Time for more feedback?

[Robin_of_Moxy]

Hey guys after playing VvV a bit now since the last changes I have made some observations and can recommend some reasonable adjustments to help enhance the VvV experience. The changes I am offering here have one goal in mind. Drawing more players into VvV, Felucca, and the PvP environment.

That being said my overall opinion of VvV is good. It is a great concept at it's base and clearly the devs are approaching it in a way to make the players happy with it. There are however, a few glaring holes in the experience that is keeping us from keeping the goal of reviving the PvP player base. The first of which is the removal of two templates from the game of VvV. Those are the Stealthing Thief and the Thief Hunter. I understand why the devs nerfed the hiding player but, in the way you have went about it removes the game of cat an mouse than many enjoyed. The need to stop the "Hiding inactive player" is both clear and a must. After alot of thought it would seem to me the best way would be to do it in a way the encourages more participation though cat and mouse tatics. How you ask? Mana spikes! If we lower the mana spikes and increase they area of effect the hiding players will be revealed. The key is to lower the silver price on these to allow players to use them liberally. 50-100 silver perhaps. Keep a nice cooldown period to allow the stealther some time at least to work his magic. This will allow for more interaction rather than simply force the Stealther to stop playing cause they are no longer effective.

The second thing has to do with the draw of the the game of VvV and it's ability to retain players to the system. The key to this is how many silver points a guild can earn in an unopposed game. On the surface this may not make sense but, let me explain. Right now a guild of three players can occupy a town yet only hve enough time to earn 200 silver in most cases. This is not very enticing for the new players that might come join not to mention players that are looking for pvp and getting none. What happens is people just don't play very long. This makes it much harder to get a game going except during the peak ours. There is an easy fix to this though. Simply make the occupy counter slow to where a player would have time to get 400-500 during one game. This should be enough to entice players to still play during off hours. This would also be the most likely time for new players to pvp to get their feet wet as opposed to fighting only when the hard core pvpers are at their peak. As far as retention goes we need to lower the cost of all consumables. Below is a chart of suggesting pricing. Following this chart or something similar will keep those playing continuing to play once they have gotten a taste.

POTIONS: 100 Silver - Lets get the potion cost down to where you can afford to use them all the time.
ESSENCE OF COURAGE: 25 Silver - This is a hassle and has little benefit. Drop the price or just drop it.
WAR MOUNTS: 500 Silver - Price is fine but lets allow players to res with bandaids please.
HAIR DYE: 2500 Silver - Price is fine. For future some cool Dye colors would add to the draw.
TRAPS: 100 Silver - No one uses these. Why would even have them unless priced to use.
CANNON TURRET: 500 Silver - These are not very strong anyway why not make it priced to use?
MANA SPIKE: 100 Silver - Solve the hiding player problem.
PARDON: 10,000 Silver - Price is fine
SCROLL OF TRANS: 10,000 - Price is fine
ROBES: 500 Silver - At 5000 all I can say is huh? Lets add buffs and give us a reason to use these.
TILES: 10,000 Silver - Price is fine
ARTIFACTS: 500 Silver - Price is well thought out.
BANNERS: 10,000 Silver - Price is fine.

Please guys give me some feedback here. Lets help the Devs make this a better game system for all!

 

[darkvulf]

I like that players can't res their pet without vet, don't change it.

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

I like that players can't res their pet without vet, don't change it.

If you die and your trying to get back into the fight it takes way too long. Not to mention running to luna stables is not a great idea for a VvV player. lol

 

[Glenny glenn]

If you die and your trying to get back into the fight it takes way too long. Not to mention running to luna stables is not a great idea for a VvV player. lol

For a short term fix log yourself out. Makes your pet disappear.


For my feedback hmm, I really think the system should include some type of permanency to the wins and losses. I know were looking for short term fights and I agree that should stay but atleast can we actually affect the town in some way like vendors or something while we control it. I know the time we would control it might be two hours tops but hey its something.

 

[Quickblade]

They need to do something with these VvV Robes at 5k silver, please make them imbuable with like 50 weight or something

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

For a short term fix log yourself out. Makes your pet disappear.


For my feedback hmm, I really think the system should include some type of permanency to the wins and losses. I know were looking for short term fights and I agree that should stay but atleast can we actually affect the town in some way like vendors or something while we control it. I know the time we would control it might be two hours tops but hey its something.

I agree with you 100% I miss that from factions. I hope the Devs will look at adding that in the near future. However, most of what I am suggesting can be done right away.

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

They need to do something with these VvV Robes at 5k silver, please make them imbuable with like 50 weight or something

Great idea! I fear though would have a better chance at getting the Devs give them some nice buffs. It would be something that could be done easier.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

I agree with pretty much all this...

I'd rather see stealthers stop occupation but not could towards occupying then lowering mana spikes more but both work. I'd also rather see trap last an entire engagement and bring back the trap removers that worked in factions to VvV but again if that is not something they want to do then I fully support dropping the to current trap down to 200. (I think 100 is a little low)

I know they are working on the MYUO as well as an in game score board and can't wait to see it. If possible it would be nice to have in game commands like "War Status" and "showscore" to find out if a current war is ongoing and and your points/kill score (kills - deaths = score)

That is all things right now that can be addressed in VvV and help continue its growth and participation.

Moving forward I hope VvV can begin to add more depth to its interactions.

Primarily having the option of sides. I know all the arguments against it but I have done factions as long as anyone and know that the problem is easy to fix if you give the option to join three sides, Virtue, Vice and Independent. Which actually translates to infinite sides. Virtue for good guilds that want to work with others. Vice for people who want to fight for evil with others. And the key is, Independent. Guilds that want to be on their own and not work with anyone outside of their guild or alliance.

Small guilds with one or two active members would benefit from having an in game alliance of Vice or Virtue to join so they can fight with people against a common enemy. Large guilds would benefit by having the ability to go independent and take on these Virtue/Vice alliances whereas right now they might not have large enough enemies to entice participation.

I can get people to fight against evil, protect the towns, save Britannia from the rising darkness etc. I can't get them to go fight the guy farming silver for deco. Not having these options and undefined conflicts is killing participation. Please give us a reason to log in and fight with these other groups.

Building on having good/evil/independent in the conflict, I'd love to see is the re-introduction of the town control. Taking control of a town for your guild, Virtue or Vice has always been a fantastic aspect of the game.

-Lore's Player

 

[SpyderBite]

They need to do something with these VvV Robes at 5k silver, please make them imbuable with like 50 weight or something

Exclude anything resembling these kinds of changes from Siege please. Thanks.

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

I agree with pretty much all this...

I'd rather see stealthers stop occupation but not could towards occupying then lowering mana spikes more but both work. I'd also rather see trap last an entire engagement and bring back the trap removers that worked in factions to VvV but again if that is not something they want to do then I fully support dropping the to current trap down to 200. (I think 100 is a little low)

-Lore's Player

Great compromise there. Allow stealthers to stop the occupation but, not count towards it. I would still like to see the drop in mana spike pricing as well though. Lets work the cat and mouse game back into the system.

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

Exclude anything resembling these kinds of changes from Siege please. Thanks.

It is true Siege is a different bread of animal. The goal I am hoping the devs look at is reviving pvp overall. Everyone of these changes is suggested with that end goal in mind.

 

[Lythos-]

What I'm going to say is a repeat of what I've mentioned in another thread. These suggestions might not go over well with everyone but it's some things i personally would consider fun. Feel free to chime in.

1- I want to be able to join without being in a guild. Almost ALL UO players are already established in guilds and it's against some guild rules to join another. Make it easier for new pvpers to test the water without having to worry about consequences of being in another guild.

2- I've never liked plain vanilla. I want to pick a side and I want to pick MY town of choice to defend. This is VicevsVirtue so who the hell am I in all this? All i see are conformed globs of oranges with the only objective is to kill everyone or sit on an alter for a small amount of silver. I want it to show up that I stand for good or evil and this is the town I love and defend. Could show like this: Player A [Vice, Skara]

Then you could possibly have allies. All Vice members of a town are green to other vice members of same town and against all others. All virtue members of a town are allied to other virtue members of a town and orange to all others.

3- It's been mentioned before there's a small window of time to catch what town to go to. Put it on the town criers like the old lighthouse invasions or have some words to say in game that tells where to go.

JC the builder suggested a statue given to the top VvV player as a reward. Even if it's a mini statue i think that would be a great collectable.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

What I'm going to say is a repeat of what I've mentioned in another thread. These suggestions might not go over well with everyone but it's some things i personally would consider fun. Feel free to chime in.

1- I want to be able to join without being in a guild. Almost ALL UO players are already established in guilds and it's against some guild rules to join another. Make it easier for new pvpers to test the water without having to worry about consequences of being in another guild..

Love the idea, sign up directly on the Virtue or Vice stone (skipping ahead to your other ideas on towns) then you can declare a patron town to attack (Vice) or Defend (Virtue)

- I've never liked plain vanilla. I want to pick a side and I want to pick MY town of choice to defend. This is VicevsVirtue so who the hell am I in all this? All i see are conformed globs of oranges with the only objective is to kill everyone or sit on an alter for a small amount of silver. I want it to show up that I stand for good or evil and this is the town I love and defend. Could show like this: Player A [Vice, Skara]

Then you could possibly have allies. All Vice members of a town are green to other vice members of same town and against all others. All virtue members of a town are allied to other virtue members of a town and orange to all others.

I like the idea of a patron city. If you declare a specific city you get double silver, double points, and get a gump to teleport to defend it each time it comes up for battle (unless you are in an area you can't be teleported from like a Fel Dungeon, etc) take you directly to your patron town.... The drawback would be all other cities earn half silver, and points.

I like Vice being allied to only the Vice guilds dedicated to the same town/anti virtue. So Vice, Jhelom (Cowardice) would be green to the same faction of Vice but orange to Vice in general, Vice Moonglow (Deciet)... Makes sense you can't trust the Deceitful group or the cowardice group.. but Virtue people should be green to each other regardless... Virtue Jhelom (Valor) wouldn't fight and kill Virtue Moonglow (Honesty).

3- It's been mentioned before there's a small window of time to catch what town to go to. Put it on the town criers like the old lighthouse invasions or have some words to say in game that tells where to go.

Agree

JC the builder suggested a statue given to the top VvV player as a reward. Even if it's a mini statue i think that would be a great collectable.

If its not a person with the most accounts rotating all his alts to be killed so he has the highest score sure.... but even someone like me who does VvV with all his playing time to VvV isn't going to have close to the score of a cheater that isn't really involved... if you have such a nice unique reward it will encourage that behavior and the top 10 on each shard won't be people you've ever seen actually participate in VvV. That will cause a ton of frustration from honest people that should really at the top. That's not to say its not a great idea, only they will have to put mechanics into game that limit how someone can exploit the points.... (characters on linked accounts don't add to your score, characters with a -1 or less - kill to death ratio gives credit for 0 kills points, etc)

To many times changes to silver and kill points were added to factions without people understanding how players exploit those systems. I am all for these ideas but they should be posted with specifics on how to stop the systems from being exploited.

That has always been the issue with the focus groups, great ideas without awareness of how those ideas might be exploited and ruined in real game play,

-Lore's Player

 

[Lythos-]

I like Vice being allied to only the Vice guilds dedicated to the same town/anti virtue. So Vice, Jhelom (Cowardice) would be green to the same faction of Vice but orange to Vice in general, Vice Moonglow (Deciet)... Makes sense you can't trust the Deceitful group or the cowardice group.. but Virtue people should be green to each other regardless... Virtue Jhelom (Valor) wouldn't fight and kill Virtue Moonglow (Honesty).

While the Virtue idea sounds very sensible, it still leaves room for the piggybacking that factions had. There's a lot of people that simply don't want to work together and also there's people that exist to ride coat-tails. While it makes sense in theory, It may not work out well in game.

If its not a person with the most accounts rotating all his alts to be killed so he has the highest score sure.... but even someone like me who does VvV with all his playing time to VvV isn't going to have close to the score of a cheater that isn't really involved... if you have such a nice unique reward it will encourage that behavior and the top 10 on each shard won't be people you've ever seen actually participate in VvV. That will cause a ton of frustration from honest people that should really at the top. That's not to say its not a great idea, only they will have to put mechanics into game that limit how someone can exploit the points.... (characters on linked accounts don't add to your score, characters with a -1 or less - kill to death ratio gives credit for 0 kills points, etc)

To many times changes to silver and kill points were added to factions without people understanding how players exploit those systems. I am all for these ideas but they should be posted with specifics on how to stop the systems from being exploited.

That has always been the issue with the focus groups, great ideas without awareness of how those ideas might be exploited and ruined in real game play,
-Lore's Player

JC's statue idea or any other in game gifts could be handled by only counting kills within city fights. Any system can be exploited in some way but maybe if it's limited to a combat zone it'll be less likely.

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

1- I want to be able to join without being in a guild. Almost ALL UO players are already established in guilds and it's against some guild rules to join another. Make it easier for new pvpers to test the water without having to worry about consequences of being in another guild.

You do not have have your entire guild join like in Factions. One person can be in and one can be out of VvV but, be in the same guild.

2- I've never liked plain vanilla. I want to pick a side and I want to pick MY town of choice to defend. This is VicevsVirtue so who the hell am I in all this? All i see are conformed globs of oranges with the only objective is to kill everyone or sit on an alter for a small amount of silver. I want it to show up that I stand for good or evil and this is the town I love and defend. Could show like this: Player A [Vice, Skara]

I do miss towns like we had in Factions. What you talk about here would be an very nice addition. However, it is likely something that would take a while to implement. Lets hope the Devs make the changes they can do easily quickly and get the party rolling with more players.

3- It's been mentioned before there's a small window of time to catch what town to go to. Put it on the town criers like the old lighthouse invasions or have some words to say in game that tells where to go.

Great idea! And something that is both needed and could serve as adverting to get more people involved as well.

JC the builder suggested a statue given to the top VvV player as a reward. Even if it's a mini statue i think that would be a great collectable.

All for this.. Would add something to the game and the competition.

 

[drcossack]

If you die and your trying to get back into the fight it takes way too long. Not to mention running to luna stables is not a great idea for a VvV player. lol

Assuming you can even GO to Luna...

I don't really have too much to add at the moment, so I'll do that another time.

 

[SpyderBite]

It is true Siege is a different bread of animal. The goal I am hoping the devs look at is reviving pvp overall. Everyone of these changes is suggested with that end goal in mind.

That's all and fine. But nothing good comes of introducing blessed rewards with mods on Siege. It took us 10 years to get faction arties unblessed.

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

That's all and fine. But nothing good comes of introducing blessed rewards with mods on Siege. It took us 10 years to get faction arties unblessed.

I understand. None of the arties in VvV are blessed so not sure what your talking about here.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

While the Virtue idea sounds very sensible, it still leaves room for the piggybacking that factions had.

That is true but also important for new players that aren't solid at pvp. Virtue (like TB before it) will cater to the less elite pvpers in general and the more helping types.

There's a lot of people that simply don't want to work together and also there's people that exist to ride coat-tails. While it makes sense in theory, It may not work out well in game.

That is why there would be Vice and Independent. If you don't want less skilled people riding your guild to the top then you can be Vice or Independent where you control who is on your side by letting them join your alliance(Indpendent) or killing them if they are taking the glory/silver or just annoy you (Vice).

I think the idea that some groups do not want to work with others (which is very true) has limited thinking that ALL groups don't want to work with others. When in reality many small and weaker groups would love to be involved but don't have the skill or numbers to compete so they don't join VvV. If they could join as part of Virtue and have others to work with it would be helpful.

If you allow small, less skilled to join Virtue but also allow more independent minded join Vice or make their own side in the fight you open the door for all types and will increase activity in VvV.

Building factions on Great Lakes from a dead system wasn't about taking elite pvpers and getting them to fight... It was about getting large numbers of small non pvp guilds to join factions... which drew out elite pvp groups into factions to fight us. Non pvpers became skilled at working together and pvping, elite pvp groups enjoyed taking on the larger army of tram "newbs" maybe they died but they prob killed 2-3 in the process.

When those newbs became skilled pvpers, tired of living in the shadows of the established TB hierarchy (trust me when I am running TB there is a ton of RP BS stuff I carry in to it) they usually left to another faction for the challenge of going on out their own, no longer needing the protection of the larger group. In most cases strong pvpers lose patience working with weaker players and move on once they acquire a level of competence.

VvV is great and I am enjoying it but it lacks a key element that will continue to stifle its growth until its addressed.

-Lore's Player