Template Question from Returning Vet

[Kdog7777]

Hey all,

Just got back on game after a long hiatus. Thinking of making a thief. My first questions are - Are thieves usefull anymore? and Do I need Ninjitsu?

I ask about ninjitsu because I would like to have LP on my thief & if i do that I wont have room for ninjitsu, tho some of the stealth moves are certainly appealing.

Anyway, here's the temp im thinking of, please feel free to tell me where I'm being an idiot as I know there are a million changes Im just getting up to speed on.

snoop
steal
hide
stealth
wrestle
magery
lockpicking

i guess i could sub mage for ninjitsu & use scrolls for telekenisis doin chests, but then i have no way to heal at all. Im thinking magery is necessary with this temp, but i also realise its an old school template in a new school game. Will this char be able to nab P-Scrolls & run? thats all im really concerned with doing.

Any suggestions are much appreciated. Im on ches btw if it matters.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Siege? Production Shard?...la

 

[Kdog7777]

im on chessy now. played atl for years back in the early days tho

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

The key for production shard thieves...get good artis and jewels. You can get another 100+ skill points to use if you get the right jewles and artis, which will really allow for some cool templates.

I suppose the lockpicking is there for a little extra cash while sitting around the dungeons, but personally, I'd rather have a skill like ninja, magic reisistance or detect hidden in my template to help me get away with the loot...la

 

[Kdog7777]

yeah i think your right, i can stone LP to another char & pick up resist or ninja. is ninja that good? i think id rather resist poison/para. ive started a ninja & have been unimpressed so far, maybe im missing something. which do you think is more valuable?
what ninja abilities are useful?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

You may be disappointed with poison. With heal pots and a variance of spells players can cast, poison is not what it used to be. Ninja is great for some of it's features. Smoke Bombs are nifty in cases where you can't get out of linesight of a player. There are various attack moves you can use with swords and a decent weapon. There are animal forms, and my favorite...shadow jump. It's basically like being able to teleport while hidden, again, it's great for getting out of the area when chased by large groups of players...la

 

[Kdog7777]

i didnt mean pick up poisoning, i meant pick up resist so i could resist poisoning, tho smokebombs sound interesting & animal forms can be handy. ill prolly just have wrestle i was thinking as you need empty hands to steal, so im not too worried about the attack moves for a ninja, just want to be able to get away.

You think ninja is better pick up than resist? if i get revealed people will be able to paralize me & if i get poisoned myself it will reveal me when hidden. thats why im thinking resist right now, but ninjitsu could be sold on me, i just havent played with it enough yet im sure.

 

[Viper09]

Ok, first thing to note, you can get by with just 100 stealth fine. I would suggest trying to get the Shadow Dancer Leggings, they add +20 stealing and Stealth.
Burglars Bandanna will add +10 stealing which can be blessed with a clothing bless deed.

I suggest keeping stealth at 80 and just use the leggings to get to 100
Stealing at 100 and use the leggings to get to 120.

Resist is fine, I have GM resist on my thief, it helps to resist poison and paralyze (without the use of omen of course). It might help a bit when running away. Of course, you don't need resist.

For Ninja, I would just suggest getting it to a level where you can cast shadow jump and leave it there, unless you want the better selection in animal form. I have mine at around 80 or so since all I needed was llama form and shadow jump.

Now for spellweaving. I did the quest on my thief so I could use some of the spells, and left it at 0. I can cast the healing spell and the armor spell.

One note: since my template doesn't max out some of the skills, I was left over with around 30-40 or so skill points. I decided to add those points into chivalry, and I did this for a number of reasons. It let me cast heal, cure, that one spell that restores stam, and divine journey (recall). Cause as a thief, it's usually best to not die sometimes and being able to cure and heal helps a lot. Also, recalling around is a necessity sometimes. So you might want to take that into consideration.

Now magery is alright, but I honestly don't think you should get magery if you are not going to have meditation or eval to go with it. You can make a decent Mage Thief with dropping hiding, stealth, and lockpicking from that temp you have. dropping those you can add in eval, med, and resist. Worked for me for a while, but then I went with stealth thief.

Don't bother with lockpicking though, nothing to be gained in chests at this moment in game play.

 

[Kdog7777]

you make some good points. ok then based on what you said i think im looking at this:

Hide, stealth, snoop, steal, ninja(80ish) resist, and wrestle, then remaining pts in chiv. My last question is: am I wasting wrestle? I mean, i know you cant steal with stuff in hand, so i thought wrestle would be good, but if its fast enough to steal & then equip weap real fast then i could see a weapon skill being better there over wrestle. someone mentioned swords with ninja, would fencing or arch work as well? Or do swords & ninjitsu have a special relationship?

Thanks for all the tips so far guys, i think this last question will finalize my char.

 

[Viper09]

you make some good points. ok then based on what you said i think im looking at this:

Hide, stealth, snoop, steal, ninja(80ish) resist, and wrestle, then remaining pts in chiv. My last question is: am I wasting wrestle? I mean, i know you cant steal with stuff in hand, so i thought wrestle would be good, but if its fast enough to steal & then equip weap real fast then i could see a weapon skill being better there over wrestle. someone mentioned swords with ninja, would fencing or arch work as well? Or do swords & ninjitsu have a special relationship?

Thanks for all the tips so far guys, i think this last question will finalize my char.

Once disarmed you cannot re-equip a weapon for like 5 seconds or so. One thing I use to do a lot, is if you have that quarry pop up before attacking a blue, you can target the weapon, attacking with disarm selected, hit steal before selecting "ok to attack" and right after you attack you can hit "last target." So before they can do anything, even move, that weapon is stolen That is, of course, if you don't miss, lol. Wrestling also has para strike which can help a lot.

You could put another weapon skill in that spot, but it really doesn't do that much damage at all unless you have tactics. But it really matters what you want to have fun. Now, you could drop resist and get tactics in there and get a weapon skill

Keep in mind, with 80 or so ninja, llama form is not 100% nor is shadow jump. Same with the recall spell in Chiv. But the nice thing about the recall in chivalry is after you cast it, there is a longer period before you recall than the mage spell, which means you can use hide and basically recall while hidden

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I recently worked up wrestling and have loved it. The beauty thing which currently exists but will most likely be fixed in the future...if a mage is casting without a spellbook, but has a shield in the other hand...you can disarm it...if on Siege and it isn't blessed...you can then steal it. I baffled a guy the other day when I stole his shield of invinsibility...muhahahahahaha...la

 

[Kdog7777]

yeah if i train a new weap skill, it will probably be wrestling. This char already has arch on him, which might not be bad as i can hit while running away, but im not sure how practical it will be with such low dmg. Also the point about me getting disarmed leaves me defensless for 5 sec which can mean death rather easily.

I also still keep coming back to magery, i guess i gotta train up ninjitsu & see how i like it, but i always liked that you can teleport & then hide immediately & stealth away, of course shadow jump helps too, but need to already be stealthed.

Also, if i had wrestle and magery, i could at least equip a nice spellbook which might help me item-wise as well. Wouldnt use magery for attacking, just for heals, teleport, recall & invis.

Right now i think im gonna go with ninja over magery just because i havent tried the skill yet, then make my final decision. part of me hates giving up 110 arch/anat/tact, but such is life.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

You are on a production shard so you can use chiv to travel around. On Siege, you can only magically travel with gate travel, so many people have at least 60 magery so they can gate around on their own. The other wonderful part of high wrestling...you can avoid getting hit by dexxers while trying to get away...la

 

[Katlene]

thought this might be a good place rather then start another thread (hope yas dont mind) im in the process of making a new char for theiving.
Is there any benifit from being a human or an elf?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I'm not sure there is a plus to being an elf and a thief. Human give you the JoaT, so you can do a little bit of everything without needing to use those skills points. With a mix of jewels, you can really step up the amount of things you can do as a human...la

 

[Katlene]

Then a human i shall stay, thanksya

 

[Arch Magus]

yeah if i train a new weap skill, it will probably be wrestling. This char already has arch on him, which might not be bad as i can hit while running away, but im not sure how practical it will be with such low dmg. Also the point about me getting disarmed leaves me defensless for 5 sec which can mean death rather easily.

I also still keep coming back to magery, i guess i gotta train up ninjitsu & see how i like it, but i always liked that you can teleport & then hide immediately & stealth away, of course shadow jump helps too, but need to already be stealthed.

Also, if i had wrestle and magery, i could at least equip a nice spellbook which might help me item-wise as well. Wouldnt use magery for attacking, just for heals, teleport, recall & invis.

Right now i think im gonna go with ninja over magery just because i havent tried the skill yet, then make my final decision. part of me hates giving up 110 arch/anat/tact, but such is life.

Go with Ninja AND Magery. Only a little Meditation is needed, no eval needed.
If possible, try to go for a 100lrc suit with 2/6 casting or faster. 3/6 Ninja forms are Fasssstt!
Raise Ninja as high as possible. Wolf form gives an extra 20 hp, that helps a lot when taking EQ damage and the occassional Meteor swarms.

Having enough Magery for 100% cast Invis's will be a lifesaver. Curing poison in a split second, then hiding...The teleport hide is also great.
My thief has 120 Wrestling. Rarely will you use disarm or stun. What's a thief do after he steals? He runs away and hides. Don't stick around to disarm, it only causes problems. Hit animal form, break line of sight, then hide.

120 Fencing is a great option. You don't need Tactics to use the Shadowstrike special. Probably a better choice than wrestling because if you get revealed in spawn, Shadowstrike will save your ass. It's also great right after the steal or if you are attacked by any players. Let 'em come at you, shadowstrike, you're gone =D.

 

[Arch Magus]

thought this might be a good place rather then start another thread (hope yas dont mind) im in the process of making a new char for theiving.
Is there any benifit from being a human or an elf?

Humans can carry more weight I believe. I also love being able to see your hat =D.
As a thief there's almost no reason to use any of the Jackof all trades trait. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

My char was an elf before he became a thief.
A great benefit of elf is having Night Sight all the time.
Another great benefit is increased trap detection. You will be aware of all traps near you at the Champ spawns. Nothing worse than just about getting that scroll steal and you accidentally step on a trap and get revealed.

 

[Zip]

As a thief there's almost no reason to use any of the Jackof all trades trait. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Spellweaving at 0 w/ JoaT lets me use Gift of Renewal. It's like healing for free (skill-point/resource-wise). I sure like arriving back at the mark, my body, the spawn, or wherever all healed up without the need of resources. Plus it continues the healing when you switch to animal form and while stealthed.

I also get Nature's Fury, which is like a watered-down blade spirit. Handy at times.

 

[Arch Magus]

Spellweaving at 0 w/ JoaT lets me use Gift of Renewal. It's like healing for free (skill-point/resource-wise). I sure like arriving back at the mark, my body, the spawn, or wherever all healed up without the need of resources. Plus it continues the healing when you switch to animal form and while stealthed.

I also get Nature's Fury, which is like a watered-down blade spirit. Handy at times.

Decent point.
I also forgot to mention that elves get an extra 20 mana points. A nice bonus.

As for gift of renewal. It doesn't last long. Athief doesn't need to continually heal damage. A suit with HP regen of at least 8'ish will accomplish what healing you may need without the need to cast. The suit I used to have had about 12'ish HP regen and that was a blessing when I took a hit from an EQ or was deadly poisoned. Of course, this all depends on what kind of suit you have available.

And nature's furies, I'm not sure why you would need those actually. I suppose you could work your valor to pop a Despise spawn. Get some action going hehe.

 

[Arch Magus]

love the Sig Zip!
=D

 

[Addicted]

I am going to make a new thief. Production shard:

120 Wrestle
120 Stealing
120 Ninja
120 Stealth
100 hiding
100 snooping
60 Necro

I don't have any of the scrolls, but the char has just been started, I'll get there.

With 60 necro i can use wraith form, that way people won't bump into my and start EQ'ing or something

Does anyone here know, if you can stealth with 100% success using the virtue armor set?

 

[Arch Magus]

I am going to make a new thief. Production shard:

120 Wrestle
120 Stealing
120 Ninja
120 Stealth
100 hiding
100 snooping
60 Necro

I don't have any of the scrolls, but the char has just been started, I'll get there.

With 60 necro i can use wraith form, that way people won't bump into my and start EQ'ing or something

Does anyone here know, if you can stealth with 100% success using the virtue armor set?

Sorry, I can't answer about the virtue armor set. I would personally recommend putting together a cheap HP/Stamina regen resist suit. It's worth the insurance to stay alive.

About wraith form... Not being bumped into is a great bonus.

What will you do after you steal? Can you go Ninja form afterwards while being in wraith?

 

[Addicted]

No idea lol I guess i should try to find out. you can stealth in the virtue suit. I got like 77 stealth and never fail!