So let's not reduce the silve cost of faction arties and keep it expensive. rolleyes:
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So Kat
- Thread starter Vaelix
- Start date
- Watchers 1
When you learn to be honest rather than manipulative, I'll stop insulting you for insulting me.
No emotions involved. One way or another I enjoy my time in UO.
cya
M
MikeD
Guest
Hot dog I must really get under your skin. Never had to face the truth before... have you?
M
MerchantAtHome
Guest
What I meant was that Vaelix already made this point and we already discussed it. If you want to go back and read that, it would help you. Or you can continue to not know what you're talking about. You are good at that.
BTW have you seen this?
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/limenats/blackrain.jpg
Heres an example for ya. Did it all the time on production (while I was there)
Regular bok bok template
120 swords
120 bushy
120 ninja
100 hiding
95 meditation
90 tactics
75 stealth
Run some weapons like a bokuto with HLD/lightning and a warfork with HLD SSI fireball
You see a mage, attack. Give chase, LS LS a few times as to not give away your immediate combo tactics and to get the HLD on them. Then throw a shurken/dart at them. Get them with the poison, immediately follow up with a bleed attack. At this point, after LS'ing a couple times you're not going to scare the mage enough to make them go on the defense and heal. Now once down maybe 20-30 hit points, throw your darts/bleed attacks and that immediately puts them on the defense and trying to heal. With the disruptions from bleed/poison you can then nerve strike/LS and then Deathstrike...Once you deathstrike, most decent mages will sit still so they dont take the 50 damage. Once you see them sit still immediately hit your conflag potion (target relative location macro) and they'lll be forced to move or take a decent amount of damage from the conflag.
After all this, you can pretty much waiste a mage with those steps. Of course its not going to go exactly to plan. But the most important part of fighting a mage from a dexxer perspective is keeping the disruptions up...aka the bleed and poison. Bleed is killer to a mage. Maybe even use a weapon that has mortal strike.
This is normal damage output
LS - 5-9 w/additional lightning damage of 11ish (crit could be 30 damage)
LS - same as above (could be 30)
Poison/bleed - self explanatory
Nervestrike - weapon damage 5-9, special damage 20-25 plus spell damage plus paralyze
LS - same as above (could be 30)
DS - 5-9 (10 additional damage if they don't move...45-60 if they do)
conflag pot - 4-5 damage per second....
You can see how the damage adds up real quick!!!
In the end if you can't kill the person. You should definitely be able to hold your own against any mage (unless they're a necro/spellweave) Those waffles are just hard to kill on a dexxer temp...but they can't kill you either
M
MerchantAtHome
Guest
So you based a whole template around special moves without resisting spells? Good luck with that on Siege where everyone knows your template better than you do.Heres an example for ya. Did it all the time on production (while I was there)
Regular bok bok template
120 swords
120 bushy
120 ninja
100 hiding
95 meditation
90 tactics
75 stealth
Run some weapons like a bokuto with HLD/lightning and a warfork with HLD SSI fireball
You see a mage, attack. Give chase, LS LS a few times as to not give away your immediate combo tactics and to get the HLD on them. Then throw a shurken/dart at them. Get them with the poison, immediately follow up with a bleed attack. At this point, after LS'ing a couple times you're not going to scare the mage enough to make them go on the defense and heal. Now once down maybe 20-30 hit points, throw your darts/bleed attacks and that immediately puts them on the defense and trying to heal. With the disruptions from bleed/poison you can then nerve strike/LS and then Deathstrike...Once you deathstrike, most decent mages will sit still so they dont take the 50 damage. Once you see them sit still immediately hit your conflag potion (target relative location macro) and they'lll be forced to move or take a decent amount of damage from the conflag.
After all this, you can pretty much waiste a mage with those steps. Of course its not going to go exactly to plan. But the most important part of fighting a mage from a dexxer perspective is keeping the disruptions up...aka the bleed and poison. Bleed is killer to a mage. Maybe even use a weapon that has mortal strike.
This is normal damage output
LS - 5-9 w/additional lightning damage of 11ish (crit could be 30 damage)
LS - same as above (could be 30)
Poison/bleed - self explanatory
Nervestrike - weapon damage 5-9, special damage 20-25 plus spell damage plus paralyze
LS - same as above (could be 30)
DS - 5-9 (10 additional damage if they don't move...45-60 if they do)
conflag pot - 4-5 damage per second....
You can see how the damage adds up real quick!!!
In the end if you can't kill the person. You should definitely be able to hold your own against any mage (unless they're a necro/spellweave) Those waffles are just hard to kill on a dexxer temp...but they can't kill you either
lol. Ok. Lets see...I ran that template for a couple years here and pwnd the **** out of everyone..Mages/Dexxers/Tamers
160 + mana, a mana vamp leaves me around 60 mana left. With the near gm meditation plus 8-10 mr (usually) I have PLENTY of mana my friend.
Move along please...
V
Vaelix
Guest
Im guessing you arn't aware of this..
The *Only* Reason people run 70 DCI is because Hit lower defense lowers DCI by -25%.
So With 70% DCI, Mages have *Effective* 45% DCI, The 70% Is only there to make you Hit Lower Defense Immune.
70% - 25% = 45%.
As i said, With 70% DCI, we have 45% DCI while being HLD Immune. Therefore its.
45% HCI Vs 45% DCI, 120 Wep Skill Vs 120 Wep Skill..
Aka 50 / 50
To put it simply, DCI doesnt go above 45%, the 70% Is only there so when HLD Goes off and take -25%, the Extra DCI, makes it so you Stay at 45%.
90% of siege PvPers are actually really bad at the game.
Last time I played it was evermore running from me on sight (what's new there?), failing 3v1 dismount gdrag ganks, ghengis kahn running into his house, etc...
You guys actually made it a point to schedule your own "Newb" fights because the rest of us are "so good."
Even before faction artifacts, you guys NEVER stood a chance against skilled PvPers, even those who played multiple templates - both mage and dexxer. That was proven repeatedly for YEARS.
If you're planning on doing Armor Ignores and nothing else to kill a chugging healing mage, and using that as your evidence that HLD proofing is OP, you're just proving that you can't play. There are other things you can do than JUST melee hits as a dexxer - just like there are other things you can do as a mage than just cast.
Freelsy made a good point, and even told you how to kill a mage on the most popular dexxer template on SP, which happens to also be non-casting and more dependent on landing your 50% chance to hit.
Fact of the matter is, on prodo, most dexxers STOMP mages 1v1. What is that saying when faction gear and imbuing gives you the same suits AKA the same scenario?
I know--its because you're horrid.
It's like this on tons of shards - there naturally are MORE people that are either uneducated about the game, or just suck compared to the more talented/knowledgable people. That's why these forum wars erupt.
I also think it's hilarious that you guys are arguing about silver prices when the most noticeable BUG (especially if you play prodo) is that with even 1 punkte you can wear any faction artifact. The ranking system doesn't even ****ing exist on siege. Not every noob that joins factions is supposed to be able to wear rank 10 arties. Reduce the silver cost to normal and implement that ranking system, THERE is your balance.
Last time I played it was evermore running from me on sight (what's new there?), failing 3v1 dismount gdrag ganks, ghengis kahn running into his house, etc...
You guys actually made it a point to schedule your own "Newb" fights because the rest of us are "so good."
Even before faction artifacts, you guys NEVER stood a chance against skilled PvPers, even those who played multiple templates - both mage and dexxer. That was proven repeatedly for YEARS.
If you're planning on doing Armor Ignores and nothing else to kill a chugging healing mage, and using that as your evidence that HLD proofing is OP, you're just proving that you can't play. There are other things you can do than JUST melee hits as a dexxer - just like there are other things you can do as a mage than just cast.
Freelsy made a good point, and even told you how to kill a mage on the most popular dexxer template on SP, which happens to also be non-casting and more dependent on landing your 50% chance to hit.
Fact of the matter is, on prodo, most dexxers STOMP mages 1v1. What is that saying when faction gear and imbuing gives you the same suits AKA the same scenario?
I know--its because you're horrid.
It's like this on tons of shards - there naturally are MORE people that are either uneducated about the game, or just suck compared to the more talented/knowledgable people. That's why these forum wars erupt.
I also think it's hilarious that you guys are arguing about silver prices when the most noticeable BUG (especially if you play prodo) is that with even 1 punkte you can wear any faction artifact. The ranking system doesn't even ****ing exist on siege. Not every noob that joins factions is supposed to be able to wear rank 10 arties. Reduce the silver cost to normal and implement that ranking system, THERE is your balance.
M
MoonglowMerchant
Guest
No actually, you snuck up on people and if they didn't know you were there, you had pretty good luck. In group fights, you got mana vamped, hid, got mana vamped, hid, over and over and over.
M
MoonglowMerchant
Guest
In my experience, the thing that made the most successful PvPer's was numbers. When TnT had the numbers, they were the most successful. When JSV had the numbers they were the most successful. Hell, when VmP had the numbers, they were the most successful and there were some BAD PvPer's in VmP.
You were pretty good too but a lot of the things you did to be "good" were things a lot of players refused to do. So, you weren't "good" by skill but more by an "I don't give a $#@% attitude".
I forgive you, you started playing UO at what 12?
No not at all sir. If I got mana vamped...like I posted before I would continue to fight. Why? Because I had plenty of mana left to LS, to nerve strike and bleed. and while I'm running around chasing this mage, guess what is happening? That's right, my mana is regenerating at a real fast rate.
Also, you're not being very productive to the team if you just hide, get mana vamped, hide, get mana vamped. Those are probably the kind of characters you're used to running with. But those are not the actions of a character represented in the guild I'm currently in, or have every been with. Besides, I can still throw shurikens and with my strong defense ability I can take some heat off another guildy in case he's in trouble. So many more aspects to the fight than just damage dealing.
M
MoonglowMerchant
Guest
You're Astynax right? Umm, you didn't throw shurikens or do anything once you got vamped. I fought you plenty. You did well against dexxers, and on Siege you benefitted from the gimpness known as hide/stealth but once you got vamped, you were done.
Let me add, I'm not talking about one mana vamp. When we fought your group, I'd find you and mana vamp you repeatedly. That's what I'm talking about.
Right....and how long has that been home slice? I haven't fought you for over a year. I've learned a lot since then.
Learned even more when I went to Atlantic and fought those super mages and super dexxers.
obviously by the way I talk I know what I'm doing...and why would I go against what I'm saying? But like I said, its been awhile since we've battled it out. Come on back and lets have a lil get together
Learned even more when I went to Atlantic and fought those super mages and super dexxers.
obviously by the way I talk I know what I'm doing...and why would I go against what I'm saying? But like I said, its been awhile since we've battled it out. Come on back and lets have a lil get together
But my main point when fighting a mage is keeping the disrupt on. You can mana vamp me all you want but as long as you're not doing anything else...I can still stand right beside you and LS you...that takes what? 2-4 mana with some LMC items on. That is regenerated very quickly. Although, if you just keep trying to mana vamp me then we'll get no where in the fight until I get some good RNG hits on ya and you run away
How do you mean? The only thing that I can think of that I did as opposed to others who "refused to" were that I was willing to learn and apply. So essentially I was one of the few who had that "I actually do give a ****" attitude.
You played UO longer than I did. I've been playing about 5.5 years, with a lot of breaks.
How about the silver thing though? It's funny that no one mentioned that after all this debate.
B
Black magick
Guest
WAHHHH! faction arties only help mages! Dexxers can't get 70 dci/70 hci 100 dmi 40 lmc and all 70s using faction arties. It goes both ways. Btw Vortex, the migration from being a mage started when ML came out, maybe before, but I had just gotten here a couple months before then.
M
MoonglowMerchant
Guest
I would never fight your template one on one. Not the way I equip. With 70 DCI and parry, that would even the odds quite a bit.But my main point when fighting a mage is keeping the disrupt on. You can mana vamp me all you want but as long as you're not doing anything else...I can still stand right beside you and LS you...that takes what? 2-4 mana with some LMC items on. That is regenerated very quickly. Although, if you just keep trying to mana vamp me then we'll get no where in the fight until I get some good RNG hits on ya and you run away
I haven't PvP'ed solo for a long time though. There was a great time on Siege where you could fight people one on one and they weren't just stalling while their crew rolled in. That time is long gone.
When I fought in recent years, it was almost always in a group. In a group, where there is at least one mage, temps without resist are much less effective. Stealth is still ridiculous but at least mana vamp can take the offense out of a lot of temps.
I'm not trying to insult you. You played that template well. It does have it's limitations though.
You are correct, I was not aware of that. Thanks.
S
Sunchicken
Guest
I agree with this 100%
The game is now so dexxer friendly its obsurd. Its not that the mages are overpowered with the faction items. Its that the dexxers on this shard refuse to progress with the game and learn the mechanics.
Faction artifacts or not a dexxer should slay the **** out of a mage.
Mages need a boost in my opinion. Now we have mystic mages which seems to be a tad op, but what was the last thing done to help a pure mage.
i mean with balanced bows and 50 ep pots and all the hpi avalible and the ability to heal on the fly a pure mage has no chance at killing anyone unless they dont carry a abusable trapped crate and can be e fielded...
F
Førsaken
Guest
I'd like to re-instate these ideas:
-Remove Hero/Evil Faction Hue system. *If they want to keep it in, great, but allow anyone to wear non-faction hued items.
-Remove player bound faction arties.
-Re-implement Cursed Arties.
-Increase drop rates on loot significantly.
-Fix the luck system, it's broken badly.
-If all this could be done, then, drop Faction Arty cost.
If all this was done, here's the end result:
You'd have the average PvPers and non-faction PvPers able to suit up easier, enjoying their game play more due to not having to worry about replacing suits or losing expensive pixels. Lets face it, even if you can afford to lose items, it still sucks. With these changes, comes more active PvMers, PKers would have reason to scout hot spots again, non-faction players/guilds would be able to better defend themselves if raided or found farming.
Yes, the Faction system is severely broke, hence the DEVS determination to implement a completely new system and completely new Factions. But, you can't expect to be given the same benefits as factions via faction arties without willing to take on the risks and/penalties when dying.
But, all the arguments insisting on why not remove faction arties are getting ridiculous. I only say that because you can't expect to move backwards-There are too many new skills, template variations, expansions, and well, ITEMS, to move backwards.
I believe what I stated are realistic ideas to any and all players. Also note that I feel other changes should be happening at the same time, before they up and reduce faction cost. But, at least faction cost for Siege Perilous got a reply from one of the DEVS, so why couldn't we look at that as a positive thing? A 'crossing one thing off the to-do/get list'?
Just my .02.
-Remove Hero/Evil Faction Hue system. *If they want to keep it in, great, but allow anyone to wear non-faction hued items.
-Remove player bound faction arties.
-Re-implement Cursed Arties.
-Increase drop rates on loot significantly.
-Fix the luck system, it's broken badly.
-If all this could be done, then, drop Faction Arty cost.
If all this was done, here's the end result:
You'd have the average PvPers and non-faction PvPers able to suit up easier, enjoying their game play more due to not having to worry about replacing suits or losing expensive pixels. Lets face it, even if you can afford to lose items, it still sucks. With these changes, comes more active PvMers, PKers would have reason to scout hot spots again, non-faction players/guilds would be able to better defend themselves if raided or found farming.
Yes, the Faction system is severely broke, hence the DEVS determination to implement a completely new system and completely new Factions. But, you can't expect to be given the same benefits as factions via faction arties without willing to take on the risks and/penalties when dying.
But, all the arguments insisting on why not remove faction arties are getting ridiculous. I only say that because you can't expect to move backwards-There are too many new skills, template variations, expansions, and well, ITEMS, to move backwards.
I believe what I stated are realistic ideas to any and all players. Also note that I feel other changes should be happening at the same time, before they up and reduce faction cost. But, at least faction cost for Siege Perilous got a reply from one of the DEVS, so why couldn't we look at that as a positive thing? A 'crossing one thing off the to-do/get list'?
Just my .02.
I think sakie just became a man...congrats...
F
Førsaken
Guest
Fixed for you. =)I think sakie just became my favorite man...congrats...
Why is it that the words 'fixed for you' appearing in the 'live feed' link and posted by ANYONE on this board triggers a response of 'oh hell, now what?' in my brain?
/signed
You love us and you know it.
You better wine and dine me first...