Some thoughts on Sunday runs

[Fangs McWolf]

Let me first make it clear that I am NOT criticizing how things are done at all. If I had any problems with it, I wouldn't attend, because the groups will still go even if I don't. That said...


For the VP, I had mentioned the idea of trying to balance out the loads on the elevators so that the runs have a better chance of avoiding problems. I really didn't expect any Stratics runs to have problems (not like the recent one), because after all, this is Stratics that we're talking about. None the less, the idea, thought out just some, is like this.

Loading from left side would be players who are Minglers/Hollywoods and at least 60 laff.

Loading from right side would be all other players.

The idea is that if 4 from each side load the elevator, then any non-experienced or Uber players would be grouped with those who have the ability to help them make it through.

Also, could help further if those who are Ubers and inexperienced were to be at the front of the right line, with more experienced near the back. This way as the group gets smaller, if there have to be less than 8 on any of the elevators, you will have experienced toons onboard who are more likely to be able to handle it.

Opinions?



For the CFO and CJ...

I know Trish tries to keep friends together (she's awesome like that). But in trying to mix things up a little bit, if friends were to be in groups of 2, 3 or 4 (1 player with 3 friends at most that is), then those groups of friends can be padded with either singles or with other groups. This would mean that you pick up to 3 friends that would go on the run with you, but other friends that you invite would mix in with the others. For both, you'd still line up where you need to (CFO, go to the wall for crane or stomp), but if she knows you have friends with you, letting her know how many, she might be able to put groups together to form fair elevator loads while letting friends and non friends play together.

Reason for this (other than the fact that it is almost like doing a private run) is because it makes it more fun to mix it up some. If I had 2 or 3 friends with me and the others in the group are those I haven't played with before, then it's fun. New styles of playing, the little unknown things that may happen, and if its someone who hasn't played that much, a better chance of their making it to the end.

Again, open for opinions. Just thought I'd mention it since the constant "sticking with only friends" thing is not only causing potential problems, but taking away from some of the fun as well.

 

[Trish]

CJ is cake, usually, and I don't think there needs to be any changes.

CFO: Good lord it's hard enough for me to remember who's friends with who, who came with who, who is on that crane side but I know they are weak, plus all the whispers, plus the people who show up late and make me start over... I don't want to have to remember everyone's three friends.

VP: I still want it to be Hollys on right, ubers and everyone else on left.

 

[Sally Bumblefoot]

VP: I still want it to be Hollys on right, ubers and everyone else on left.

I agree with Trish here with one possible addition. I don't know how many this will affect, but I would add a laff or gag restriction to the right side also! I am really only thinking of my son Michael but I am sure there might be others. He may be a Hollywood and totally rocks at the pie throwing but he has weak gags and less than 80 laff. He also goofs off except when he is VPing and getting merits. The factory isnt really much of a challenge and he doesnt VP enough to really learn how to fight. He is a great player but doesnt have the experience of maybe a typical hollywood. There are second toons that may be smaller than him suit wise but have stronger gags and more play experience!!

My point is that if he is loading from the right, it would be very deceptive. He doesn't have the skills or gags to support smaller toons!! If we do this, I will be telling him to load from the left even though he has the big suit!! Any thoughts on this??? Is this a unique situation?

 

[Little Sadie]

Honestly the reason I really avoid most Sunday runs is because we have to wait so long. It always ends up us waiting forever for other people only to have the ones we waited for to go on their own anyway. The little cliches that want to run together and also Trish trying to keep everyone happy really makes for a normally fast run to drag out forever. I would love just to have it split as you said by HWS on one side and everyone else on the other without worry about ANY friends sticking together. If you happen to get on with a friend, great, if not, there are other vps in life.

 

[Fangs McWolf]

CFO: Good lord it's hard enough for me to remember who's friends with who, who came with who, who is on that crane side but I know they are weak, plus all the whispers, plus the people who show up late and make me start over... I don't want to have to remember everyone's three friends.

VP: I still want it to be Hollys on right, ubers and everyone else on left.

CFO: I was just trying to think of something that would make it easier. What if you called someone, asked them to get up to 3 friends to join, and then you padded the group from there?

The other idea would be that everyone would line up on the left/right as normal, and then you just start grabbing people from the front of the line to form the groups.

The reason I think Minglers should be included is to provide better balance. But if not, then perhaps let smaller suits load first. The as the suits get bigger, it wouldn't matter if the loading ran out of HW's at that point.

P.S. I had thought it would be big suit on left and small on right (that was the original idea). I just want to make sure we're on the same page to eliminate confusion.

My point is that if he is loading from the right, it would be very deceptive. He doesn't have the skills or gags to support smaller toons!! If we do this, I will be telling him to load from the left even though he has the big suit!! Any thoughts on this??? Is this a unique situation?

I think in that situation, it would make sense for him to load with the less experienced. However, see what Trish says, she may believe he's good enough to still fit with the other HW's.

 

[Granjell]

I'm all in favor of lining up and loading by suit level, but I think that we should also consider lining up in order of arrival on site. That way, those who were on time could load the first 8 without having to wait for late arrivals, and those who have friends along could chose to wait for the second or third load.

Just an idea....

 

[Elga]

Believe it or not at the beginning of the Toontown Stratics runs, we sometimes found it hard to get eight people for all three boss runs. Those were the good ole carefree days where worrying about this stuff didn't happen. I do like the VP split idea, makes the most sense. I say CFO/CJ we just keep it the same. We could try forming groups with friends, but IDK if we could get a good turnaround timewise or if it would just jam everything up. BUT Hey I'm flexible.

 

[Trish]

To Sadie: We load and go now, right at :30. The waiting is always for CFO, making sure everyone is there, then someone coming late and messing it all up, and etc etc. The CFO is the one that friggin kills me.

To Elga: yeah lol, we sure did grow. And Eric used to manage everything. I vote Eric take it back.

To Wolfie: Whichever. Your way is ok. Biggies on left.

To Sally: In that case like Wolfie said he should load on the right like an uber would.

I think that covers everyone lol

 

[Fangs McWolf]

To Wolfie: Whichever. Your way is ok. Biggies on left.

I was only wondering because that's how I said originally, however you might have a reasoning for doing the reverse that makes more sense.

 

[Trish]

Nothing other than I'm used to standing on right. lol

 

[Elga]

Now are we talking my right or your right?

 

[Fangs McWolf]

Now are we talking my right or your right?

Well my right would be right. Your right wouldn't be my right so it would be wrong. So therefore, my right would be the right right.

 

[Stubby]

Ok, I want to figure out where a toon like Stubby would fit in. I am a 2face, but nearly maxed in gags and 107 laff. I assume I would load from the right with HW, right?

 

[loadexfa]

Ok, I want to figure out where a toon like Stubby would fit in. I am a 2face, but nearly maxed in gags and 107 laff. I assume I would load from the right with HW, right?

Yeah, I'm with Stubby on this one. Thanks to learning from the "Stratics Masters" (I bow in humble appreciation) I think I've become pretty good at the boss battles for most things (still need work on VP stunning) yet all my suits are low. Maxed gags, etc etc... I don't mind loading with the low laff group, just not sure if that makes sense when I play Huddles....

On the other hand, you're trying to create a simple workable system and I'm making it a pain in the butt.

Josh

 

[Trish]

I'm trying to keep the babies from all loading together, while at the same time not getting guff for "segregation". If anyone has a better way, let's hear it! Where does Stubby and Huddles fit in? I reckon that would be on the non-holly side. Just goes to prove this idea isn't the greatest either..

 

[loadexfa]

I'm trying to keep the babies from all loading together, while at the same time not getting guff for "segregation". If anyone has a better way, let's hear it! Where does Stubby and Huddles fit in? I reckon that would be on the non-holly side. Just goes to prove this idea isn't the greatest either..

Yeah, I'm gonna stick with the "I'm being a pain in the butt" story. I don't have a better suggestion, just saw a potential flaw.

Josh

 

[Fangs McWolf]

The idea of a high suit level (and certain laff points) on one side with others on the other side was to make it simple.

It's hard to tell what gags someone has without checking the details of everyone, one at a time. It's easy enough to click someone and see their laff, and all you have to do is look at them to see their suit level.

Ignoring the easy way to look at someone and know where they need to go, it boils down to survivability. An elevator with 8 players who are all under 40 laff and weak gags are unlikely to survive. An elevator with only 2 players like that, and 6 players who have over 70 laff and at least 3 gag tracks maxed or at the very least at level 6 (throw being one of those 3), then that group is likely to survive.


An alternative idea is simply this:
Those who have at least 70 laff, at least 3 gags that are level 6 (or maxed) and are experienced in fighting the VP, load from the 'strong player' side.

Or to reverse it, if you have less than 70 laff -or- have limited or no experience fighting the VP -or- less than 3 gag tracks that are at least a level 6, then go to the 'dependent' side for loading.

To get really simple, could just say, "If you feel confident doing a 4-toon vp, load on the strong-player side, otherwise, load from the dependent side."

 

[Flippers]

I think we need a collator for the vp.

For the CJ there is still the clique who goes in with eachother and isn't dispersed among the 2-3 loads. It's a bit of a putoff in any HQ when that's done. We're not talking about a couple friends going with eachother, but a full load of themselves each time.

I cant speak for the CFO of course.

 

[Stubby]

Im sorry, I didn't mean to open another 'pandoras box'. I have no problem getting in on either side. If it will make it easier for Trish or whoever is directing us, I will be happy to go where I am needed or in what category I am put in, makes no difference to me. I can do a four man vp, I have done it before. I just want to play and have some fun. Oh and eventually max this darn suit.

 

[Elga]

I say if you're not a HW, you go to the other side. It will save time checking all of the non-HW toons gags etc. PLUS If you are a good non-HW toon who is on the other side, well then that's a bonus for everyone, we all win.

 

[Flippers]

Glad you think so. No matter what suit I wear, I'm a Hollywood 50 IMHO. If people on Stratics don't know my competence yet... I mean Toesies solos 4 lvl bldgs now. Come on.

 

[Steveo]

On Sunday's I dont care where I load from or who I go with. I am there to have fun and if I win great if we lose well try again. I know it really stinks when you lose your level 7 gags. Sunday when I was the last one on my side to go sad I was mad. I was not mad at the fact that I went sad I was mad because one of the toons came in with only a few laugh points so he needed to be healed. Thats not fair to the other players who come in ready to fight. People should have fun playing instead of pointing fingers and getting upset. Flippers I am glad toesies can solo a 4 story so try a 5 next time. Trish does a great job at getting groups together and keeping everyone happy. It is not easy to group everyone or remember who there friends are. SO remember have fun instead of being upset because something did not go well.

 

[Trish]

Glad you think so. No matter what suit I wear, I'm a Hollywood 50 IMHO. If people on Stratics don't know my competence yet... I mean Toesies solos 4 lvl bldgs now. Come on.

Why do you insist on taking this personally? This is about the TEAM, the FAMILY and what's best for EVERYONE.

 

[Elga]

Glad you think so. No matter what suit I wear, I'm a Hollywood 50 IMHO. If people on Stratics don't know my competence yet... I mean Toesies solos 4 lvl bldgs now. Come on.

Then why does it matter what side you stand on? rolleyes:

 

[Fangs McWolf]

Im sorry, I didn't mean to open another 'pandoras box'. I have no problem getting in on either side.

You didn't do anything wrong. The whole point of this is to try to figure out the best possible way to make sure that we don't have another situation where an entire group goes sad because they weren't able to handle it. If there is an idea that seems good but then you see a potential flaw with it, then by all means mention it. Better than having that flaw blow up in our faces.

 

[Sheriff Tricky]

I remember how hard it was to organize the group when I took it over from Trish for a few weeks while she was away and then kept the job. Now that the group is as big as it is, it seems like maybe load and go is not working or making everyone happy. As we can also see, from these posts, that Wolfie's idea has mixed opinions on the matter.

I think the biggest concern we need to worry about is making sure the groupings are fair for all involved. Hence, this is why I agree with Wolfie's idea. The only other one I can think of I figured out is not workable. If we really need to, we can go back to me "organizing" the groups and checking gags, etc. The prewarning is that it will make the night EXPONENTIALLY longer because we have many more people coming to the VP then we do any other boss. Ultimately, I think we need to take Wolfie's suggestion.

 

[Trish]

It doesn't work anymore. No one stands still. No one comes on time.

 

[Granjell]

The problem is that people tend to assume that everyone is mutually looking out for everyone else. In reality, everyone seems to have their own agenda. Some toons want to play with friends, some just want to get through in a hurry, some are there just for fun, others are trying to max their suits, etc. Without agreeing to listen to someone "in authority" we will never have organized runs. Without being willing to forego the jumping around and chitchat that always seems to make it hard to figure out what's going on, we aren't going to have someone "in authority" who can count heads, form groups, etc. Just because we all look like toons, doesn't mean we need to act like schoolkids on a field trip while waiting to go on the run.

Maybe the first 8 to show up should go in, while Trish just waits in the pit and sends in the next 8, and the next 8, and at some point decides no one else is coming and comes in herself. That doesn't sound like much fun for Trish, but everyone acting like a mob hasn't been much fun for her either. I can see why "load and go" became the easiest way to get everyone on.

If we agree that HW's & Minglers go to one side and lower suits go to the other, anyone who doesn't know where to go (or feels that they cannot be pigeonholed) can wait on the stairs and we can take three from each side and two from the stairs. How's that sound?

Or ..... what do I know? I'd still be elevator-shuffling with the crowd without you guys' help!

 

[Little Sadie]

Glad you think so. No matter what suit I wear, I'm a Hollywood 50 IMHO. If people on Stratics don't know my competence yet... I mean Toesies solos 4 lvl bldgs now. Come on.

Well I have maxed all suits on Sadie but if I am bringing Feline, who is only 108, maxed in all gags and I think a two face then I will be standing on the side with the low suits. I may be able to solo 4 and 5 stories but that has nothing to do with trying to make it easier to load a vp more fairly.

 

[loadexfa]

The problem is that people tend to assume that everyone is mutually looking out for everyone else. In reality, everyone seems to have their own agenda. Some toons want to play with friends, some just want to get through in a hurry, some are there just for fun, others are trying to max their suits, etc. Without agreeing to listen to someone "in authority" we will never have organized runs. Without being willing to forego the jumping around and chitchat that always seems to make it hard to figure out what's going on, we aren't going to have someone "in authority" who can count heads, form groups, etc. Just because we all look like toons, doesn't mean we need to act like schoolkids on a field trip while waiting to go on the run.

YES!!

New quote for my signature, "I go where Master Trish sends me".

 

[Flippers]

Well I have maxed all suits on Sadie but if I am bringing Feline, who is only 108, maxed in all gags and I think a two face then I will be standing on the side with the low suits. I may be able to solo 4 and 5 stories but that has nothing to do with trying to make it easier to load a vp more fairly.

I dont see the difference between one toon and another for you. Thats the point. Where is fairly if we're trying to mix in the inexperienced (re gag choices and low gags) with experienced (high gags and experience).

"Only 108" is kinda funny to hear, but I only have one toon who made it past 120 simply because I decided to pursue more than one key on them. If one gauges skill for smusher over kertruffle (who is 108 or 109), that's VERY strange because both are big toons by all standards.

Then why does it matter what side you stand on? rolleyes:

See, that's the question put by ME in this re suit size. It's always been a poor choice of parameter. To me - and I've forever said this in debates anywhere and in blogs - the suit size is the LEAST qualified factor in gauging any toon's ability, and ability is what it is ALL about. And when everybody knows someone is a toon, then any laff gags and suit size are irrelevant because you can trust they won't pull sound to unlure skels etc etc.

You want a good parameter to divide with? Lure. Big and maxed lure on one side, lureless and those with lure up to $10 on the other. There's a realistic division in ability and who can and cannot immobilize the cogs in a team situation. Other than a freak scenario in which the game itself may put less skilled lurers on the same side, you'll find peppering the unlurables about will be more reliable.

You can bet if you did this and I decided to bring LOM to the run, I would stand on the lureless side.

 

[Fangs McWolf]

See, that's the question put by ME in this re suit size. It's always been a poor choice of parameter. To me - and I've forever said this in debates anywhere and in blogs - the suit size is the LEAST qualified factor in gauging any toon's ability, and ability is what it is ALL about. And when everybody knows someone is a toon, then any laff gags and suit size are irrelevant because you can trust they won't pull sound to unlure skels etc etc.

You keep forgetting something important. Simplicity. It's hard enough to follow the idea of suit+minimum laff on one side, everyone else on the other. Because then you click on the different people to make sure they are on the right side. Then to try to check minimum laff and gags to make sure that they should be on one side -vs- another, thats even harder.

Your idea is flawed within itself. What if someone is TU-less, and is the only 'strong toon' on one side and their lure keeps missing? The others are small and only have sound or really really weak toonup and they can't keep up with the damage being done. That side is doomed. Yes, it can happen no matter how much you try to prevent it, but your idea isn't perfect nor any better than ideas that others or myself have tossed out.

Now instead of trying to be negative and insulting about the ideas, try to do what others have done and that is to point out a very serious and overlooked drawback to an otherwise good idea.

To put requirements on which gag tracks someone must have is unfair because someone is going to fail to meet those requirements that otherwise would be a wonderful player to have as a strong toon on the run. Having minimum gag level requires is fair because then it's not saying which gags, only that they have a few strong gags that they can bring to the table to help out the team.

Now, relax some. The idea is to make it something somewhat easy that helps the team, not discriminates based on gag track choices.

 

[Elga]

Ahh Ok, I understand where you are coming from Flippers.
BUT like every idea we have, it does of course have it's flaws.
I think we just thinking about this way too much. I think we try Wolfie's way this Sunday and see how it goes. If it flops, then we will reevaluate it try to sort by another factor like mentioned. We aren't planning for the Daytona 500 or anything..haha

 

[Squeaker]

It has occured to me that the worst person to judge their own ability is themself. To keep it simple, we would have to load by suits or let Trish and others tell you which side to go on. I think that would take all night.

For example, in sb - I am maxed. I can do a four man run easily. Are those the criteria for a great player? I certainly hope not! I have many friends that humble me quite regularly. There are times I will still choke and have no clue what's going on. Then, you will see them tell me what to do as if I were brand new to toontown.

I know... I am a woman... no ego to tell me that I must be great at everything. (Sorry guys) I will always try my best and watch out for everyone around me but I will not say that I am a great player. I agree that, for simplicity, we have to load by suit. If you also want to judge by skill level, I'll have to bring on one of my smaller toons!

 

[Trish]

You know, all of this is just making things more stressfull for me.

I do thank those who brought up flaws to the system respectfully, but at this point I'd rather just stay the way we are and hope the larger toons (and not in spirit, but the larger toons on the RUN) will watch and make sure the loads pack more evenly.

 

[Fangs McWolf]

You know, all of this is just making things more stressfull for me.

I was hoping that this would make it less stressful for you, since someone might come up with an idea that would make it easier for the VP runs and easier on you for over-seeing the event.

Personally, I liked the other way of doing it, when you would pick each person per group and do a send off. Different group each time and it was fun. Only problem is when friends are there, if looks like I'm being a jerk if I don't take at least 1 or 2 friends with me (even if others are with different groups).

Still other than that, I thought it was the best because I knew you were doing your best to be fair about who was in each group.

 

[Trish]

If everyone would do as they are supposed to, we could go back to that system. But after saying "Stay." a dozen times only to see toons running around and porting to friends on the other side of the pit, I can't keep track of everyone when they can't stand still. So load and go it is, and again, big toons (in SIZE not SPIRIT) help ensure loads are more even. I'm done arguing about old suggestions, but welcome to new ones.

 

[Elga]

I think we sold most people to Wolfie's idea. I can't see abandoning it all together, it does have a lot of merit. If you know your awesome, then stand on the awesome side. If you are an uber who thinks you would need some helpage, stand on the small side. Leave it up to the toon. ANYTHING should be better than packing the vator and hoping for the best. If we just try to make sure we have big toons on it, I can see a lot of elevator shuffling. No set guidelines or whatever, but it makes a lot of sense. BUT Hey whateva I'm down whatever we do.

 

[Trish]

This week we'll stay with load & go. see new poll coming soon..

 

[Elga]

Good idea, I was gonna suggest, but wasn't sure we had the powa on these new forums. VOTE peoples!

 

[Trish]

I know we're voting but I have one more thing to say.

Tonight, we had babies loading and the big kids loading a lot more evenly, because the hollys were paying more attention to the loads (or so it seemed). Everything went smoothly for VP, everyone survived that I know of, and no one bickered complained or anything, it was just about the fun. I wanna thank everyone for being more conscious about how the loads were being built, and judging from tonight I wish I could change my vote to "stay as we are with load and go".

 

[Little Sadie]

It did go nicely. On our load there was a nice mix of laff and gags. No problems at all.

 

[Pinky Pepperpow]

First I want to say to Trish....OMG, you amaze me that you have the patience to organize this. I was stressing just watching you count. Kudo's and humble courtsey to ya girl.

I like the idea of Hollywood's only on left (no ubers, etc) and picking4 from each side to balance the load.

After all, correct me if i'm mistaken, but I thought the idea of stratics runs was to primarily help the lower toons so that they can get on an elevator without any hassles? Is that right?

Although I have my friends that I love to battle with, we are friends outside of the Sunday runs and I think (speaking for myself) that we would survive not all being together in one VP run on one night of the week.

I get enjoyment out of helping the younger toons. I remember when I was little and big toons helped me out. If it weren't for their kindness I don't think I'd still be playing.

As for the CJ & CFO,I think that works out pretty well the way it is.

Hugs,

Judy

 

[Trish]

Well the original intent was for Stratics users to all get together, play together and have fun together. And there was a day where one.. ONE toon we didn't know would show and we'd be like "who was that?" and the next day they would introduce themselves as a lurker. LOL.... those days are long gone. I don't know half the toons there or recognize them from Stratics. But we move districts and they follow, so I reckon they're just shy. Anyway I'm digressing.. We've had to pretty much change our "reason for Sunday" to fit the group over the last year or so because of tremendous growth.

 

[Fangs McWolf]

We've had to pretty much change our "reason for Sunday" to fit the group over the last year or so because of tremendous growth.

They follow where the good runs are at.

 

[Elga]

Last night did work out at the VP very well. I think the separation just adds to the security that it will work almost every week.

The crazy thing about that CFO where I ended up killing myself was such an embarrasment though! Not because I died, but because somehow a little yellow goon was still running around. I was down to one laff, and that little yellow goon got me. Getting killed by a big red goon is understandable, but sheesh a baby yellow one. Premature birth of a red goon maybe? IDK but the CFO needs to get that checked out..haha

The CJ went swell as always and the CFO revenge run turned out good. Restock Sound, which was almost worth dieing IMO!

 

[Holocog]

Sorry lol I was trying to throw safes on the goons instead of at the CFO. Yes the VP Cj and revenge run after were fun! If you jump into a huddle of 5 or 6 goons you can go down FAST! Does anyone know how the CFO keeps 30+ cogs,skelecogs,and goons in there?? That Confuses me lol.


Cfo------Us

 

[Elga]

He has a meeting beforehand and says:

"Get in my Belly!"

 

[Fangs McWolf]

Does anyone know how the CFO keeps 30+ cogs,skelecogs,and goons in there?? That Confuses me lol.

Transformers, more than meets the eye.

Or how about, they're compacted while inside of him, and then when they emerge, they are returned to normal shape and through an energize process, they expand/grow, which is what you see when they are coming out during the battle. As for the goons, stock pile of goon parts (which take up less room than the constructed goons), which are then assembled together inside before they emerge. Which would explain why sometimes, there is a delay before they come out.

He has a meeting beforehand and says:

"Get in my Belly!"

More like, "Get in mah belleh!"