tamers having the short end

[Nexus]

Yes, but Sampires require much more effort, many more skills, and waaaaay more items. Tamers can just stand off an heal.

Macing
Bushido
Anatomy
Tactics
Parry or Healing (I swap between them)
Chiv
Necromancy

That's 7 skills only 3 of which are 120 Weapon/(Parry/Healing)/Bushido, Necromancy, Anatomy, and Tactics are 100 and Chiv is 60

That's 720 points! and a whole lot cheaper and easier than most 6x120 toons. Sure I fizzle EoO and Sacred Journey some, but it's still a toon that is much more effective than my Tamer and his Greater Dragon when you do an all around comparison.

 

[Nexus]

And I'll let you in on another secret that the most experienced tamers are well aware of. Pets are situational, just like weapons are. Specific pets and pet combinations are more or less useful depending on the context, and there is almost always a better choice than a greater dragon.

As you said, greater dragons do make a good meat shield. That is about it.

I 120% agree with this......
Here are some good examples for those GD lovers...

Rune Beetle and Kitsune or Nightmare will out preform a Greater Dragon at Dreadhorn 100% of the time, Rune Beetles high Poison resist negates the majority of the DH's damage making them superior as tanks against him, while the Kitsune or Nightmare provide additional damage surpassing a GD's solo damage to him. Sure you have to vet/Cast GH more but it's more effective.....

Reptalons... Train one up take it to Travesty I've seen 200 damage Fire breath attacks against her. I know it was against Trav because there were no mirror images up at the time. Oh and they eat Blood Ele's like elephants eat peanuts.

Frenzied Ostards... Train a pack and mow down Wild Cu Sidhe impress your friends, they can drop one in about 2 - 3 seconds. If you can peace it, none of them will die quite often, usually the Cu gets a chomp in on maybe 1-2 of your ozzies.

Ferrets... Buddy of mine made the mistake of attacking mine on his faction toon... Twice... Sucked Beneficial acts can't be preformed....... Though he usually gets to play when I'm farming Drakes and Wyverns for hides....

I've finished off all his skills and stats since that pic...

Friend of mine used a Pack Horse during the Dark Wisp event at the Lyceum...Kill the Wisp toss the chest on the packie...

It's not just about what pets you use it's about how you use them.

 

[MalagAste]

Personally I don't have any problem being a tamer and having a Greater...

I have one tamer that's a gargoyle... it's ok... Just have to remember you can't jump on the fire beetle and run it out of there with it... you are pretty stuck there.

 

[Aibal]

IBTL.

 

[Harlequin]

This is an Awesome Idea!!!!! They really should only be 2 slot pets, cause tamers should be able to have 2 for the really tough spawn/peerless and still be able to ride. And there should be barding availbe for all pets. And magic collars. I mean, if I can take a ring for a human hand, and convert it to a gargoyle ring, then I should also be able to make a collar for my GD out of it as well.

Let's see what else.

Harbingers. We should be able to tame them. And the dread mare. I mean, its really just a unicorn in a roid rage. And Navery. But Navery should be a 3 slot pet.......

No! I insist that Navery should be a 1 slot pet with arachnid pack instinct and have barding and be ridable. Fits with my being a drow and all.

With its special attacks intact of course.

Oh and lethal poison, resist corruption like rune beetles, healing like cus, firebreath like GDs.

That should do it. Did I miss anything?

Joking of course, but I'd love to see an event where GMs and devs could use this against players.



To OP, Tina said it best. GDs are strong, but they don't make you invincible. If you are on foot, learn to use other tactics to compensate. If you prefer to stick with ethereal/mounts, then don't use GDs.

 

[Tinsil]

GDs make it so the tamer is powerful, but there's not enough "skill" or mastery in a lot of situations because it's such a powerful pet, and it's easy to control.

I think most true tamers would agree with this.

 

[Uvtha]

I'll let you in on a little secret. I play a tamer mage. My main character is a tamer first, a character that relies on pets for primary offensive capabilities.

Yeah me too. In fact she's my only character (siege). I have access to a sampire on friends account, but I don't use him. I've been a tamer mage since 98.

I'll admit I don't do peerless, etc, cause I don't like the stress of soloing such things, and I'm aware that many of the peerless are too hard to solo with a tamer, but I have done everything else solo, and most of the time all I do is stand off and and heal. If the pet gets too hurt, I run a screen off, log in and out, heal it up, and go back to it no problem. I'm quite sure there are peerless and other boss level guys I could solo, I'm just too lazy to try.

90% of the situations I can just take my GD, and sick it on whatever and...stand off and heal with aids, or in danger of area attack, with Magery. My gear is pretty low level usually, usually some luck + some MR, some + int... nothing that requires anything other than regular gems and residue, never all 70's resist, rarely any resit at 70.

2 Tamers with GD should be able to take down almost anything, except the Stygian Dragon, and the Slasher of Viels, with little danger.

The odd occasions I do play the sampire, he HAS to have certain gear, and HAS to have all 70's suit, which for a lazy butt like me is usually too much trouble. Tamer is pretty much all grab and go, and I'm ready for most of the game solo.

 

[Nexus]

GDs make it so the tamer is powerful, but there's not enough "skill" or mastery in a lot of situations because it's such a powerful pet, and it's easy to control.

I think most true tamers would agree with this.

I don't....

Greater Dragons are slow, they remove the ability to have a mount for those "Oh Crap!" situations, they have **** poor damage output vs most combinations of pets like the Rune Beetle/Kitsune, or even a Pack of Frenzied Ostards.

The only thing a Greater Dragon provides is a huge meat shield, other than that they suck all the way around, the same pretty much holds true for Cu Sidhe, though they have uses in certain situations just neither one is a good "All Around" pet. Heck I'll take a Reptalon over a Greater Dragon 9 time out of 10 at least they can serve as a mount if necessary.

*** More Thoughts ***

Greater Dragons even suck on the PvP field, it's why most often you see some lamer tamer shooting them out from a GZ, they know as soon as they go out side the GZ someone will lead the Dragon off and spank them quickly. Face it, the only really suitable pet for the PvP field is the Dread Warhorse, no not the Cu Sidhe suck too, I can drop one of those in 3-4 hits you see I prefer maces and always carry a Pixie Swatter with a macro to swap out to it.

Want my opinion GD's shouldn't be tamable, Cu Sidhe should be 5 slot pets though not 4.

 

[Fink]

when tamers got the greater dragons it rely hurt them soewhat because of the followers. if youre running a greater dragon you should atleast be able to ride an ethie so you wont be killed from all the spawn at some places because you cant out run the stuff.

Addressing your points in reverse order:

You shouldn't often need to run from anything providing you're doing it right.

Any spawn can be overwhelming if not managed properly. In those cases it's not even a question of hp or vetting speed. You must accept that no pet or combination of pets will trump every situation and plan accordingly. Use strategy beyond point and click.

There's no real penalty when a pet is killed provided you have the skill to bond and resurrect it yourself. The skill loss is negligible and easily recovered by doing what you're doing, ie: hunting. It's not as if you have to stop spawning and go retrain that 0.1 on some unrewarding target before your pet is viable again. Just don't let them die too often and you won't notice any loss of effectiveness.

 

[Stupid Miner]

... having to sacrifice something to use the Greater Dragon even more helps you to appreciate its ability.

 

[Llewen]

Yeah me too. In fact she's my only character (siege). I have access to a sampire on friends account, but I don't use him. I've been a tamer mage since 98.

90% of the situations I can just take my GD, and sick it on whatever and...stand off and heal with aids, or in danger of area attack, with Magery. My gear is pretty low level usually, usually some luck + some MR, some + int... nothing that requires anything other than regular gems and residue, never all 70's resist, rarely any resit at 70.

2 Tamers with GD should be able to take down almost anything, except the Stygian Dragon, and the Slasher of Viels, with little danger.

The odd occasions I do play the sampire, he HAS to have certain gear, and HAS to have all 70's suit, which for a lazy butt like me is usually too much trouble. Tamer is pretty much all grab and go, and I'm ready for most of the game solo.

First off, you are talking about Siege, and comparing Siege with regular production shards is apples and oranges. It is much harder to put together a really high end suit on Siege, and when it comes to pvp pets are much more dominant precisely because in general you aren't fighting characters with the insane suits that are common on the regular shards.

Second, you say "2 Tamers..." Well I don't know of anything in the game that a well equipped and well played sampire can't solo, and this has included all of the event content that I am aware of. The same cannot be said of tamers, which is my whole point. There have been many events where it is simply pointless to bring a tamer because all your pets will do, including greater dragons, is die. And there is a fair bit of the high end persistent content in the game for which the same could be said.

Yes, you can bring a greater dragon to "90% of situations" and just stand back and heal while it does the work, but the most desirable items in the game don't come from that "90%". And even in that "90%" a greater dragon might be an easy choice, but on the regular production shards there are other choices which aren't much more challenging to play that will do the job more efficiently, faster, and with less danger to the character. And a tamer that just stands back and heals is a tamer that is being played inefficiently, and everything that tamer does will take longer to do than it would if you were to play your tamer intelligently, actively and skillfully.

I am not in favour of the op's suggestion, and if I had my way the ninja animal forms would take a control slot so you couldn't go into animal form while controlling five slots worth of pets. The whole point of my contribution to this thread has been to debunk some of the myths propagated by the tamer haters, and to point out that tamers in general are nowhere near the most powerful template in the game, in any context. If they want to complain about a template being "op", perhaps they should start with the templates that truly are the most powerful in the game, instead of starting with the most popular target of prejudice and misinformation, which would be tamers.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Even with Greater Dragons and Cu Sidhe the only way a Tamer will be able to out damage a Dexxer that is equipped properly in PvM is by using a full pack of Frenzied Ostards, and their Hits are so low they are almost pointless against really high end stuff, you'll spend more time rezzing them than killing things, and if the damage types vs Resists matches up right.

May want to try using a pack of hell hounds with a tamer with enough Necromancy to cast Corpse Skin, and/or have discord too.
... and (JoaT) Gift of Renewal on the tank wolf will help its survivability. Or you could switch two hounds for a Bake-Kitsune and have that tank.
Pet armor and treats would help too.
... and you can dual purpose the Corpse Skin as a buff for your pets, as long as you're fighting something that doesnt mainly do fire and poison damage.
+10 Phys, +10 Cold, -15 Fire, -15 Poison

 

[Llewen]

Pet armor and treats would help too.

Pet armor? Is there a permanent form of pet armor in the game that I don't know about or is that a quest item like the treats that has a limited duration?

 

[Stupid Miner]

Pet armor? Is there a permanent form of pet armor in the game that I don't know about or is that a quest item like the treats that has a limited duration?

Items with Special Abilities

Irresistibly Tasty Treat
This item is for pets only. It increases their stats by 15%, and damage by 10% for 10 minutes. It has a 2 hour cooldown. (Unstackable)

Vial of Armor Essence
This item is for pets only. It increases their physical resistance by 15% and their fire, cold, poison, and energy resists by 10% for 10 minutes. It has a 60 minute cooldown.

Consider pairing Armor Essence with Corpse skin for a total of +25 Physical resistance, -5 Fire resistance, +20 Cold resistance, -5 Poison resistance, and +10 Energy resistance. (Especially with a pet that already has high fire)

Granted, this isn't just a mindless buff to be used flippantly, You'll have to think carefully about which situations would benefit most, and how to get the most out of the timer. That said, it's incredibly powerful if you can use it correctly.

 

[Wenchkin]

when tamers got the greater dragons it rely hurt them soewhat because of the followers. if youre running a greater dragon you should atleast be able to ride an ethie so you wont be killed from all the spawn at some places because you cant out run the stuff.

Before asking for the game to be changed to suit you, I'd suggest you look at the options you have to solve your own problems.

You can outrun and deal with spawn while on foot. It's not just a greater dragon issue - using all 5 control slots with a combination of pets, you'll still have to deal with this when your pets are fighting. A pack of 5 means you're on foot, a bake + beetle does too. The list goes on. It's part of being a tamer - you have to learn how to look after yourself and your pets in situations like that. Or turn gargoyle or ninja to get mounted speed on foot. Either way, the devs don't need to make any changes here.

Wenchy

 

[Tinsil]

I disagree that greaters suck. They aren't as good as a mare/beetle combo, but still.. They're effective considering how EASY they are to use.

 

[Nexus]

May want to try using a pack of hell hounds with a tamer with enough Necromancy to cast Corpse Skin, and/or have discord too.
... and (JoaT) Gift of Renewal on the tank wolf will help its survivability. Or you could switch two hounds for a Bake-Kitsune and have that tank.
Pet armor and treats would help too.
... and you can dual purpose the Corpse Skin as a buff for your pets, as long as you're fighting something that doesnt mainly do fire and poison damage.
+10 Phys, +10 Cold, -15 Fire, -15 Poison

That does work, until you are against really high end mobs, which you know people like to claim as being the main point of usefulness for Greater Dragons.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I think that right now, GDs are fine as they are. No need to reduce the number of controll slots.

However, like everything in UO these days, things escalate. The SA expansion has introduced monsters that eat GDs for breakfast. The items created from imbuing have made players more resistant to GDs as well.

Eventually, if things continue to escalate, the GD will no longer be any more viable in PvM or PvP than a regular dragon is now.

At some point, the devs will have to buff the GD, lower it's slots required, or raise the number of slots players have.

No one wants to hear it, but eventually pets become obsolete just like artifacts and items.

But right now, I'd leave things as they are.

 

[Cetric]

I think it is great as is.

Besides, not seeing hoards of GD's everywhere is a great thing. Greater dragons since they were introduced have been this "easy mode" for people. You have a mob, you all kill, and you heal it, there is not much else you really need to do. Now that people are finding ways to do great things with equipment with imbuing, they can make a simple mage that can take out loads of spawn and outdamage a tamer, people who just commanded the pet around and didn't really do anything are getting upset.

 

[Storm]

I think that right now, GDs are fine as they are. No need to reduce the number of controll slots.

However, like everything in UO these days, things escalate. The SA expansion has introduced monsters that eat GDs for breakfast. The items created from imbuing have made players more resistant to GDs as well.

Eventually, if things continue to escalate, the GD will no longer be any more viable in PvM or PvP than a regular dragon is now.

At some point, the devs will have to buff the GD, lower it's slots required, or raise the number of slots players have.

No one wants to hear it, but eventually pets become obsolete just like artifacts and items.

But right now, I'd leave things as they are.

I agree 100% now how did that happen ?