Suggestion for UHall - move unwanted threads to SNR

[Old Man of UO]

Whenever a thread gets locked on UHall, it's usually because it gets overly trolled. Whenever this happens, the Trolls win.

Suggestion - move the threads to Spiels And Rants.

Some people will do whatever they can to get threads locked to keep from discussing ideas they don't like, by trolling, calling ideas stupid, and not allowing discussion of ideas however unpopular. And they win by getting the threads locked. I'm not suggesting that trolling be allowed, just suggesting allowing discussion of these ideas somewhere, if not UHall then perhaps SNR.

 

[Sauteed Onion]

I've played some obscure titles, with low populations, but spent a lot of time with UO and Lineage II (which recently went F2P so population is surging) but seems like most of the time it's the same like 15 people (in some cases less) that talk about something. And like 11 of those 15 are "notorious" trolls. Randomly though a new person enters the forums.. and is then trolled out of existence. I suppose what I'm trying to say is cinnamon rolls are tasty. Try some. Meow.

 

[kelmo]

Yes, GalenKnighthalk. Though it is not much of a limb you are out on...

 

[Old Man of UO]

... some of us --myself included-- have given up being deliberative and reasonable in the face of an idea...

-Galen's player

Just because you can troll a thread or ideas you don't agree with doesn't mean you should. You don't have to post, or even read the thread, rather just simply pass on by.

I'm only suggesting that there are better alternatives than locking threads. Thread lock is always a last resort.

 

[Sauteed Onion]

In the hopes that people who are asking for shard mergers actually read this, it may be time to just take an e-stroll through the ol' EA store and get a transfer token and perform your own kind of merger. It may get expensive if you transfer ALL your characters off the shard in question but take one over to say, Atlantic. We're brimmin with people and have active communities for pvp/pve/rp/crafting/merchanteering/and even room to plop houses down. And we're also 40% friendlier than an empty server!

 

[Madrid]

Sabotaging a thread in UOstratics has been all too easy. I've seen numerous threads I've enjoyed reading locked...many times it's the same moderator. I can't count the number of threads that moderator has locked.

All is takes is for one person to start mudslinging and we get the "this thread has gone on long enough"or "I'm closing this now".

There should be more deleting of posts and issue of warning to players who continue rather than outright locking of threads.

It's very subjective the way threads are locked. I've seen moderators in threads browsing the thread and leave only to see another moderator come in 15 minutes later and lock it with no additional posts being made.

If the moderator doesn't like the thread or disagrees with the content it seems to get locked all too quickly.

 

[Petra Fyde]

In the case of the thread just locked, that wouldn't work. We would simply be lambasted for moving the thread where the developers were unlikely to see it.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Galen and Sauteed... Please STOP trolling this thread. This thread is about a suggestion to not lock all the threads that you have been trolling, proposing an alternate solution. If you can't add to the suggestions, please don't troll and have a good day somewhere else.

 

[Sauteed Onion]

Sorry, if it seems like I'm derailing this thread, I did want to post in the earlier "locked" thread where the guy was saying he wanted a shard merger but it got locked before I could put my piece in. Any how, I hope though I'm not coming off as a troll, just trying to be helpful and honest!

 

[Old Man of UO]

In the case of the thread just locked, that wouldn't work. We would simply be lambasted for moving the thread where the developers were unlikely to see it.

Well, then it's time to take our ideas somewhere else if you are saying we can't possibly discuss certain ideas at all because OTHER people are trolling. I just don't understand that at all.

 

[Petra Fyde]

As an experiment. I will remove all posts except the OP from that thread, unlock it and move it to speils and rants. ok?

 

[Petra Fyde]

Be aware though, that the idea has been dismissed by the developers, thus is currently merely a tool to incite unrest on the board.

It will always be highly unpopular with anyone who has any interest in shard history and anyone who views their house as a creation and a home and not just an extension of their bankbox to store things in.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Galen
Just stop it. Please.

 

[kelmo]

Are you saying you are not a troll, GalenKnighthawk? I did read those posts of yours in the thread you assumed would be locked soon. Just because you believe a thread is soon to be locked by Petra or her staff does NOT give you permission to toss the Rules of Conduct (which you have agreed to abide by) out the window.

 

[kelmo]

I hope so.

 

[O'Brien]

Nah. I think the mods here do an amazing job. Especially considering most or all of them are volunteers. Especially considering the level of passion from many of the posters on this forum (myself included.)

They keep the trolling at bay as much as one could expect while allowing unpopular opinions to be voiced.

Without them keeping a close eye here and using good judgement, you'd see how quickly the trolls move in and ruin a perfectly good forum. You'd see how quickly two passionate posters can devolve a debate into a personal attack match and ruin a perfectly good forum.

Your post below and the fact that it was allowed itself attests to their cool rationality, and moderation in moderating. Really, a case could be made that criticism of moderating actions is inappropriate, even if it is allowed.

Sabotaging a thread in UOstratics has been all too easy. I've seen numerous threads I've enjoyed reading locked...many times it's the same moderator. I can't count the number of threads that moderator has locked.

All is takes is for one person to start mudslinging and we get the "this thread has gone on long enough"or "I'm closing this now".

There should be more deleting of posts and issue of warning to players who continue rather than outright locking of threads.

It's very subjective the way threads are locked. I've seen moderators in threads browsing the thread and leave only to see another moderator come in 15 minutes later and lock it with no additional posts being made.

If the moderator doesn't like the thread or disagrees with the content it seems to get locked all too quickly.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Just because you believe a thread is soon to be locked by Petra or her staff does NOT give you permission to toss the RoC

I'll take this opportunity to ask, in those instances, is it wrong to post "IBTL" or "postcount +1" in those threads? just wondered if those were trolling, in a way

 

[Cogniac]

At the other end of the spectrum (or maybe not, if you really think about it) are those that immediately start labeling people trolls simply for disagreeing with them.

 

[Meatbread]

This is the primary forum of a commerical MMO that still has tens of thousands of players, and it sees less activity than the forums of a lot of BS freeshards. It is incredibly overmoderated and largely abandoned as a result. If that uoguide forum nobody uses got a couple of dev posts, this place would shut down in a month.

 

[kelmo]

Meatbread, where do you come up with all of these fascinating facts?

 

[Tazar]

I'll take this opportunity to ask, in those instances, is it wrong to post "IBTL" or "postcount +1" in those threads? just wondered if those were trolling, in a way

As far as "IBTL" goes - yes - it is inappropriate. If you feel the thread should be locked then use the "Notify Mod" button - otherwise it is trolling and not helping.

As to the "Postcount +1" - I am of two minds on that one. It is on the list of Smileys so it can't be all bad... I can think of a few places where it could be used well - and several where it would be simple trolling.

 

[kelmo]

 

[Meatbread]

Meatbread, where do you come up with all of these fascinating facts?

No, I'm crazy, you guys are awesome. How's that WoW Stratics going? Anyone posted there this month?

 

[Raptor85]

Sabotaging a thread in UOstratics has been all too easy. I've seen numerous threads I've enjoyed reading locked...many times it's the same moderator. I can't count the number of threads that moderator has locked.

All is takes is for one person to start mudslinging and we get the "this thread has gone on long enough"or "I'm closing this now".

There should be more deleting of posts and issue of warning to players who continue rather than outright locking of threads.

It's very subjective the way threads are locked. I've seen moderators in threads browsing the thread and leave only to see another moderator come in 15 minutes later and lock it with no additional posts being made.

If the moderator doesn't like the thread or disagrees with the content it seems to get locked all too quickly.

Yes !!! Please, THIS! Every other forum I read does this, just remove obvious troll posts or split them to a different thread, any decent forum software can do that. Often the threads being trolled are talking about major issues and getting them locked and "hidden away" really sucks for those that care about the issue.

 

[kelmo]

Thanks for constructive input fellows. We appreciate your continued support of the Stratics network.

 

[hen]

Remove the trolls not the ideas. Time and time again threads are shut down, rather than trolls being removed. If the mods could just mod rather than continually forelock-tug to everything the devs come up with, ( I mean you here Petra) then we could have a much richer community. Yes I do appreciate you guys are all volunteers and give your time to do this . Thank you.

 

[kelmo]

Remove the trolls...

*thinks* This is a very appealing idea.

 

[hen]

*thinks* This is a very appealing idea.

Just do it. Ban them.

 

[Woodsman]

How about posting a sticky with a list of topics that should be discussed in SNR? It seems like most of the shard merger and classic shard posts and threads are just trolling, especially the shard merger threads. Most of the people I see pushing those know how destructive forced shard mergers would be, but they push it anyways, making me think they've moved on from UO and are just trolling.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

making me think they've moved on from UO and are just trolling.

Makes me think they're 12 yrs old. They really don't bother me much, especially since the man said it's not gonna happen. Just Duh!

 

[Woodsman]

They really don't bother me much, especially since the man said it's not gonna happen. Just Duh!

Good point.

 

[Raptor85]

How a bout just merge threads, whenever a new thread pops up about shard mergers just merge it into the older thread, lets them keep talking about it without a ton of threads on the forum. 99% of the time the people trolling the thread are the ones who WANT to see the idea shot down immediately so punishing the OP for the trolls is why a lot of UO players don't read stratics (heck...if it wasn't basicly required on siege to be able to trade/sell or if there was ANY other way to "represent" ourselves to the devs I wouldn't either)

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Swinging a ban hammer with reckless abandon is just as bad as arbitrarily locking threads. It risks turning Stratics into a monoculture where everyone says the same things, has the same opinions, and never says something sucks - or else. Since these are the unofficially official forums for UO (something no player should have control of, IMHO), the main place where the Devs deign to post, stifling dissent/opposing views could have a far, far worse impact on the community (and thus the game) than allowing them to be expressed.

This is the problem with a catch-all like Rule B. It is worded so vaguely as to be applicable to absolutely anything a Mod happens to dislike, it is especially dangerous in the ways it has been unevenly applied. The Mods don't seem to have a set of standards to follow, as one will happily post away in a thread (hot topic or not), while another might come in and gut the thread or arbitrarily lock it with an all-too-smug one liner. Mercurial Mods who believe they "know what's best for the community" are an incredibly bad thing.

Now, for topics that have been beaten into the ground and where the Devs have repeatedly given the same answer (such as shard mergers or a classic shard) a swift lock might be a solution. Moving them to the SNR forum would probably be the better choice though. Let people debate it ad nauseum.

 

[kelmo]

*chuckles* OK. Reckless abandon... Mercurial Mods... You do turn a phrase. I am dangerous and bad, I like that. When ye decide if ye want us to participate, gut the the thread or just ignore the trolls, you let me know. I will give ye a fair listen.

I will continue to make this a fair place to genuinely share ideas and discuss issues in a fair manner. I will listen to ye... I do not answer to ye. I have had my say here. I will be done adding to this conversation as it seems to irritate some.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Erm, that wan't aimed at you, Kelmo... But, way to take one for the team?

'Reckless abandon' was mainly in response to what hen said above (which was the last post in the thread at the time).

Just do it. Ban them.

The specifics of "Mercurial Mods" really can't be discussed in detail, now can it? While Mods can apparently talk about (and mock) users publicly, users can't talk about a Mod's public (and sometimes not-so-public) actions due to a silly double standard.

Also, if the Mods of a community site don't ultimately answer to "the community," then why bother with a community pretense at all?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

topics that have been beaten into the ground and where the Devs have repeatedly given the same answer (such as shard mergers ) a swift lock might be a solution.

Since it keeps coming up, and Yes, people really are that dense, and maybe they just forget
Perhaps we need a FAQ listing common arising threads/ideas that will just wind up in No Man's Land.
shard mergers - <Producer quote>
classis shard - <quote>
proof positive, don't bother, you're wasting your breath

Stop the redundancy of Mods, or Petra having to repeat themselves in responses, hell, us too! Point to the FAQ, say read 'em and weep, your thread's dead.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

* When ye decide if ye want us to participate, gut the the thread or just ignore the trolls, you let me know.

Can we just state certain things UP Front in the initial post? I know UOF has kinda a Zero Tolerance towards certain replies in the Buying/Selling section, but if I specifically want any and all silly replies, as long as reasonably relevant. I state it in the post. It's not a get out of jail free card, but it lets them know they have much more liberty than normal to say what they want in responce to my posts.

 

[Meatbread]

Stratics is renowned for being a toilet largely because it doesn't matter how dumb you are as long as you're cheerful and civil enough about it. The moderators would rather have a polite forum than one where any worthwhile discussion takes place, hence the history of quashing entire threads because someone was mean in one.

 

[claudia-fjp]

I like the idea, better than what is currently going on here. Even recently conversations that stratics staff have been involved in get deleted or locked. It seems any popular topic people really want to discuss gets quietly pushed aside. Just look at the u.hall front page. Posts from 4 days ago are still there because there is now so little discussion going on. In years past they'd all be from today and it's not just because the games population is in the toilet. If you don't let people get a word in edgewise they give up and stop talking to you.

 

[Nimuaq]

If we look at the statistics: in the last five months, 82 threads have been locked in uhall out of 1,534 threads. 16 of these threads were quite off-topic (justin bieber etc.), so the total can be reduced to 66, which is 4.3% or roughly 1 in 23 threads. An average of 70 posts were present before these threads were locked. Only 32 users started these 66 threads, with a maximum of 5 locked threads started by a single user. 13 of these threads were started to discuss factions and felucca, 8 for scripters/spammers, 4 for merging shards and 2 for classic shard.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Stratics is renowned for being a toilet largely because it doesn't matter how dumb you are as long as you're cheerful and civil enough about it. The moderators would rather have a polite forum than one where any worthwhile discussion takes place, hence the history of quashing entire threads because someone was mean in one.

The two are not mutually exclusive, you can have a worthwhile discussion and still remain polite, believe it or not.

Trolling is a difficult call to judge - because trolls never see themselves as trolls. They are 'telling it like it is' and I am all kinds of facist for preventing them from doing so.

We can, and do, clean out trolls from threads - repeatedly. How many times do you clean out the same thread and watch it fill up with more of the same before you give up and just lock it?

You insultingly call Stratics a toilet. It is my personal opinion that if we ran the board the way you would wish us to and allow people you consider to be 'dumb' to be attacked Stratics would become a cesspit.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

I only have two concerns with moderation and how the rules are applied. One is that we are not allowed to reopen a good thread that got derailed by trolls. Can someone explain why that rule is used? The second is that mods ~seem~ to have a "Do as I say,not as I do" mentality. That worked on me when I was nine. That was 30 years ago.