Stealth Tamer...most hated tempate?

[Brisbane161]

What is the tamer template that everyone hates on SP?

Tame
Lore
Hide
Stealth
Mage
Archer
Tactics

Is this the ultimate gimp template, or are there others?

 

[N49ATV]

Its up there. Think this is what Neo runs. But one thing to note, is you generally know where they are, as they have the gdrag in tow.

 

[Freelsy]

What is the tamer template that everyone hates on SP?

Tame
Lore
Hide
Stealth
Mage
Archer
Tactics

Is this the ultimate gimp template, or are there others?

Yep thats the one right there. Cant wait to find ya on the field Tamers are not that hard to combat anymore with the recent changes in everything.

 

[Touzoko]

gah, tamer hatred will never outstrip thief hatred

 

[Sprago]

the tamer is not an a hated template the thing is most tamers are the weakest templates easily killed all it takes is one person to run detect in your team and all the tamers run for there houses like i said there weak

 

[Cruxshadow]

lol, i love thief hate!

 

[Draxous]

any template with ninja, hiding and stealth is hated on Siege... but really, most players LOVE that ****ing template because they all use it.

So the most hated templates are actually the ones players don't run.

 

[Sunchicken]

the tamer is not an a hated template the thing is most tamers are the weakest templates easily killed all it takes is one person to run detect in your team and all the tamers run for there houses like i said there weak

I disagree.
That template is not weak. The fact of the matter is the greater dragon, dread mare are to strong and can do to many hp in short amounts of time.

The lack of pvp knowlege and in game mechanics are the only reason that this template could be considered weak.

Dismount 30 hp
dragon bite 30 hp
fire breath 60hp

smoke bomb stealth
I dont know the area detect covers, but i can tell you you can get away unseen fairly fast in animal form.

You and your detector makes two players devoted to kill one person asuming they are not alone. You have multiple in your group to one char that is one macro away from hiding even if for a short amount of time. While their dragon chomps away and the rest of his/her party flag at will.

 

[WTF Everyone]

Well I guess I will chirp up here. Honestly I don’t think the stealth tamer is the issue. What frustrates people more is the naked tamer. People run the dismount tamer with no equipment and risk nothing. One night TnT ran 4 or 5 naked tamers and cleaned up pretty well. It sucks doesn’t it! Roy appreciation day was just to point out that it is crap. We did die on some blue tamers, but what did you get. Nada, and we had a few 100k in faction arties. Lol. Now there definitely are some drawbacks to the tamer in pvp; however, I run a full arti suit just like any other template. The template is

120 arch
90 tac
115 ninja
100 hide
75 stealth
110 tame
110 lore

On a side note Freelsy anytime you would like a 1v1 with my drag I will oblige. If you run in a group any template will not survive, so adding a detector will hurt any stealthier not just the tamer. Some templates are obviously better gank proof then others. I hear Kage lost his uber suit real fast. Also, I would stay on the field with a detector if the numbers were fairly even. I just would stay in form. Running on foot with a detector would get you killed. Typically when you run additional support characters like a detector you outnumber the opposition 2 to 1. At that point you are right I’ll go pvm for awhile.

My last comment is stealth is an aspect of the game deal with it. Some of us don’t have amazing pings or awesome graphics cards. Also, let’s face it everyone acknowledges some people run speed hacks. Fundamentally you should be able to outrun anyone if you chose to run and not fight, but that is not the case for a variety of reasons. That being the case stealth becomes an option to play and compete. Just because someone likes to run a template you can’t kill easily or one you don’t like to play does not make it weak. You sound like the British. What do you mean you won’t wear bright color clothing and stand in a line so we can shoot you!

 

[Bruin]

The most hated templates are simply those where the risk/reward balance is unbalanced. Most often this happens where at template can achieve the same rewards with none of the risks.

Two templates stand out in this imbalance:
1. The stealth/ninja/tamer - In this case a person can pvp by running around naked with a single bola, maybe a few bandages, and their Greater Dragon - and just bola/all kill all day long, and it's VERY successful because a Greater Dragon does insane damage. Against another player who carries 500k in equipment, even if the stealth/ninja/tamer only wins 10% of the time, that still means that the 9 times the tamer dies, they lose a bola and some bandages, worth what 100 gold? But the one time the tamer does get the other player, it's a 500k payday. Again, virtually zero risk to the tamer. Die, rez, rez pet, go at it again.

Of course the fact that a stealth/ninja/tamer can simply go to several spawn points, let their dragon do the work while they conveniently not have to pay attention to the screen adds to this. Zero work, all reward.

2. Thief. Again, a thief can run around naked, thus zero risk to losing anything, yet steal from someone and obtain rewards depending on thier level of success (say anywhere between 1k and 1 mil gold). If they fail, they die, rez, and go at it again with no loss. If they succeed, cha ching.

This is not to say all stealth/ninja/tamers or thieves operate this way. But a lot do, and that brings about a negative stigma to the rest of them.

 

[Sunchicken]

Well I guess I will chirp up here. Honestly I don’t think the stealth tamer is the issue. What frustrates people more is the naked tamer. People run the dismount tamer with no equipment and risk nothing. One night TnT ran 4 or 5 naked tamers and cleaned up pretty well. It sucks doesn’t it! Roy appreciation day was just to point out that it is crap. We did die on some blue tamers, but what did you get. Nada, and we had a few 100k in faction arties. Lol. Now there definitely are some drawbacks to the tamer in pvp; however, I run a full arti suit just like any other template. The template is

120 arch
90 tac
115 ninja
100 hide
75 stealth
110 tame
110 lore

On a side note Freelsy anytime you would like a 1v1 with my drag I will oblige. If you run in a group any template will not survive, so adding a detector will hurt any stealthier not just the tamer. Some templates are obviously better gank proof then others. I hear Kage lost his uber suit real fast. Also, I would stay on the field with a detector if the numbers were fairly even. I just would stay in form. Running on foot with a detector would get you killed. Typically when you run additional support characters like a detector you outnumber the opposition 2 to 1. At that point you are right I’ll go pvm for awhile.

My last comment is stealth is an aspect of the game deal with it. Some of us don’t have amazing pings or awesome graphics cards. Also, let’s face it everyone acknowledges some people run speed hacks. Fundamentally you should be able to outrun anyone if you chose to run and not fight, but that is not the case for a variety of reasons. That being the case stealth becomes an option to play and compete. Just because someone likes to run a template you can’t kill easily or one you don’t like to play does not make it weak. You sound like the British. What do you mean you won’t wear bright color clothing and stand in a line so we can shoot you!

I have a problem with some of this statment. You have 110 lore and taming yet can control a greater dragon. You have 75 stealth and 100 hiding and are not revealed by 120 magery and eval.

I dont have a problem with stealth or taming as a whole. I have a problem with the amount of skill points you have to devote to them and use them effectivly vs other skills.

All i ask for is passive reveal on siege.
Being as 3/4 of the population run it i dont see why it isnt here already.
Dont want to be revealed passivly invest that extra 45 skill points to stealth.

 

[Freelsy]

Well I guess I will chirp up here. Honestly I don’t think the stealth tamer is the issue. What frustrates people more is the naked tamer. People run the dismount tamer with no equipment and risk nothing. One night TnT ran 4 or 5 naked tamers and cleaned up pretty well. It sucks doesn’t it! Roy appreciation day was just to point out that it is crap. We did die on some blue tamers, but what did you get. Nada, and we had a few 100k in faction arties. Lol. Now there definitely are some drawbacks to the tamer in pvp; however, I run a full arti suit just like any other template. The template is

120 arch
90 tac
115 ninja
100 hide
75 stealth
110 tame
110 lore

On a side note Freelsy anytime you would like a 1v1 with my drag I will oblige. If you run in a group any template will not survive, so adding a detector will hurt any stealthier not just the tamer. Some templates are obviously better gank proof then others. I hear Kage lost his uber suit real fast. Also, I would stay on the field with a detector if the numbers were fairly even. I just would stay in form. Running on foot with a detector would get you killed. Typically when you run additional support characters like a detector you outnumber the opposition 2 to 1. At that point you are right I’ll go pvm for awhile.

My last comment is stealth is an aspect of the game deal with it. Some of us don’t have amazing pings or awesome graphics cards. Also, let’s face it everyone acknowledges some people run speed hacks. Fundamentally you should be able to outrun anyone if you chose to run and not fight, but that is not the case for a variety of reasons. That being the case stealth becomes an option to play and compete. Just because someone likes to run a template you can’t kill easily or one you don’t like to play does not make it weak. You sound like the British. What do you mean you won’t wear bright color clothing and stand in a line so we can shoot you!

I wasnt saying I would fight a dismount tamer 1v1...thats dumb. I honestly wont fight a tamer 1v1 because its pretty much pointless. What I was meaning is with a group of mages, or necro mages you can take out the tamer in a group quite easily. Even if you get dismounted, a group that know's how to work together will cross heal, and everything SHOULD be ok. Mana vamp, revenant...throw in there that new mysticism spell slow or whatever...lots of ways around fighting the tamers.


But this argument can also go the other way if your fighting a well versed group and a player that can run his tamer good....

 

[WTF Everyone]

Freesly I would argue with a group of mages and necro mages you can take out just about any template. The stealth tamer is no different. With a group of mages on you guys are deadly. TnT could use a few Xhealers. But we have had our wins with our archers.

 

[Sunchicken]

Yea a group of mages are hard to beat, but ive seen the RNG screw people before.

I was just saying that its not as easy to kill a stealth template as sprago made it out to be.

 

[Cruxshadow]

2. Thief. Again, a thief can run around naked, thus zero risk to losing anything, yet steal from someone and obtain rewards depending on thier level of success (say anywhere between 1k and 1 mil gold). If they fail, they die, rez, and go at it again with no loss. If they succeed, cha ching.

This is not to say all stealth/ninja/tamers or thieves operate this way. But a lot do, and that brings about a negative stigma to the rest of them.

This is true when talking about thieves around the bank. but alot of us wear lrc and whatnot when we are out on the prowl (i stopped though haha) outside of guard zone. We have to make sure we maintain a positive in-flow though, since this is really the only way we can make a living on this temp. When was the last time you saw a group of thieves working a spawn? haha, it is a pathetic sight man. haha, i remember when me and 2 other thieves were trying to kill Tybal to get into the abyss, THAT was a horrible sight haha, we ended up giving up after like an HOUR! haha *shakes head* so ya, we gotta make a living off what we snag, and if we give back something every other time we attempt at steal (or more often depending on skill level), well, we wouldnt make it very long. Also, its pretty rare that us thieves get anything back that we lose. you guys have your buyback system, but i have seen my junk armor get trashed on multiple occassions. im not upset about this or anything, i know how it goes haha. people dont like gettin robbed, so we have to keep our self preservation in mind!

 

[Sunchicken]

Hey i dont mind the theive template. You need to devote a certain amount of skill points to insure a sucess. I played a thieve pre aos and you could only steal items to certain weight levels at certain levels of stealing.
You need snoop stealth stealing hiding to be able to sneak up and pull off your heist.

Well i dont guess you have to have hiding and stealth altho it makes it easier.

 

[Draxous]

This is true when talking about thieves around the bank. but alot of us wear lrc and whatnot when we are out on the prowl (i stopped though haha) outside of guard zone. We have to make sure we maintain a positive in-flow though, since this is really the only way we can make a living on this temp. When was the last time you saw a group of thieves working a spawn? haha, it is a pathetic sight man. haha, i remember when me and 2 other thieves were trying to kill Tybal to get into the abyss, THAT was a horrible sight haha, we ended up giving up after like an HOUR! haha *shakes head*

Try running a more combat friendly temp... I used to love playing my thief on atlantic (before item insurance.) I was a thief mage snoop/steal/wrestle/eval/mage/med/resist

pretty damn effective... especially when pscrolls came out.

 

[Cruxshadow]

runnin snoop steal hiding stealth mage ninja resist right now. it works out great for me, im not to worried about combat, since i only like to engage afkers or crafter haha so shurikens and a mage wep work ok for me. as far as defense, i feel like i get away enough. im building a pvper (err pker) atm, for whenever i get that itchy trigger finger (red enkil sucks).

oh and last night i took this new char out on maiden voyage to try and get my first PK kill, haha, what a sad sight. I dont know what i was thinking, because it seems all my theif craftiness went out the window when i logged into the new guy lol. I found my first victim and attacked, smacking her down to 1/4 life only to watch her disappear into a gate. when she appeared a few mins later and i tried it again, i promptly got guard whacked... embarrasing. haha, whats even worse, she gave me all my stuff back hahaha. ugh, gonna have to do a take 2 on this one.

 

[WTF Everyone]

For the thieving thing Ru plays a very effective one on the field in combat. He is artied up too. It comes down to what you want to do and the naked **** sucks on top of the fact if I kill you, you get to keep whatever you stole. That is crap!! If you take something I should be able to kill you and get it back.

 

[Freelsy]

WTF everyone, who are you in game?

 

[Cruxshadow]

For the thieving thing Ru plays a very effective one on the field in combat. He is artied up too. It comes down to what you want to do and the naked **** sucks on top of the fact if I kill you, you get to keep whatever you stole. That is crap!! If you take something I should be able to kill you and get it back.

if i steal something from you in GZ you can have it back if i die, you dont even have to loot, i believe it even pops right back into your pack for you. if your out of GZ and i snag something, thats your fault for not taking anti thief precautions. you could always offer to rez me, then rez kill me, then you could get your item back. but if we fall for that, you deserve to have it back lol.

 

[Sprago]

I wasnt saying I would fight a dismount tamer 1v1...thats dumb. I honestly wont fight a tamer 1v1 because its pretty much pointless. What I was meaning is with a group of mages, or necro mages you can take out the tamer in a group quite easily. Even if you get dismounted, a group that know's how to work together will cross heal, and everything SHOULD be ok. Mana vamp, revenant...throw in there that new mysticism spell slow or whatever...lots of ways around fighting the tamers....

thats is what i ment when i said tamers are easy

A well orginized group can fight against tamers and take em out. Tamers cant throw cross heals so they lack heals from there guildmates (if they run more then one tamer) which makes them easy targets. now if there is a revealer amongst your guild they become real easy targets.

 

[N49ATV]

Im a tamer, but not in factions yet. But new job in Jan, so i should be on a few nights a week. I wont run tamer, ill stick to mage, even if Im not the best.

I think the biggest issue with the tamer is the fast pets. If someone wants to be on foot, let them. stealth, let them, the G-drag in tow shows where they are. I think the biggest issue the time when they say all kill (with any pet), and the pet insta-ports like 6 tiles, and bites you for over 50% health. Then as you run a fire ball hits you, then when ur 1 screen away a fs, or explode or something goes off, and down you go. Now I left the game during pub 15 (not by choice). Back then, if you were 8+ tiles away spells didn t hit you. But now, even with PvM, I can be running through an area and be off screen, and I get hit with an explode and lightning or something. Now most monsters it doesnt hurt too bad, since i was not damaged prior too.

I think if they limited fire breath to say 20-30 in PvP, and bite to say 30-40, that would work. I mean they limit SDI, and DI dont they? So why not pet damage.

I agree, dismount should be taken out of game. It serves no real purpose but for ganks, and pvp tamers. Any other template can use mounts. Look at the DS ninjas, I cant count the times I have had a red track, sneak up on me, mount, use DS, throw a pot, hit me, if I run, big damage, and they are on my arse mounted (on ethy/charger, some in wolf form), and chase me around.

If you dismount, your on foot as long as they are, so no advantage, unless ganking.

I also agree, passive detect should come to siege. But like this...
<80 hide, about 50% chance to be revealed.
100 hide, 0% for passive detect
If you have used stealth....
<75 stealth about 75% chance to get revealed
75 stealth 50% chance
100 stealth 25% chance
120 stealth 0% for passive detect.

That way if you really wanna be hidden, invest all the points. Like mages have to with eval, or warriors do with wep skill.

There are a lot of changes that can be made to the game to balance it. However with those changes will come an imbalance of another template. We will never be in perfect balance, but we can be closer for sure.

 

[Draxous]

thats is what i ment when i said tamers are easy

A well orginized group can fight against tamers and take em out. Tamers cant throw cross heals so they lack heals from there guildmates (if they run more then one tamer) which makes them easy targets. now if there is a revealer amongst your guild they become real easy targets.

That's cause the people who play tamers on this shard... don't know how to play the character they're playing.

110lore
110tame
80vet
120magery
120ninja
100hide
80stealth

mage weapon and your ****ing golden. Plenty of mana for xhealing and with a faction -mage weap suit... your pretty much a mage (defensively.)

The problem is most players who play this temp, don't play it right and/or just suck period. This is actually one of the most OP templates in Sieges history.

 

[Diablo FTW]

he is neo