Warhammer Online: 15k subscribers in the US.

[Eman Resu]

That's what I'm hearing has leaked from an internal GOA meeting, along with word that GOA (publisher of the game in Europe) will be firing 50% of it's staff in a few months.

European subscriptions are supposed to be at around 80k, so it's still a little bit ahead of UO overall, but wow. In the US at least, Warhammer has managed to be less popular than UO, a 12 year old game. No, I can't link to official confirmation of this. You'll just have to either believe me or not.

If this disaster doesn't drive EA out of the MMO market completely, it's almost guaranteed that UO will still be kicking after Warhammer has been unplugged.

 

[Tinsil]

lol I believe it.

Although don't they own Bioware who is coming out with the new Star Wars Kotor MMO? I expect that to have success.

 

[JC the Builder]

If this disaster doesn't drive EA out of the MMO market completely, it's almost guaranteed that UO will still be kicking after Warhammer has been unplugged.

EA isn't stupid. If they get an MMO with ~1 million subscribers that would be a gold mine for them. Warhammer was supposed to be that game. If those numbers are true, then by every measure of the imagination it turned out to be a failure. The only saving grace is perhaps they recouped most of the development cost by selling 1.2 million boxes.

Their not going to stop trying. In fact they are gearing up for some Star Wars MMO made by Bioware with Mythic helping.

As for UO, as long as Stygian Abyss isn't terrible then things should be fine for at least a couple more years. The expansion is going to instantly boost UO's financials and should bring in some people to check out whats happening.

 

[Tinsil]

It's been almost 4 years since UO's last expansion hasn't it? It still stands strong. Really hoping SA brings more life back into the game. UO should be solid.

I expect the Star Wars one to have some success. Star Wars universe is much more popular than Warhammer Fantasy garbage.

 

[Foolio the Bard]

European subscriptions are supposed to be at around 80k, so it's still a little bit ahead of UO overall

So you're saying that UO has less than 95,000 accounts?

 

[WarderDragon]

I find those numbers to be highly suspicious.

Horizons had about 10-20k subscribers, and I can tell you right now that Warhammer Online was tremendously more successful than that mess of an MMO. Ultima Online had something like 250k subscribers as of the Age of Shadows. 15k is just unbelievably low.

 

[Stratic Fanatic]

14.99 month X 12 months X (low end...Ill say 10k subscribers) = $1,798,800

I dont see any problem with that.

 

[Coppelia]

14.99 month X 12 months X (low end...Ill say 10k subscribers) = $1,798,800

I dont see any problem with that.

It totally depends on the cost of server and staff. That's generally where the development team is in danger, because you can't cut the budget for server and support staff too much, it's the base.

 

[wee papa smurf]

I really hope SA is a big succes as im hoping, the screenies i've seen look sweet

 

[wrekognize]

Makes sense as to why Mark stepped down recently. even though I never cared to try the game, I would have liked to see it do better. As long as UO holds its ground i'm happy.

Edit: I did some research a while back on the WAR boards and posted this a while back. This was in its second or third active month.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=108843

 

[Uriah Heep]

*opinion only*

EA/mythic is sitting on the best game there is. But because of it's age, they refuse to accept that it still has potential.
Had they invested all that money into improving, advertising, and adding to UO, instead of Warhammer, just think what they could have had.
And KR just wasn't it folks, a hastily rushed thrown out the door client that won't even let you set something on the ground...
I'm talking real improvement/fixes.
In my mind, I am fairly certain the "failure" (depends on how ya define it) of Warhammer was a large factor in Mark's departure.If we wanted to play a game like WoW, we would already be playing it. If we wanted wide open free for all like Darkfall, we would already be playing it. The wide open sandbox of UO is still the best option out there.

Let em develop KoTOR, more power to em. But instead of having the mindset that SA is make or break for UO, Let it be the building block, the foundation for new easier to modify server code, an even improved client (since the Gamebryo can be modified easily, supposedly) and starting with SA build UO into the killer game it has always had to power to be.

/end opinion
/end rant

 

[Favith]

I played Warhammer since Beta up until about 2 months ago when I left it---for UO (again).

The game was just fundamentally flawed on so many levels--it was bound to see sharp drops in numbers after the initial "ooh-ahh" factor wore off after launch.

Mark needed to step down--he and some of the senior dev team were the main reasons why the community was so f'in pissed at Mythic. We all had high hopes that Mark KNEW what worked from DAOC and what didn't and would have imported some of the more successful DAOC features into WAR, but for some strange reason that didn't happen. It also didn't help that certain high profile Mythic devs kept running thier mouths to various game publications badmouthing the WAR player community. *shrug*

The recent expansion (downloaded content, not a new retail box) was a step in the right direction but it was too little, too late. And the way they implemented it only pissed people off more. Go figure.

I would imagine that the people left playing WAR now are loyalists to that game the way many of the people still playing UO are loyalists to this game. There's *something* about this game that we love and it keeps us here (or coming back periodically). WAR will do that for a certain group...but I doubt it will see many new subscribers.


It won't surpise me at all if they pull the plug on WAR long before they pull the plug on UO.

 

[Splup]

I tried Warhammer online, it was WoW with different graphics... Why would ppl change from game where they already have decent chars to exactly same game where they have to make chars again?

You can steal players by making a better game, not by making the same game.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Let em develop KoTOR, more power to em. But instead of having the mindset that SA is make or break for UO, Let it be the building block, the foundation for new easier to modify server code, an even improved client (since the Gamebryo can be modified easily, supposedly) and starting with SA build UO into the killer game it has always had to power to be.

Uriah, while I agree with you let me just add on to your rant a little bit by saying the only way UO will be able to be improved is if the player base will take to the new client. The main problem with UO is it needs two major coding upgrades, server and client, with that being the case they have to settle the client issue before they can fix the server issue (it is pointless to make the server run right when the client will fail to interact with it) What they should be doing (if they are not already) is preparing to rewrite the server code and the SA client code (assuming the client is accepted by the player base) this will allow for UO to be expanded, upgraded, and fixed.

I will now state my opinion. I can not be sure if most of the players cheat or not, but I know no cheater wants the client to be updated, and if enough people cheat to keep the client from being upgraded then that is where our problem is, what they need to do is just go ahead and make the new client and server and scrap the old one, people who actually enjoy playing the game will keep playing. KR was a failure, it was not finished on released it also was not very resource friendly, but I do have to say people...one of my computers is 9 years old and it could run KR...Sure it wasn't blazing fast and multi-tasking was out of the question, but how many people actually have a 9 year old computer here? I do not understand why people complain that they can not run KR. But aside from serious technical issues, everyone should be willing to upgrade to a new and better client (unless of course you cheat...cuase then you wont be able to)

It is not like what I am saying is really "news" and it is not like it is easy either, but if SA is a hit, it should not take them more than 2 years to rewrite the code for the server and the SA client, and release them together making everything before this new "expansion" obsolete and unusable. If people want the game to survive they have to be willing to let go of the reason that it fails, the client.

 

[Saris]

BTW but what the hell did happen with mythic and boiware and how does it effect mythic games? Is it BIO-Mythic or .. lol

This could be a good think for UO as well but I dobt it.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

BTW but what the hell did happen with mythic and boiware and how does it effect mythic games? Is it BIO-Mythic or .. lol

This could be a good think for UO as well but I dobt it.

They merged the two "companies" into one...more or less the same crap EA does with all the companies they own, except now they are merging two that are not identical....Bio-ware is an RPG and Mythic is an MMO, now they form the RPG-MMO group with in EA....Not sure that will make any more sense to you than it does to me, but...I have no clue as to what they are calling it.

 

[sirrojen]

I really hope SA is a big succes as im hoping, the screenies i've seen look sweet

I am in the closed beta and of course under NDA so I can't say much, but I don't think EA will get too mad if I tell you it's totally freaking awesome and I think it will bring a lot of new players in! Tons of new content, skills, magic, gargoyles etc!

I can't wait for release, but I do hope they take all the time they need to do it right the first time!

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I am in the closed beta and of course under NDA so I can't say much, but I don't think EA will get too mad

Actually...Stating your opinion on it is against the NDA, may want to edit your post =\

 

[Uriah Heep]

Well, C&D, I'm no tech. I'm excited when I can boot my computer up!
But seriously, there are very few who will say that KR was any kind of improvement, and of those few, if you got right down to it, they say that not because it was an improvement, but because it had the potential to be improved.
Bring SA out, when it's ready, and not a moment before.
As they learned last time, you get ONE chance to make a first impression, the impression that stays with someone forever.
and when it's released, take a couple or three of these Devs who's time has been spent on SA exclusively, and just assign them to re-writing server side code, with documentation and rems, they might even be able to plug it in in chunks, instead of having to wait till the whole thing is done.
Either way, if they can make the gameplay and freedom of UO modern and flashy, they will ahve an even bigger winner than they do now

Whatever resources they plan to allocate to developing a fantasy medieval roleplay MMO in the future, should be immediately diverted to UO to do just these items.
And quit wasting money and resources worrying about competing with WoW, and work on a long term plan for growth for UO.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Well, C&D, I'm no tech. I'm excited when I can boot my computer up!
But seriously, there are very few who will say that KR was any kind of improvement, and of those few, if you got right down to it, they say that not because it was an improvement, but because it had the potential to be improved.

Well, I wont say it was an improvement either (I still can not use it due to an issue only I seem to have with the enter key toggling full screen mode. -.-) But my point is that while the look and "feel" of KR was very much different than UO, it was a coding improvement. Sure it needed work, and they released it like a year before they should have, but still....My point about people having to let go of the thing that holds UO back is still true. I do not like KR very much due to the problems I have with it (again, enter key) and I am not to fond of how it looks, or rather how it "feels" but I would be willing to use it 100% of the time if it was all we had (as long as I could get the enter key thing fixed, cuase really..not being able to chat destroys the game for me. ) blah I am not really a KR supporter....but I am all for anything that improves the game, and KR could have if it was released when ready, had more testing done and more feedback and such, but the way it ended up being is just sour. But a lot of people have already dismissed SA before they have even seen it, and those are the people I am talking about.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Well, C&D, I'm no tech. I'm excited when I can boot my computer up!
But seriously, there are very few who will say that KR was any kind of improvement, and of those few, if you got right down to it, they say that not because it was an improvement, but because it had the potential to be improved.

Well, I wont say it was an improvement either (I still can not use it due to an issue only I seem to have with the enter key toggling full screen mode. -.-) But my point is that while the look and "feel" of KR was very much different than UO, it was a coding improvement. Sure it needed work, and they released it like a year before they should have, but still....My point about people having to let go of the thing that holds UO back is still true. I do not like KR very much due to the problems I have with it (again, enter key) and I am not to fond of how it looks, or rather how it "feels" but I would be willing to use it 100% of the time if it was all we had (as long as I could get the enter key thing fixed, cuase really..not being able to chat destroys the game for me. ) blah I am not really a KR supporter....but I am all for anything that improves the game, and KR could have if it was released when ready, had more testing done and more feedback and such, but the way it ended up being is just sour. But a lot of people have already dismissed SA before they have even seen it, and those are the people I am talking about.[/QUOTE]

/agreed

I for one am excited about SA. I believe they learned the last time, they can't just toss us any old bone and us be happy, that we DO expect better.
And for that reason alone, I am willing to wait for it, if it takes months longer than they said it would.

Anyway, to the OP, sorry for derailing your thread...

 

[sirrojen]

Actually...Stating your opinion on it is against the NDA, may want to edit your post =\

Actually considering you quoted me there even if I did change it it would be too late, but SA is really great and you should all preorder it and buy it asap~!

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Actually considering you quoted me there even if I did change it it would be too late

Hmm..I guess you are right but I can easily remove the quote

 

[sirrojen]

Hmm..I guess you are right but I can easily remove the quote

LOL now your just plain evil quoting me! Do you work for the tabloids?

 

[Petra Fyde]

Let's be a bit careful hmm? What you've said so far is public knowledge from the SA site, let's not say anything else, oki?

 

[sirrojen]

Let's be a bit careful hmm? What you've said so far is public knowledge from the SA site, let's not say anything else, oki?

Understood