Stronghold Gates and Walls

[Zyon Rockler]

This screnerio is TB but should be applied to all faction strongholds in my opinion, such as all strongholds being equal with walls and gates and hopefully alot of other things.

Gates should only be useable by their faction. Enemies should not be able to control enemy base objects, such as doors, gates, draw-bridges.

Recalling into an enemy base should either place you in stat or not be allowed, kind of like it is now. Only TB should be able to recall, gate or port into their stronghold. The rune should check for TB tags and the ground marked as TB within the stronghold. So, this would change the way things are now as you can not recall into bases.

This is important for the walls and gates to have any use at all. Instead of looking at it as people recalling in, imagine they are waking up out of their beds and running to protect their strongholds.

The heavy, steel metal gates that are closed half way should trap anyone under them and slowly crush them to death (all factions).

Iron gates should be given a lifebar using golemn code but with added hits of a few thousand, giving the gate a lifebar.

The gate can then be destroyed by enemy forces by using casting or weapons, wrestling, arrows, anything that would do damage to a golemn.

The tinkers of TB can then begin to try and fix the gate before it's destroyed.

Once the gate is destroyed a timer of about 10 minutes can begin for the respawn of the gates, at which time it can be lowered again.

Siege weapons would do more damage and destroy gates faster but are not yet in the game.

 

[Berethrain]

No.

 

[Arabella]

I like the gate thing that would be very cool! I know, I know everyone will have something negative to say about it cause of the grieving by same faction players.

 

[Cardell]

This screnerio is TB but should be applied to all faction strongholds in my opinion, such as all strongholds being equal with walls and gates and hopefully alot of other things.

Gates should only be useable by their faction. Enemies should not be able to control enemy base objects, such as doors, gates, draw-bridges.

Recalling into an enemy base should either place you in stat or not be allowed, kind of like it is now. Only TB should be able to recall, gate or port into their stronghold. The rune should check for TB tags and the ground marked as TB within the stronghold. So, this would change the way things are now as you can not recall into bases.

This is important for the walls and gates to have any use at all. Instead of looking at it as people recalling in, imagine they are waking up out of their beds and running to protect their strongholds.

The heavy, steel metal gates that are closed half way should trap anyone under them and slowly crush them to death (all factions).

Iron gates should be given a lifebar using golemn code but with added hits of a few thousand, giving the gate a lifebar.

The gate can then be destroyed by enemy forces by using casting or weapons, wrestling, arrows, anything that would do damage to a golemn.

The tinkers of TB can then begin to try and fix the gate before it's destroyed.

Once the gate is destroyed a timer of about 10 minutes can begin for the respawn of the gates, at which time it can be lowered again.

Siege weapons would do more damage and destroy gates faster but are not yet in the game.

First of all I would like to point out, that this guy is the last person who should be suggesting anything for factions.

2nd. Recalling into a base isn't allowed and shouldn't be allowed. The faction runs should be scrapped.. And so should the person who thought them up.

All gates should be removed from game... all people responsible for them being in game, should be relieved of their jobs...

I don't quite understand the gate thing. As I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, the gate can be put down and the only way to get through it is to knock it down. ... Soo basically thieves can't do anything by themselves.. and since you can't shoot through the gate, you just have 10 characters looping repair on the gate while the raiding team attacks the gate and gets no where.

Your gate whole idea pretty much rips Link's (JC)idea of barracades(sp?).

I can buy barracades that cannot be ran through but can be casted over, and that can be placed and destroyed but not gates. The porchelus seriously is the a huge reason a lot of people cannot get factions started on their shards. The factions have to be low population friendly above high pop friendly. With any form of gates in bases it pretty much impossible for small guilds to do anything.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Gate hit points could easily be scaled depending on numbers of active faction members. So, this system could essentially adapt intelligently.

When this is tested, repair points vs. damage points could also be adjusted. So, if you have 2 people doing damage and 1 repairing it, then the gate would be destroyed.

This is just not about the gate, it's about the idea itself. Don't you see the realism in being able to destroy objects. For example: If a door is locked, you could now have the option to lockpick the door unlocked or simply bash the door in. The idea in its' current setting may not be the best but its' potential is great.

Every time you have a problem with something, for example: you said, You can not shoot through the gate. You have just given yourself the answer to the problem. If this is a problem, then allow people to shoot through the gate, so they can target the gate and the people on the other side.

There are many ways to accomplish this, as in the case of the way TB is now, people can get up on the walls and shoot down on people who are inside the gates but there are alot of other ways. For example: If someone is throwing potions at the gate, this is an area attack, so not only would it do damage to the gate but it would do damage to the people behind it. Earthquake is another good example of an area attack.

My idea came from wanting lifebars placed on boats so that they could be sunk during wars, this is just another version of that idea.

I would like to see realistic battles that are fun but balance always seems to take away from what can be fun. How can you condemn a system of its' ability if it's never even tried.

You are assuming what the outcome would be. If it was implemented with your vision and that's why it failed. My vision understands all of the things you are talking about. I know what would need to be changed, I know how it would need to work and because you don't, therefore, the idea is a horrible one and I can understand that.

 

[Cardell]

Gate hit points could easily be scaled depending on numbers of active faction members. So, this system could essentially adapt intelligently.

When this is tested, repair points vs. damage points could also be adjusted. So, if you have 2 people doing damage and 1 repairing it, then the gate would be destroyed.

This is just not about the gate, it's about the idea itself. Don't you see the realism in being able to destroy objects. For example: If a door is locked, you could now have the option to lockpick the door unlocked or simply bash the door in. The idea in its' current setting may not be the best but its' potential is great.

Every time you have a problem with something, for example: you said, You can not shoot through the gate. You have just given yourself the answer to the problem. If this is a problem, then allow people to shoot through the gate, so they can target the gate and the people on the other side.

There are many ways to accomplish this, as in the case of the way TB is now, people can get up on the walls and shoot down on people who are inside the gates but there are alot of other ways. For example: If someone is throwing potions at the gate, this is an area attack, so not only would it do damage to the gate but it would do damage to the people behind it. Earthquake is another good example of an area attack.

My idea came from wanting lifebars placed on boats so that they could be sunk during wars, this is just another version of that idea.

I would like to see realistic battles that are fun but balance always seems to take away from what can be fun. How can you condemn a system of its' ability if it's never even tried.

You are assuming what the outcome would be. If it was implemented with your vision and that's why it failed. My vision understands all of the things you are talking about. I know what would need to be changed, I know how it would need to work and because you don't, therefore, the idea is a horrible one and I can understand that.

Adapt intelligently? What in this ****ing game adepts intelligently? A game can only be as smart as the programmers making it, so UO is **** out of luck..

There are many ways to do a lot of things but this is a stupid idea. There are field spells for a reason.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Don't you think that fields are alittle ridiculous in the number that you can cast? I think 1 character can lay down about 25-30 fields. It seems to lose its' affect. Tactics like being able to X someone, seem boring and untactful.

I think it would be better if you could cast only 1 or maybe 2 fields at a time and that you could click on the icon for the field to pull up a small menu, maybe 3 sliders, height, width, intensity and not only that, when you cast you would use an initial amount of mana but then you would have to maintain feeding it mana as long as you held the spell.

So, by sacrificing 1 idea for the other, wouldn't we both lose out?

 

[Cardell]

Don't you think that fields are alittle ridiculous in the number that you can cast? I think 1 character can lay down about 25-30 fields. It seems to lose its' affect. Tactics like being able to X someone, seem boring and untactful.

I think it would be better if you could cast only 1 or maybe 2 fields at a time and that you could click on the icon for the field to pull up a small menu, maybe 3 sliders, height, width, intensity and not only that, when you cast you would use an initial amount of mana but then you would have to maintain feeding it mana as long as you held the spell.

So, by sacrificing 1 idea for the other, wouldn't we both lose out?

I don't think fields are ridiculous at all. You have dispel field...

Being able to cast 1 or 2 fields would make fielding completely useless.

Dude do u pvp at all? You sound like you have been playing for like 2 months. Seriously get real.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Dispel Field only dispels a part of the field. Each field is made up of an average of 5 parts. If you have 4 mages and each mage casts 30 fields, 4 x 30=120 x 5= 600, so you would have to cast dispel field 600 times to remove the fields cast by 4 people.

 

[Cardell]

Dispel Field only dispels a part of the field. Each field is made up of an average of 5 parts. If you have 4 mages and each mage casts 30 fields, 4 x 30=120 x 5= 600, so you would have to cast dispel field 600 times to remove the fields cast by 4 people.

My point was if you cast 2 fields and someone dispel fields 1 section of your field your fields are useless because u cant cast anymore.

With that being said. I've seen 4 ppl out field 15 many times.. Fields are fine, they don't need to be changed.

 

[Cadderly]

I don't see why they can't use the mechanics that faction traps use that are already in game when it comes to defences. Have a Faction tinker be able to make DEADABLE faction wood fences, metal gates, and stone walls. Same styles that would be used to build a house and same crafting menu as faction traps. Would cost silver and materials.

Each has there own ablitlity, wood fence you would be able to place say 25 as a baracade, 15 for metal fence, 10 for stone wall. All would have a max hit points to be destroyed. Say 2000 for wood, 3000 for metal and 5000 for stone. Probably as a minumum, could be a good way to create a new breed of stealth tinkers that to disaseable them much the same way remove traps currently works...

Would sure beat the hell out of collecting bag balls. Not to mention wouldn't have to worry about them decaying during the slow times during defence. I know this idea has been mentioned before but it a damn good one.

 

[Berethrain]

Dispel Field only dispels a part of the field. Each field is made up of an average of 5 parts.

You only need one part down to get through them.

Would sure beat the hell out of collecting bag balls. Not to mention wouldn't have to worry about them decaying during the slow times during defence. I know this idea has been mentioned before but it a damn good one.

I don't like this idea, it'll take away from the actual base fight.

Along with fields, Guards(if they keep them), the barracades, traps and gates (if they keep them) there would be little point to raiding.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

So now we have a cast tally of 120 with over 400 segments doing nothing. It's a good thing we are not talking about hundreds of mages.

I just think if you stand up and just imagine your a mage, now cast a field, take your hands above your head, bring your hands down level with the floor, now stay like that for as long as you can, 'cause if you move your field will drop.

That's more interesting to me than casting fields over and over. The fields should be tied into skill, so you have 120 magery vs. 100, they could fail to dispel it.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Little point in raiding? They could always place a chest that fills with silver based on points for the destruction of said gates, barracades and traps. Invasions should be like a champ spawn that builds up slow.

So you have something that starts the battle, like the crossing of territory, where a system begins to tally points, like 1 point for invading, 10 points for destroying a gate, 5 points for every Siege weapon, 20 points for every enemy kill and then once you reach a goal of maybe holding a territory for X amount of time those points are then transferred to your team.

If your going to build walls and gates, barracades and strongholds, there's definitely going to have to be a reason to go inside.

 

[Berethrain]

Little point in raiding?

You missed the point. The point is with all those things you couldn't get in even if you wanted to. You'd spend more time trying to get through fields, barricades, gates, traps, guards etc rather than fighting each other regardless of what's inside.

I'm sure as soon as someone destroyed a barricade, if these were in deed form like traps, some stealther would simply plop another one down in place.

That's fun.....

 

[Cadderly]

I'm sure as soon as someone destroyed a barricade, if these were in deed form like traps, some stealther would simply plop another one down in place.

That's fun.....

What is really fun is trying to raid your way threw a couple thousand candelbras and a couple hundred bag balls. Agreed though if they did enable a barricade system (doubtfull) there would have a be a maximum allowed placed each day... really if they used the same system for the current traps but change the name on the deeds I think it could work.

 

[Berethrain]

What is really fun is trying to raid your way threw a couple thousand candelbras and a couple hundred bag balls. Agreed though if they did enable a barricade system (doubtfull) there would have a be a maximum allowed placed each day... really if they used the same system for the current traps but change the name on the deeds I think it could work.

Do you think they'd really stop using candlebras and bagballs just because the implemented barricades? Nah, I don't think its a good idea. They'd have to get rid of a few things before I'd even consider it.

 

[Gowron]

If you're going to go the route of Gates, then you've got to create the ability for the sieging faction to use ladders, and you've got to create the ability for faction thieves to be able to use grappling hooks and ropes.

Depending on the type of gate, you may or may not be able to shoot through it. Also a problem that I've experienced is that it's not quite so easy for people on top of walls to shoot down at folks on the ground or vice versa.

Unless all these other things are taken into consideration as well, I call this thread lame.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

If your going to use pre-determined placement then you can basically lay it out and kind of balance it between strongholds. It might be possible to create a grappling hook, like Gowron said, like Rel Por, where you click on the rope and then target the Walls.

Maybe they could have places where ladders would come out of the ground, so basically you would have to stand there and once the ladder was fully erected you could climb it to the top. Depending on how many levels a stonghold is you might be able to have placement of ladders throughout and then again after a period of time, the ladders would poof and reset.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

If once you destroy a gate, a barracade, remove a ladder, in this scenerio, there would be a timer of how long it takes for these things to be able to be replaced. So, you would need tactics in the art of destroying gates, walls and barracades. At first, tactics might not work as well as they would if we had Siege weapons.

Like with a wooden barracade, maybe someone could light the barracade on fire using a torch, or a tinker might be able to remove pieces.

You might see more people throwing explodes.

There could be small doors that are placed inside of guard towers that lead through walls to other doors, that could be an alternate way in.

The idea is to attack the stronghold before engaging directly with the enemy.
For example: A guard tower could have archers shooting down through small windows, so you would first have to destroy they guard tower door, then go up the steps and kill the archer, rather than just facing an archer and killing him.

 

[Berethrain]

The idea is to attack the stronghold before engaging directly with the enemy.

In the given time frame for guarding sigils, no one wants to deal with gates, walls, and barricades on top of everything else and then fight the opposing faction. There isn't enough time to waste with this. And believe me, there probably isn't anyone who wants the corruption time to be longer than 10 hours.


Maybe if you had came up with something like cauldrons in place of traps and expanded on it I'd be for it.

 

[Lord Strahd]

I think there are bigger problems with faction wars than gates and walls at the present. Now dont get me wrong I think that this would be good food for thought if there was a working system in place, however at pressent the faction wars are lame. At least on Chessy.

There arent very many people playing them and I assume that its because of the stiff penalties and very little reward involved for participating. However I dont plan on highjacking the original posters thread. However I will try to put this in the context of this thread and how it pertains to it with a simple question.

What is the point of gates or walls on faction strongholds if no one realy uses or cares about faction play in general?

 

[Zyon Rockler]

To me the answer would be because by adding these things it would give new goals. For example: right now i'm not interested at all because when I go there, there's no one there. So, by giving us new goals and different ways to play, people like me might get interested.

The whole system the way it is now just doesn't work in my opinion. I'm not a hater of factions the way they are now and think it would be important to keep all the aspects that are in place now, just change the priority.

For example: factions right now seem to be very thief oriented. Now, I don't wanna get anyone upset but to base the whole system on being a thief just doesn't work unless you're a thief.

Let me put it this way, if I go to a stronghold right now and I don't have a thief and no one is there, what exactly is there for me to do and how are people supposed to know that i'm there?

How are you supposed to get battles that involve everyone if there's no one there? So, you need things added that allow you to do something. So, by allowing us to do damage to physical things we don't have to have people there to begin the war, we can just start attacking the stronghold.

So, maybe people will begin to guard their strongholds and not just Sigs.

Sure, the concept is different from what you have now but putting up walls and gates, in theory, should only add to factions.

 

[Lord Strahd]

Let me put it this way, if I go to a stronghold right now and I don't have a thief and no one is there, what exactly is there for me to do and how are people supposed to know that i'm there?

I agree with this ...the only reason for the sigil stealing is a way to include slealing as faction skill. However I think if I was going to go that far I believe I would add other skills sets to include other skill sets.

As far as making sence it doesnt. I would rather see things like faction npc bosses that control towns, rather than sigil corruption, timers , stealing skill.

However back on the subject... so you think that all take for you to get interested in factions would be placing or manipulating walls and gates?

They have customizable houses in game now and maybe you could tweak your house over and over. *shrug*

Flashy things and props mean nothing without a solid system to begin with, backed up with some plots and rewards and a feeling of changing the world in some meaningful way.

 

[Berethrain]

Flashy things and props mean nothing without a solid system to begin with, backed up with some plots and rewards and a feeling of changing the world in some meaningful way.

This. ^

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Flashy things and props mean nothing without a solid system to begin with, backed up with some plots and rewards and a feeling of changing the world in some meaningful way.

This. ^

I don't even think you have an arguement. I don't think you have an idea of what i'm talking about.

We have the Sig system, so if we're going to keep that we really don't need to talk about it because like I said, i'm not really interested in it.

You said something about skills, i'm trying to add skills. Look at the list alone that I have created using the meer gates and walls. Alchemy, tinker, swords, fencing, archery, macing, and the list goes on.

Barracades and strongholds would or might use stonecrafting, mining, smithing, cart, and the list goes on.

Let me say more important is, objective. I have posted other ideas such as spawning to make intense battles, probably because I have always wanted a pet bally or even more to release one onto someone else who is attacking my stronghold. I think that's a great vision, like a titan or the hand of God, creating balance.

Not just walls, gates and strongholds. This is only a small objective of one huge objective to control a stronghold/town.

This is based on basic human reaction. Are you really saying this would do nothing? That's funny to me. So, let's make a picture, you come back to your stronghold and it's on fire. All the walls knocked down, gates and doors bashed in, all your NPCs dead and your spawns, your Sig is gone and this is nothing?

Let's try a real life scenerio. You park your car where you can see it, you go inside sit down, start eating, looking out the window at your car, someone comes up and starts hitting it with a sword and starts smashing it to pieces. Your saying, you'll just sit there and do nothing? Ok, if you say so.

I don't think so. If you start ripping gates and walls down on any stronghold, you better be ready to fight and not just me but armies of men who wish to defend what they believe and stand for what they stand for, which is what those walls, gates and strongholds represent.

But, maybe I missed your whole point. After all i'm sure you know me better than I do.

 

[Berethrain]

I don't even think you have an arguement. I don't think you have an idea of what i'm talking about.

I've already presented my argument. I refuse to repeat myself simply because you don't understand.

You said something about skills, i'm trying to add skills

I mentioned nothing of skills in this thread. This simply proves you've no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

I was talking about the post you agreed with and broke it down for both of you. Seemed like you both seemed to think the same thing.

 

[Berethrain]

I was talking about the post you agreed with and broke it down for both of you. Seemed like you both seemed to think the same thing.

It didn't mention anything of skills either.

Flashy things and props mean nothing without a solid system to begin with, backed up with some plots and rewards and a feeling of changing the world in some meaningful way.

Keep digging.