Throwing & Parry

[Luke Carjacker]

So, I've finally decided to make a Gargoyle. Haven't really been that interested since SA came out, but it's been a year so I thought I'd try something different. I've got all sorts of archers, mages, a sampire, crafter, bard, tamer, etc. So, I thought I'd put together something I haven't done before.

Comparing throwing to archery, seems to me the biggest advantage is that you can use a shield while holding a throwing weapon. This is probably offset by the fact that you can chug potions with a balanced bow, but the throwing/shield combo does give more slots for mods. Since it will be more difficult to use potions with this setup, I'm thinking of 4/6 casting, with chivalry, SW, ninjitsu maybe; haven't totally decided.

The big question I have is what is the status when holding a shield while trying to throw? All of the info that I can find on the subject is outdated. Stratics and the other online guide still say that you need swordsmanship to supplement throwing for close-up combat - I'm pretty sure I read that this was eliminated but it is still in the guide. There are some vague references to how holding a shield causes HCI and DCI penalties for a thrower, but that this penalty can be offset by investing points in parry. Does anyone have up-to-date info on this?

I know throwing has it's drawbacks, like first shot always missing, hit and damage penalties based on distance, etc. But, I have enough archers already so I'm going to try something different. Just need to know if I should build my template & suit to include parry, or if it's too much of a penalty to carry a shield.

 

[Bleak]

So, I've finally decided to make a Gargoyle. Haven't really been that interested since SA came out, but it's been a year so I thought I'd try something different. I've got all sorts of archers, mages, a sampire, crafter, bard, tamer, etc. So, I thought I'd put together something I haven't done before.

Comparing throwing to archery, seems to me the biggest advantage is that you can use a shield while holding a throwing weapon. This is probably offset by the fact that you can chug potions with a balanced bow, but the throwing/shield combo does give more slots for mods. Since it will be more difficult to use potions with this setup, I'm thinking of 4/6 casting, with chivalry, SW, ninjitsu maybe; haven't totally decided.

The big question I have is what is the status when holding a shield while trying to throw? All of the info that I can find on the subject is outdated. Stratics and the other online guide still say that you need swordsmanship to supplement throwing for close-up combat - I'm pretty sure I read that this was eliminated but it is still in the guide. There are some vague references to how holding a shield causes HCI and DCI penalties for a thrower, but that this penalty can be offset by investing points in parry. Does anyone have up-to-date info on this?

I know throwing has it's drawbacks, like first shot always missing, hit and damage penalties based on distance, etc. But, I have enough archers already so I'm going to try something different. Just need to know if I should build my template & suit to include parry, or if it's too much of a penalty to carry a shield.

Great source -> Throwing - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
If i'm not mistaken first shot always missing should be fixed and I run with real 120 Parry on my shield thrower

 

[Merion]

I just finished training a thrower too. I also went with parry, but i'm not using a shield. Instead I managed to cram bushido into the template for the same effect (120 Busido + 120 parry: 35% chance to block; 120 Parry + shield: 35% chance to block).

It's a tight template tho and building a suit was tough. Had to sacrifice a bit of HPR and MR compared to my Archer suits.

Now, if they only would do away with that silly sweet spot mechanic, then throwing could be up to par with archery.

 

[Babble]

So is throwing any good?

 

[Babble]

opps ok if it is not en par with archery then not

It should at least do more damage if it needs a 'sweet spot'

 

[Luke Carjacker]

Great source -> Throwing - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
If i'm not mistaken first shot always missing should be fixed and I run with real 120 Parry on my shield thrower

Thanks for the response. Yeah, I read that page you linked to. In fact I quoted from it. "Penalties can be offset by investing points in parry". And I still don't have an answer to my question. How much parry does it take to offset the penalties? Do I need to go to 120 to offset all the penalties? 100? How am I supposed to know? With tactics, DI penalties are offset once you reach 50 tactics I think.

So, I'm glad to know that parry offsets the HCI/DCI penalties. I already knew that, as described in the original post. To restate the question, how much parry offsets how much penalty? How much parry do you need to fully offset the penalty?

I actually had an additional question that seems to have been answered. With bushido you can block with your throwing weapon it seems. That's a huge benefit over archery actually, where you cannot block with your bow.

 

[AzSel]

When I tried throwing + parrying I found out that you'll miss twice as much when holding a shield so not worth it imo (dont think its working right) and the first miss also put me off the skill.

If it was simply fixed it would be great.

 

[Babble]

You can always train, try and the soulstone it

 

[Merion]

test center might also be an option to test this. But yes, a statement from the devs would be nice. I'd post it in the Ask the Devs section, if I had the feeling it would be answered there.

Another thing I'm wondering is: can you counter the penalties from over- and underthrowing by having more HCI and DI on items?

 

[Luke Carjacker]

Well, the problem with just putting the skill on an trying it is that we know the RNG is streaky. So, if I could get 120 throwing & parry, find a target to throw at 1000 times (has to be the same target because things spawns with different combat values which will affect the hit rates), record all the results. Then try again 1000 more throws at at 120 throwing 100 parry, then 1000 throws at 120 throwing 80 parry, then 1000 throws at 120 throwing 50 parry...and then what's that going to prove?

Say there's a 5 or 10% difference in HCI between 100 parry and 120 parry. A dumb RNG streak would pretty much nullify the difference. As someone who has looked at an imbuing success chance of 20% (1 in 5 success rate) and failed 50+ times in a row, I can tell you that testing and recording the results is pretty much useless, except to identify huge discrepancies. Yes, I can tell the difference between when I have 50 weapons skill and 120 weapons skill, but do you really think you can tell a difference when you have 110 & 120 skill? Against most targets that you could test against, there would be no measurable difference, but in PvP, these small variances can and do make the difference between life and death; which is why PvPers go to such great lengths and expenditure to get any small edge.

So why keep people guessing? We know exactly how much DI a weapon has, we have exact formulas for calculating the effect of tactics on damage, we know what the cap on HCI, etc. etc. etc. What's the big secret about how parry affects throwing?

Maybe I'll just go the bushido route too because it's too frustrating trying to get an answer about holding a shield...