they are the game developers. if they put out a crappy product there's nothing we can do about it. they stated last night that no one will be seeing SA until it is pretty much done.
pretty much all you can do to protest is cancel your accounts.
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Thoughts on the Town Hall announcements of the new new client and SA compatability...
- Thread starter Dermott of LS
- Start date
- Watchers 1
pretty much all you can do to protest is cancel your accounts.
T
Thrand Graywolf
Guest
It needed to be.
It amazes me that they can't make something at least as good as the original 12 year old client. Maybe the third time is the charm?
I love KR too, but I use that term loosly. My UO experience is not without aggrivation and worry that I will not have a macro go off and then crash. (I play with my toes crossed!)
It's 2008/2009. It's time EA starts following the established "how to make a client" rules book, and not follow the "how to build a basement system" book.
Have an extensive Beta testing, but like JC said, they should have someone ALREADY working on the fundamentals. Beta might be too late.
It's 2008/2009. It's time EA starts following the established "how to make a client" rules book, and not follow the "how to build a basement system" book.
Have an extensive Beta testing, but like JC said, they should have someone ALREADY working on the fundamentals. Beta might be too late.
Err....You do realize that KR is using the Gamebryo engine already right? Do you think KR looks good?Gamebryo engine!??! ARE YOU SERIOUS?
There is NO WAY they can make this engine look bad, that is the engine that for Elder Scrolls uses, Warhammert, Fallout 3, DAOC, Empire Earth II and III have, there is no excuse why SA should look bad with this engine, it is possibly one of the best engines that there is...
What is finished is good. It's unfortunate that the dev team was unable to finish the item and and house art. Hopefully that's what they have been working on behind the scenes.Err....You do realize that KR is using the Gamebryo engine already right? Do you think KR looks good?Gamebryo engine!??! ARE YOU SERIOUS?
There is NO WAY they can make this engine look bad, that is the engine that for Elder Scrolls uses, Warhammert, Fallout 3, DAOC, Empire Earth II and III have, there is no excuse why SA should look bad with this engine, it is possibly one of the best engines that there is...
B
Beastmaster
Guest
Dermott, I just want to say I have alot of respect for your approach to the prospective changes and your dedication to something you believe in (a modern client). I've read through most of this thread and have a question for the posters here regarding their expectations of a new client. But rather than hijack your thread I'll start a new one.
Good luck with your modding adventures.
Good luck with your modding adventures.
R
RoycroftLS
Guest
Exploiters and hackers are always going to flock to the easiest and most accessible way to achieve their goals. Right now that easiest way is through the 2D client. That's not accusatory, it's the simple truth.
As rumors have suggested, the KR client isn't much safer, but how much of that is because it has to support the same data stream as the 2D client? I understand the fear of alienating the 2D client core player base, but it still seems rather backwards that each new client has to be shackled down by the restraints of being compatible with a 10 year old piece of software. Shouldn't there be a focus on improving the weakest link in the security chain?
I agree that if hackers are given enough time and are dedicated enough, no client is 100% secure. But that doesn't mean that it is a hopeless situation. Most modern security measures focus on making the reward-obtained versus time-invested ratio so low that it's not worth the hackers time to find a way in. The fact that EA hasn't made any dedicated effort to try to make hacking the game more difficult is rather disconcerting to me.
Dermott of LS,
I want to thank you for your clarity and perseverance about the client situation. Few people have the ability to look at the problem and address it with anything but a selfish kneejerk (and usually neo-luddite) response. It's nice to know that there are people out there who have the long-view about how the clients will impact the future of the game for everyone - people who know that if the game, and its players, refuse to modernize and adapt, there won't be a game and players for very long.
You're not just a champion of KR. You're a champion of UO. The amount of poop shoveled at you on the forums for both the former and the latter should shame us all.
I want to thank you for your clarity and perseverance about the client situation. Few people have the ability to look at the problem and address it with anything but a selfish kneejerk (and usually neo-luddite) response. It's nice to know that there are people out there who have the long-view about how the clients will impact the future of the game for everyone - people who know that if the game, and its players, refuse to modernize and adapt, there won't be a game and players for very long.
You're not just a champion of KR. You're a champion of UO. The amount of poop shoveled at you on the forums for both the former and the latter should shame us all.
L
Lily
Guest
I knew it was the same engine..
In fact, wikipedia doesn't even have KR listed as a gamebryo game....
Gamebyro is the same engine that Elder Scrolls: Oblivon and Morrowind use, along with Fallout 3, I KID YOU NOT!
That is why I couldn't understand how KR looked so horrible..
I can't BELIEVE that this is still a talking point.
It looks the way it does BECAUSE of the 2D client and compatibility issues. They can't take full advantage of the engine because they have to dumb it down so that 2D and KR can coexist. The reason SA was GOING to be KR only was so they COULD take full advantage of the client, remove the tile-based movement crap, and show the players a real game. Instead, as usual, all the whiners whined and they're going to serve up another load of garbage.
This is seriously the best game out there. SO much to do, options for everyone... except they're never ever going to get *new* players like other games do unless they ditch the 2d tile-based crap and move forward. You can all keep hugging your 2D client until the day they pull the plug... which is guaranteed to be sooner if they can't offer something to new players and to vets who can't bear to look at 2D and want to see the fabulous CONTENT of the game move forward technologically.
Lily
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Lily, if that's true, and I'm starting to believe it more and more (no offense, but you know people say lots of things), then it was a critical mistake on their part.
The main and almost exclusive reason I never liked both KR and the older 3D was the way the avatars looked and moved (in the 3D).
Different people look at different things while playing. For example, my son liked the old 3D because the spell effects were "sweet". I liked that too, but the avatars killed it for me beyond hope. And that dopey walk they had drove me nuts. Who walks like that? heh
But some people notice primarily the surroundings, some the character avatars, and some both. I'd say both engines had low acceptance because the avatars were a turn off to something like 2/3 of players. Very rough guess but that's more about a point than accuracy.
The main and almost exclusive reason I never liked both KR and the older 3D was the way the avatars looked and moved (in the 3D).
Different people look at different things while playing. For example, my son liked the old 3D because the spell effects were "sweet". I liked that too, but the avatars killed it for me beyond hope. And that dopey walk they had drove me nuts. Who walks like that? heh
But some people notice primarily the surroundings, some the character avatars, and some both. I'd say both engines had low acceptance because the avatars were a turn off to something like 2/3 of players. Very rough guess but that's more about a point than accuracy.
Be realistic. Its all vapourware. KR artwork was released 2 years ago, and marketing still hasnt decided whether there is a box or not? We are still at the conceptual stage, at 0% complete.
There is only 1 programmer on the team, so unless it is outsourced or they bring in more programmers, its going to be hard for that single programmer to build a new client from scratch as well as do what he does now.
...
There is only 1 programmer on the team, so unless it is outsourced or they bring in more programmers, its going to be hard for that single programmer to build a new client from scratch as well as do what he does now.
I would venture to say that this is now incorrect.
There is only 1 programmer on the team, so unless it is outsourced or they bring in more programmers, its going to be hard for that single programmer to build a new client from scratch as well as do what he does now.
I would venture to say that this is now incorrect.
If you consider world builders, graphics artists, and script developers as UI programmers than I am wrong.
...
I consider this statement by Jeremy:
There are a few more than that, but programmers are shy and I haven't gotten around to bullying them into introducing themselves.
I consider this statement by Jeremy:
There are a few more than that, but programmers are shy and I haven't gotten around to bullying them into introducing themselves.
Thats good news. I hope they are from WAR and decide to modify the WAR client for UO. REAL 3D!!!!!!...
I consider this statement by Jeremy:
There are a few more than that, but programmers are shy and I haven't gotten around to bullying them into introducing themselves.
E
Evilminion
Guest
Well, personally, the 2D engine is why I play UO, so I applaud their decision to retain backwards compatibility for those of us who grew up on Ultima and still love the isometric view.
For me, UO is a means to recapture the enjoyment I had with the Ultima series in the early '80's: it's familiar and very much the Ultima I've always loved. I certainly don't begrudge anyone else their desire to play in a 3D world, but please, don't begrudge me the desire to play legacy style.
Kudos again, UO devs, for taking both groups into consideration!
For me, UO is a means to recapture the enjoyment I had with the Ultima series in the early '80's: it's familiar and very much the Ultima I've always loved. I certainly don't begrudge anyone else their desire to play in a 3D world, but please, don't begrudge me the desire to play legacy style.
Kudos again, UO devs, for taking both groups into consideration!
I thought the original plan was for SA to be a big dungoen accessable only to KR users. when did SA become a new client.
A
AesSedai
Guest
- Evilminion,
A big reason why I always preferred playing UO was because of the 2D aspect, was because of the fixed perspective.
Yet, KR is also a 2D perspective; and I was quite happy it was (it wasn't elves and it wasn't 3D.. they did not sell UO out, imho).
And I hope that UO will always retain that preferred point-of-view, as it gives so many advantages to playing an MMO over the 3D-pretty view, imho.
But, my point being, the Legacy client was beloved by all of us at one time (unless we were introduced to UO after 3rd Dawn or the KR client & never looked at the ever-lasting Legacy client). Yet, in order to be able to bring more bang-for-the-buck, at some point in time we will need to move beyond the long-crippled Legacy client's abilities.
You want pirate expansions? Not happening with Legacy; maybe with Legacy 2.0, but that would not be Legacy. You want a better back-end? Not happening if piggy-backing Legacy. You want to move out of 1995 programming? Not happening with Legacy.
While I am happy to hear that Legacy will be in-cor-por-ated in the Stygian Abyss.. at the same time I am questioning whether it will be involved in 100% of SA; and if it is, I am saddened that the future of UO will remain limited by the ability of the ancient, the Legacy, the 2D client.
The only way the Legacy client can overcome its shortcomings is by becoming something that it is currently not.. What I mean by that, is that it will all have to be made anew by way of rewriting everything to be more efficient, and then essentially emulating what it was, but within an improved user/client, front/back-end environment.
Sorry, but UO's development will continue to be crippled due to the Legacy client until it becomes a new structure all-to-itself.
If we do not wish to see UO have swifter updates/publishes and expansions, then the Legacy client can last forever, and should. Yet, if we would like to see UO keep with the times & be able to update itself more smoothly, then I strongly feel that we will inevitably be seeing some changes to the original client; if not its complete retirement.
I guess it all depends on what we want out of UO: A stronger future -or- a niche MMO that may some day bring a retro appeal to some more new players, despite the futures of other MMOs.
EDIT: Beastmaster and anyone else:
I realized I strayed off topic here, so I just made another thread about your question. This thread here.
A big reason why I always preferred playing UO was because of the 2D aspect, was because of the fixed perspective.
Yet, KR is also a 2D perspective; and I was quite happy it was (it wasn't elves and it wasn't 3D.. they did not sell UO out, imho).
And I hope that UO will always retain that preferred point-of-view, as it gives so many advantages to playing an MMO over the 3D-pretty view, imho.
But, my point being, the Legacy client was beloved by all of us at one time (unless we were introduced to UO after 3rd Dawn or the KR client & never looked at the ever-lasting Legacy client). Yet, in order to be able to bring more bang-for-the-buck, at some point in time we will need to move beyond the long-crippled Legacy client's abilities.
You want pirate expansions? Not happening with Legacy; maybe with Legacy 2.0, but that would not be Legacy. You want a better back-end? Not happening if piggy-backing Legacy. You want to move out of 1995 programming? Not happening with Legacy.
While I am happy to hear that Legacy will be in-cor-por-ated in the Stygian Abyss.. at the same time I am questioning whether it will be involved in 100% of SA; and if it is, I am saddened that the future of UO will remain limited by the ability of the ancient, the Legacy, the 2D client.
The only way the Legacy client can overcome its shortcomings is by becoming something that it is currently not.. What I mean by that, is that it will all have to be made anew by way of rewriting everything to be more efficient, and then essentially emulating what it was, but within an improved user/client, front/back-end environment.
Sorry, but UO's development will continue to be crippled due to the Legacy client until it becomes a new structure all-to-itself.
If we do not wish to see UO have swifter updates/publishes and expansions, then the Legacy client can last forever, and should. Yet, if we would like to see UO keep with the times & be able to update itself more smoothly, then I strongly feel that we will inevitably be seeing some changes to the original client; if not its complete retirement.
I guess it all depends on what we want out of UO: A stronger future -or- a niche MMO that may some day bring a retro appeal to some more new players, despite the futures of other MMOs.
EDIT: Beastmaster and anyone else:
I realized I strayed off topic here, so I just made another thread about your question. This thread here.
B
Beastmaster
Guest
AesSedai, take a look at this pic. I believe it is from Fallout 3. If that perspective is an option, would it be acceptable to you?
link
N
Ni-
Guest
So is the SA Client...
- The KR client updated/finished(Gamebryo)? If so, what will change?
or
- Another gaming engine? If so, which engine?
- The KR client updated/finished(Gamebryo)? If so, what will change?
or
- Another gaming engine? If so, which engine?
F
Finch
Guest
lol Ain't that the tried and true response! We could make a top ten list of Dev responses, that I think that would be Number 1!