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This is a PVP NIGHTMARE!!!

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Hasekura, May 1, 2018.

  1. Hasekura

    Hasekura Adventurer
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    YES!!! As the title says. I have a question about nightmare skilled for pvp.

    I had an idea recently. To get a 2 slot nightmare.

    Build it like this:

    600 hp
    150 stamina
    500 mana

    700 str
    150 dex
    100 int

    20 hp regen
    30 mana regen

    Max damage
    Max resists (evenly)

    Poison
    Poison breath
    Magery mastery
    all 120 scrolls

    Soooo, my question is. What do you think? Waste of time? Good idea? Anyone tried something like that?

    Also i was thinking about doing necro/mage nightmare with poison breath... but that seems not worth it since its such a huge skill sink.

    Thanks for any input.
     
  2. Lex Darion

    Lex Darion Journeyman

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    I believe poison would override magic
    then you add magery mastery back again which will override poison.

    You can only have one magic school in effect.

    For PVP I like high int, high mana.
    For PVM high str, medium mana (500) and low int.
     
  3. Hasekura

    Hasekura Adventurer
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    You are correct about poison. Thats how i have planed it.
    Why high intelligence? The SDI should be minimal from what i heard and there are better creatures for using mind blast. High mana... Well, i guess 600 - 700 should boost its ability to use powerful spells.
     
  4. celticus

    celticus Lore Keeper

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    I think you should read carefully the PvP part and nerf for pets. In reality there seems to be NO pet good for PvP, if you are planning to PvP using only your pet due to the pet-PvP nerf. Unless you use special template that allows for decent PvP. If you want to PvP would avoid tamer toons at least for now. ==Pets do massive damage for PvM but are useless with PvP==. Pets in PvP are useful mostly for the debuffs it seems, and very few specials. I would try PvP with pets with some guildies in Tc1 and see how it works before you blow 150 M for an all 120s pet that you imagine be good in PvP..
     
  5. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    don't listen to celticus, he has no idea what he is talking about. it's usually all hearsay knowledge from him...

    if you want good advice on PvP pets and templates go to your guildmate Morgan. he is one of the few who actually made it work.
     
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  6. celticus

    celticus Lore Keeper

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    Nope..Not heresay : We tested every fully trained pet on one of our guildies, with decent armor, DCI of 30 or so, all 70's, and no magic resistance. There was a MINIMAL damage to him. He survived multiple hits, there was never a chance of one hit death, and he was just sitting there. We spent 1-2 hours doing this. There was only one pet that nearly killed him, and was mostly with debuff and a spec that will not be mentioned.
    Are you really playing the game sir, or you are just guessing? By the way when is the last time you PvP'd?
    Are you aware of the PvP nerf also?
    Even if you are not playing maybe you should read some posts specific to what you are referring?

    I think that you are mistaken if you dream that you can PvP with "these powerful new pets" : Their use is minimal, and only for debufs at best. If you try to PvP with a pet you need more that the pet. You need specialized template and also appropriate gear to supplement the pet.

    Sir, I justed to dispel the delusion that the new pets are or can be a boon to PvP, as they are now. There is only one spec that barely makes it, of all the different pets/specs. Again are we forgetting the pet PvP nerf?
     
  7. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    so you DID find a spec that works in PvP, which proves the point that tamers can PvP with the right spec and template. Also there are several specs that work in PvP. Only because you haven't found them doesn't mean that they don't exist.

    yes, I do PvP and I also do every other content this game has to offer, including tamers. I am very much aware of the taming nerfs for PvP and they have been rightfully nerfed because the nerf removed the ability to instantly kill a player with 150 hp with a certain pet build and template. Also it took care of pets that dismounted and stuck on you like glue because of their overcapped speed that was impossible to outrun even when mounted. Despite the nerfs however, there are still viable PvP templates for pets and tamers.

    This comment is somewhat telling about your expectations of tamers and pets in PvP. You seem to believe that investing 240 points in taming and lore should give you control over a pet that will be able to kill other players while all you have to do is say "all kill" and target.
    Of course you need a specialized template for both your tamer and the pet!!! You need to dedicate every single skill point of your template towards PvP if you want to PvP on a tamer - same as a caster or dexxer. No tamer template and pet template that works in PvM should work in PvP because that would make it imbalanced. No caster template or dexxer template that is great in PvM is any good in PvP either and vice versa. Why should this be different for taming??? The same goes for gear: what's great in PvM is absolutely worthless in PvP, so yes, a tamer who wants to PvP will need to run gear specialized towards that! Again: same rules apply to tamers as to all others.
    Correction: PvP tamer templates are able to do PvM content much better than PvP casters or dexxers, so there is a bit of an imbalance there but I guess it's not a drastic one that absolutely needs another nerf.

    again, you did find a spec that works! You're still wrong though in your assessment that there is only one spec that works. There are several. So please, when people ask whether there are PvP options for tamers, don't tell them it can't be done. Let people who actually know about this and have found ways to make it work answer their questions. Just because you believe it can't be done doesn't make it so.
     
  8. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    Just couple of thoughts about this.

    I have asked for someone to post a screen shot of them dead under someones pet for a year in UHall and I have seen none. Everybody just goes back to the speed thing when they talk about pets in Fel. That lasted what? Two weeks.

    You say it is fair to exclude "all Kill" from PvP because you have to dedicate all your skill points to other types in PvP. Why is it that somebody can return to the game with an imbued dexxer suit that has no reforged pieces on it and go right to Fel and get kills?

    Sure a tamer could aid in spawns. As long as there are other templates that can actually kill a skilled raiding group.

    Are you saying you can take your pet to a spawn alone and hold off a skilled raid?

    Can you kill a skilled PvP template one on one with your tamer at yew gate?

    How many only tamer raiders have you seen attack a group of 5+ non tamers at a spawn? Win or lose.

    We have almost nightly PvP on LS and there are no tamer templates in those fights. I have bank sat on Atl Luna quite a few hours while shopping. The only tamer I have seen in PvP was a gargoyle who had a Vollum. I have not seen him in a long time. Yes you can tell who just returned from a PvP setting by looking at them. Most are asking for a mount res.
     
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  9. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    The nerfs were mentioned, I explained why they were necessary. the speed issue was one of the imbalances that needed fixed. so what? I also explained that the other nerfs happened because of the instakill ability that some pets with certain templates had. is this a topic that noone should be allowed to mention anymore? it's not like I said pets need further nerfing. I simply explained why the nerfs of the past made sense.

    I never said to exclude "all kill" from PvP. I said that tamers like every other player who wants to PvP need to dedicate all of their skill points to PvP instead of just going with their PvM template (both toon and pet) and saying all kill while doing nothing else.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say when you mention that dexxer example... care to elaborate?

    I never said that a tamer can solo a spawn AND hold off a group of raiders. No PvM template can do that simply because they are ... well you know, PvM templates and not PvP templates. With the current division of PvM and PvP templates in UO it would be rather imbalanced if tamers were the only ones who could do both, wouldn't it?
    There are PvP tamer templates that will be able to help with spawns (much like some of the other PvP templates) but they will never be as fast as pure PvM templates.

    I play on Siege - Yew gate is not a PvP thing over here. What I see and hear is that Yew gate is pretty much 1 vs many (aka ganking) or group vs group, so not sure if Yew is a great example for 1on1. Nevertheless, I said before: PvP tamers with the right template for both tamer and pet will do very well in 1vs1 situations. In group vs group scenarios they still work but there are better options in my opinion. I did see them get kills even after the most recent nerf.

    By only tamer raiders you mean a group of tamers with no other templates? I have never seen that. I have seen tamers in raiding parties though, some successsful, some not so much. Not sure what you're trying to say here.

    I am not debating that tamers are unpopular with PvPers. There are reasons for that: usually PvPers tend to believe that pets in PvP are lame. Most PvPers don't like to sacrifice 240 skill points for taming skills and would rather put them elsewhere. This is mostly due to the fact that playing a tamer requires a bit of a different play style than they are used to playing and people mostly don't like to change. This also has to do with the taming changes being rather recent and people need to really think hard about what to put on a PvP tamer's template and what pet build to use etc. This requires a lot of testing, thinking outside the box etc etc. Many people don't like to do that. They rather read up on long established PvP templates and copy them instead of figuring stuff out themselves. I don't blame them, it's simply easier that way...

    If your PvP experience reall consists of bank sitting and watching people ask for pet resses, then I am sorry but this is not really a good assessment of PvP. As stated above the reason you don't see many PvP tamers is not necessarily because they can't compete but rather because the hurdle to becoming a good PvP tamer is set rather high simply because you have to figure stuff out for yourself.
    Let's stay with your bank sitting observations though:
    I think this really doesn't tell you anything. If someone asks for a mount res it can be because he got dismounted, his mount and himself got killed. This could be because they got ganked, or because they simply aren't as good. Both examples don't really make them great examples for what works in PvP and what doesn't.
    It could also be that they got dismounted, their mount got killed but they not only survived but they even killed their attacker(s). In that case they would be a great example of what works in PvP.
    The reason why you don't see tamers that seem to have been pvping could be because of the reasons I mentioned above. It could also be because they don't need to ask for pet resses because they have vet on a soulstone. And last but not least theoretically it could also be because they dominate PvP and always win.

    What I'm trying to say here is that by bank sitting you will never see what happened. You will see what happened after they came to said bank, that's all.
     
  10. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    It is mentioned a lot. And there are people who wont play still because they think pets are overpowered. They do post on UHall still.

    So having 3 skills, 2 needing to be 110 and the other at least 90 takes 310 points out of 720 dedicated to the pet. Why shouldn't the pet give 3 skills worth of value. You have to dedicate the rest of the points into PvP skills. The other PvPers do not have to build their skills with only 410 points. 120 or whatever going to Magic resist.

    I see returning dexxers that have been away from the game for years wearing their old imbued barbed armor and they can go into Fel and solo PvP. But a tamer has to dedicate his points and has a 310 point disadvantage and can not run around solo. Dexxers can take the easy way.

    So when the pet dies I need to ask them to please stop killing the boss while I go stone Vet on.

    I am not debating they are unpopular either. I am debating that they are not viable in solo or small tamer group settings. If a group shows up. Raiders usually have a group larger than the spawners. Other PvPers templates can take on larger groups and have a change to get away or win.


    Its pretty easy to tell what they were doing when they return in rat form with a dead Swamp dragon. Or they drop a 110 discord scroll on the ground or a primer 1. Or they are still smack talking at the gate. You don't see anyone returning in rat form with a Nightmare following.


    I am just saying that maybe it is time for the set in stone PvP templates change some things because a Pet using template should be viable in Fel. It wont be have the same skills as a PvM pet user or the same suit. I cant use 130 SDI there. Weaving wont do much.

    The developers did the taming revamp and PvPers complained and the developers responded with too heavy nerfs and taming is pretty dead as a PvP template.

    The pet takes more points than a weapon skill. It should act as a weapon.
     
  11. Barney_wins_UO

    Barney_wins_UO Lore Keeper
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    barney has this pet alweady. It good, but in PvP...all the enemy does is run away and gank you. And at yew gate,it get stuck at houses and people invis so u lose target.





     
  12. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    so what? what does this have to do with our discussion here?

    Sorry to tell you this but if you're running vet on a PvP tamer template you're simply doing it wrong. There is a reason I said you need to invest 240 points in taming and lore and the rest in skills that will work in PvP.

    what makes you believe these dexxers have not dedicated all points on their template to PvP?!? Some older templates will still work today, that is true but then again dexxers have not gotten a complete revamp of their class, so of course things haven't changed that drastically over the last years. Their solo PvP abilities will come to a quick end when they run into the next gank squad or the latest flavor of the month PvP template that uses things they're not used to. again, like so many other before you you are making assumptions about what is done in PvP and what works and what doesn't while at the same time you're clearly not PvPing.
    Dexxers can not take the easy way. They also have to adjust templates and suits. It's really pretty similar to returning tamers in PvM: sure you can still do most of the content with your old greater dragon or cu sidhe and without the masteries. But if you really want to be effective you have to adjust to the new possibilities, get your mastery primers, train a pet up to 5 slots etc etc.


    I'm not sure what this refers to. The point I was trying to make was that people forego taming in their PvP templates because they simply don't like to sacrifice 240 points for that. I'm not sure why you think this has something to do with stoning on vet or your pet dieing. Why would your pet die doing a boss in the first place? It's not like you can't heal it with other means than vet. I usually find greater heal spam absolutely sufficient to keep the pet alive (I use gheals on the roof, on champ bosses etc.).


    Why do you think you can't get away on a tamer with the right template?! You're comparing PvM templates to PvP templates again. Of course you'll be at a huge disadvantage there, especially when the raiders have greater numbers.



    In ratform?? If people get morphed into rats they clearly messed up. It is very easy to avoid getting turned into a rat and as a matter of fact should be avoided at all costs. You only get turned into a rat when you are attacking Barracoon by the way, so maybe those weren't the PvPers after all but the PvM chars who did a crappy job at PvM (because they let themselves be turned into rats)?

    With the right set up they are. You're passing off hearsay as facts here. You heard pets are no good in PvP. I on the other hand have seen people use tamers in PvP and some of them actually did fine. It can be done but it absolutely is not everyone's cup of tea and requires a different play style than other PvP classes and especially different to what the random PvM tamer is used to.

    correct, I absolutely agree. PvP requires a suit and template and pet build tailored to just PvP. But that's really the same for every class in UO. Casters, dexxers, hybrids: they all have to tailor their entire template and suits to PvP. Weaving by the way can be absolutely great in PvP (there's more than WoD and GoL to it...) but you're right, it's not the greatest option for a PvP tamer template.

    It does act as a weapon. Even a weapon that will seek it's own target (all guard me), do special moves, cast spells and acts autonomously to a certain degree while you will be doing additional damage/special moves with the rest of your skills. For this to work you have to tailor your own template and that of your pet precisely so they will complement each other. PvP pets usually are about burst damage. Their special moves and spells either line up perfectly and will result in a kill or they fail to line up perfectly and you will have to regroup and start over with a new attack (very similar to dexxers btw or anything else that relies on rng in PvP).
     
  13. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    Ok Im still waiting for pics and or videos of all the pet using PvPers in Fel with dead players under the pets that are not their owners. Since you say it is such a great way to play I wont have to wait long.
     
  14. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    please don't twist my words. I never said it's "such a great way to play", nor did I say it's the absolute best template to run.
    All I said was that people who claim tamers can't PvP at all are wrong. With the right template, the right pet build and the right equipment they absolutely can.

    This discussion has come to the point where all I can do is repeat what I said before and I really don't wish to do that. I am done discussing this with you, celticus or anyone else for that matter who stubbornly claims it's impossible to PvP on a tamer although none of you ever tried it with an actual PvP template and setup. You guys try to do it with your PvM builds and cry foul because they don't work in PvP. I obviously can't help you to understand PvP or how tamers work in PvP because you're not interested in trying and learning something new and rather complain instead.
    There are a lot of similarities in this behavior and the behavior of people claiming they can't do spawns because "evil PKs" (who are most likely criminals in real life too) will slaughter them the minute they set foot in felucca and thus want powerscrolls in trammel. It's a futile discussion.

    The only thing I would like to ask though is that when people ask about tamers and PvP don't tell them it doesn't work and they should give up trying simply because you have not found a way to make it work. Let those who actually know about this answer their questions instead of spreading false information (which is the entire reason why I posted in this thread to begin with).
     
  15. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    What would be the point? If I make my Tamer into something that can PvP I can't PvM effectively so why bother since the reason I have for going to Fel involves PvM. Which in the end is my End Goal to be able to start to finish a spawn effectively and at this rate the only way to do that even is on a Sampire... which also isn't really designed to PvP... but can do so far better than a tamer... who is designed to spawn not to PvP... again fail to see the point of making a tamer better able to PvP since that's something I'd rather NOT do. Seems a waste of a good tamer if you ask me.
     
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  16. North_LS

    North_LS Journeyman

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    exactly. this is how i approach it. i do spawns on my tamer that is purpose-built for doing spawns. If raiders show up, I don't even bother engaging, i hop on the cu and get outta dodge. even if i managed to fight off one or two raiders, chances of finishing the spawn before they come back with reinforcements are low enough that it's not worth the risk, and i'm fine with that. I take my 105s and pinks, which sometimes isnt a bad haul for 20 otherwise wasted minutes, and go do something else. It's rare that this happens though, most of the spawns i start I'm able to complete at a leisurely pace, pick the champ's corpse clean, and clean up every last gold pile without seeing another player. the few i dont finish are abandoned more often to screwing up, dying a couple times to the spawn, and running short on time than they are to raiders. I'd run the same tactics on a sampire, another dedicated pvm template. there's something to be said for using the right tool for a job.

    If i wanted to pvp, i'd update the templates and suits on my old pvp characters and use those. right now im more focused on getting up to speed on the pvm aspect and mastering endgame content there.
     
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  17. DrVenkman

    DrVenkman Adventurer
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    Not worth talking about thats why i deleted my post, but i all in all i think you can be a tamer if you want thats it, later.
     
    #17 DrVenkman, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  18. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    Was a good post.

    When the revamp came out there were a bunch of PvPers that made tamers on test Center to try it out. There were many that saw it was a viable PvP template. They then made tamers on their normal shard. After the nerfs they went back to their old templates.

    If a pet user is viable in Fel for PvP then why did the players who know the mechanics of PvP go back to their old templates?

    I am not talking about spawning. I am talking about going to Fel and killing players with good templates.

    You can say it can be done. What % of PvPers are using a pet to help kill players? I give the PvPers more credit than you do. I think they know the game mechanics better than a PVMer. If a pet is good in Fel. You would see them there and hear it in Chat. I hear all about dismounts and disarms in chat. But none of those were done by a pet.

    Been a year, lets see some pics of dead players slain by a pet.
     
  19. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Lore Keeper

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    I don't understand the pvp concerns about tamers. a mage/tamer with eval can do damage equal to any non pure mage plus have a pet. thrower/archer tamer can wreck most people 1vs1. tamer is one of the most versatile templates there is. the worst templates for pvp are pvm templates lol. is why a lot don't pvp, get wiped.
     
  20. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    That's because at the time pets were so overpowered that literally all you had to do was say all kill and target and the target would drop dead within seconds 99% of the time. Of course some PvPers who had figured this out at the time took advantage of that and went on killing sprees. After the pets were adjusted/nerfed to where you would actually have to do more than say all kill and target a player they went back to their original/other templates because they felt mor familiar with that playstyle.
    It's a normal thing in PvP unfortunately: the devs introduce something new without listening to the voices telling them it's overpowered, many in the PvP community will jump the band wagon and use the hell out of it while it's overpowered and once it is balanced out they go back to their usual templates. Been like that with WoD archers, bushido mages, Bokuto mages (who are having a comeback recently but not as ridiculously OP as before), parry chiv mages, glenda ninja mages (when glenda could still be imbued) etc etc.

    By the way since you give PvPers so much credit: I am a PvPer first and foremost. I only do all the rest of the content because on Siege you have to in order to support your PvP habit.
     
  21. Khaelor

    Khaelor Lore Keeper
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    As with most things, humans go for the path of least resistance. How they can get a leg up on the other person with the least effort expended as possible. PvP tamer has a lot of micro managing with a pet. They have to keep the pet actively engaged and participate in the fight themselves, Max is right, before it was just a case of "All Kill" was enough to get kills. Now the pet is a tool.

    For whatever a vast majority of Trammel tamers don't like to theory-craft and perform actual test, some in fact get insulted by those that do~. They learn a way to do something and that's that. They don't seem to want to actively engage, a lot want their pets to be autonomous entities where they can afk and then clean up the loot afterwards, without having to engage the pet, healing or otherwise. PvPers are more prone to testing and tweaking.

    As for spawns, honestly, in a year of doing spawns I've been raided once, almost a year ago. That's it. And I play on a decently active shard. Tamers have the tools and templates to be able to clean up a spawn pretty fast before you are noticed. Depending on when you play, it can also be about picking the right spawn. Max your pvm template and they might never know you were there.
     
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  22. DrVenkman

    DrVenkman Adventurer
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    I understand what your saying and first off let me just say that i do respect you and the effort youve put in to training pets and the threads youve contributed to taming. I have to say though that i disagree with your views on wether or not a tamer can be a pvper. You seem to place alot of emphasis on wether or not there are other pvpers out there using taming and why do you not see dead players under pets. The point i am making is that you will not get easy kills with a pet, if your a mage tamer or a swords tamer the learning curve is much higher than say archery or dexxer. You would have to have been just a mage before in the past or just a dexxer before you could throw a pet into the mix. Having a pet adds to the amount of macros you would normally use. For example, say your a mage and your confident enough in your casting that you can at least mage duel people and have a good fight win or lose. Well now throw a pet into the mix. You now have a mage that your competent enough to get around and get things done but you also have a pet that can add to your damage. Dying imo is not an indicator on wether or not you can do it, everyone dies at some point. If your consistently dying than either you are consistently being outnumbered, your always fighting someone whos template beats yours or you never really got that at least somewhat decent in pvp to begin which in that case it doesnt matter if your a tamer an archer or a bok mage you still need to practice more.
    I do not give pvpers more credit than you do for a reason, ive been playing on and off for over 10 years and most people who are always in fel and pvping are actually on the same skill level as each other, some just always have numbers or some really easy cheap ass template like archery. Ive spent alot of time being outnumbered and doing spawns back in the day fighting chokepoints doing factions ect. I choose to play a tamer specifically because its a challenge, i dont like going around armor ignore people over and over on a dexxer been there done that.
    To wrap it all up let me just add that i dont think im anymore qualified to speak on pvp than anyone else, ive been owned alot and ill be owned alot but on the flip side ive also owned others and ive been a part of a zerg before even tho i run solo now. I dont really think im good i just think i make it work enough for me, i can still fight outnumbered and give them a challenge, although there are certain people out there that are just above everyone else in terms of pvp, in most cases they are mages and they cast pretty much perfectly, but those people are rare. You cannot compare yourself to them because they are outliers, theyre so talented and fast that its pointless to compare myself to them, also i only see one of them once in a blue moon its not like theyre out pvping all the time.
    Ive gotten way off point and im rambling, being a tamer in pvp is alot like running solo, your somewhat of a rebel. Big guilds and spawn guilds want to kill the opposing players quickly, they dont want tamers as pvpers in theyre guild. I feel like you can do it well enough to protect yourself and even pk people if you want but you just have to know your only doing it because you choose to not because its the best way to kill people.
     
  23. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    Good post again.

    I am for the stand a chance part. And if we could get that without a complete skill and suit overhaul, I would be happy.

    Then the ones who do know the mechanics and what skills and suit to use would be better than the average pet user.

    My main point is, the pet revamp has made it fun for people who have never killed some of the higher mobs. Now they can kill things they could not before.

    3 average tamers can do a spawn fast enough to be able to just play a short time and have fun.

    I think the game would benefit if pet users (Not tamers) were able to move into fel with confidence and ability to hold off a single pk if the pets users outnumber the pls.

    The taming revamp has made a large contribution to the game. It should spread to fel.
     
  24. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    *twitches* can't resist to post.... I really shouldn't because it seems pointless but ...


    again, you're asking for tamers to be the only class that can do both, PvM and PvP equally. This is not how UO works these days! PvM and PvP are two seperate systems these days.

    wrong. they will always be better than the average pet user simply because they "know the mechanics and what skills and suit to use". The changes you propose wouldn't change anything about that.

    nobody is debating that and nobody, not even the evil PvPers want to take this away from you!

    I'm glad that you have come to accept this as a fact.

    This is absolutely the case! Hold off means stay alive themselves and keep the single PK busy so he can't take the spawn from them. If you're under attack by a single PK and can't stay alive with 2 or more tamers, then you need to practice survival techniques and team play. Crosshealing, throwing invises, cures etc. while sicking one or two pets on the PK just to keep him a little busy will go a long way. You can't expect this to work without practice though. Not a single PvPer or PK has had success with what they're doing the first time they tried it against someone at least semi skilled. They have died over and over again until they got to the point where they started to get kills. You can't expect to be able to survive an attack without practice and knowing what to do. Get out there and practice. Find out what works and how to counter the most common templates. Practice staying alive and supporting your friends while under attack and I promise you that you will get better as long as you keep a bit of an open mind and maybe even get some help from someone with more experience at this than you. It's hard to figure out everything for yourself. Just ask people. Some will help you, some won't but you'll end up knowing more than you have before.

    taming works in fel just like it does in trammel.
     
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  25. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    There are no melee toons, archers or mages in PvP? I did not know that. There are many of each in PvM.

    If a pet user could do PvP and PvM equally, where are they???? *crickets* I only see them killing Mobs.

    I always did. I just cant post about it.

    Still waiting on a pic of Pet users successfully fight off a Raid with even numbers.

    (nevermind, if that could be done, they would nerf pets more)
     
  26. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    ok now you're just trolling by taking my words out of context.
    With what I said before it should have been clear that I was referring to all templates in UO, whether they are melee, archers, casters or tamers, being subject to the PvM-PvP split in UO. Spelled out in case you weren't trolling but simply did not understand what I was saying: EVERY class in UO can do PvP or PvM but not at the same time. Both, PvP and PvM, need their respective templates, weapons and suits. What works in PvP won't do too well in PvM and vice versa.

    You're asking that your tamer with it's PvM template, suit and pet build should be able to do both PvM and PvP. If that were implemented, then tamers would be the only class to be able to do that without changing template, suit and pet build. That would by definition be unbalanced.

    Good bye now.
     
  27. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    Why would I use weaving and 130 SDI if I wanted to PvP?
    I would have to change as much as any other template. And choose a weapon that fits (pet).
     
  28. UOLAPlayer

    UOLAPlayer Visitor
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    Why? I just read through the thread and what are the templates that you've tried, or theories that you have on what a good template, pet, or gear would be?

    With 5 slot ridable pets, it seems like there's going to be a shift in what tamers can do, but it might be a little faster to experiment than to wait 2 or 3 years for people to mainstream some cookie cutter approach, with cookie cutter counters.

    Also, just to be clear, the PVP is a primary or secondary goal?

    If the primary goal is to do champ spawns and collect scrolls, then the advice already mentioned in the thread about just bailing out if there is a raid seems like the most effective approach.

    If the primary goal is to PVP, then you are looking at raiding or defending? How much more time are you willing to add to how long it takes to do a spawn, in order to be more effective in PVP?

    People here can almost certainly help with ideas.
     
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  29. DrVenkman

    DrVenkman Adventurer
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    Heres a pic from today of a dead player under my mare, i dont know why you keep asking but there you go, im not gonna show the persons name because im not one to make others look bad.
     

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  30. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    Thanks. First one I've seen in a year. Don' let the devs see it pls.
     
  31. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    are you going to edit your posts here and on the official forums now where you complained that tamers can't PvP?
     
  32. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    Because one player killed one.
    Nope.

    It took a year to see that. I'll edit them to say once a year a pet can beat a player if you want.

    I gave a list up above. When a group of pet users can hold off raiders regularly I'll change it.

    When you show me a group of pet users raiding a group of melee ers spawn regularly I'll change it.

    Notice I don' use tamer. A pet user may have a chance.

    This is the response that would be in on LS in chat:

    Reked u wif my horse Bra

    I was laughing so hard when I saw you attack I had to walk away from the keyboard. Nice gank
     
    #32 Pawain, May 22, 2018 at 3:46 PM
    Last edited: May 22, 2018 at 3:54 PM
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  33. DrVenkman

    DrVenkman Adventurer
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    Hows it not a tamer? My template is a taming template only instead of spellweaving i use resist. I do lady M's, spawns, doom on this template also all i do usually is tame pets and train them just to try new things. Im just curious why you think im a pet user and not a tamer.
    P.S. Im all for pets getting buffed if thats what your trying to get at, that they need to be un nerfed in pvp. What im showing you though is that you can go against the grain and still do what you want. I pvp on my tamer because i loved my tamer so much i wanted to make it work so i did. But trust me i know its not easy people can just run away before dying, thats the biggest prob. Archers have running shot and bok mages bokutos ect. ect.
     
    #33 DrVenkman, May 22, 2018 at 6:44 PM
    Last edited: May 22, 2018 at 6:50 PM
  34. celticus

    celticus Lore Keeper

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    LOL. That still does not prove anything Pawain..The corpse being there does not mean anything really..for PVP or otherwise. It could be a newby, a second account or who knows what..
     
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  35. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    I would die in three hits if I tried that. An archer killed me before my invis spell went off.

    Even Blackoak says you need to use a different template. The guilds on LS would laugh if I went to where they were fighting.
     
  36. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Poobah
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    I believe the good Dr. We can presume the Tamer forum has players with honest stories.
     
  37. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Certifiable
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    every template with 120 taming/lore is a tamer template. the ones I have in mind all have that simply because you can't control 5 slot pets reliably without it.

    Funny how I somehow knew though, that you would not accept proof to be proof but come up with some personal definition of what is a tamer and what isn't. And even if 100 screenshots like that would be presented to you you would still not accept them as proof, same as celticus.