Time To Fix Trade Window Scam

[TheGrimReefer]

Since it seems to be happening daily if not hourly on Atlantic shard now, I think its time to fix the ability to edit gold amounts while in trade using EC. This is allowing people to purchase items for less then asking price. This isnt something new, it has been around for months and like usual, it is allowed to continue.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Since it seems to be happening daily if not hourly on Atlantic shard now, I think its time to fix the ability to edit gold amounts while in trade using EC. This is allowing people to purchase items for less then asking price. This isnt something new, it has been around for months and like usual, it is allowed to continue.

According to @Kyronix during the 20th party, this bug doesn't exist (and they "Tested the pancakes out of it.")

There was more said about it, but I can't repeat it due to Stratics rules.

 

[Victim of Siege]

 

[petemage]

According to @Kyronix during the 20th party, this bug doesn't exist (and they "Tested the pancakes out of it.")

There was more said about it, but I can't repeat it due to Stratics rules.

I can see where he is coming from. A couple of thoughts...

First, I doubt the notion of it being EC exclusive on either the scammer/victim side. For the victim side, I can't see why a CC user shouldn't be a victim to this as well. From the scammer point, if the EC can do it, it is only a matter of figuring out which network packets to send and they would be able to do it with whatever their tool of choice is. Would be very glad if someone corrects me and could tell why this might not be an CC issue.

Second, it's hard to call it a bug since it has always been possible that the other party changes terms and hits accept just a millisecond before you hit accept while you don't even notice. Only that people start automating it in the EC made this potential issue surface for worse now.

It's more like a gamble of the scammer, and the fact that a computer can place his bet (They betting on hitting the small time window between you last checking the terms and then going over to hitting accept) only worsens it, but a malicious human could have pulled the same trick of manually before, likely with less probability of success due to us humans being too slow.

You can't even do much about it, since at one point you have to hit that little checkbox on your side, and whenever the counterparty sneaks a last minute (read: miliseconds) change in without your notice, you gonna accept that. A pure gamble on their side.

With that thought, I think a proper countermeasure should be to add a grace period whenever one side changes the terms of the trade. In the grace period you can't hit accept on your side, so you are forced to think about it twice.

In EC this can be easily done by blocking your checkbox for like 3 seconds every time the terms of the trade change. The scammer can change his amount all he wants, but each time he resets the 3 second grace period on your side, so your client blocks the checkbox and puts down a little timer like "Attention, terms of trade changed, please reconsider this trade. Grace period ends in 3 seconds...". It would be fairly easy to put that together in a mod.

For CC it would still take the Devs, but maybe my assumption from my first point is wrong anyway?!

Anyway, while I see where they are coming from when they say "There is no bug", it is also way too easy to just blame this on the players. No player is a superhuman who can check the terms and hit the checkbox within the same millisecond. Yes, it takes even the youngest and fittest and most aware of us like half or quarter a second. That just needs to be accounted for IMO.

 

[Wing Zero Straight Edge]

I can see where he is coming from. A couple of thoughts...

First, I doubt the notion of it being EC exclusive on either the scammer/victim side. For the victim side, I can't see why a CC user shouldn't be a victim to this as well. From the scammer point, if the EC can do it, it is only a matter of figuring out which network packets to send and they would be able to do it with whatever their tool of choice is. Would be very glad if someone corrects me and could tell why this might not be an CC issue.

Second, it's hard to call it a bug since it has always been possible that the other party changes terms and hits accept just a millisecond before you hit accept while you don't even notice. Only that people start automating it in the EC made this potential issue surface for worse now.

It's more like a gamble of the scammer, and the fact that a computer can place his bet (They betting on hitting the small time window between you last checking the terms and then going over to hitting accept) only worsens it, but a malicious human could have pulled the same trick of manually before, likely with less probability of success due to us humans being too slow.

You can't even do much about it, since at one point you have to hit that little checkbox on your side, and whenever the counterparty sneaks a last minute (read: miliseconds) change in without your notice, you gonna accept that. A pure gamble on their side.

With that thought, I think a proper countermeasure should be to add a grace period whenever one side changes the terms of the trade. In the grace period you can't hit accept on your side, so you are forced to think about it twice.

In EC this can be easily done by blocking your checkbox for like 3 seconds every time the terms of the trade change. The scammer can change his amount all he wants, but each time he resets the 3 second grace period on your side, so your client blocks the checkbox and puts down a little timer like "Attention, terms of trade changed, please reconsider this trade. Grace period ends in 3 seconds...". It would be fairly easy to put that together in a mod.

For CC it would still take the Devs, but maybe my assumption from my first point is wrong anyway?!

Anyway, while I see where they are coming from when they say "There is no bug", it is also way too easy to just blame this on the players. No player is a superhuman who can check the terms and hit the checkbox within the same millisecond. Yes, it takes even the youngest and fittest and most aware of us like half or quarter a second. That just needs to be accounted for IMO.

Yep! A warning message should just prompt after both ticks are clicked so you can read over your deal. "Are you sure you want to make this purchase?" Would be simple enough. You click no and the deal cancels.

 

[GarthGrey]

It's not even a bug, the dude on the gold end of the deal simply backspaces a 0 and if he does it at the right time and you lock in AFTER he does it he gets a big discount.

Let the gold guy lock in first.

Also sad, people approach someone selling a token item and say they have a great deal. They claim to need the item being sold so badly they'll give you a more valuable token in exchange. Of course they drop an evil furniture token in there to catch those who don't fully check the trade before locking in. They claim accident when caught and run off.

As a seller let the buyer lock in first, don't be rushed. If something "changes" at the last moment just right click the window to cancel it quickly.

How dare you use a common sense approach !! Don't you know Trade Windows are Safe Zones that need government control because the people aren't capable on their own..#BigUOGovernment.

 

[Cyrah]

Just was told it does not matter if the buyer checks first, as soon as you do he undoes his check, changes amount, checks again. What!

 

[MalagAste]

Yet the DEVs insist they have tested and tested this and it cannot be done...

 

[Spartan]

Use your heads, people. Doesn't Bleak or Kyronix play TC sometimes? Get with them and replicate the ability. Then and only then will they believe it can happen ... and that it is reproducible. If any of us can do it and they can't, then they ain't testing right.

 

[MrMightySmith]

I tested this for 2 minutes one day and Its blatantly obvious it a bug that needs fixing.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Video the bug in action, showing all steps and email it directly to Broadsword.

 

[DJAd]

Video the bug in action, showing all steps and email it directly to Broadsword.

Luckily I've not come across this bug / scam. How does it work? I will happily make a video to show it but I don't know what's going on.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[MalagAste]

Luckily I've not come across this bug / scam. How does it work? I will happily make a video to show it but I don't know what's going on.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Dunno but maybe you could find someone to test this with and video it...

 

[TheGrimReefer]

If someone wants to get together and video the transaction, ill be glad to help you out. Just message me.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Dunno but maybe you could find someone to test this with and video it...

I know someone great at videos @Wing Zero Straight Edge

 

[Xris]

I just got back on UO and lost 45m to this a few days ago. I really cant afford to lose that kind of gold on day 5. This is (one of many) reasons why new/returning players just end up quitting. Im going to keep playing, but its evident GMs and Devs could care less about ANY of your problems. Im just saying, maybe GMs and and Devs could actually try and help instead of copy and pasting and leaving you frustrated. This is one reason people play games like WoW, there you can reclaimed hacked accounts, and you get the feeling they will actually help you.

Sorry to vent this here, i just keep trying to come back to UO, and it gets frustrating how unhelpful GMs are.

/endrant

 

[Lore]

PVP in trade windows. Fair game play. You can get ripped off IRL and now you can in game. Kidding...

 

[Spartan]

Once more into the fray ... why not get Kyronix or Bleak or someone onto TC with the proper client and show them as you do a trade scam. That will prove how easy it is to reproduce, prove that it does exist. Hmmm?

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

Luckily I've not come across this bug / scam. How does it work? I will happily make a video to show it but I don't know what's going on.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

don't worry! according 2 u in other thread this doesn't count as scam! is all good!

lol

 

[Phantasmagorian]

I got scammed out of 170M today. In the chat they were saying I wasn't paying attention, but I was. I put in two items. The buyer put in the sum and accepted. I read the sum and made sure it was 170M. I read it again to make sure it was the correct sum. I accepted. And yet did not get the correct sum. Whatever happened, it doesn't seem like it was visible to the human naked eye. Something must have occured a glimpse before I hit accept.

Now, last year a thief stole a power scroll out of inventory right after I bought it off a vendor in Felucca. It was annoying, but it also made me chuckle. "Well played, sir", I thought. It's part of the intended game mechanics and gameplay.

With these trade window scams, something fishy is happening, and I wouldn't say it's intended game mechanics and gameplay. wrote a GM and got a message back saying: "Though we sympathize with your loss, I'm afraid we are unable to reimburse items lost to scams or any other breech of confidence. "

Only it's not a breach of confidence, it's a scam.

I agree with this simple fix:

Yep! A warning message should just prompt after both ticks are clicked so you can read over your deal. "Are you sure you want to make this purchase?" Would be simple enough. You click no and the deal cancels.

This would solve it. The crux of the problem is that for something so vital, a trade, there is no final confirmation. Additionally, any change could be logged in the journal: [Player name] added [item], [Player name] changed offer to [Gold Sum].


Another solution would be a sales contract that would work like a commodity deed, only able to hold various items (max 3?) and work like a container. You can buy it a bank for 10K. You put in items and you give them a price, like you do on the vendor. It deducts a fee based on the prices you set. Lets say you want to sell 3 items for 30M each. You put them in, set the price. Once you're done, it becomes a sale contract worth 90,000,000, containing [item 1, item 2, item 3]. When you put it in the trade window, the buyer can open and inspect it. the buyer can edit their price, it's fixed at the sales contract sum. Once done, both players get a receipt. Who sold what to whom and for how much.

 

[Captn Norrington]

A friend and I tested this extensively and weren't able to get the bug to work a single time. I don't know how this is still happening, because I couldn't get it to work under any circumstances.

There was no way to delete anything from either person's gold typing box once one of us clicked accept. We even switched which client was being used to see if it was a CC-CC, CC-EC, EC-EC thing... nope, still couldn't make it work.

 

[Pinco]

I did test this too and there is no way to change the gold amount once one of the parties have accepted the trade... so unless there is some deep hacking involved that allows you to inject new values directly into the server (highly unlikely), I think the problem is that most of the time people just rush to press accept before checking what's on the trade plate

 

[Cyrah]

Do I have this right... two honest players tried to recreate this issue and could not ? What a shock! I do not think for one moment that this is a bug. It is just another feature provided for cheaters is all.
There are existing cheats for almost every gold making aspect of UO. What do I know... llama.

 

[superfrog]

 

[Pinco]

if you say it CAN, provide details on how to replicate it so that someone could do something about it

 

[superfrog]

so you're calling everyone it's happened to stupid and or a liar?

 

[Phantasmagorian]

I didn't rush to accept and this still happened. As I already said in my post, besides the possibility of some weird hack/cheat being used, the only way this could have happened if right before I accepted the other party had a script that changed the amount and clicked accept within a flash, so quick that it was basically imperceptible. This doesn't require a deep hack, just a program that quickly changes the sum and re-accepts. If a program does this very quickly, you don't even get to see the numbers added or the accept check mark briefly disappearing.

...I provided solutions in my post and others have too. Having a final confirmation pop-up would be a simple solution.

 

[Phantasmagorian]

It's possible to paste in the sum into the trade window. There might also be a way to insta-delete. This means that I can write a simple script where I enter my fake sum in preparation for a scam deal.

Let's say 10M is the fake sum, real price is 100M.

I start a trade with someone, manually enter 100,000,000.. then my program, right before they hit accept, deletes the sum and pastes in 10,000,000 and re-accepts...within the blink of an eye, right before they hit accept on their end. Because the sum is pasted in and accept is hit a nanosecond after pasted in, the other party doesn't see it, and they are already about to click. Done deal.

 

[Pinco]

It's possible to paste in the sum into the trade window. There might also be a way to insta-delete. This means that I can write a simple script where I enter my fake sum in preparation for a scam deal.

Let's say 10M is the fake sum, real price is 100M.

I start a trade with someone, manually enter 100,000,000.. then my program, right before they hit accept, deletes the sum and pastes in 10,000,000 and re-accepts...within the blink of an eye, right before they hit accept on their end. Because the sum is pasted in and accept is hit a nanosecond after pasted in, the other party doesn't see it, and they are already about to click. Done deal.

it can't be done, because if you have accepted the amount of gold, NONE of the two parties can change it, no matter how fast you are... I've already tried to do a script that does that, but the server blocks every possible change if any of the 2 parties have accepted.
The only way to change the gold amount is if BOTH parties don't have the accept tick, so the only way to do what you're saying is if they actually hack into the server somehow because you can't do it with a simple script client side.

Oh and yes, the confirm dialog could solve the problem if it was just a speed thing, but if they hack the value beyond the client it wouldn't work either...

 

[Phantasmagorian]

it can't be done, because if you have accepted the amount of gold, NONE of the two parties can change it, no matter how fast you are... I've already tried to do a script that does that, but the server blocks every possible change if any of the 2 parties have accepted.
The only way to change the gold amount is if BOTH parties don't have the accept tick, so the only way to do what you're saying is if they actually hack into the server somehow because you can't do it with a simple script client side.

Oh and yes, the confirm dialog could solve the problem if it was just a speed thing, but if they hack the value beyond the client it wouldn't work either...

Well, we don't know what it is. I know that I didn't rush into the deal. I read the sum twice and carefully. So the only way is if with a script you just do "untick, paste in fake sum, tick" and this happens way faster than manually. If you time it right and the other party was about to click, the click lands and you got yourself your sweet deal. That's what I am talking about.

Whatever the method, the problem of this UI design is that the offer and acceptance are in some weird potential cat & mouse game. If a confirmation would pop-up separately, this wouldn't be possible. If it would still occur, it would indicate it might be some server hack.

There is another thread about this that explains more in detail of what's going on: Trade Window Scamming.. a Warning

 

[Phantasmagorian]

I just loaded up EC, and a simple ctrl+a --> ctrl+v works to select everything and replace the sum. So with a script that part can be made instant. Accept - swap sum - accept, and then try to time this right before the seller hits accept.

 

[Pinco]

I just loaded up EC, and a simple ctrl+a --> ctrl+v works to select everything and replace the sum. So with a script that part can be made instant. Accept - swap sum - accept, and then try to time this right before the seller hits accept.

if you accept change and then accept again (and the other does nothing), you can do what you want, but when the other accept you can't change anymore... if the problem is that they change the amount BEFORE you accept then it's not a bug is just a plain scam like you can do in real by switching the real money with monopoly money at the last second without them realizing

Anyway in that case, the best solution would be disabling your accept button for 1-2s after the other guy has changed the gold amount and highlight the new value so you simply can't accept until you check again
I'm going to add this right now to my UI, thanks for the idea

 

[Phantasmagorian]

if you accept change and then accept again (and the other does nothing), you can do what you want, but when the other accept you can't change anymore... if the problem is that they change the amount BEFORE you accept then it's not a bug is just a plain scam like you can do in real by switching the real money with monopoly money at the last second without them realizing

Anyway in that case, the best solution would be disabling your accept button for 1-2s after the other guy has changed the gold amount and highlight the new value so you simply can't accept until you check again
I'm going to add this right now to my UI, thanks for the idea

A bit more than a plain scam if aided by a script that can do this instantly on EC, so on CC you won't see anyone filling in new numbers. Even without script, it seems on EC you can replace the sum with one move, in CC I haven't found a way yet. I will have to check how it looks on the side of CC when the EC side does this.

 

[Pinco]

A bit more than a plain scam if aided by a script that can do this instantly on EC, so on CC you won't see anyone filling in new numbers. Even without script, it seems on EC you can replace the sum with one move, in CC I haven't found a way yet. I will have to check how it looks on the side of CC when the EC side does this.

yeah is not a plain scam, but a scam non the less, like the 3 cups game

Anyway, now my UI has the protection system active, everytime the other party changes the gold/platinum amount, your accept button will be disabled for 2 seconds and the new gold/platinum offer will be highlighted in red so you'll have the time to check what's going on. With this system in place if they keep changing the amount you simply won't be able to accept and hopefully you should avoid the scam for good

 

[Phantasmagorian]

yeah is not a plain scam, but a scam non the less, like the 3 cups game

Anyway, now my UI has the protection system active, everytime the other party changes the gold/platinum amount, your accept button will be disabled for 2 seconds and the new gold/platinum offer will be highlighted in red so you'll have the time to check what's going on. With this system in place if they keep changing the amount you simply won't be able to accept and hopefully you should avoid the scam for good

Nice for EC users.

 

[Tabin]

yeah is not a plain scam, but a scam non the less, like the 3 cups game

Anyway, now my UI has the protection system active, everytime the other party changes the gold/platinum amount, your accept button will be disabled for 2 seconds and the new gold/platinum offer will be highlighted in red so you'll have the time to check what's going on. With this system in place if they keep changing the amount you simply won't be able to accept and hopefully you should avoid the scam for good

On behalf of all pinco ui users, thank you!

 

[Ruby Knight]

It happens on a daily basis. Want a video of it? Advertise a High end Item at a high price and wait for someone to say, I'll take that. Put your item in the trade window. Wait for the buyer to enter amount. Wait 5 seconds and watch it go from 300,000,000 to 30,000,000. I have had the same player with different names do this to me all day long thinking they can rip me off. Be safe. Put your items on a vendor or Auction safe. Want a super easy fix @Mesanna @Kronix ? Take away the sell cap on vendors. Problem solved. Done and done! Or make a Bank auction safe that anyone can use. Both would be a great Gold sink too!

P.S. Just because a Dev cannot recreate the bug does not mean it doesn't exist. Some of us see it every day. Here's a thought... @Devs Create a character and see above way to witness the bug.

 

[Scribbles]

its not a bug. its perhaps at best an exploit. There is nothing the devs can do other than redesign the way trades are done.

Here is how it works.

player a and player b are making trade
player a is selling and player b is buying.
player a puts item in window
player b puts in gold amount

This is where player b still has option to remove a 0 before either party clicks checkbox.
Player b removes zero right before player a checks box
player a doesnt see that player b has removed zero and checks box
player b then checks box and transaction is done.


Moral of the story is simple. always make the person putting in gold amount check box first.

 

[Ruby Knight]

Scribbles, Even if they check the box first they can change it. I have seen it done dozens of times.

 

[Phantasmagorian]

its not a bug. its perhaps at best an exploit. There is nothing the devs can do other than redesign the way trades are done.

Here is how it works.

player a and player b are making trade
player a is selling and player b is buying.
player a puts item in window
player b puts in gold amount

This is where player b still has option to remove a 0 before either party clicks checkbox.
Player b removes zero right before player a checks box
player a doesnt see that player b has removed zero and checks box
player b then checks box and transaction is done.


Moral of the story is simple. always make the person putting in gold amount check box first.

It'd be nice if people would read the thread they respond too. It's been explained a dozen times, and like Ruby Knights says and I have said, what they actually do is accept first, then quickly unaccept-change-accept right before you click. And they can do this, among other reasons, because you can macro a sum change in EC. Select all, delete, copy paste, in a nanosecond.

Whether there is more involved remains to be seen. And that the trade needs to be re-designed has also been said and should be obvious. There should just be a bloody confirmation window after accepting. A trade shouldn't be a cat and mouse game of this sort.

As for vendor fees/caps: yes, fix that too and solve this problem.

 

[CovenantX]

Scribbles, Even if they check the box first they can change it. I have seen it done dozens of times.

Scribbles is right.

They check the box first to prompt to the other party that they're ready to trade... so in that sense, the person doing the scamming normally has to check their box first, then they uncheck - backspace - check again, takes less than a second, without any "macroes or scripts", and the 2nd party could (and apparently often does) unknowingly sell their item for 10% (minus 1 digit) of their agreed price.

Tested in both EC & CC & CC with UOA.

some-kind of confirmation gump, or a 5-10 second countdown for trade finalization would help a lot with this issue. Even with the confirmation though, you'd still need to pay attention to the gold amount you're receiving.

 

[Phantasmagorian]

The point is that a macro or even using keyboard shortcuts (select all, delete, paste) is faster in EC and you can't do that in CC. You can paste, but not select all or delete the full sum instantly in CC, as far as I can tell.

And Scribbles just gave you the scenario of "let the buyer accept first"....many do that and still get scammed, because the scammer tries to time the acceptance and quickly switch the sum before you click.

By the way, since you can't select all->delete->paste in CC, CC users will expect sum entries/deletion to be obvious. You see numbers appear or disappear one by one. If you just use EC's select all->delete->paste, I wonder how that looks in CC.

 

[Pawain]

They hit someone that was trading on Atl from LS today. 130,000,000 turned into 13,000,000.

 

[Scribbles]

It'd be nice if people would read the thread they respond too. It's been explained a dozen times, and like Ruby Knights says and I have said, what they actually do is accept first, then quickly unaccept-change-accept right before you click. And they can do this, among other reasons, because you can macro a sum change in EC. Select all, delete, copy paste, in a nanosecond.

Whether there is more involved remains to be seen. And that the trade needs to be re-designed has also been said and should be obvious. There should just be a bloody confirmation window after accepting. A trade shouldn't be a cat and mouse game of this sort.

As for vendor fees/caps: yes, fix that too and solve this problem.

Please feel free to prove it. I have 5 computers, run ec and cc, run vpns, and other misc. programs.... I have not been able to reproduce what anyone here is talking about. As far as I am concerned people are mad they got ripped off over a simple exploit that is easily avoidable. Their Pride has been hurt so they feel the need to complain about a bug that doesnt exist.

Until anyone produces a video or some other form of legit proof this topic is an unwarranted complaint.

Scribbles, Even if they check the box first they can change it. I have seen it done dozens of times.

yet you have no proof of this. If I had seen this multiple times id probably get wise and record it for the devs sake.


In summary... On a good day i do somewhere around 20 trades a day with random people. I have never been ripped off or seen anyone attempt to rip me off.


Im not saying its not possible. Im just saying that if its this prevalent in the game we should probably have some proof by now.

 

[Archnight]

Always make the person putting in gold amount check box first.

Honestly this should be done for ALL trades going forward, I would even add a minimum wait period of a few extra seconds to avoid the buyer enough time to remove a zero from the amount once clicked... some have mentioned this was also happening

 

[Ruby Knight]

Scribbles,,

Thanks for calling all of us liars because you cannot seem to be able to reproduce the exploit/scam on your 5 computers and vpns, blahdy, blah, blah.

I don't know how to make a video on my screen play other than recording it on my phone. But I suspect you'd probably say it was edited. Try this. Make a generic character on Atlantic. Spam that you are selling something expensive for 225 mil. PVP gear, Taming 3, etc. Do this when there is a lot of pvp chatter going on. When a generic name offers to pay you what your asking, start the trade but wait until they check their box. Count to 10 and watch their gold offer. You should be in CC by the way.

I guarantee that you will first hand witness the exploit being done on you. Or continue to deny that the exploit exists and bash us for saying that it does.

 

[Captn Norrington]

I just really don't understand how it's possible that all the people testing this specifically looking for it can't get it to work even once, yet there seems to be too many people complaining about it for it to not actually be happening. A couple of people talking about it could just be mad they got scammed, but I've heard probably 25+ people say this happened to them, it seems unlikely they'd all be saying it if it didn't actually happen to them.

Yet on the other hand I look at who is testing it:

1. Pinco, the guy who probably knows just as much if not more about UO mechanics and bug testing as the developers themselves.
2. All of the actual UO developers
3. Scribbles, who has always been able to figure out how bugs and exploits work for all of the many years I've known him

All of who are highly experienced dealing with finding and understanding UO bugs and technical issues. Plus my own experience testing it and seeing no way to do this, although admittedly I know nothing about scripts and EC macros.

I'm not saying people are lying about it, but I have a hard time believing such a huge bug/exploit could manage to not get discovered by the people listed above who find stuff like this all the time if it really did exist in the way people are describing.

 

[Ruby Knight]

Tell me what program I need to use to create a video from my desktop and I'll happily create a video of it happening to me. They try it every day with me. Two toons specifically. I have no problem proving it. I just don't know what program will record the desktop.

 

[Tyrath]

I just really don't understand how it's possible that all the people testing this specifically looking for it can't get it to work even once, yet there seems to be too many people complaining about it for it to not actually be happening. A couple of people talking about it could just be mad they got scammed, but I've heard probably 25+ people say this happened to them, it seems unlikely they'd all be saying it if it didn't actually happen to them.

Yet on the other hand I look at who is testing it:

1. Pinco, the guy who probably knows just as much if not more about UO mechanics and bug testing as the developers themselves.
2. All of the actual UO developers
3. Scribbles, who has always been able to figure out how bugs and exploits work for all of the many years I've known him

All of who are highly experienced dealing with finding and understanding UO bugs and technical issues. Plus my own experience testing it and seeing no way to do this, although admittedly I know nothing about scripts and EC macros.

I'm not saying people are lying about it, but I have a hard time believing such a huge bug/exploit could manage to not get discovered by the people listed above who find stuff like this all the time if it really did exist in the way people are describing.

Before I left I sold a few things and in one of the trades it was a item for 60,000,000. I am a slow clicker and noticed that the buyers gold amount kept changing to 6,000,000 after the 4th or 5th time of canceling and starting the transaction over I just quit trying to trade the item to that individual. A few minutes later someone else purchased the item and the numbers did not keep changing on their side. The numbers changed Fast and it looked like their box was checked the entire time, I am guessing there was a script or macro doing the changing so fast that at best the box unchecking and rechecking was a blip. I have also noticed in most trades folks race to get the confirm boxes checked, it would not be a stretch to assume that the scammers (Although I find it hard to even call this a scam) simply have the timing worked out to a narrow window of when the average person clicks and and either manually or artificially is fast enough to make that split second change in that time frame, thus it goes without notice as the seller clicks confirm/accept. Just my guessing from what I saw as to what is going on, with this.

Not calling anyone a liar or making this up as it is within the realm of possibility that there is something more dubious going on than taking advantage of peoples natural habit to rush through everything. And lol a whole lot of folks said the pets just disappearing was a myth but more than a few of us had pets just go poof never to be seen again. So just because it is not easily repeatable does not mean it does not happen. But the trade window one as common as folks are saying it is, if it is a actual problem with the game mechanics, should be easily repeated.

 

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Tell me what program I need to use to create a video from my desktop and I'll happily create a video of it happening to me. They try it every day with me. Two toons specifically. I have no problem proving it. I just don't know what program will record the desktop.

OBS is free. but you can just google free video recording software. and several pop up.