To anybody that is planning to attend UO TOWN HALL.

[Lolindir]

I live in Norway myself and have no chanse of making it to the US and the UO Town Hall meeting this fall.

I'd like to encourage all the attendants to bring up the topics of Item duplication, Exploits and Account terminations.

Item duplication
I would belive that the fewest of Ultima Online players even know how to duplicate items. Even so we have experienced a mass-termination of accounts, seemingly with many innocent players cought up in the mess.
What has to be done is that EA/Mythic puts in further resourses to solve bugs that makes it possible to duplicate items, or a way to identify the items. If the items had been properly marked I'd bet at least half the accused exploiters had managed to stear away from the whole problem. As long as duplicated items looks just the same as the original there is no way for a player to tell what he's dealing with. And as long as it's possible to duplicate almost every item in the game (as I understand it) there's even less chanse of knowing for sure.
As long as anyone are allowed to set up their own vendors all across the realm, EA will have to make it safe for everybody to use.

Exploits
UO has been up and running for ten years, but have had problems with exploits for the same duration. If EA wish to keep the statistics how they are today, then they will have to change their RoC and ToS instead. It is simply not good enough to first put everyone in danger of "taking part in exploiting the game", then tell everyone to buggar of when they come asking for help or perhaps only information on why their account has been terminated. The way this has been handled so far is extremely arrogant. Ms. Dalberg helps to settle my opinion.

The willingness of people to take secondhand protestations of innocence at face value appalls me

Account terminations
You recieve the following e-mail when you'r account gets terminated for Rules of Conduct §19 :

Service Terminated For Ultima Online Account: X

Your Ultima Online account has been permanently terminated from the Ultima Online service due to the following violation of the Rules of Conduct.

Violation: Exploitation of game properties/distributing exploitation of the Ultima Online service

Rules of Conduct: 19) You will not exploit any bug in the Ultima Online product or the Ultima Online Service. You will not intentionally use or share any bug found within Ultima Online, whether or not it grants an unfair advantage, is real or fictitious. You will not communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or indirectly) to any other user of the Ultima Online Service. You will report any such exploit using the bug reporting methods as described by the Ultima Online Service at http://www.uo.com/mailBug.html.

The Rules of Conduct clearly defines that this behavior and activity is not permitted on the Ultima Online service, and require that you immediately cease all illegal game activity. Should the situation continue, your account will be immediately and permanently closed.

Please understand that Electronic Arts must take the absolute position of prohibiting the use of any and all possible exploits – this is the only way to provide consistency as a service. Some may have more of an impact on the game than others, but any form of exploitation is still exploitation – taking advantage of a game flaw or deficiency is strictly prohibited. Please understand that any additional violations could and likely will lead to the immediate termination of this Ultima Online account.

If you feel that this termination is unwarranted, or if you wish to dispute the claims of this email, we ask that you please visit the Account Administration site at http://eamembers.custhelp.com so that they can review any possible discrepancies of this event.

The Account Admin team is also available at that site should you have any general questions or concerns about the rule or its enforcement in the game, as we feel it is important to understand the rule completely before returning to the game world.

The e-mail states that the accused has used exploits or distributed information about exploits. In many of the recent cases the account has not been terminated for useing- or distributeing exploits, but for being in possession of items that others have made by useing exploits. This alone should be enough for most of the players to have their charges dropped.
Also the e-mail states that the account will get terminated if the situation continues. Now this brings up a dilemma because;

• Everybody got insta-terminated. Probably even before the e-mail was distributed. This leaves no chanse to dispute the claims.
• Many of the accused doesnt know exactly what they have done, wich makes it hard to dispute the claim.
• No one gets to discuss their cases with any EA employees.
• Everybody is told to stop talking- and expressing their opinions about it.

This leaves EA in a very good possition (from their own point of view) as nobody has the chanse to make a liable dispute, and simply has to accept the fact that they won't be heared or informed. Multiple hundreds of dollars spent, no way of getting the account back whether you'r in fact innocent, or not.

This is all very frustrating for the ones involved, and not by any meens helpfull in solving the matter at hand; In-game bugs. Nor does it help the community growing haveing some players banned and leaving the rest in fear of being banned the next time. Also it ruines the whole multiplayer aspect of the game if the players can't buy and sell items between them. One player may focus on training skills, another on crafting, PVE or PVP. Either way you would probably have to buy an item sooner or later.


Thank you for reading. Please consider bringing it up.

Lolindir Calmil, Europa
Banjih, Siege Perilous

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I'll go ahead and answer this one for ya:

"We can't talk about the methods we use to track and ban exploiters, but know that 'we like fire'."

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

...

I'll go ahead and answer this one for ya:

"We can't talk about the methods we use to track and ban exploiters, but know that 'we like fire'."

*spits out coffee*

 

[RoycroftLS]

Using bold for emphasis tends to lose its effect if you use it every third word.

Most of your points have been discussed (or beaten like a dead horse) in the other threads here. But to respond to a couple of the more salient points:

"Mass termination"? Did you get banned? Did the majority of your friends? Of course the people who got banned are going to complain, they don't have the game to take up their time any more. Everyone else is still playing the game, instead of trying to win the sympathy of forum goers.

"If the items had been properly marked..." If the devs had a system that could accurately determine which items were duped, why would they put a warning on the duped items? Wouldn't they remove them immediately?

Jeremy might have come off as arrogant to you, but how would you respond? Assuming she is telling the truth, she has definite proof that at least some of the people here claiming to be innocent are guilty. It must be frustrating to be bound by the privacy policy and unable to put those people spreading lies in their proper place.

"Many of the accused doesnt know exactly what they have done, wich makes it hard to dispute the claim." I still don't see the point of releasing that information to people who have been found guilty and have had the decision upheld upon appeal. There's already enough panic and hysteria without giving a group of (almost all) scoundrels more information to lie about. Especially when the devs aren't allowed to respond publicly about it.

"Everybody is told to stop talking- and expressing their opinions about it." People were told to stop creating so many different threads about the subject, and a few accused people were frowned upon for stating the same things over and over. But I don't recall any moderators stating that there were to be no further discussions on the topic.

"Multiple hundreds of dollars spent, no way to get it back..." I don't understand this argument either. It's like going to the movies for years, and then one night you get kicked out and you feel entitled to refunds for all the movies you have ever seen there. You pay EA to experience the game, and getting banned now doesn't change the fact that you accessed their servers and used their bandwidth each month in the past.

 

[Beldon]

Lolindir, what would the point be. What would the purpose be. If you think they are randomly banning people and lying about it, what makes you think they will start telling the truth at some townhall meeting?
EA/Mythic employee "I thought it would be really cool to Perma PK peoples accounts. At the times it sounded like it would be a lot of fun. I now see I was wrong. I am sorry."
I mean really. If they are randomly banning people... I mean really... If you believe that... Do YOU really believe that? I would like to know.

 

[Kiminality]

Sig says it all...

Dial down the drama a notch...
Seriously...

If you're going to be this hyperbolic with your arguments, then no one's ever going to take you seriously...

 

[Lolindir]

Using bold for emphasis tends to lose its effect if you use it every third word.

At least I managed to get you heated up enough to keep the train rolling.

Most of your points have been discussed (or beaten like a dead horse) in the other threads here. But to respond to a couple of the more salient points:

"Mass termination"? Did you get banned? Did the majority of your friends? Of course the people who got banned are going to complain, they don't have the game to take up their time any more. Everyone else is still playing the game, instead of trying to win the sympathy of forum goers.

Yes, my account got banned. I'm not trying to get sympathy with my post. As you can see there is no reference to any players specificly. I just wanted to make an objective post for UO Town Hall attendants to read. After all, not everybody reads every thread.

"If the items had been properly marked..." If the devs had a system that could accurately determine which items were duped, why would they put a warning on the duped items? Wouldn't they remove them immediately?

Yes, and -that- would be a valid way of solving the issue. Somebody ought to start working.

Jeremy might have come off as arrogant to you, but how would you respond? Assuming she is telling the truth, she has definite proof that at least some of the people here claiming to be innocent are guilty. It must be frustrating to be bound by the privacy policy and unable to put those people spreading lies in their proper place.

That was my own opinion. I'm entitled to have them. After all I'm not a community spokesperson.
How EA wish to speak with their customers is their own choise. Telling people "you are an idiot for being able to feel compassion" isn't the way to go IMHO.

"Many of the accused doesnt know exactly what they have done, wich makes it hard to dispute the claim." I still don't see the point of releasing that information to people who have been found guilty and have had the decision upheld upon appeal. There's already enough panic and hysteria without giving a group of (almost all) scoundrels more information to lie about. Especially when the devs aren't allowed to respond publicly about it.

I see your point in not sharing information in case of further abuse. But you and EA both fail to see that not every accused is guilty. What I'm trying to say here is that EA needs new rutines. Today's methods arent solid enough.

"Everybody is told to stop talking- and expressing their opinions about it." People were told to stop creating so many different threads about the subject, and a few accused people were frowned upon for stating the same things over and over. But I don't recall any moderators stating that there were to be no further discussions on the topic.

People are pissed of because EA wont listen to anything. What can you do? Shouting at the moon sure as hell wont give any results. I'll keep yapping untill someone starts to listen.
Everybody that is tired of these threads may aswell read something else instead.

"Multiple hundreds of dollars spent, no way to get it back..." I don't understand this argument either. It's like going to the movies for years, and then one night you get kicked out and you feel entitled to refunds for all the movies you have ever seen there. You pay EA to experience the game, and getting banned now doesn't change the fact that you accessed their servers and used their bandwidth each month in the past.

I see I have a typo in that sentance. Should have read "Multiple hundreds of dollars spent, no way of getting the account back".
I merely meen that EA cant keep treating paying customers like this. Changes must be done in rutines/RoC/ToS.

 

[Lolindir]

Lolindir, what would the point be. What would the purpose be. If you think they are randomly banning people and lying about it, what makes you think they will start telling the truth at some townhall meeting?
EA/Mythic employee "I thought it would be really cool to Perma PK peoples accounts. At the times it sounded like it would be a lot of fun. I now see I was wrong. I am sorry."
I mean really. If they are randomly banning people... I mean really... If you believe that... Do YOU really believe that? I would like to know.

No. It's not done randomly, my post doesnt imply this. What I do know is that not all of the terminations are just, and I know this because my own account got banned.

I dont say it's impossible that I had duped items on my account. Being a 7 year vet I would be amezed if I didnt, seeing how large problem it apparently is. But I know I havent duped them myself. Now, if I actually both have enough duped items on my account to get banned, then it's way to easy "obtaining" them, and way to easy to get banned. Thats was ment to be the essence of my post along with the fact there has been very little information posted about the problem in forehand.

 

[goldstandard]

I live in Norway myself and have no chanse of making it to the US and the UO Town Hall meeting this fall.

I'd like to encourage all the attendants to bring up the topics of Item duplication, Exploits and Account terminations.

Item duplication
I would belive that the fewest of Ultima Online players even know how to duplicate items. Even so we have experienced a mass-termination of accounts, seemingly with many innocent players cought up in the mess.
What has to be done is that EA/Mythic puts in further resourses to solve bugs that makes it possible to duplicate items, or a way to identify the items. If the items had been properly marked I'd bet at least half the accused exploiters had managed to stear away from the whole problem. As long as duplicated items looks just the same as the original there is no way for a player to tell what he's dealing with. And as long as it's possible to duplicate almost every item in the game (as I understand it) there's even less chanse of knowing for sure.
As long as anyone are allowed to set up their own vendors all across the realm, EA will have to make it safe for everybody to use.

Exploits
UO has been up and running for ten years, but have had problems with exploits for the same duration. If EA wish to keep the statistics how they are today, then they will have to change their RoC and ToS instead. It is simply not good enough to first put everyone in danger of "taking part in exploiting the game", then tell everyone to buggar of when they come asking for help or perhaps only information on why their account has been terminated. The way this has been handled so far is extremely arrogant. Ms. Dalberg helps to settle my opinion.


Account terminations
You recieve the following e-mail when you'r account gets terminated for Rules of Conduct §19 :


The e-mail states that the accused has used exploits or distributed information about exploits. In many of the recent cases the account has not been terminated for useing- or distributeing exploits, but for being in possession of items that others have made by useing exploits. This alone should be enough for most of the players to have their charges dropped.
Also the e-mail states that the account will get terminated if the situation continues. Now this brings up a dilemma because;

• Everybody got insta-terminated. Probably even before the e-mail was distributed. This leaves no chanse to dispute the claims.
• Many of the accused doesnt know exactly what they have done, wich makes it hard to dispute the claim.
• No one gets to discuss their cases with any EA employees.
• Everybody is told to stop talking- and expressing their opinions about it.

This leaves EA in a very good possition (from their own point of view) as nobody has the chanse to make a liable dispute, and simply has to accept the fact that they won't be heared or informed. Multiple hundreds of dollars spent, no way of getting the account back whether you'r in fact innocent, or not.

This is all very frustrating for the ones involved, and not by any meens helpfull in solving the matter at hand; In-game bugs. Nor does it help the community growing haveing some players banned and leaving the rest in fear of being banned the next time. Also it ruines the whole multiplayer aspect of the game if the players can't buy and sell items between them. One player may focus on training skills, another on crafting, PVE or PVP. Either way you would probably have to buy an item sooner or later.


Thank you for reading. Please consider bringing it up.

Lolindir Calmil, Europa
Banjih, Siege Perilous

No here ill answer it for you

We know of such exploits and are working day & night to fix them our dev team is hard at work blah blah blah blah blah


GREAT TO KNOW THE DEV TEAM IS HARD AT WORK
Just ashame they never know how to fix it

 

[Beldon]

No. It's not done randomly, my post doesnt imply this. What I do know is that not all of the terminations are just, and I know this because my own account got banned.

I dont say it's impossible that I had duped items on my account. Being a 7 year vet I would be amezed if I didnt, seeing how large problem it apparently is. But I know I havent duped them myself. Now, if I actually both have enough duped items on my account to get banned, then it's way to easy "obtaining" them, and way to easy to get banned. Thats was ment to be the essence of my post along with the fact there has been very little information posted about the problem in forehand.

Ok, you were banned. Let us try this on you then. Is it possible you picked up 30+ items at the same time, that could have been duped?

 

[Lolindir]

Ok, you were banned. Let us try this on you then. Is it possible you picked up 30+ items at the same time, that could have been duped?

I once bought 4-5 BRSK on Europa. All are burnd except for one. I still have that kit on my main account along with my artifacts. That account is still open. I've never had any runic hammers over copper i think, wich I bought.

The house placed on the banned account was placed on Siege wich I play rarely. I dont have finances to buy anything there except from regs and stuff.

Apart from that, most other items are crap that I've collected over the years.


I'm sure this is the case for many more players, wich is why i made the post.

 

[Crysta]

In response to the first post:

Not really possible to mark duped items, aside from ones after the fact that they decide not to delete for whatever reason.

So long as 100% perfect programming is impossible (IE: always, since nobody IS perfect), there will be cheaters and exploits.. all they can do is deal with them the best they can, which we've seen.

And finally, devs won't talk about it.

I hope nobody asks ANY of your questions, because they'll all be the kinds of pointless, wasted questions they can't answer that people always complain about after the fact yet still keep bringing up each and every Town Hall.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I got a question, off topic kinda...

But at the SD townhall, every other sentence uttered was 'We like fire!"
So many accounts evidently banned, but I never saw any fire? So does this mean more are coming? *shrugs*
don't matter to me either way, just kinda curious why nothing is burning except tempers.

 

[Lolindir]

I hope nobody asks ANY of your questions, because they'll all be the kinds of pointless, wasted questions they can't answer that people always complain about after the fact yet still keep bringing up each and every Town Hall.

If nobody brings the matter to discussion then there will probably never be any sollutions made. Taking the discussion to them in person will help as you wont have to wait a day or two for a response that probably doesnt contain any information anyway.

Good to know somebody always decides to nag EA about the matter.

 

[Crysta]

It's not a matter of "nobody bringing it to discussion". It's a matter of it being brought up so damn often it's already done to death, and already gotten the same answers.

 

[Sheridan]

I got a question, off topic kinda...

But at the SD townhall, every other sentence uttered was 'We like fire!"
So many accounts evidently banned, but I never saw any fire? So does this mean more are coming? *shrugs*
don't matter to me either way, just kinda curious why nothing is burning except tempers.

I believe people reported suspected player vendors being flamestriked over and over right before or as the bannings were taking place or something along those lines.

 

[Silly Seadog]

Arrrr, in the end, the only real answer be to nae give EA any more pieces o' eight!

 

[Beldon]

Ok, you were banned. Let us try this on you then. Is it possible you picked up 30+ items at the same time, that could have been duped?

I once bought 4-5 BRSK on Europa. All are burnd except for one. I still have that kit on my main account along with my artifacts. That account is still open. I've never had any runic hammers over copper i think, wich I bought.

The house placed on the banned account was placed on Siege wich I play rarely. I dont have finances to buy anything there except from regs and stuff.

Apart from that, most other items are crap that I've collected over the years.


I'm sure this is the case for many more players, wich is why i made the post.

Jeremy stated that around 30+ duped items is where they start thinking about banning you. All the examples they have given so far have been 150+ duped items. From your thread, you sound like all the others that claim innocence, that they didn't even come close to making the criteria necessary to ban you. Given that we are back to my first post in this thread:

Lolindir, what would the point be. What would the purpose be. If you think they are randomly banning people and lying about it, what makes you think they will start telling the truth at some townhall meeting?
EA/Mythic employee "I thought it would be really cool to Perma PK peoples accounts. At the times it sounded like it would be a lot of fun. I now see I was wrong. I am sorry."
I mean really. If they are randomly banning people... I mean really... If you believe that... Do YOU really believe that? I would like to know.

I keep expecting someone to hit a gray area, but no one has done it yet.

 

[Lolindir]

Lolindir, what would the point be. What would the purpose be. If you think they are randomly banning people and lying about it, what makes you think they will start telling the truth at some townhall meeting?
EA/Mythic employee "I thought it would be really cool to Perma PK peoples accounts. At the times it sounded like it would be a lot of fun. I now see I was wrong. I am sorry."
I mean really. If they are randomly banning people... I mean really... If you believe that... Do YOU really believe that? I would like to know.

Random? My answer is still no to these questions.. I rather belive EA made a mistake, and should set of time to look into it accordingly.

Jeremy stated that around 30+ duped items is where they start thinking about banning you. All the examples they have given so far have been 150+ duped items. From your thread, you sound like all the others that claim innocence, that they didn't even come close to making the criteria necessary to ban you. Given that we are back to my first post in this thread

Yes, it would be setteling to at least know the ammount. Still no response to my e-mails.

 

[Beldon]

Random? My answer is still no to these questions.. I rather belive EA made a mistake, and should set of time to look into it accordingly.


Yes, it would be setteling to at least know the ammount. Still no response to my e-mails.

I think they should tell you what you got band for too. I think they owe that to you. I don't think they will give you an exact figures. I think they can't really track items all that well and don't want dupers and fencers to know their exact capabilities. So don't be surprised if they do not go beyond you are guilty of this.