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NEWS [UO.Com] Developer Meet & Greet Workshop

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Greetings All, This Monday, February 8, 2016 from 9pm – 11pm ET we will be having one of our bi-weekly meet and greets. We encourage everyone to join us on Pacific to share your ideas with what you’d like to see coming in our future publishes for 2016. Are you passionate about a unicorn rainbow kitten? Have you always wanted to walk your pet wombat? Let us know what’s on your wishlist! If you can’t make it to one of our meet and greets you can always email us at [email protected] with your suggestions. We look forward to seeing you on […]

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kelmo

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Dread Lord
*shakes head*
 

Dot_Warner

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Well, Dot, what good can you say about these pseudo events? Someone at least amused us....albeit in a very strange way :)
Heh. It's good that the M&Gs happen at all and that players get to see the devs and even talk to them. However, sometimes the communication during them sucks...from both sides. Poorly worded or barely coherent player questions, or vague and sometimes overly defensive dev responses tend to drag them down. They're a grab bag.

But...communication, of any kind, is better than none. We just need more of it.
 

Ansel

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Heh. It's good that the M&Gs happen at all and that players get to see the devs and even talk to them. However, sometimes the communication during them sucks...from both sides. Poorly worded or barely coherent player questions, or vague and sometimes overly defensive dev responses tend to drag them down. They're a grab bag.
,"
But...communication, of any kind, is better than none. We just need more of it.
I understand the whole something's-better-than-nothing fallacy quite well. I say fallacy because the "something" in most cases, not just this game, is usually an illusion.....in this case an illusion of communication.

That's pretty easy to pull off. Words are exchanged after a fashion. An occasionally something comes of it.....say, a pirate flag....a pirate flag with "Better late than never" on it - very arrrrh and pirate like. Very something's better than nothing ;)

Pardon my tone, Dot. Good communication between developers and players is extremely difficult to achieve. Engineers and artists often have difficulty expressing themselves in words. The Meet and Greet format can have a folksy, down to earth feel to it, especially in a game like this with too many servers, each ranging from an outpost, to a hamlet, to a village, to, in one case perhaps, a town.

What we WANT is the spirit expressed in your avatar I suppose :)
 

Uvtha

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Greetings All, This Monday, February 8, 2016 from 9pm – 11pm ET we will be having one of our bi-weekly meet and greets. We encourage everyone to join us on Pacific to share your ideas with what you’d like to see coming in our future publishes for 2016. Are you passionate about a unicorn rainbow kitten? Have you always wanted to walk your pet wombat? Let us know what’s on your wishlist! If you can’t make it to one of our meet and greets you can always email us at [email protected] with your suggestions. We look forward to seeing you on […]

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@FrejaSP Here's your chance, buddy. :p
 

DJAd

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I won't be able to attend due to the timezone difference. Would somebody please ask what is going on with the account management for me.

Cheers.
 

Uriah Heep

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Someone ask if BoDs are ever gonna be assigned points, where they and their rewards are handled like the cleanup Brit point system? This would make all of them worth doing, for a change.

Someone ask if crafters doing bods will ever be able to put the bod, their tool, and their materials in one subpack, and when all the items are made have the bod do a "load from pack" to save us having to do 20 clicks to load the goods into the bod. (it only searches the pack the bod is in, therefore your mainpack and items are safe).

Will there ever be another source to get bones for tailoring, besides buying 20 at a time from the Mystic in the Royal City, and a dozen or so from sos's or the red spawn in the Holy City?

Will bod books ever be fixed to work locked down or in a chest like SoT and SoA books?

Will the timers for IDOCs ever be fixed, to a reasonable standard time...or is this playstyle permanently ruined?

T-chest loot has quite obviously been turned down, whether by accident or on purpose, is this permanent?

Is there any chance at a "Treasure Map binder" similar to what we have for PS's and SoTs, to give us a use for all the low level maps? And if so, can the numbers required be reasonable numbers, unlike the numbers required to take a 105 PS to 120?
 

MalagAste

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@Uriah Heep If you want bones you might make friends with a Fisherman. Fishermen fish up bones all the time. I cut them up and give them to my Tailors. Perhaps you might talk to local fishermen and work out some kind of deal.
 

Angel of Sonoma

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...

Will there ever be another source to get bones for tailoring, besides buying 20 at a time from the Mystic in the Royal City, and a dozen or so from sos's or the red spawn in the Holy City?
you can also get lots of bones by killing shadow wisps near spirituality ilsh.

i wish we could recycle bone armor like all other armor to get the bones back.
 

Hannes Erich

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I understand the whole something's-better-than-nothing fallacy quite well. I say fallacy because the "something" in most cases, not just this game, is usually an illusion.....in this case an illusion of communication. [...] What we WANT is the spirit expressed in your avatar I suppose [BCOLOR=rgb(16, 16, 16)]:)[/BCOLOR]
I'm usually fond of whichever argument best appeals to reason, and in many cases that's your posts Ansel, but not this time. I see the devs get ragged on after a lot of the meet and greets because they don't sing every suggestion's praises right then and there, but that's not really fair, is it? Who's to decide which suggestion deserves immediate and public praise? You? Mesanna? The guy asking for timers to be removed, the gal begging for a loot table to be looked at, or for Trammel to be removed? Don't you think all three of those people might think their suggestion is the bee's knees?

Mesanna takes most of the questions because she's the producer. There isn't a community rep. If I were in charge of hiring, I probably wouldn't put a CR on a 20-year-old game either; not if I wanted to keep my job probably--sorry not sorry. Ugly fact is, whether a producer has a good bedside manner has little to do with their job as a producer. Whether a captain can run a ship has little bearing on how well they can communicate with its passengers (that'd be us in this analogy).

Meet and greets are usually fine if you take them for what they are. The "singing praises" part must come much later, after analysis has been made not only of the apparent value of any suggestion, but of its feasibility and of available resources. None of that can or should typically happen at a meet and greet, lest we perceive promises where there shouldn't be any.

This community still pines for days when trained reps handled us with mittens, and there's nothing wrong with that except for the fact that it's time to get over it. Have none of you ever followed a small indie studio? Like a few guys who can program like geniuses but know zip about customers or, you know, humans? You just have to suck it up and make your requests. You'll know if they liked it when you see it in the game. Welcome to game development south of AAA. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

All I want out of the community meet and greets is for some devs to show up, answer some questions, log the chat so they can make a list of the suggestions LATER and talk about it in some meetings LATER. We're all adults here by now I'm sure; many of the meet and greets are probably dismal from their perspective too. Or have you not heard some of the inanity that players bring to the those?
 

Hannes Erich

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They should be ashamed of their communications outside of the game however, such as the newsletter and website. *Wags finger* (Kudos to them for stepping back up to the plate.)
 

Ansel

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I'm usually fond of whichever argument best appeals to reason, and in many cases that's your posts Ansel, but not this time. I see the devs get ragged on after a lot of the meet and greets because they don't sing every suggestion's praises right then and there, but that's not really fair, is it? Who's to decide which suggestion deserves immediate and public praise? You? Mesanna? The guy asking for timers to be removed, the gal begging for a loot table to be looked at, or for Trammel to be removed? Don't you think all three of those people might think their suggestion is the bee's knees?

Mesanna takes most of the questions because she's the producer. There isn't a community rep. If I were in charge of hiring, I probably wouldn't put a CR on a 20-year-old game either; not if I wanted to keep my job probably--sorry not sorry. Ugly fact is, whether a producer has a good bedside manner has little to do with their job as a producer. Whether a captain can run a ship has little bearing on how well they can communicate with its passengers (that'd be us in this analogy).

Meet and greets are usually fine if you take them for what they are. The "singing praises" part must come much later, after analysis has been made not only of the apparent value of any suggestion, but of its feasibility and of available resources. None of that can or should typically happen at a meet and greet, lest we perceive promises where there shouldn't be any.

This community still pines for days when trained reps handled us with mittens, and there's nothing wrong with that except for the fact that it's time to get over it. Have none of you ever followed a small indie studio? Like a few guys who can program like geniuses but know zip about customers or, you know, humans? You just have to suck it up and make your requests. You'll know if they liked it when you see it in the game. Welcome to game development south of AAA. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

All I want out of the community meet and greets is for some devs to show up, answer some questions, log the chat so they can make a list of the suggestions LATER and talk about it in some meetings LATER. We're all adults here by now I'm sure; many of the meet and greets are probably dismal from their perspective too. Or have you not heard some of the inanity that players bring to the those?
Sorry, Hannes, but I'm struggling to see where we disagree. :confused: Your points are self evident and my remarks were not at odds with them.

I guess I just don't get the whole singing praises part....plus I noted how developers are communication challenged almost by definition. Their languages are C, C++, C-Sharp and such....not languages of diplomacy.
 

Hannes Erich

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@Ansel you have my apologies for misunderstanding, but by your use of the word illusion I thought you were labeling the meet and greets an empty gesture. So what I was trying to say was, no, I think they're basically working as intended: we line up to say some stuff; and they take note of what we say, and that's basically it. That's the extent of the communication, not very epic (edit: and not designed to be epic), but no illusion. And I think they serve the purpose for which they are intended. I think you do, in a roundabout way, understand my singing praises comment--because even putting diplomacy aside (itself a sizable obstacle between many programmers and gamers), you know that developers are often trained not to give out meaningful feedback off the cuff; our "feedback" usually arrives in a patch note or other official statement that's been put through meetings and QA and maybe a Marketing sieve, not at some in-game thing.

It's actually a relief to see we're on the same page, because I know you've been where the devs sit. But I think many might disagree that my points are self-evident, otherwise the meet and greets would not receive as much undo criticism as they do on these boards. I think many people want them to be a sort of meeting or conference between the players and the devs, a chance to hash things out and have a discussion where decisions or commitments could be made; and of course most meet and greets would be disappointing to anyone who holds them to such a misguided standard.
 
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Ansel

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@Ansel you have my apologies for misunderstanding, but by your use of the word illusion I thought you were labeling the meet and greets an empty gesture. So what I was trying to say was, no, I think they're basically working as intended: we line up to say some stuff; and they take note of what we say, and that's basically it. That's the extent of the communication, not very epic (edit: and not designed to be epic), but no illusion. And I think they serve the purpose for which they are intended. I think you do, in a roundabout way, understand my singing praises comment--because even putting diplomacy aside (itself a sizable obstacle between many programmers and gamers), you know that developers are often trained not to give out meaningful feedback off the cuff; our "feedback" usually arrives in a patch note or other official statement that's been put through meetings and QA and maybe a Marketing sieve, not at some in-game thing.

It's actually a relief to see we're on the same page, because I know you've been where the devs sit. But I think many might disagree that my points are self-evident, otherwise the meet and greets would not receive as much undo criticism as they do on these boards. I think many people want them to be a sort of meeting or conference between the players and the devs, a chance to hash things out and have a discussion where decisions or commitments could be made; and of course most meet and greets would be disappointing to anyone who holds them to such a misguided standard.
My fault then for using such a loaded word. I should know better. ;)
 

Drk

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I will not be able to make it seeing as it is at 3 am eurotime. I'll be happy to find out if there are any plans for an area merge between servers, for instance the t2a areas, cities and dungeons. Right now, it is awfully quiet on Europa and I'm guessing on a lot of other servers. I honestly feel that an area merge and the release of an hd 2d client are the only way to saving this game in the long run. If any of this has been discussed earlier, please let me know.
 

Uriah Heep

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Add to the list of questions;

Will we ever get a toggle to switch off that annoying "your deeds are worthy of praise" so that we dont have to resign our spawn chars from city. It kills communication, people asking for rezzes and stuff, and it gets lost in the constant spam of that before it is seen.
 

Slayvite

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Somebody ask them if we can get a Bulk Order Deed Book, to hold various deeds..........each deed counts to the 125 limit max carry so in house moves ect, you get full very fast with the amount of ingredients we hoard.....I mean stock these days. ;)
 

OREOGL

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I don't feel the meet and greets are structured properly.

In my mind they should be structured around directions they have taken or will take as well as any follow up with past questions.

Any questions fielded should stem from that structure.

We all have wants, wishes, and complaints. It just seems unproductive to pretend to cater to them.
 

Cymidei

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Lets turn all the Dragons & Greater Dragons, into teeny tiny rainbow kittens! Yes!
 

Lady Storm

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Bones??
oh that's easy.
Take your fencer ...give it a bug..... go swat the dark wisps in ish .... open tiny dot body... feed body parts to bug and cut bones... little gold for a drink at local pub after work. fin
 

Spock's Beard

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We all have wants, wishes, and complaints. It just seems unproductive to pretend to cater to them.
At least they're trying. Plus they don't pretend to cater to people so much as they just say "yeah we'll look into that" in response to everything. Which, to be fair, is about all you can say to a lot of the random-ass stuff people bring up there.
 

OREOGL

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At least they're trying. Plus they don't pretend to cater to people so much as they just say "yeah we'll look into that" in response to everything. Which, to be fair, is about all you can say to a lot of the random-ass stuff people bring up there.
I guess that plays into my point, we know the predictive response so why bother?

I'd rather know what they're doing and focus on that since we know 9 of the 10 questions are probably not going anywhere.
 

Kyronix

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I guess that plays into my point, we know the predictive response so why bother?

I'd rather know what they're doing and focus on that since we know 9 of the 10 questions are probably not going anywhere.
The "we'll look into it" response isn't an empty offer to just move on to the next person. It involves much more than that. Whenever someone makes a suggestion, or asks for a change that has the potential to be game changing we evaluate the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats (otherwise known as SWOT analysis). If we decide its something we can do, it gets added to our backlog for a future publish feature, along with other player suggestions and wishlists. Feedback is always crucial and we welcome it!
 

OREOGL

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The "we'll look into it" response isn't an empty offer to just move on to the next person. It involves much more than that. Whenever someone makes a suggestion, or asks for a change that has the potential to be game changing we evaluate the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats (otherwise known as SWOT analysis). If we decide its something we can do, it gets added to our backlog for a future publish feature, along with other player suggestions and wishlists. Feedback is always crucial and we welcome it!
Id be curious to know the number of implements you all have made based on the total number of suggestions you have received from these out of the past year.
 

Capt. Lucky

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Id be curious to know the number of implements you all have made based on the total number of suggestions you have received from these out of the past year.
I'm pretty sure they could argue *everything* they've done was from player input :p
 

OREOGL

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I'm pretty sure they could argue *everything* they've done was from player input :p
Just curious to see the results of the meet and greets specifically.

I don't follow all of these and visually seeing the number of benefits from them would make it seem like less of a sham
 

Kyronix

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Id be curious to know the number of implements you all have made based on the total number of suggestions you have received from these out of the past year.
I don't know hard numbers off the top of my head. I can tell you a number of our bug fixes in 92 have been the result of player feedback (it just doesn't come from Meet & Greets...we also get it from PMs, e-mails, and through lurking the forums). A lot of what went into the Time of Legends was the result of feedback we received. It's not always discrete in that a feature is implemented exactly as it was described but gets folded into a broader approach to content. I'm sorry you feel like its a sham, but it certainly is helpful to all involved.
 

FrejaSP

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I had seen them listen many times, but I had also seen a lot ideas, I'm happy we never saw in game and I'm sure some will say that about a lot of my ideas too :p
 

OREOGL

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I don't know hard numbers off the top of my head. I can tell you a number of our bug fixes in 92 have been the result of player feedback (it just doesn't come from Meet & Greets...we also get it from PMs, e-mails, and through lurking the forums). A lot of what went into the Time of Legends was the result of feedback we received. It's not always discrete in that a feature is implemented exactly as it was described but gets folded into a broader approach to content. I'm sorry you feel like its a sham, but it certainly is helpful to all involved.
This is specifically for meet and greets, I know you all have made adjustments on feedback because I have seen you specifically make them based on mine.
 

Uvtha

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I don't know hard numbers off the top of my head. I can tell you a number of our bug fixes in 92 have been the result of player feedback (it just doesn't come from Meet & Greets...we also get it from PMs, e-mails, and through lurking the forums). A lot of what went into the Time of Legends was the result of feedback we received. It's not always discrete in that a feature is implemented exactly as it was described but gets folded into a broader approach to content. I'm sorry you feel like its a sham, but it certainly is helpful to all involved.
So is the rainbow kittens thing in an actual (or at least computer) folder someplace???

P.s. I still want "Weasel Stomper" boots! :p
 
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