[UO Herald] Producer Holiday Update

[Cloak&Dagger]

Once again, if the 2D client disapears so will I. It is also my opinion that most of the people with jobs and careers will leave aswell. Even though our jobs take us away from the game at times, we continue to pay our accounts every month. We are probably the ones who actually keep this game funded.


Apossed to (but not picking on) those who live with their parents, are struggling to pay their way through college, or those happy working fast food as long as they have cool graphics and a quarter sac to come home to. Simply getting grounded and parents refusing to pay the account that month, having to choose between bills and game time, or having to choose between game time and a quarter sac are a drain to the game.


The more time and resources spent on graphics rather than game play, will run the main funding base for this game off. It will be left to actually competeing in graphics, rather than having its game play, which is what makes this game what it is. Graphics will have to be updated every 6 months inorder to keep up with the latest games. Therefor making this game just like the others. Where people pay their accounts for 3 months, inorder to see the new graphics and then head on to the next game.



I am not apposed to spicier options for the game hoppers, but DO NOT JACK WITH MY 2D CLIENT.

This is all BS Banter and Rage. Seriously, none of anything you say has anything to do with anything you are trying to discuss. Even your slang ending is not "proper".

An art update every...I dunno, 10 years or so is all any GOOD (HUGE emphasis on good) game needs to "keep up", you are not trying to woo new customers ever 6 months (although it is nice to be able to do this, but it is usually done by Word of Mouth or real advertising, what was the last WoW art overhaul? When was the last time you got a person to play UO and keep playing?)

You just annoy and agitate me. I hope they get rid of the 2d client and its terrible technology so you and people like you will no longer be around to stop progress just so they can be appeased and play on their 12 year old computer, or cheat, or act as if the 2d graphics are beautiful (given the option some high res nice color depth 2d copies would be preferred to me but that would take a ton of time, and no real artist wants to critique older work, they want to put their own mark on the world they work on.)

Simple logic and understanding of gaming, or business, or social economics would have you either 1) not posting because you know it is idiotic or wrong, or b) agreeing that UO is not capable of lasting to long in its current state (mostly graphical but some bugs and finishing some game mechanics that are half done would help too)

 

[Woodsman]

Once again, if the 2D client disapears so will I. It is also my opinion that most of the people with jobs and careers will leave aswell.

I dunno, most people with jobs and careers can afford computers made in the last five years and would probably prefer to play games that look like they were made in the last five years rather than the 1990s

Apossed to (but not picking on) those who live with their parents, are struggling to pay their way through college, or those happy working fast food as long as they have cool graphics and a quarter sac to come home to. Simply getting grounded and parents refusing to pay the account that month, having to choose between bills and game time, or having to choose between game time and a quarter sac are a drain to the game.

How old do you think the average age of the UO player is?

The more time and resources spent on graphics rather than game play, will run the main funding base for this game off.

Are you saying that UO does not currently have gameplay, because I happen to think it does have gameplay and plenty of it, possibly more than the vast majority of other MMOs. Gameplay and depth is not a problem. Getting people to see that it has gameplay and depth is a real problem, and graphics are a part of bringing people in. Like Dermott said, the two are not mutually exclusive and there is no reason to believe otherwise.

I am not apposed to spicier options for the game hoppers, but DO NOT JACK WITH MY 2D CLIENT.

They said they weren't going to put the CC on a timer anymore.

 

[MySavannahRanger]

I have no intention of changing or removing any of my comments, however i will try to clarify a few for you. I seemed to have struck a personal nerve with you.
My second sentence states that it is my opinion. Aside from stuggling to put myself threw college, I have lived the other life styles. Having a job and career refers to the ability to pay ones account and being reliable funding for the game. They were not intended as stereotypes, just generalizations, and for anyone to assume that this means everyone falls into one of those groups, without deviation, would be their own fault. Graphics and game play are not hand in hand. Im not after pretty pictures, im into the funtions and the player to player interactions.
Please let me know if you need and more clarifications.

 

[Nexus]

Once again, if the 2D client disapears so will I. It is also my opinion that most of the people with jobs and careers will leave aswell. Even though our jobs take us away from the game at times, we continue to pay our accounts every month. We are probably the ones who actually keep this game funded.


Apossed to (but not picking on) those who live with their parents, are struggling to pay their way through college, or those happy working fast food as long as they have cool graphics and a quarter sac to come home to. Simply getting grounded and parents refusing to pay the account that month, having to choose between bills and game time, or having to choose between game time and a quarter sac are a drain to the game.


The more time and resources spent on graphics rather than game play, will run the main funding base for this game off. It will be left to actually competeing in graphics, rather than having its game play, which is what makes this game what it is. Graphics will have to be updated every 6 months inorder to keep up with the latest games. Therefor making this game just like the others. Where people pay their accounts for 3 months, inorder to see the new graphics and then head on to the next game.



I am not apposed to spicier options for the game hoppers, but DO NOT JACK WITH MY 2D CLIENT.

But but, your 2D client is jacking with the ability to modernise and revitalise the game!

UO needs to be overhauled, either with the current game or a true squeal. I'm in favor of either one, UO has a lot of mistakes (at least as far as the MMO Design community thinks) that are so deeply ingrained I don't know if they can be fixed. But either way, I can't see UO lasting another 13 years without something being done to bring it into the modern market.

If that means dropping the CC onto life support (bug fixes and minimal updates) then so be it. It's not about what I want or what you want, it's about what would be best for UO. Right now hanging on to an outdated client and focusing on compatibility for 2 clients with as small a staff (7 folks not counting QA, World Builders, Art, and Producers at least by the High Seas credits) as they have is absurd.

Limiting the EC in terms of what it can do, to support a 13 year old client is absurd, people gripe about all the issues with the EC. I don't doubt half the issues are because of how it has to operate in order to work with a server that has to send data to different client types and keep everything tracked properly. Basically they had to ****** the EC so the CC would still work and now we are paying for it.

Like I said I'm not against the CC, I just think that it shouldn't be allowed to limit any attempts to modernise UO. So what if people leave, if a Client was released that would be both visually appealing and solid in performance then UO could draw players to replace those it lost and then some. If the game takes a hit in revenue for 2-3 months to catch on then all's good if 50-75k new people join to replace those who would leave, and not everyone would jump ship. I bet there are a bunch of closet WoW players that would love to see UO be able to give them their Pixel Fix.

Graphics don't need updated every 6 months, but they do need updated every 5 year or so, UO even with the EC is still in the 90's, it is WAY overdue.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I have no intention of changing or removing any of my comments, however i will try to clarify a few for you. I seemed to have struck a personal nerve with you.
My second sentence states that it is my opinion. Aside from stuggling to put myself threw college, I have lived the other life styles. Having a job and career refers to the ability to pay ones account and being reliable funding for the game. They were not intended as stereotypes, just generalizations, and for anyone to assume that this means everyone falls into one of those groups, without deviation, would be their own fault. Graphics and game play are not hand in hand. Im not after pretty pictures, im into the funtions and the player to player interactions.
Please let me know if you need and more clarifications.

You just performed the worst mistake anyone in a debate can, you killed your argument.

"Graphics and game play are not hand in hand. I'm into functions and player to player interaction" Guess what? Removing the 2d client would in fact improve all 4 of those points you just stated. Moving on?

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

That's about as clear as used motor oil.

Any of us who have played UO for a decent amount of time have gone through quite a few life changes. I've played UO since 1998, so I won't go into the whole spiel, but I will say that I have quite a nice job with a good salary working with upwards of millions of dollars a day in precious metals and rare items, own a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house, a paid for 2011 Genesis coupe, and have had no problem not only adapting to each new UO client as it was released, but also learning how to develop graphical UI themes for the KR and Enhanced clients that have helped people to enjoy those clients more than by using the default options.

The other people who have done the same as I also are gainfully and well employed and have had no problem not only playing the new client but developing for it on their own time as well.

In fact the new client HELPS gameplay by simplifying many aspects of the game compared to the 2d client and with the legal UI mods and themes, goes even further with more options and information more easily available.

As for graphics and gameplay, I did not say they were "hand in hand", but that they are NOT mutually exclusive. Meaning that to have one does NOT mean you have to forgo the other.

UO can and should have both, and based on your posts, I do have to agree with C&D above that UO would be better off without that kind of attitude.

I don't mind which client people want to use UNTIL they reach this level of insanity about it.

Use the 2d client if you want, but realize that a 13-14 year old client with an archaic UI almost requiring an external hack program (according to many) to function properly is NOT going to win over any converts in today's MMOG market.

Instead people should wake up and realize that 1024x768 is closer to the resolution of someone's phone than it is to their desktop or even laptop computer these days and UO needs to be revamped to take that into account... thus the artwork update.

 

[MySavannahRanger]

I do not disagree, however i love the game as it is. I am not apposed to better graphics, for new income. But, ill try to say it simply and in a nonoffencive manner- If the 2d client (as i know it) disapears, then so will I. It is also my oppinion many other people will leave aswell, and this game will turn into the same games that everyone complains about when it comes to the thought actually put behind the gameplay.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I do not disagree, however i love the game as it is. I am not apposed to better graphics, for new income. But, ill try to say it simply and in a nonoffencive manner- If the 2d client (as i know it) disapears, then so will I. It is also my oppinion many other people will leave aswell, and this game will turn into the same games that everyone complains about when it comes to the thought actually put behind the gameplay.

Because you believe the Art team should work on "content and game play"? We have 1 person in art that I know of, of course we "share" resources with all the other Bioware/Mythic games, but we have 1 dedicated person for art, HE WILL NEVER work on game play, no matter what you think his time should be spent doing his position, creating better looking graphics and animations. To assume that an increase in the way the game looks would kill game play is just as ridiculous as stating all the people with careers will quit. In fact, most of the people who would quit are those who do not pay for the game themselves if anything.

"I am not against people playing the 2d client but if they don't get rid of it tomorrow I will quit, and I know at least 5,000 people who are with me!"

See how ridiculous it sounds?

 

[MySavannahRanger]

Well once again, i stated it was my opinion.
There is no doubt that i am lacking in the technological skills needed to carry on a conversation or debate with any of you. I will bow out. It is my "opinion" that what any of us say will not matter. The higher powers will do whats in their best interest.
I am heading back to play the game i love while it still exists. Later tonight i will digg up and dust off my old game systems. That way i have something that i can keep up with when the 2D client and the game as i know it comes to an end.

 

[Kojak]

don't you people realize that if they get rid of the 2d client, so many people are going to quit that you won't even have a game left to play - it'll be shut down in a week

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

don't you people realize that if they get rid of the 2d client, so many people are going to quit that you won't even have a game left to play - it'll be shut down in a week

Never have had a game shut down in a week. Never mind a good portion of people are paying on a 6 month schedule, means at least that long to build up a new population. Never mind it is not that costly to keep the game running, so they could improve on it with out shutting it down also. Could give more if you like....

Half the people who play would switch if they had no other choices, that alone would keep it up. Never mind how many people have quit over the years due to the 2d client though, that escapes you entirely I am sure.

All numbers above are conservative, so everything could in fact be greater/longer/better than I proposed.

 

[Slayvite]

The only thing that stops me playing the EC isn't the 'different feeling' control, nor is it the grainy graphics or unfinished touch-ups. It isn't even the fact that their are more bugs in the EC than their are in the CC.

It's the fact i can only play for about an hour before i have a raging head-ache. Yes i've done the tweaks and no it's not my system (i run on a 1 year old Alienwear)
I don't wear glasses nor do i need them, their is just something fundamentally wrong with the EC that causes eye-strain.

 

[Madrid]

don't you people realize that if they get rid of the 2d client, so many people are going to quit that you won't even have a game left to play - it'll be shut down in a week

Thing is those people are leaving anyways meanwhile were not attracting any new players.

People don't want UO to change or upgrade but some of these same people are the running off to play WoW or Rift because of the more modern graphics.

The 2d client can burn in hell! I am so effin sick of that client and having to have it's ****ty graphics incorporated into the EC.

IF UOKR or these new art upgrades aren't incorporated into the game by years end I will probably take a hiatus from the game until some positive change is taken to make the graphics better. UO with KR is better than what we have now with the exception of what Pinco has done.

When they announced what was originally introduced as the SA client I was anticipating something on the scale of Titan Quest with even better than KR graphics. Instead we got a KR Client with 2d graphics.

The Devs have bent over backwards trying to appease 2ders for years on end now and in doing so were short sighted and really shot UO in the foot.

The 2d Jurassics players are a plague to the future of this game. I would much rather say goodbye to all the jurassics and welcome in a new group of players.

 

[HD2300]

The 2d client can burn in hell! I am so effin sick of that client and having to have it's ****ty graphics incorporated into the EC.

...
When they announced what was originally introduced as the SA client I was anticipating something on the scale of Titan Quest with even better than KR graphics...

The EC is a 2D client. NetDragon is making a real 3D UO client. That is the future for UO.

If EA can make an agreement with NetDragon to use a real 3D UO client in Asia, they can also come to mutually beneficial agreement in the rest of the world.

 

[Barok]

If EA can make an agreement with NetDragon to use a real 3D UO client in Asia, they can also come to mutually beneficial agreement in the rest of the world.

It's highly probably that NetDragon is writing completely new server/client code, therefore the protocols and stuff will be completely different and their client won't have a snowballs chance in h**l of working on EA's servers.

 

[whiterabbit]

GUNGA FOR KING

 

[Madrid]

The EC is a 2D client. NetDragon is making a real 3D UO client. That is the future for UO.

If EA can make an agreement with NetDragon to use a real 3D UO client in Asia, they can also come to mutually beneficial agreement in the rest of the world.

Well the current 2D clients can go wayside. I like the isometric view.

I don't want UO to look like WoW or EQ personally but if that's what will make it a huge success then I'd be okay with it and I'd adapt.

I'm not sure what Iron Lore had with Titan Quest..if that was a 2d or 3D but that is the direction I would like to have seen UO take.

NetDragon that's the chinese company that bought rights to UO a few years back right?

It'd be interesting to see what they end up doing. Is it going to be a 3 Kingdoms style UO game? Wonder what they have in mind...

 

[Woodsman]

don't you people realize that if they get rid of the 2d client, so many people are going to quit that you won't even have a game left to play - it'll be shut down in a week

Back when the devs used to put the CC client on a timer, this was an issue. As of this year, they have now said they have no intention of putting the CC on a timer so this argument doesn't even make any sense anymore.

Thing is those people are leaving anyways meanwhile were not attracting any new players.

That is the biggest problem with UO. I know UO gets a little boost every now and then for nostaglia's sake from returning players or people who are just curious, but UO needs new players that stick around for years.

UO does best when it has a good influx of new players who spend the time learning the game. They help replace people who leave the game to play other MMOs or because they are bored or have to stop playing due to real life issues.

The EC is a 2D client. NetDragon is making a real 3D UO client. That is the future for UO.

If EA can make an agreement with NetDragon to use a real 3D UO client in Asia, they can also come to mutually beneficial agreement in the rest of the world.

What you are talking about is a completely different game with completely different server code that will never work with the UO we are playing. You might as well be advertising for an MMO from another company. Seriously, do you work for NetDragon because I've seen you bring this up several times as if you have inside knowledge rather than reading the tagline on the bottom of their financial reports, a tagline that hasn't changed in a few years.

 

[Theo_GL]

Oh I know, but still it's sad the old id tech 3 (the graphics engine for Quake 3) is almost as old as UO is (1999'ish), yet back then it was possible to create things that well to be honest put the EC to shame. Yes it's 3d not 2d isometric, yet if I can do this in my free time, alone what can experienced world builders (I say experienced considering I've been dabbling with map building all of 4 days) with access to superior tools accomplish?

That's the whole point of my post, why in 14 years haven't we see anything that lives up to that quality of work done to UO? The resources have been there, they've been there a long time, how come no one has exploited them yet?

If you take out all the houses and items in houses - then yes, easy to port to 3d. The biggest problem UO has is a world where you can create/customize a house and put crap all over it. The graphic code to render all that on the fly is difficult in 3d.

All the games you mention have fairly static worlds. They don't have thousands of cusomizations that come via private housing.

Take out housing (ala Wow) and then its easy. Wanna give up your house?

 

[Woodsman]

But but, your 2D client is jacking with the ability to modernise and revitalise the game!

UO needs to be overhauled, either with the current game or a true squeal. I'm in favor of either one, UO has a lot of mistakes (at least as far as the MMO Design community thinks) that are so deeply ingrained I don't know if they can be fixed. But either way, I can't see UO lasting another 13 years without something being done to bring it into the modern market.

I had looked forward to UO2 at one point, especially as there were hints that you could bring some stuff/characters over from the original UO, but it was going to be a completely different game. A lot of what was in UO2 ended up in Warcraft and other MMOs.

It would be awesome to have a modern UO, maybe based on the MMO engine that the Star Wars MMO is based on, which is apparently developer friendly. I've read that it allows developers and designers to work side-by-side within the game world and see what the other designers/devs are doing in real time.

On the other hand, any sequel would not be the UO we currently have - there are things within UO that I don't think developers would be keen to replicate in a sequel.

 

[Nexus]

If you take out all the houses and items in houses - then yes, easy to port to 3d. The biggest problem UO has is a world where you can create/customize a house and put crap all over it. The graphic code to render all that on the fly is difficult in 3d.

All the games you mention have fairly static worlds. They don't have thousands of cusomizations that come via private housing.

Take out housing (ala Wow) and then its easy. Wanna give up your house?

A better solution would be to switch to instanced housing in a 3d game, though it's not really necessary. Many MMO's do offer housing either instanced or not, LOTRO, Atlantica Online, SWG, Anarchy Online, Final Fantasy XI, and Everquest 2 are examples. SWG uses Static Housing like UO does, not instanced. So no giving up a house isn't necessary.

 

[Nexus]

It would be awesome to have a modern UO, maybe based on the MMO engine that the Star Wars MMO is based on

SW:toR? Yea it's using Hero Engine, you can get a sandbox account on their site and use their design tools (modified to only let you connect and work on the sandbox server) to evaluate, or they even let groups of developers completely design a game for Free on their own servers, you only pay for licensing when you are ready to launch it, or pay a licensing fee + royalties for them to host and manage the game server, which is a great system for new groups wanting to get into the business. Design a game, create a demo to help sell the Idea to a publisher, or self publish it letting them handle the server maintenance and upkeep then pay as you work on getting it set to distribute, plus royalties depending on the route you go.