It certainly is a difficult balance to strike. We try to put something in for everyone to the greatest extent we can, which means balancing for a variety of play styles, grouping dynamics, and play session lengths. It's one of the most challenging aspects of making changes to the world, luckily our players are very dedicated and let us know exactly what they do and don't like. We love constructive feedback and thank you for your input!My answer: Yes...and no.
Kill mobs over and over in the hopes of a drop. Collect the drops to turn in for bigger rewards. So ToT was definitely a grind mechanic.
BUT, people were (and still are) crazy about it. Why? Well, I can only surmise it was because many of the minor drops were useful by themselves. The turn in rewards were even better: dyes, tome, kasa, etc. The goals were "easier" to reach, which undoubtedly led more people to participate.
Blackthorn's is a long, boring, grindy slog to get the rewards most people want, thus the rampant AFKer contingent. Perhaps if GM response to their dominance wasn't complete and total apathy, more people might enjoy the spawn.
Personally, I don't enjoy the mini city areas. The drop rate is way to inconsistent and unless you go there with a coordinated group its pointless. I want the rewards, but the content simply doesn't capture *my* interest. However, I know others who do like it, so to each their own. (Just a note: more hit points =/= fun)
People want activities with goals they can achieve without an enormous investment of time, yet something they feel is an achievement worthy of note. They want activities they can do on their own AND activities they need friends for. Balancing these contradictory wants won't ever be easy
GOOD grinds:
ToT (good rewards, decent drop rate, reasonably attainable goals)
Abyss mini-champs (since the spawn has the chance to drop ingredients (though the champ loot itself needs a larger ingredient bump))
Mutant turkeys (They were amusing holiday fare, they had chances for useful loot, the MAPS were fun)
Halloween 2009 (Cute quest, awesome rewards)
Doom Gauntlet (still has useful drops after 11 years, uses the "guaranteed drop system")
Trick or Treat (People love this...though its time to cut down on some of the items)
BAD grinds:
The Awakening, Act IV/Sifting sand (Abysmal fragment drop rate, mobs that nobody really wanted to bother fighting)
The Awakening, Act II/Grave Robbers (This was a mindless grind that had NO decent rewards. The statues don't even make sounds and having loyalty to the Juka or Meer still has no benefit/meaning)
Exodus keys (spawn rate of altars being WAY too high relative to the items every character needs. Taint being needed to craft rites..)
Halloween 2009 (The bad parts were the sparkles spawning in unreachable areas, dropping the essences on the gypsies not being instanced to your character)
Echoes of the Past: Journey to the Athenaeum Isle (10! items to collect via the RNG to turn in for...a book. Mobs with way too many hit points. This one just hurt.)
Blackthorns is modeled after ToT with some obvious changes. For one thing, with imbuing and reforging, creating minor artifacts is no longer feasible. As a result we used random artifact generation based on new loot props. We also wanted to provide a permanent home for that content in the game, since conversion artifacts are very desirable...as a result the values for turn in were higher than ToT since that was limited release. Both systems use a guaranteed drop mechanic just like Doom, which is a mechanic you'll see in future content as well.