Things that should be stealable on Siege and Fel Facets:

[Kat SP]

BOD's!!
Gift Items [Christmas, Valentine's, etc]
Quest Items
SIGILS for cryin' out loud! Why can we not steal these from players? That is utter nonsense.
Anything blessed that is NOT in the first level of your backpack

Thieves need a little love here. If things have to be "safe" in Trammel, then so be it, but these things and possibly others should be stealable on any shard or facet that has the Fel ruleset.

What would you add to the list?

 

[DVDA]

i havent used my thief in like 4 years....

Use to be fun stealing ship keys, a bag full of checks etc

Now people insure everything

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I disagree.

Losing things through your own error, negligence or stupidity is acceptable and should remain.

Someone stealthing up to you and taking something from you is BS. There was almost no possibility of regaining your items back when thieves were actually viable. It's even worse today. The hiding and instant stealth ability combined with ninjitsu, smoke bombs and animal form make it even easier to getaway.

There's a reason thieves were nerfed in the first place.

No thanks.

 

[Cogniac]

In direct reply to the thread title: everything.

 

[Kat SP]

That's cool with me! Heh.. It'd be fun to be able to steal ethies!

 

[Meldurh]

<blockquote><hr>

i havent used my thief in like 4 years....

Use to be fun stealing ship keys, a bag full of checks etc

Now people insure everything

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah,I am sure the people stolen from considered it fun too.

 

[Guest]

Echo the everything request...

First thing that comes to mind... pet summoning balls

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

I say we should be able to steal peoples pets.

 

[Guest]

do a user name search for 'Ru Atl', you'll need to send it a bit more than 1 week though. When you've found it, check out his siggie

 

[Guest]

I remember you used to be able to remove the pet from the summoning ball.

Also,

I want to steal BOAT KEYS again! Make them uninsurable!

 

[Guest]

Teehee, well spotted Petra

Oh and Chaos, your welcome to try stealing my pets, but I'm not taking responsibility if they don't like their new owner *wink* I also keep my balls in the bank. That just sounds so wrong....

Wenchy

 

[Kat SP]

<blockquote><hr>

I say we should be able to steal peoples pets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree! Of course, there is another place where this is possible and pet summoning balls are rare, only come with 3 charges and translocation powder is not available in game. Once the charges are gone, it cannot be re-charged, so using a pet ball is only an option if you have one and its a dire emergency! Hijacking pets is very common, especially if they have good stats and are well trained. I would love to see that in Fel rulesets.

 

[Guest]

I'm fine for most things being stealable, but by the same token, the victim needs to have a reasonable chance to regain what was stolen from the thief. None of this, item is blessed for the thief, and killing them right after the theft doesn't drop the item to their corpse nonsense.

The whole thieving system is messed up, and half baked, and the existing guard system just makes it more messed up. To my way of thinking, thieves should have a skill based chance of nabbing something and going undetected by the victim, just like real world pickpockets, and victims should have a good chance of getting back their stuff if they catch the thief and beat him/her to a colorful pulp.

-Skylark

 

[imported_Traveller]

<blockquote><hr>

I'm fine for most things being stealable, but by the same token, the victim needs to have a reasonable chance to regain what was stolen from the thief. None of this, item is blessed for the thief, and killing them right after the theft doesn't drop the item to their corpse nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a long-time thief, I do perfectly agree. Another relevant point raised some time ago, was that a thief when dies loses nothing (at least a death robe thief), so they have no trouble in pestering others dying a lot until they succesfully steal. Solution proposed to this was a minimal "compulsory" insurance connected to the thieves guild fees, so that a thief when dying always loses some insurance. This basically would get rid of the naked thieves, and wouldn't affect any other template.

<blockquote><hr>

The whole thieving system is messed up, and half baked, and the existing guard system just makes it more messed up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, full agreement there. But it is so messed up because since AoS the dev team neglected it completely, to the point that the few bugs connected to it were turned into "features" to fake some kind of bone thrown to them...



[/ QUOTE ]To my way of thinking, thieves should have a skill based chance of nabbing something and going undetected by the victim, just like real world pickpockets, and victims should have a good chance of getting back their stuff if they catch the thief and beat him/her to a colorful pulp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmmmhhh... that's pretty much what is happenening now, so probably I don't understand what you mean. What do you mean exactly?

 

[Guest]

Snow
Roses
Mondains Anniversary Coins

boxes/pouches/backpacks

bags of sending

watches

essentially everything should be stealable that isn't CBD'd, blessed (runebooks/spellbooks), or covered by the siege bless.

 

[kennykilleduo]

<blockquote><hr>

I disagree.

Losing things through your own error, negligence or stupidity is acceptable and should remain.

Someone stealthing up to you and taking something from you is BS. <font color="red"> There was almost no possibility of regaining your items back when thieves were actually viable. It's even worse today. </font> The hiding and instant stealth ability combined with ninjitsu, smoke bombs and animal form make it even easier to getaway.

There's a reason thieves were nerfed in the first place.

No thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quote red area: , Are you kidding me , In today's standards you would have so much better of a chance to get item back..

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

To my way of thinking, thieves should have a skill based chance of nabbing something and going undetected by the victim, just like real world pickpockets, and victims should have a good chance of getting back their stuff if they catch the thief and beat him/her to a colorful pulp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmmmhhh... that's pretty much what is happenening now, so probably I don't understand what you mean. What do you mean exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't really like that. Right now, while a thief's skill is checked of course on their steal attempt, the other factors are really artificial. NPC and other players often "see" what is going on, even if the victim doesn't, and from what I recall of the times I have been stolen from, a stealthed thief who was next to me, pops out suddenly (auto revealed) when they successfully steal something.

The whole stealth thing of being "invisible" is really dumb to me. If someone manages to brush pass me in a shopping setting and lifts my wallet or manages to cut my purse strap and run off with it, and if I chase them down and stop them (or someone else does) that would be a "natural" thieving process. But something "invisible" sidling up to me, grabbing something, and then "popping out" suddenly after the deed is done, and perhaps some NPC calls out for guards, and the thief is insta whacked, at which point the item stolen "magically" is unavailable to reclaim, that is just dumb.

Perhaps I am still not really explaining it well, but the whole concept of thieving, and hide/stealth in general as a side issue, is just really goofy in its implementation in the game.

-Skylark

P.S. I have never played a thief so I am just going on what I have observed on the "receiving" end.

 

[Sir Ha-ward]

Im still wanting to see ship pvp

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

Everything should be stealable on Siege other than containers, and skill related books.

 

[Chango Pelon]

<blockquote><hr>

Im still wanting to see ship pvp

[/ QUOTE ]

I hold events doing just that and you wouldn't believe how terrible non sailors are.

Signed,
Self Proclaimed Champ of Ship PvP

 

[Guest]

Chango, you need to come to Siege and join the pirates guild!

 

[imported_Traveller]

<blockquote><hr>

It isn't really like that. Right now, while a thief's skill is checked of course on their steal attempt, the other factors are really artificial. NPC and other players often "see" what is going on, even if the victim doesn't, and from what I recall of the times I have been stolen from, a stealthed thief who was next to me, pops out suddenly (auto revealed) when they successfully steal something.

The whole stealth thing of being "invisible" is really dumb to me. If someone manages to brush pass me in a shopping setting and lifts my wallet or manages to cut my purse strap and run off with it, and if I chase them down and stop them (or someone else does) that would be a "natural" thieving process. But something "invisible" sidling up to me, grabbing something, and then "popping out" suddenly after the deed is done, and perhaps some NPC calls out for guards, and the thief is insta whacked, at which point the item stolen "magically" is unavailable to reclaim, that is just dumb.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are overlooking another equally "natural" thieving process. The one in which somebody _you didn't notice_ lifts your wallet. That's what stealth tries to simulate, in a somewhat gross and cumbersome way. The fact that he is "invisible" actually means that your character has not realized his presence. Unfortunately the implementation of stealth does not differentiate amongst the different players, moving into shadows, crawling in the grass, etc, so it's either being noticed by everybody or nobody.

Also, the "pop out" does not happen AFTER the deed is done, but BEFORE. If you use the steal skill (before targeting anything) you pop out of hiding and cannot go back before 10 secs, and although I agree that it is really an odd game mechanic, it is useful to allow everybody a chance to catch the thief. I agree that it is awkward, but I cannot even start to imagine the complaints if it were not there...

As far as the NPCs calling guards... what's wrong with that? I mean, somebody lifted my wallet, I didn't notice it, but another guy saw that and call out. What's wrong with that? Well, except when some NPC thief guildmaster calls for guards...

As far as not being able to reclaim the stolen good, I thought that if the thief is guardwhacked the stolen item goes back to the pack, regardless of the two-minutes bless bug. The odd thing is when you kill the thief and you cannot reclaim your goods.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

No, I'm not kidding.

The ability to steal just about anything and everything was taken out of the game for a reason. It generated massive customer service complaints.

The skill was way overpowered and abused. We all know that thieving wasn't just nerfed, it was pretty much killed on all shards except Siege &amp; Mugen.

Even on production shards, in Felucca, you can still steal items which a player has forgot to insure. Or you can play on Siege where just about all the old skool items which were stealable can still be stolen.

There's no reason why gifts, BODs, ships or the other items on the list need to be stealable. I don't know about Sigils as I'm not in factions. Seems kinda dumb if you cannot steal it back from the guy that stole it in the first place.

 

[imported_dukarlo]

Almost everything should be stealable on Siege and Fel facets. Unfortunately safe zones in Trammel werent enough. Fel was Trammelized to the point of ridiculousness.

 

[imported_dexdash]

<blockquote><hr>

I disagree.

Losing things through your own error, negligence or stupidity is acceptable and should remain.

Someone stealthing up to you and taking something from you is BS. There was almost no possibility of regaining your items back when thieves were actually viable. It's even worse today. The hiding and instant stealth ability combined with ninjitsu, smoke bombs and animal form make it even easier to getaway.

There's a reason thieves were nerfed in the first place.

No thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

STAY IN TRAMM AND READ THE TITLE OF THE POST!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ryix (europa)]

Everything.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I disagree.

Losing things through your own error, negligence or stupidity is acceptable and should remain.

Someone stealthing up to you and taking something from you is BS. There was almost no possibility of regaining your items back when thieves were actually viable. It's even worse today. The hiding and instant stealth ability combined with ninjitsu, smoke bombs and animal form make it even easier to getaway.

There's a reason thieves were nerfed in the first place.

No thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

STAY IN TRAMM AND READ THE TITLE OF THE POST!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

LEARN SOME MANNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kat SP]

Wel, Dex is right! I am not proposing that stealing should take place in Trammel. As long as your items are safe there, whats the problem? There should be such risks in Felucca.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I'm not talking about Trammel either. I spend plenty of time in Felucca and play Siege as well.

There's plenty to steal on Siege. Other than the Sigil I don't see why anything on your list should be changed.

UO's subscription base is small enough. Adding the griefinist game mechanic back into the game isn't a viable option for UO. I'm confident the developers know this. If they don't then the Customer service managers sure as heck do.

 

[Gunter D'Brute]

I never had a thief character and I miss thieving!!

i remeber i had a silver vanq battle axe, was spamming selling for 125K!!
That was ALOT in the old days.... I was at fell vesper bank. Next thing I knew it was stolen from me and banked. I tried to ask the guy for it back but he was nice enough and said no.

Lesson learned!!!!!

Must have been a fun grab for him. I miss the danger of people stealing my regs and stuff

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Reagents are still stealable. When and if a mage actually is using them that is.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

There are plenty of risks in Felucca.

 

[imported_GalenKnighthawke]

<blockquote><hr>

i havent used my thief in like 4 years....

Use to be fun stealing ship keys, a bag full of checks etc

Now people insure everything

[/ QUOTE ]

Fun for you and the blue friends you used to get to stand guard while you dry looted someone's house while all they could do was look on.

*shrugs*

Thieving was legalized griefing, and the behavior of thieves and PKs necessitated Trammel.

If you restore thieving to how it was, you guarantee a nearly empty Felucca save for the big champ spawn guilds that can pool resources.

Same as if you do away with insurance or do any of the hair-brained things people propose every other day on U-Hall.

Fel's close enough to empty as it is. Would be empty if it weren't for power scrolls, double fame, double resources, and other incentives.

-Galen's player

 

[Mr Artifact]

i disagree only uninsured and unblessed items should be stealable in fel and Siege only i for one am very happy that there is insurance in this game so in my opinion the rules should stay as they are sorry but thats the how i feel.

 

[imported_dexdash]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

i havent used my thief in like 4 years....

Use to be fun stealing ship keys, a bag full of checks etc

Now people insure everything

[/ QUOTE ]

Fun for you and the blue friends you used to get to stand guard while you dry looted someone's house while all they could do was look on.

*shrugs*

Thieving was legalized griefing, and the behavior of thieves and PKs necessitated Trammel.

If you restore thieving to how it was, you guarantee a nearly empty Felucca save for the big champ spawn guilds that can pool resources.

Same as if you do away with insurance or do any of the hair-brained things people propose every other day on U-Hall.

Fel's close enough to empty as it is. Would be empty if it weren't for power scrolls, double fame, double resources, and other incentives.

-Galen's player

[/ QUOTE ]


when theifs were around was when uo made the mose money...... hmmm
by the way fel is empty on most shards

 

[Fluffi]

*snips*

<blockquote><hr>


Thieving was legalized griefing, and the behavior of thieves and PKs necessitated Trammel.

If you restore thieving to how it was, you guarantee a nearly empty Felucca save for the big champ spawn guilds that can pool resources.


[/ QUOTE ]


I have never seen a post by a creditable PvP thief suggesting that PvP stealing be returned to Trammel, so if you dont want to be "griefed", stay in the place with the leafy trees.

In the Felucca ruleset, I'd like to see a lot more items uninsurable; and in the case of insured items, I want to be be able to "theoretically steal" them, so I earn the insurance money, and the insured item returns to the marks' bankbox for a set period of time.
This cannot be considered griefing, as everyone who enters a red gate knows what to expect, and can avoid the situation by not entering the gate.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

This stay in Trammel response is just idiocy. It's ridiculous. There's plenty of risk factor and many many ways to interact with other players in Felucca. There's PKs, anti-PKs, champ spawns, double resources and fame to name just a few.

Felucca has both it's advantage and disadvantages. Regardless, no other player should be able to sneak up to you, snoop your pack and steal your hard earned things from you, or any of the other things that are currently not able to be stolen.

You want to attack and kill me and take my reagents, bandies, pots, cursed artifacts, power scrolls, etc.. go for it. It's all replaceable. You don't get my blessed or insured items when you kill me, you have no reason to be able to just swipe them from me and vanish into thin air either. I will go and do go to Felucca whenever the heck I want. I'll kill and be killed but I will not have my equipment, armor, weapons or any other items stolen from me.

This poor horse has been beaten to death over and over since AoS. It's not gonna be changed back.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>


Thieving was legalized griefing, and the behavior of thieves and PKs necessitated Trammel.

If you restore thieving to how it was, you guarantee a nearly empty Felucca save for the big champ spawn guilds that can pool resources.

-Galen's player

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI, Trammel is pretty damn empty too and if it wasn't for character xfers... all of UO would be rather than every other shard other than the top 3 most popular ones.

And as for your "legalized griefing" comment... you don't even know what the hell griefing is... please don't throw the word around like you know what it means.

Its nobody's fault but yours that you cant handle the fact that another player can fill the role, an NPC in your otherwise perfect world would be filling anyway.

We have brigands but, players cannot play them.

We have theives but, players cannot play them.

We have orcs but, players cannot play them.

We have pirates but, players cannot play them.

We have savages but, players cannot play them.

We have knights of virtue but, players cannot play them.

We have all sorts of characters that people cannot play the role of.

All because you can't handle the fact that something more intelligent than a rock is interacting with you.

I can't wait until gaming makes a revolution in Artificial Intelligence so all of you who can't hack it in a higher level of game play simply don't inhabit it.... I soooo can't wait.

 

[Guest]

Hmmm.....

So you want to steal from a crafter? High hopes for said thief.

Holiday items? Really? You could just log in a char or pay the 5k for a box of them. I guess this one really doesn't matter because anyone that has them in their pack while in fel(aka pvp arena) won't necessary care if they are lost anyway.

Quest items. Eh. I guess so if they ever do put something in felucca(like a quest) everyone and their brother can hang out at the turn in guy and steal potential questers blind. This help felucca how? Oh...it just helps the thieves..that's right.

Sigils. Can't see any reason why you should be allowed to do this.

I like the idea of boat keys being uninsurable though.

Thieves need a way to steal insurance money or they need some other ability that benefits them. Stealing stuff is never going to be grandouise because of insurance. Stealing ethies is just rediculous.

Anyone who didn't play a thief right before UOR knows why thieves were smacked back to the stone age with the nerf stick and it was for good reason. They had too much power and no consequences for their actions and too many ways around the rules. A good thief could land nearly any mark and disarm thieves were rampant. Couldn't go to the bank with a guard macro always on the ready or a hide macro for when ya got there. Those days are long long gone thankfully.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

Anyone who didn't play a thief right before UOR knows why thieves were smacked back to the stone age with the nerf stick and it was for good reason. They had too much power and no consequences for their actions and too many ways around the rules. A good thief could land nearly any mark and disarm thieves were rampant. Couldn't go to the bank with a guard macro always on the ready or a hide macro for when ya got there. Those days are long long gone thankfully.

[/ QUOTE ]

...

This is the dumbest excuse for why things happened the way they did.

So you're saying that because theives were overpowered... no one could come up with a better approach to the problem other than making that class of character... utterly useless?

This is the same stupid reason Trammel was implemented the way it was... if people would just think things through and brainstorm GOOD ideas on how to address things properly, maybe so many things in this game wouldn't be lost to poor decision making.


BOOOOOO to your line of thinking...

Just one possible solution off the top of my head would have been...

I think if a thief stole an item, the item should have become "immobile" in their backpack (unusable, unmovable, un-anything) for a period of 10 minutes... if that thief died while the item was under this "effect" the item would automatically be returned to the owner. Also, if a thief had an item in their pack under this "effect" then they could not steal another item for the entire duration of this "effect" or until the thief died and the item was returned.

But... w/e, I guess it's too much to ask for a bit of creative thinking... just like Trammel, rather than creatively solving the problem let's just remove the scenario completely from the game... taking the bad AND the good... with it.


BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Guest]

Can you even make a post that is not in the form of an attack? Do you have to pvp even on the boards. I love the way you attempt to assert your intellectual dominance in the words you choose though. It's make the assumption so much easier on the part of those that see them for what they are.

<blockquote><hr>

So you're saying that because theives were overpowered... no one could come up with a better approach to the problem other than making that class of character... utterly useless?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. I'm not sure how you assumed that I came up with any reason why they couldn't have been handled better. They could have. They weren't. They tried miserably but they failed to curtail thieves being the bane of everyone's banking existance. Had they made the banks safe from thieves I doubt we would have the same feelings about thieves today. Care to bark back about that point? No doubt you shall.

Your idea is a sure fire pvp encounter so I completely understand why you would think it a good alternative. You see, to you, the idea of instigating a fight isn't even a deterrent as a possible solution. Again, you don't understand the side of the fence that you are arguing against and you assume those that don't agree with you don't understand the one you stand on. It's almost amusing the high horse you ride upon. You head is so far in the clouds it makes me wonder how it could be in two places at once. You get that one or do I need to draw you a map?

Trammel was also a poorly made decision. A very poor one. Noone here arguing that. You decided to put words in people's mouth. My guess is because there is no room in your's because of all the feet.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

Can you even make a post that is not in the form of an attack? Do you have to pvp even on the boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your the one who said that people should understand why thieves were hit with the nerf stick and it was for good reason.... there's nothing about what they did to thieves that was for good reason or makes me understand why they did it.

It's only an attack if you think I'm attacking you.... I'm not. I was stating that your line of thinking (because you did say it, see bold part above) is what led us to these crappy changes that you say you agree were poorly implemented.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think getting guard wacked should also cause the item to go back to the original owner automatically... and I think every thief should get away with stealing in town scott free (but be flagged as a criminal every time) and guards can be called on them...

It would also be cool if thieves who joined the thieves guild to steal from blue players were "perma" criminal in the sense that they'd be freely attackable even when hued blue...

I also am not a fan of the "super mule" aka the completely defenseless crafter who can only make things but do nothing else in game. Well if your defenseless... then out in the wilderness you should represent what you really are.... otherwise, HAVE AT THEE!!!

=[

 

[Guest]

(****is sad that Black Rain is not a fan of my Miranda***) *crys*

I shall yet duel thee with my tinker tools and DIE with dignity ! haha

course I did get wtfpwt by Miss Tea on Siege sooo that don't say much for me in pvp !

But I can remember back in the day.. I killed thief types, yesssssss first one I offed pilfered me apples for me llama in Delucia *ches. no tram then* chased his butt all the way as he tried to run out that n. gate by healer hut...but I made him a corpse before he got that far. Offed the next thief out there in the lost lands ..tried to pilfer my sword gm marked by my guildmaster's alt...I was very fond of that mark..............so I killed that thief too &amp; got me sword back !! I only killed 4 cuz then stealthing and all that come to be and well then trammel came..etc.

I did wonder why the snuggie stuffies could not be stolen on Siege *if in container* forgot they can no longer lift the container cuz I felt if they can steal the box they then would *get* the blesseed items cuz someone was dumb enough to keep blessed items in unblessed box. Oh well.

Bout the only thing I would NOT like to see stealable is vet reward ethereals. Customers stay in UO long time but even that three year vet is very joyous to get that first etheral, and well on up year by year, like it is our right of passing etheral ride. . . I really would not want to see folks loose those if they can not afford to buy one or buy back..they end up screwed till next years vet reward gump. To most of us a whole year *for next gump* to get a free replacement is too long to wait.

Unless those ethereals could be *one item bless* but they ok as is *to me* ie blessed not stealable ..easy for everyone to say yeh let us steal em..but some of them be the first to cry if 'they' ...they loose their polar bear or etheral unicorn or horses.

Those'd be about the only things I would not want changed, the ethereals leave em as is..which may sound wrong ...but folks wait too long to get that first one and every succeeding one, that be the only things, I would say leave alone as is..blessed vet reward ethereals.

 

[Guest]

quest items. anything that isnt siege blessed, a spell book, or a rune book, or a bod book, or a cbded article of clothing.

I THINK that covers it.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

and it was for good reason....

[/ QUOTE ]
My statement made, yes. I uphold the reasoning for this in very simple terms:
Death robe thieves, aka leg humpers. If not for these types of players I would have much more respect for thieves but for every thief that actually played his role there were 50 leg humpers with nothing to lose trying to get lucky or find a newb as a target. Simple as that. These players are what ruined the thief profession and not the people who actually played a thief.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

and it was for good reason....

[/ QUOTE ]
My statement made, yes. I uphold the reasoning for this in very simple terms:
Death robe thieves, aka leg humpers. If not for these types of players I would have much more respect for thieves but for every thief that actually played his role there were 50 leg humpers with nothing to lose trying to get lucky or find a newb as a target. Simple as that. These players are what ruined the thief profession and not the people who actually played a thief.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree with you that they were a problem.

What I disagree with you is that what they did to thieves was for no good reason.

*nods*