inside the castle.

interesting...how can you listen in on our discord voice chat? I don't remember Calaman saying anything to be honest. Or are you saying he typed that in game like as text that appears over his head??? that would be the most ineffective way to pass on information to his allies because only those right next to him would see the text... we were all spread out around the castle to prevent you guys from getting near it when it would fall.

Look, IDOCing is fine. Killing during an IDOC is fine. Looting at an IDOC is fine. Preventing others from looting the fallen treasure is fine.
I´m talking about the moment the owner char is in the house again. Remember that the house is private so if someone enters it it´s the legit owner.
That is the moment I´m talking about. That is when the fork in the road appears.
Do you go right and help save the house or do you go left and do everything you can to prevent it? I know which way I would go. And yes, even for you guys...

What do I care if I see the owner of an idoc inside? Also in that particular case I didn't even see that guy until someone suddenly said in our voicechat that the castle refreshed and went back to normal.
I don't think you realize how much we are focused on killing people at idocs. There are three things we care about in a situation like that: kill everyone not with us, get the loot and ideally the castle too. Everything else is background noise. As I said we had no idea that you guys actually had access to those accounts and were able to transfer the castles. We made the connection after the fact but until then it didn't mean anything to us. So please don't expect us to know everything you guys know and make that lack of knowledge the basis of your accusations later on.

I am done talking to you to be honest because it's rather useless. As I said before I can't stand that selfrighteous attitude of yours and while you might find some people in your guild who share that attitude I doubt you're doing all the others a great favor with it. You have to realize that you can't force your view of things on others and cast everyone who disagrees with you in a negative light.

 

[Eärendil]

Sometimes I dream of the time before it all started. When we had these white net tosses and 30+ players came and we celebrated the community of Siege. Look, where we we are now. I feel sad about this. I am not accusing anyone. I just wish we would find some agreement on some points everybody could adhere to. Some moments of doing things together, in between the fights, which - of course - belong to Siege. Just some agreement. I can remember that we had this.

 

[Tjalle]

I know you would love me to leave the rest of your post uncommented so you could present your perspective without objection.




oh my bad of course I know that and I simply chose the wrong word. What I meant to say is they went from idoc to normal state during the 2nd drop window. Glad you pointed that one out so people won't get confused with how idocs work.



They?! I was there with all of our gang. None of us knew anything of the sort. We were all happy that we had enough people on to keep you guys from getting the fat loot these two castles were promising. We knew you guys were there but of course we assumed that you were there to loot and place like you always are. How would we know you were trying to save someone's castles of whom we didn't even know he was a former member of GIL (was he?)?



interesting...how can you listen in on our discord voice chat? I don't remember Calaman saying anything to be honest. Or are you saying he typed that in game like as text that appears over his head??? that would be the most ineffective way to pass on information to his allies because only those right next to him would see the text... we were all spread out around the castle to prevent you guys from getting near it when it would fall.




What do I care if I see the owner of an idoc inside? Also in that particular case I didn't even see that guy until someone suddenly said in our voicechat that the castle refreshed and went back to normal.
I don't think you realize how much we are focused on killing people at idocs. There are three things we care about in a situation like that: kill everyone not with us, get the loot and ideally the castle too. Everything else is background noise. As I said we had no idea that you guys actually had access to those accounts and were able to transfer the castles. We made the connection after the fact but until then it didn't mean anything to us. So please don't expect us to know everything you guys know and make that lack of knowledge the basis of your accusations later on.

I am done talking to you to be honest because it's rather useless. As I said before I can't stand that selfrighteous attitude of yours and while you might find some people in your guild who share that attitude I doubt you're doing all the others a great favor with it. You have to realize that you can't force your view of things on others and cast everyone who disagrees with you in a negative light.

I find it hard to believe that you guys did not know that we were gonna transfer the castles as CharGar explained it in General Chat after she was killed. I´m sure at least one of the 10+ of you saw it.
Especially since you could just taste the moment people on your side started to snap. 'Twas like watching headless chickens running around everywhere casting fields all over the place to prevent a swap.
Needless to say, you guys went left...

Hey, I´m just looking for some answers here after being called names but sticking the head in the sand seems to be a reoccuring theme on your side.

 

[Reuggan]

Yes Doc, I remember those times as well. I'm sure a lot of people do.

Did GIL used to hold more events? Yes
Did GIL used to be more active in the community? Yes

It wasn't really one thing or event that caused the rift. It's just been a bitterness that has built up over the years that has caused us to turn inwards. We are still very active, but we do our own thing now. When you have limited time to play, you are going to hunt with friends and have fun, not get involved in drama. Like Babydoll said, you get to know guildmates personally, even meeting some in person. You are going to defend them if they are in a dispute with someone else.

I am willing to do my part to restore the community feeling that we once had. I am going to have the members of GIL read over our Code of Conduct again, since it's probably been a while since most have. We will offer respect and honor to opponents, even if it is not reciprocated. We will try to be honorable in all of our dealings. We will not be perfect, but we can be better.

I am available to discuss misunderstandings or grievances with anyone. I am willing to get that community spirit back. Is anyone else?

 

[Nirot]

....
I am willing to do my part to restore the community feeling that we once had. I am going to have the members of GIL read over our Code of Conduct again, since it's probably been a while since most have. We will offer respect and honor to opponents, even if it is not reciprocated. We will try to be honorable in all of our dealings. We will not be perfect, but we can be better.

I am available to discuss misunderstandings or grievances with anyone. I am willing to get that community spirit back. Is anyone else?

I am in!!!

 

[Eärendil]

Me too! I felt some bitterness, too. Especially after the imposters and all the stuff. But I made my own mistakes and should have been more quiet. If there ist any interest, I am willing to offer public hunts again!

 

[Captn Norrington]

I love how every Siege drama thread about anything somehow inevitably ends up coming full circle back to "let's all do stuff together again! yay Siege!"

It's also kind of fascinating from a moderation perspective that you guys are the only forum on the site that manage to routinely have drama threads where nobody reports anybody else. This thread has 0 reports, but if it were in Uhall it would have had at least 3 within the first day and would have ended up locked one way or another.

 

[Victim of Siege]

I love how every Siege drama thread about anything somehow inevitably ends up coming full circle back to "let's all do stuff together again! yay Siege!"

It's also kind of fascinating from a moderation perspective that you guys are the only forum on the site that manage to routinely have drama threads where nobody reports anybody else. This thread has 0 reports, but if it were in Uhall it would have had at least 3 within the first day and would have ended up locked one way or another.

*Reports Caps post*