Thanks Blu & James

[soulstoner]

Great outline of questions to invoke a response Blu !!!

http://vboards.stratics.com/ask-devs/231323-please-give-us-some-help-fishmonger-quest.html


There's still hope -- sorry there was no xx reference for the crustaceans that seem off but hey - Thanks James for taking time to go through it all .

 

[popps]

Great outline of questions to invoke a response Blu !!!

http://vboards.stratics.com/ask-devs/231323-please-give-us-some-help-fishmonger-quest.html


There's still hope -- sorry there was no xx reference for the crustaceans that seem off but hey - Thanks James for taking time to go through it all .

Sorry, but I did not see anything helpfull in those answers.

They are all things which were already known, at leats to me, and do not answer the questions we STILL have unresolved....

All in all, I did not find that reply helpfull to me at all.........

I still have lots of other questions related to fishing orders, loyalty etc. which need an answer.

 

[Miri of Sonoma]

They helped me out a bit. I didnt know some of these things. I do have more questions but I am happy that James took the time to answer!!! WOOT! *smiles*

Gives me hope!

 

[Barry Gibb]

That is good to know.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Kiminality]

Sorry, but I did not see anything helpfull in those answers.

They are all things which were already known, at leats to me, and do not answer the questions we STILL have unresolved....

All in all, I did not find that reply helpfull to me at all.........

I still have lots of other questions related to fishing orders, loyalty etc. which need an answer.

They explained why monster fishing orders don't always get monster rewards.
The amount you were going on (and on and on and on) about that, one would be forgiven for assuming you were either unknowing, or in denial about the answer. There it is, straight from the horse's mouth.
Now you know it's part of the original design, and intended.

 

[R Traveler]

Ok, what are "4 order sizes which map to 4 categories of prizes"?
My guess is
0-?? points
??-49 points
50-99 points
100+ points

 

[Beastmaster]

This part is very awkwardly worded and thus not clear:

How does the monger decide which quest to give us?
The fish monger chooses randomly between a list of fish based on your fishing skill. The higher your skill, the bigger the list.
For each fish that you have completed an order for, you get a chance to get an order for 2 fish.
For each fish that you have completed an order for twice, you get a chance to get an order for 3 fish.
For each fish that you have completed an order for three times, you get a chance to get an order for 4 fish.
This progresses until you are getting orders for 6 fish.
The number of different fish in the order is always random, the only thing that changes is the odds.

If taken literally as written I get this from it:

First the unknown is "the chance". For simplicity let's say "the chance" always equates to 1%. There are 54 fish types. Let's assume you have turned in every type at least 5 times each. You should have a 54% chance for a 6 line order every time you get an order.

We all know that ain't happening. Therefore one or more of 3 things are going on here.

1. The explanation (or my interpretation of it) is inaccurate.
2. "The chance" is less than 1% per fish type.
3. "The chance" varies per level.

How do the rest of you read that explanation?

 

[Beastmaster]

Almost forgot.

Notice how James totally left out crabs and lobsters?

 

[Storm]

waits for it...

 

[Wenchkin]

This part is very awkwardly worded and thus not clear:



If taken literally as written I get this from it:

First the unknown is "the chance". For simplicity let's say "the chance" always equates to 1%. There are 54 fish types. Let's assume you have turned in every type at least 5 times each. You should have a 54% chance for a 6 line order every time you get an order.

We all know that ain't happening. Therefore one or more of 3 things are going on here.

1. The explanation (or my interpretation of it) is inaccurate.
2. "The chance" is less than 1% per fish type.
3. "The chance" varies per level.

How do the rest of you read that explanation?

Ok, I'm reading it to mean that we've got the best chances at 6 line orders if we complete 5 orders for each fish type available at our skill level. We don't know what the maximum chance amounts to in this equation, only how to get ourselves to that point.

And from the rest of the post there is obviously the loyalty point effect on the orders you get too.

I'm posting purely how I interpret that bit of the post though. I'm not making any claim that it matches what other fishers have experienced. TBH I'd need to look at my own spreadsheet to verify if I see that pattern or not But that's how I read it anywho.

Wenchy

 

[popps]

They explained why monster fishing orders don't always get monster rewards.
The amount you were going on (and on and on and on) about that, one would be forgiven for assuming you were either unknowing, or in denial about the answer. There it is, straight from the horse's mouth.
Now you know it's part of the original design, and intended.

Does not mean though that it finds me in agreement with it.

Infact, I disagree with how it was designed.

Better fishing orders should always bring home better rewards, period.

Leaving the RNG to determine it I do not find it as right.

Especially, since the 4 tiers have overlappings as it was mentioned.

This is what brings worse orders give better rewards than better orders, the overlapping of lower tiers with higher tiers.

That's my point of view.

 

[popps]

This part is very awkwardly worded and thus not clear:

How does the monger decide which quest to give us?
The fish monger chooses randomly between a list of fish based on your fishing skill. The higher your skill, the bigger the list.
For each fish that you have completed an order for, you get a chance to get an order for 2 fish.
For each fish that you have completed an order for twice, you get a chance to get an order for 3 fish.
For each fish that you have completed an order for three times, you get a chance to get an order for 4 fish.
This progresses until you are getting orders for 6 fish.
The number of different fish in the order is always random, the only thing that changes is the odds.

If taken literally as written I get this from it:

First the unknown is "the chance". For simplicity let's say "the chance" always equates to 1%. There are 54 fish types. Let's assume you have turned in every type at least 5 times each. You should have a 54% chance for a 6 line order every time you get an order.

We all know that ain't happening. Therefore one or more of 3 things are going on here.

1. The explanation (or my interpretation of it) is inaccurate.
2. "The chance" is less than 1% per fish type.
3. "The chance" varies per level.

How do the rest of you read that explanation?

I think there is a mistake in the wording. It refers to "skill" as the determining factor but I think it should instead be "loyalty level" built up with the fish mongers.

Otherwise it makes no sense to me why we need to build up loyalty and why we loose it when rejecting an order......

Yet, the word used is "skill", not "loyalty".........

 

[Basara]

Some replies to:

Re: Please Give us some help with the Fishmonger quest

Quote:
If so does it matter in which order we hand them in?
It doesn’t matter what order you hand them in.


Quote:
How much do each of these actions help/hurt?
Each time you complete an order with a specific fish, the next time you get an order with that fish the quantity will increase by 5 to a max of 20.
Each time you abandon a quest with a specific fish, the next order you get with that fish will be 5 less quantity.

Actually, it appears that it does matter the order, James, and they don't go 10/15/20, then repeat 20, pattern.
The quests go in a 10/15/20 cycle for each fish type (turn in a 10, get a 15 the next time the fish comes up, turn in a 15 get a 20, turn in a 20, and get a 10) and having multiple quests for a fish can result in multiples of 20-count (making a bad situation worse, if you have had one of those streaks where you aren't catching certain types - especially the crustacean types), or possibly other glitches if you have different BODs with different counts of the same fish. Of course, abandoning quests do act the way you describe.
In a way, this can actually allow persons with an amount of patience to "Game" the system, to force certain fish types to go to 20, in the hope they get a 6-parter with all-20s.

Quote:
How does the monger decide which quest to give us?
The fish monger chooses randomly between a list of fish based on your fishing skill. The higher your skill, the bigger the list.
For each fish that you have completed an order for, you get a chance to get an order for 2 fish.
For each fish that you have completed an order for twice, you get a chance to get an order for 3 fish.
For each fish that you have completed an order for three times, you get a chance to get an order for 4 fish.
This progresses until you are getting orders for 6 fish.
The number of different fish in the order is always random, the only thing that changes is the odds.

Then there's a "feature" you need to look at. It would appear the number of lines is based on the percentage of possible fish types you have done the quest for, not the actual number of types. As such, the number in lines take a dive at the point where the Dungeon Fish are added to the possible quests.

I personally just experienced it from hitting 105 skill.

Something about the additions to the number of possible fish types causes the low-line Quests to become MUCH more common, until you fill a bunch of them.

So, you're cruising along, mostly getting 5 & 6 line quests (occasionally a 4), until you hit 105, and suddenly, you're back to 1 and 2 line quests (rarely 3 or 4), all over again, until you've filled quests for the new fish.

Quote:
How is the reward for finished quest decided?
There are categories based on order size. There is some overlap, but you get different prizes for a small order than you get for a big order.
The size of the order is weighted depending on whether you are catching shallow water fish (x1), deep water fish(x2), or dungeon fish (x3).

Have you looked into the repeatedly reported bug that the Crustaceans (lobsters & crabs) are being counted as (x1) shallow fish for purposes of the bait container rewards, instead of deep fish (x2) as you've reported in the past? I noticed you failed to assign them a value in this reply. Is this being looked at? Does it affect just the bait rewards, or all rewards?

(It appears from the stated weights, that if a bait reward is indicated, the number of uses in the bait is the total weight of the quest divided by 2 - which is why some people treat the weights as 0.5/1/1.5 instead of 1/2/3 - but in that system the crustaceans are showing up as equivalent of shallow water fish)

Quote:
Are they just a useless " you lost the RNG toss prize"?
We realize that the books are dropping more than is appropriate. We want to improve the rarity of books and will be scheduling changes in an upcoming publish - we will let you know more when we have additional details.

One suggestion: as well as making the books more rare, how about having them more rarely be awarded as the special types of book categories from the Axem quests. In other words, the black/First, orange/Limited & white/Collector's edition colors. This would allow the books to be better placed in player-run libraries, where they would match the rest of the material.

 

[Barry Gibb]

One suggestion: as well as making the books more rare, how about having them more rarely be awarded as the special types of book categories from the Axem quests. In other words, the black/First, orange/Limited & white/Collector's edition colors. This would allow the books to be better placed in player-run libraries, where they would match the rest of the material.

Good suggestion. If these books are supposed to be rare, then I think the fishmongers can spring for a more rare binding, not just the plain purple books you can buy from any provisioneer (seeing as they don't pay us for the fish).

The rest of your above post was well structured and presented. I hope it can provoke some additional responses.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Petra Fyde]

I think the easiest answer on those is to change the book type, making them the type that can be handed in at the library.

 

[Minerva Foxglove]

Good to finally get response from the devs.
The books being worthless is very dissapointing. I save my 85 books for a while, hoping it will change.
The points for the crustaceans had been very interesting to know. I have started to refuse orders for 3x20 crustaceans etc, as they are not worth the effort at all. Trapfishing is a pain and most ppl seem to have one cursed type that is in most every order and you always fish up less than half of any other type!

Are you ppl out there doing multiple quests at a time nowdays? I did for a while and my rep got totally wasted. Have they changed someting that I missed to read about , or are they just stating it works without double checking? Or maybe im doing something wrong? I would love to do it again but my trust lvl is too low right now wich isnt normal and would change with some correct answers here and there.

I still like the consept and fish like crazy every day

 

[Storm]

I think the easiest answer on those is to change the book type, making them the type that can be handed in at the library.

Exactly ...Points

 

[Beastmaster]

Are you ppl out there doing multiple quests at a time nowdays? I did for a while and my rep got totally wasted. Have they changed someting that I missed to read about , or are they just stating it works without double checking? Or maybe im doing something wrong? I would love to do it again but my trust lvl is too low right now wich isnt normal and would change with some correct answers here and there.

I still like the consept and fish like crazy every day

Multiple quests are indeed doable now. They made a change so that you don't get penalized for having an unfilled order of a fish that appears on the order you just accepted, "usually". there are some undocumented caveats to that.

 

[Minerva Foxglove]

Awesome! Ill try it out again!

 

[Barry Gibb]

I think the easiest answer on those is to change the book type, making them the type that can be handed in at the library.

Exactly ...Points

I would like for them to adjust the points for the books if they are going to do that. Books are only worth 3 points at the library. I am content right now to sell them for 7gp to my local provisioneer shop.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Kiminality]

This is what brings worse orders give better rewards than better orders, the overlapping of lower tiers with higher tiers.

I see it more as a "glass half full"
See, it's all in how you look at it.
Look at it that the lowest/smallest/worst rewards for a given point value of an order as standard, then, you can see that all levels of order have a chance to award a better reward.
It's only a terrible system for you, because of the way you've chosen to look at it.

As it stands, it's a not-terrible simulation of a barter system, with reputation playing a factor.
When you fulfil an order for a type of fish, you're showing that you're "good for it", so the fishmonger will take a chance in offering you a larger order next time for that type of fish. And as an extension, that then factors in to being given larger orders - if you've consistently come through with orders, then the fishmonger takes a chance offering you bigger orders.
Then, when it comes to rewards, the comparative values of the fish/rewards would be dependant on a number of factors, not to mention the whims of the fishmonger.

As it stands, it doesn't matter that you can't predict the reward with certainty.
You'll still complete it anyway, or lose reputation.
The only real benefit you'll get is that the reward won't fall short of your expectations, for which there is a simple user-side fix - stop forming expectations.

 

[Kiminality]

I would like for them to adjust the points for the books if they are going to do that. Books are only worth 3 points at the library. I am content right now to sell them for 7gp to my local provisioneer shop.

3 points is the equivalent to a donation of 45gp, so it is worth it... Kinda.
Although, they're supposed to be rare books, so they should be worth more than a plain book.

 

[BluDjinn]

I am still in shock !

I got an answer for all the fishing questions I posted.

Not the answers I wanted.
Not all answers I understand.
But answers of a sort.

This gives me hope. Just knowing the folks at UO at least read our post.

Happy fishing all. ( I still need 3 more 110s to bind I guess )
Ugh....Got to go crabbing today I hate it....spend hours gathering 20 blue crabs so I can get another book before they become "rare'... LOL


:gun:

 

[popps]

I would like for them to adjust the points for the books if they are going to do that. Books are only worth 3 points at the library. I am content right now to sell them for 7gp to my local provisioneer shop.

3 points is the equivalent to a donation of 45gp, so it is worth it... Kinda.
Although, they're supposed to be rare books, so they should be worth more than a plain book.

I think that they should be worth a lot more than a plain book because their value should be comparable to the worth (time invested) of the fishing order that produced them and the crabs/lobsters and fish involved.

I have gotten some books off of 5 and even 6-liners with quite a lot of crabs/lobsters too.

I do not know others, but it takes me hours of crabbing to get like 20 crabs or 20 lobsters of some kind...... Not to mention the traps that sink and so the loss of gold involved.
Way, but WAY more than the 45 gp mentioned.

If I need to fill an order which contains several lines of crabs and lobsters and that order gives me a damn book, it has costed me a ton of gold in lost traps AND a lot of time wasted.

Definately, IMHO, fish monger books should be worth a whole lot of points......

 

[popps]

This is what brings worse orders give better rewards than better orders, the overlapping of lower tiers with higher tiers.

I see it more as a "glass half full"
See, it's all in how you look at it.

Perhaps someone may see it half full, but personally, a fishing order that is all 6 lines for dungeon fish, 15/20/20/15/15/20 and ends up giving a damn book as reward to my eyes is not even half empty, it is ALL empty.......

http://vboards.stratics.com/1900634-post6.html

Can you imagine what the odds are up to be given a 6 lines order that has ALL 6 lines for dungeon fish ? Very, etremely, incredibly slim.

http://vboards.stratics.com/1896894-post2.html

In order fot the order to have six requests for dungeon fish, all the selections must be successful. To determine the total probability (Pt) of this occurance is a multiplication of the individual probabilities:
Pt=P1*P2*P3*P4*P5*P6=0.000036

One wins the lottery and gets an incredible fishing order and then gets a damn useless book ??

Give me a break. Someone else may see this as fine and dandy but I cannot see it as anything else but DAMN wrong.

Good orders should ALWAYS give good reward.

If a player is lucky enough to get a very good order (which is rare), then this should NOT be killed by a crappy reward.

That's how I see it.

 

[Kiminality]

Games should be played as they are and the way the developers and the programmers coded them, period.

Irony, thy name is Popps.

 

[popps]

Games should be played as they are and the way the developers and the programmers coded them, period.

Irony, thy name is Popps.

That does not mean that whatever was designed and coded cannot possibly be fine tuned by the Developers (not by third party utilities or anything external to the client) to be more player friendly...........

 

[Kiminality]

That does not mean that whatever was designed and coded cannot possibly be fine tuned by the Developers (not by third party utilities or anything external to the client) to be more player friendly...........

That's exactly the functionality of UI modding - to allow players to have input on the human interaction with the game.
The distinction is minimal, and frankly if you're going to say that it's not Ok for players to be able to create UI mods to "fine tune" the user interface of the client, and yet it's Ok for you to harangue the developers to "fine tune" other aspects of the game, then you're an enormous hypocrite.

 

[popps]

That's exactly the functionality of UI modding - to allow players to have input on the human interaction with the game.
The distinction is minimal, and frankly if you're going to say that it's not Ok for players to be able to create UI mods to "fine tune" the user interface of the client, and yet it's Ok for you to harangue the developers to "fine tune" other aspects of the game, then you're an enormous hypocrite.

While I can possibly accept the idea of players uploading to an official web site enhancements for the game, I think that any and all downloads to improve the game client should occur from an official source only, after they have been approved for their use by the game owners.

And no mod or improvement to the client should be usable unless it has been checked by the game owners as first. That is why they should be first uploaded to the official web site for game owners evaluation and adjustment to make it usable by the client and then, only then become available for download and use by all players.

 

[Stickypaws]

Check out Second Life, check the official viewers list and look at the variation between them. 3rd party clients are cool, give them an 'official' or 'trusted' stamp of approval if they are good, take it away if they are naughty.

 

[SashaSeeks]

Yay, we finally heard from a Dev.... I thinks it has only been since around Dec 1st since the last time we heard from one in regaurds to fishing.

Unfortuneatly it did not tell us much more then what we already knew. I just hope that maybe James Mythic will somehow see to follow up on this thread, with some of the additional questions, comments that were made in this thread, in particular the post by Basara. I think he stated things quite well as to what goes on.

 

[Kiminality]

While I can possibly accept the idea of players uploading to an official web site enhancements for the game, I think that any and all downloads to improve the game client should occur from an official source only, after they have been approved for their use by the game owners.

And no mod or improvement to the client should be usable unless it has been checked by the game owners as first. That is why they should be first uploaded to the official web site for game owners evaluation and adjustment to make it usable by the client and then, only then become available for download and use by all players.

That doesn't really confront the point of contention here...
Besides, a UI mod that has been approved by the devs would be similar to an in-game mechanic that was designed and coded by the devs, so there's a really good chance that even if that did happen, you'd still carpet bomb the forums with your objections to it.