Underpowered 5 slot trainable pets

[Pawain]

@Kyronix @Bleak

Using the training abilities and end stats of a Cu Sidhe or Hiryu and possibly more.

The following pets are not able to be trained to be as well as the aforementioned pets.

These pets do not have any inherent special abilities or magics that compensate for their lack of fighting abilities. They are 2 rungs down. Some has to do with your mana usage changes. But they are still weak.

Basically I am saying, the following pets do not have enough points available to make them a viable pet. Their stats can be close, but they don't have room for power scrolls.

Here we go.

3 or 4 slot Skree. This is the size pet we wanted to be a replacement for a GD.

Dread Spider

Tsuki Wolf

4 slot Phoenix aka. the bird that ruined PvP

3 slot horses

4 slot Rune Beetle Adding 3 slot Rune Beetle. Needs 500 more points.

Bake Kitsune Horrible

Ki-rin Horrible

Shadow Wyrm Horrible

Dragon Wolf Its overcaps make mana difficult.

Frost Mite

Ram

If you have to buff the natural abilities of the untamed versions, we are fine with it. But please give us more options. It only takes a tweek.

Thanks

Feel free to add other to the list.

 

[cobb]

or you could argue that Cu Sidhe and Hiryu are overpowered and the other pets are exactly how they should be

 

[Pawain]

or you could argue that Cu Sidhe and Hiryu are overpowered and the other pets are exactly how they should be

Do you have a tamer? Show us what you have tested. Or are you posting about your fantasies again?

 

[cobb]

Do you have a tamer? Show us what you have tested. Or are you posting about your fantasies again?

of course i have a tamer. I have multiple accounts and multiple characters just like everyone else here

 

[Pawain]

Ok show us 1 trained pet you have.... I have not seen one of your posts in the Tamer forum.

 

[cobb]

Ok show us 1 trained pet you have.... I have not seen one of your posts in the Tamer forum.

Here is my pvm tamer with a trained Cu.

 

[cobb]

Ok show us 1 trained pet you have.... I have not seen one of your posts in the Tamer forum.

just because I don't post in the tamer forum doesn't mean I don't have a tamer

 

[Fridgster]

or you could argue that Cu Sidhe and Hiryu are overpowered and the other pets are exactly how they should be

I don't use either. My second favorite isn't either. I'd bet nickels to dimes my critters are just as effective if not more so than those two pets. Contrary to popular belief not all tamers are just "all kill" players. Often times our style of play dictates the type of tamables we use. That's what makes this publish so great. It has allowed many to expand their templates and have us thinking outside the box.

 

[Pawain]

I don't use either. My second favorite isn't either. I'd bet nickels to dimes my critters are just as effective if not more so than those two pets. Contrary to popular belief not all tamers are just "all kill" players. Often times our style of play dictates the type of tamables we use. That's what makes this publish so great. It has allowed many to expand their templates and have us thinking outside the box.

I just used those as a base. Those are 2 pets that a casual tamer can train and make a decent pet.

There are other things that have a niche. Are any on my list your favs? Id like to see the lores if so.

Theres actually too many things with 100% physical damage.

 

[Fridgster]

I just used those as a base. Those are 2 pets that a casual tamer can train and make a decent pet.

There are other things that have a niche. Are any on my list your favs? Id like to see the lores if so.

Theres actually too many things with 100% physical damage.

I'm finding using a warrior/tamer setup with a lesser hiryu trained to level 2 and a rune beetle at level 3 can be a very effective combo. Combine their resist lowering abilities with onslaught and physical resist becomes the lowest resist also if you play a sampire using 5 lessers and using onslaught/double strike is effective as well.

 

[Pawain]

I'm finding using a warrior/tamer setup with a lesser hiryu trained to level 2 and a rune beetle at level 3 can be a very effective combo. Combine their resist lowering abilities with onslaught and physical resist becomes the lowest resist also if you play a sampire using 5 lessers and using onslaught/double strike is effective as well.

You get the natural specials of the rune beetle and you could add specials to the Lesser. Sounds like a good combo.

 

[Akiho]

I have to say, my biggest disappointment of all is the Shadow Wyrm. Wanted to have one of these since they appeared, now that we can have them, they are just a waste of space in the stable. I completely understand that they have overcapped stats etc but their resists and HP are just piss poor making them completely unviable and you can't do a thing about it. And quite frankly that 1000+ Str does not bring much to the party when they die quicker than a mongbat. Very disappointed to say the least.

 

[WhiteWitch]

Completely agree about shadow wyrms, I always wished those could be tamed and now they can they are next to useless compared to similar slot pets.

Out of interest OP, whats bad about Ki Rins?
Its the male char version of a Unicorn right and Im finding my unicorn very useful, not least because its immune to all poisons, does the ki rin not have this?

 

[Turbo]

Shadow wyrm is a lot more useful when something else is tanking, but i agree for 5 slots without the ability to increase resists/hp or scroll skills the high melee damage isnt worth the trade off.

 

[Fridgster]

You get the natural specials of the rune beetle and you could add specials to the Lesser. Sounds like a good combo.

Actually don't add specials to lesser. Just bump resists and stats to max. It becomes my tank. Plus it may be me but it seems to spam grasping claw a lot more when I add max mana.

 

[GarthGrey]

or you could argue that Cu Sidhe and Hiryu are overpowered and the other pets are exactly how they should be

So you're a PvPr "and" a Tamer ? Interesting...

 

[Slayvite]

I'm assuming the Lesser Hiryu being a 1 to 5 slot pet is a bug?
The 1 slot stats are better than a lot of 3 slot start pets......

 

[drcossack]

So you're a PvPr "and" a Tamer ? Interesting...

yeah, because you can't have characters dedicated to different things. It should be fairly obvious that character is in a Luck suit, so it's not meant for pvp.

 

[Pawain]

Completely agree about shadow wyrms, I always wished those could be tamed and now they can they are next to useless compared to similar slot pets.

Out of interest OP, whats bad about Ki Rins?
Its the male char version of a Unicorn right and Im finding my unicorn very useful, not least because its immune to all poisons, does the ki rin not have this?

That was one added by others. They may have gotten a 3 slot. I just tamed a 2 slot and will train it next week. I have heard that Unicorns are good. But, Ive only seen one on LS and no Ki Rins.

They may have an advantage over nightmares because they don't have dragon breath using all the mana.

But the one I found has some really low Stats. I don't think there will be room for scrolls when I get 700 str and 800 HP.

Had to put mine on Magencia vendor since stable is full. Hope no one buys it in meantime.

 

[Fridgster]

I'm assuming the Lesser Hiryu being a 1 to 5 slot pet is a bug?
The 1 slot stats are better than a lot of 3 slot start pets......

That would be great since I have about 20 of them trained to 5 from 1 《

 

[Pawain]

Actually don't add specials to lesser. Just bump resists and stats to max. It becomes my tank. Plus it may be me but it seems to spam grasping claw a lot more when I add max mana.

Maybe try a Giant Beetle with the lesser. Youd get the beetle specials and poison if you want. But 100% physical damage. Grasping claw FTW.

 

[Fridgster]

Maybe try a Giant Beetle with the lesser. Youd get the beetle specials and poison if you want. But 100% physical damage. Grasping claw FTW.

Good idea

 

[cobb]

So you're a PvPr "and" a Tamer ? Interesting...

well yes. I have 14 characters.

 

[Pawain]

well yes. I have 14 characters.

So you pretty much want to nerf all your characters. Just wear a crappy suit and pretend you are nerfed and leave the rest of us out of it.

 

[Fridgster]

well yes. I have 14 characters.

Honestly if you put as much effort Into adapting as you do into complaining you'd be mopping the floor with the bird.

 

[cobb]

Honestly if you put as much effort Into adapting as you do into complaining you'd be mopping the floor with the bird.

This is a forum for discussing UO, so that is what I do.

 

[Pawain]

This is a forum for discussing UO, so that is what I do.

Actually most of the things you complain about are your fantasies that are not actually in UO. Now that you proved you can post a pic. How bout the one I asked you for a long time ago. You getting killed by any pet in PvP.

 

[railshot]

or you could argue that Cu Sidhe and Hiryu are overpowered and the other pets are exactly how they should be

Whenever "overpowered" accusation is thrown around it is helpful to use a frame of reference. Cu is overpowered compared to what? Old pre publish GD? Perhaps. A sampire? Not even close.
What is the point of providing so much variety to taming only to drag it back to mediocrity with nerfs? Taming needed a boost. It got it in a few pets. Other pets not so much.

 

[BeaIank]

Dread spiders were a major disappointment for me.
They should be 2 slot pets so you would get 3 training rounds off them.

 

[Tyrath]

Dread spiders were a major disappointment for me.
They should be 2 slot pets so you would get 3 training rounds off them.

I have found a use for dread spiders! As necromage they are great for raising resisting spells on other pets on Siege Not much else but there is that!!!

 

[MalagAste]

Dread spiders were a major disappointment for me.
They should be 2 slot pets so you would get 3 training rounds off them.

I was so sad when they nerfed the dread spider... He was awesome till they ruined mana... now he is so slow. Soo sad.

 

[transcendent]

I would like to see more 5 slot mountable pets with zero inherent abilities, so I can fully customize it. Something other than beetles. Not a fan of how they look

 

[Turbo]

Ki rin basically has no skills as it only starts with magic which can be replaced. Only problem is once you get some abilities and mana regen on, max str and scroll a few things they end up with low hp.

I would like more usable mountable 5 slot pets too or at least buff the ones we have like reptalon and ki rin to match cus so they are worth using.

A more viable option right now is to ride in with an ethy and dismount to use pet summon ball for a non mountable 5 slot.

Or what about making ethy mounts take 0 control slots for tamers or all players. Everyone else gets to do mounted combat with their best templates, why not tamers with their best 5 slot pets.

 

[Slayvite]

I would have loved a Ki-rin.....but I have no male chars that would be able to use it.
I think they need to take that "male only" restriction off it.......it's Sexist

Ohh, or new shop item idea...Riding Boots.
They allow your to negate the "cross" restrictions so males can ride unicorns, females can ride ki-rins, everyone can ride cu's ect...

 

[Pawain]

Completely agree about shadow wyrms, I always wished those could be tamed and now they can they are next to useless compared to similar slot pets.

Out of interest OP, whats bad about Ki Rins?
Its the male char version of a Unicorn right and Im finding my unicorn very useful, not least because its immune to all poisons, does the ki rin not have this?

I just got the Ki-Rin bonded and up a level. Did some math. Its going to be about 1000 points short of a Cu when it gets to 5 slots. I'm using a starting Cu at 595 HP and 605 Str. Now if you start with a bad stat Cu at 550 HP 600Str. you'd only be 850 points short.

You will not have room for scrolls and regens and you will have to sacrifice HP or Str.

The Ki rin is not immune to poison but it cures pretty quick. It is a big mana hog and starts with less mana and Int. 200 less combined. So that puts it another 100 points behind a cu.

So, we are at 950 to 1100 points. behind a Cu. The magery skill is not going to make up for that.

I am adding in these points after the Ki-rin is at 3 slots. Because the Cu starts at 3. I already used the 1501 extra points the Ki-rin get.

The Ki-rin has more magical, special abilities, special moves, and area effect combinations than I have seen in any pet.


Its really sad that we will not be able to explore this pet more because its just not good enough.

 

[BrianFreud]

I've been having a lot of fun with the Tsuki Wolf. I must say though that it does end up a compromise, though personally I like the resulting pets better than the others I've tried (lion, sabre-tooth, the new drakes, bake kitsune, ki-rin, horses, and a few other older pets).

I've played with several builds of wolves. Necromage is an option for the wolf, but there's just no room to actually do it and get a (imho) useable pet. I'd love to see one extra slot for special moves, as well as more room for HP/Str/Mana; at the moment, you end up with either a mana-starved wolf with decent HP, or a lowish HP pet (400-500) with decent mana.

A 2-slot tsuki wolf would have some serious potential... but I've never seen one, and doubt they spawn in anything other than 3 slots to start. Even the worst wolves I've seen have still been 3 slots. (A 1-slot wolf would simply be overpowered when it finally hit 5 slots, as nice as that'd be. )

@Kyronix, I've also run into problems where the current wolf I just built on a prodo shard, I scrolled up, used a bonding potion, gave resists and regens, and gave life leech and necromancy in the first go-round, just as I did for multiple wolves on test. Second round, however, I was allowed to give armor ignore, but unlike on test, at that point, the system decided I'd somehow already used up all my abilities and moves, so I wasn't allowed to add goo. That's quite a costly investment in time and scrolls, only to then find that I couldn't build essentially the exact pet I built 3 times on test last week...

Also, another problem/annoyance is the resists are capped, but we can't tweak them other than to raise them. I have the following 4 wolves in the stables on test at the moment:

test1: 82/84/60/83/71 = 380 total
test2: 80/80/65/80/60 = 365 total
test3: 80/80/65/80/60 = 365 total
test4: 80/80/62/80/60 = 362 total

That's where the system stopped allowing me to raise on each of those. Test1 is obviously wonky, and test4 got shorted some resists I should have been allowed to add.

Now look at what I ended up with on a prodo shard:

80/71/70/80/64 = 365

Ok, the total is where is should be... but this particular wolf spawned with wonky resists. Before deaths and my raising them via pet training, he was at 87/71/61/85/64, with 442 str, 197 stamina, and 40 mana. (That was actually the highest stamina I've ever seen on a tsuki wolf.) The latest publish tweak made that high pre-tame stamina worthless, dropping him down to the 150 limit, but 442 str is close to the highest str I've seen (450), so I figured it was worth the time and investment to give him a try. But 87/71/61/85/64 turned into 80/71/61/80/64... a whole 9 resist points that I could actually play with, choosing between either weak poison resist, or less than optimal fire resist.

If resists are going to be capped anyhow, why can't we do the equivalent of imbuing, where we can lower one property in order to gain space to raise elsewhere? Why can't I lower this wolf's energy resist and gain a few points I could spent on a different resist?

 

[Pawain]

I've been having a lot of fun with the Tsuki Wolf. I must say though that it does end up a compromise, though personally I like the resulting pets better than the others I've tried (lion, sabre-tooth, the new drakes, and a few older pets).

I've played with several builds of wolves. Necromage is an option for the wolf, but there's just no room to actually do it and get a (imho) useable pet. I'd love to see one extra slot for special moves, as well as more room for HP/Str/Mana; at the moment, you end up with either a mana-starved wolf with decent HP, or a lowish HP pet (400-500) with decent mana.

A 2-slot tsuki wolf would have some serious potential... but I've never seen one, and doubt they spawn in anything other than 3 slots to start. Even the worst wolves I've seen have still been 3 slots. (A 1-slot wolf would simply be overpowered when it finally hit 5 slots, as nice as that'd be. )

@Kyronix, I've also run into problems where the current wolf I just built on a prodo shard, I scrolled up, used a bonding potion, gave resists and regens, and gave life leech and necromancy in the first go-round, just as I did for multiple wolves on test. Second round, however, I was allowed to give armor ignore, but unlike on test, at that point, the system decided I'd somehow already used up all my abilities and moves, so I wasn't allowed to add goo. That's quite a costly investment in time and scrolls, only to then find that I couldn't build essentially the exact pet I built 3 times on test last week...

Also, another problem/annoyance is the resists are capped, but we can't tweak them other than to raise them. I have the following 4 wolves in the stables on test at the moment:

test1: 82/84/60/83/71 = 380 total
test2: 80/80/65/80/60 = 365 total
test3: 80/80/65/80/60 = 365 total
test4: 80/80/62/80/60 = 362 total

That's where the system stopped allowing me to raise on each of those. Test1 is obviously wonky, and test4 got shorted some resists I should have been allowed to add.

Now look at what I ended up with on a prodo shard:

80/71/70/80/64 = 365

Ok, the total is where is should be... but this particular wolf spawned with wonky resists. Before deaths and my raising them via pet training, he was at 87/71/61/85/64, with 442 str, 197 stamina, and 40 mana. (That was actually the highest stamina I've ever seen on a tsuki wolf.) The latest publish tweak made that high pre-tame stamina worthless, dropping him down to the 150 limit, but 442 str is close to the highest str I've seen (450), so I figured it was worth the time and investment to give him a try. But 87/71/61/85/64 turned into 80/71/61/80/64... a whole 9 resist points that I could actually play with, choosing between either weak poison resist, or less than optimal fire resist.

If resists are going to be capped anyhow, why can't we do the equivalent of imbuing, where we can lower one property in order to gain space to raise elsewhere? Why can't I lower this wolf's energy resist and gain a few points I could spent on a different resist?

There's a bug with the Tsuki wolf resist screen.



I had this one appear. It is overcapped. I copied the pet to TC1 and it looked like this over there. Others also saw it like this.

When it died it went to normal.



Would be a great pet if it had more points.