Time to revamp the pet calculator.

[Smoot]

its horribly basic and outdated. i see people being "scammed" all the time into beleiving a pet is good because of the current rating.

Especially with many returning players coming back for the expansion, i think its time for a new, better one that weighs stats according to what is actually needed to make a specific pet more effective.

Some examples:
4.5 greater dragon with 105 wrestle. it might as well be a 2.0
3.2 dread warhorse with only 560hp. might as well be a 0
4.0 Rune beetle with low dex and low poisoning, 0. trash pet.

its time for someone who really knows taming to make a new, modern, accurate calculator.

Discuss

 

[MeTheGreat]

I think that a problem with the current calculation is the high variability of pet usage.

my first thought was that each pet should have it's own weighting; but with my ignorance to coding, i am not sure
how much of a headache this would be.

First a solid breakdown on how different pets are used in pvp and pvm combat would be needed.
Special abilities and the statistics that those abilities depend on would have to noted for each.
(i.e. fire breath-hp, deadly poison-poisoning skill,dex)

It may be easier to have a pet rating for basic stats and hp,
with either separate ratings or modifiers for resists and skills.

 

[Smoot]

@MeTheGreat

It would be something to think about. thats what i really liked about the rating system an old wow site used for armor (back when wow armor was alot less generic) it had 2 seprate spreadsheets of ratings, one for pvp and one for pve. 1 piece of armor could be extremely high rated for pvp, but extremely low for pve.

i think an accurate pet rating could either included 2 verisons of the rating, however the some of the pets are so specific that i feel the most accurate would be a seperate pvp / pve rating according to what is valued in each pet.

im not one to take on such a task, but may be a fun and definitely worthwhile project for someone.

 

[Kayhynn]

I much prefer the ones done by UOCraft here: UOCraft.com

 

[MalagAste]

I much prefer the ones done by UOCraft here: UOCraft.com

Yes but sometimes..... those aren't the best.

 

[Longtooths]

@Smoot I look forward to using your new calculator...chop chop

 

[DJAd]

What pet calculator do you use?

 

[Victim of Siege]

i use the "it's good enough" calculator in my brain. V1.13

 

[MalagAste]

What pet calculator do you use?

The one built into Pinco's... and I adjust it for my needs. Sometimes it's ok if he gets a low rating for having something low... but if his magery/wrestling sucketh I don't want it.

 

[Thoronnar]

its horribly basic and outdated. i see people being "scammed" all the time into beleiving a pet is good because of the current rating.

Especially with many returning players coming back for the expansion, i think its time for a new, better one that weighs stats according to what is actually needed to make a specific pet more effective.

Some examples:
4.5 greater dragon with 105 wrestle. it might as well be a 2.0
3.2 dread warhorse with only 560hp. might as well be a 0
4.0 Rune beetle with low dex and low poisoning, 0. trash pet.

its time for someone who really knows taming to make a new, modern, accurate calculator.

Discuss

To the best of my knowledge wrestling is a trainable skill for greater dragons. So if it is showing 4.5 (at least Pinco) with a 105 wrestle that GD is not fully trained and has some killer stats and/or resists. If 105 wrestle is the cap (which I've never seen on a GD) then that pet calc you're using is a POS.

 

[Lord Frodo]

What we need is an explanation of what is the #1 thing to look for and why, then #2 and so on. Any pet calculator is what the person thinks is the most important.

 

[MeTheGreat]

Then to start, let's take the first pet in the op.

in my opinion..
Greater Dragon:
main use: pvm tank/meatshield

Wrestling: for hit chance
HP: for breath attack, survivability
Resists: survivability (Phys, Fire are the most important (obviously, it depends on the mob). Additionally, for pvp application, higher cold resist is important when facing consecrate weapon
Stats: Strength is most important for damage, dex is 125 unless pre-patch (swing speed based on dex/stam), Int is nice but less important. Mana always runs out during long fights

legendary skills:
tactics: like wrestling, has to do with tanking ability (in this case damage output)
resisting spells: for pvp application, above 120 allows dragon to walk through fields
magery: for pvp application, above 120 allows dragons to para players with 120 resist (if they don't use trapped boxes)

 

[Smoot]

tactics: like wrestling, has to do with tanking ability (in this case damage output)

tactics and anat actually dont matter on a greater dragon too much because or the damage cap from 2009.

 

[MeTheGreat]

i'm not familiar with the damage cap you are speaking of; but coupled with the damage formula,
i'm sure we can arrive at what the minimum strength and tactics values need to be for optimal damage..

 

[Hill Top]

its horribly basic and outdated. i see people being "scammed" all the time into beleiving a pet is good because of the current rating.

Especially with many returning players coming back for the expansion, i think its time for a new, better one that weighs stats according to what is actually needed to make a specific pet more effective.

Some examples:
4.5 greater dragon with 105 wrestle. it might as well be a 2.0
3.2 dread warhorse with only 560hp. might as well be a 0
4.0 Rune beetle with low dex and low poisoning, 0. trash pet.

its time for someone who really knows taming to make a new, modern, accurate calculator.

Discuss

Me the great your are absolutely correct and ive been saying/thinking the same thing. I have never gone by that calculator for the same reasons, people saying look at my 4.2 Greater and they show you the stats of the pet and I laugh when seeing the same as you mentioned above, with a crap skill on the pet and some thing the pet is really good when its not.. As far I as am concerned the pet calculator is trash always has been and is why I don't use it or for that matter even talking about is not an option for me. Gota scrap that calculator its horrible ! Good post !

 

[Merus]

Then to start, let's take the first pet in the op.

in my opinion..
Greater Dragon:

legendary skills
magery: for pvp application, above 120 allows dragons to para players with 120 resist (if they don't use trapped boxes)

I always thought chance to para was a check against eval/resist not Magery/resist.

 

[Silent Singer]

Tl dr on pets, for those who don't care enough to understand the calculator values:

GD = for pvm phys and fire resist need to be above 80 and hp above 900. Otherwise, you can do better. For pvp, resist spells and Magery should be above 120.

Bugs = dex needs to be as high as possible, preferably above high 150s. Poison should be above 120, and Eval Int should be above 110.

Dreads = max hp.

Are there other pets? J/k

 

[Lord Frodo]

I never really understood the rating because I have a GD that is a 3.9 and the way I test my PVM Tanks is to say all kill against SWOOP and see how long they last. I have a 3.9 and a 4.1 GD that both TANK SWOOP with no heals about %75+ of the time. Seeing how your pet works in the field is way more important than anything.
SWOOPS STATS http://uo.stratics.com/database/view.php?db_content=hunters&id=2490

 

[Max Blackoak]

Tl dr on pets, for those who don't care enough to understand the calculator values:

GD = for pvm phys and fire resist need to be above 80 and hp above 900. Otherwise, you can do better. For pvp, resist spells and Magery should be above 120.

Bugs = dex needs to be as high as possible, preferably above high 150s. Poison should be above 120, and Eval Int should be above 110.

Dreads = max hp.

Are there other pets? J/k

Are those numbers for the pets when you lore them before taming or after taming them?

 

[Silent Singer]

Max, the resists for pets does not change before and after taming. Those are set. For GD, when you tame it, whatever its Magery is immediately after taming is as high as it will get. The other skills will raise with training, but not Magery. Hope that helps a little.

 

[Thrakkar]

i think its time for a new, better one that weighs stats according to what is actually needed to make a specific pet more effective.
...
its time for someone who really knows taming to make a new, modern, accurate calculator.

The whole point of a calculator is to have a single number, which you can easily compare with others. The old calc does that job. The more calcs you throw in, the more useless that number will become, since different people will be using different calcs with different weightings. And noboby can guarantee, that once your calc is out, everyone will use it.

Also, if you really want a new calculator, you should start to define the weighting of all the stats. I'm pretty sure, if you ask 10 people to come up with weightings, you get ten different answers. And exactly there lies the second problem.

 

[Lord Frodo]

The whole point of a calculator is to have a single number, which you can easily compare with others. The old calc does that job. The more calcs you throw in, the more useless that number will become, since different people will be using different calcs with different weightings. And noboby can guarantee, that once your calc is out, everyone will use it.

Also, if you really want a new calculator, you should start to define the weighting of all the stats. I'm pretty sure, if you ask 10 people to come up with weightings, you get ten different answers. And exactly there lies the second problem.

So how about explaining the weighting that was used for the pet calculator.

 

[Merlin]

UO Craft still the best and only calculator I trust. The user simply has to take some responsibility in looking at more than the rating and also considering skills, stats, resists, so on and so forth.

 

[Lord Frodo]

UO Craft still the best and only calculator I trust. The user simply has to take some responsibility in looking at more than the rating and also considering skills, stats, resists, so on and so forth.

But skills, stats, resists are what make up the rating so how can you say look at them when they are already being looked at? What else is to be considered because you make it sound like there is more to look at other than what Animal Lore tells us. It would be helpful to know what weighting went into each item. Yes UOCraft is the best calc out there but it is not hard to be the best when there is no other one to compare with.

 

[Merus]

I would say 3 ratings:
Standard rating - as is.
PvP Rating - Gives higher weight to certain skills over 120, etc.
PvM Rating - Gives higher weight to resists, HP and wrestling skill.

 

[Merlin]

But skills, stats, resists are what make up the rating so how can you say look at them when they are already being looked at? What else is to be considered because you make it sound like there is more to look at other than what Animal Lore tells us. It would be helpful to know what weighting went into each item. Yes UOCraft is the best calc out there but it is not hard to be the best when there is no other one to compare with.

You just have to know the game well enough to know how different skills/stats in different ranges will affect the pet. No simple 5 point scale can give this to you quick and easy.

Additionally, I'm convinced every pet has its own "personality" and acts in different ways, no matter what their rating is. There is no way to quantify this.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Additionally, I'm convinced every pet has its own "personality" and acts in different ways, no matter what their rating is. There is no way to quantify this.

%100 true

 

[MalagAste]

You just have to know the game well enough to know how different skills/stats in different ranges will affect the pet. No simple 5 point scale can give this to you quick and easy.

Additionally, I'm convinced every pet has its own "personality" and acts in different ways, no matter what their rating is. There is no way to quantify this.

I agree. Every pet is different and I swear one of my dragons is "deaf". Either that or he's a juvenile and has "selective" hearing.

 

[Thrakkar]

So how about explaining the weighting that was used for the pet calculator.

"The" pet calculator? As far as I understand, there are multiple and all use some different weighting...

Neither did I write any of those nor do I use them (Not counting trying one out years ago), so I'm definitely the wrong person to ask here.

THB, regardless of how you weight something, it will always stay an abstract number, which doesn't really tell you anything and can only be "used" for marketing purposes or bragging.
Combat is way too situational. I would always pick the right pet for the right situation instead of the one with a high calculator number.

As long as HP, Wrestling, Phys.Res, Fire Res are roughly within 80% [ (ActualValue - MinValue) / (MaxValue - MinValue) > 0.8 ], it is a very good pet in my eyes. I don't need a calculator for that.

 

[Lord Frodo]

UO Craft still the best and only calculator I trust. The user simply has to take some responsibility in looking at more than the rating and also considering skills, stats, resists, so on and so forth.

I just a test on UOCraft with that GD people are offering 4-5 billion on and I changed its skills to 100 and it is still a 4.7 so skills are not even considered and IMHO that is a huge joke.